MVP extender quite nice

[MrD]

I picked up an MVP extender and I will admit it is quite nice. The caveat is make sure you plug it into a wired network!

Previously I was using a HTPC connected to a hub, connected to a stinksys wireless AP in bridge mode. That worked *ok* for the sage tv client. Using the MVP in this configuration was stutter city!

My biggest disappointment is with the DVD situation (i.e. it is not supported).

Since the decoders are all on the server PC, I would assume there is a solution where the DVD vobs are decoded on the server and streamed to the MVP.

This should be able to be accomplished via a direct show graph where the MPEG output pins connect to a streaming server instead of a video renderer. Sound could also be downmixed to 2 channel stereo (of course if the MVP had S/PDIF output this would be a moot point).

Hell, I'd pay more for the license to be able to stream DVD.

DVD support would make the MVP the ultimate solution.

-MrD

[SHS]

DVD Support will not any time soon if ever

[MrD]

Obviously not in the hardware... but there is a software solution, whether poeple choose to implement it or not.

Where there is a will there is a way.

For example I could feed theatre tek video output to an hauppauge capture card.

-MrD

[malbec]

DVD Support will not any time soon if ever

Hmmm, can you comment on the following then?

I was hoping the rumors around possible transcoding would result in AC3 being transcoded over the MVP. I thought this would address the DVD issue, but I take it from your comment this is either not possible or something that will never be offered for some other reason.

If so, am I correctly assuming the only way to have DVD support then is to convert the DVDs to mpeg/divx/xvid files?

The reason I ask is that I finally got my MVPs and SageTV server setup. I would like to throw all of the DVDs and their cases in the basement to clean up the family room some by ripping all of them to the hard drive. However, Iwas waiting to see where things go before spending the time hoping all I needed to do was "rip" and not "rip and convert."

Thanks

[Para]

DVD Support will not any time soon if ever
Don't say that please! You are breakin my heart! That is the one thing I was dying for. Everyone talks about DivX transcoding on the server then streaming to the MVP *but* all I want is to be able to to stream my ripped DVDs. Surely it is possible without reencoding my DVDs to DivX and waiting for that to be supported in Sage. I believe the chip set is capable and I had wondered if the Graphedit route would work. Don't give up Sage! I want my MVP (with DVD)!:)

[MrD]

DVD Support will not any time soon if ever

Network DVD players are out there. It's only a matter of time before they are mainstream. Frey would be wise to support it.

-MrD

[SHS]

Short ver there no License for AC3 aka Dolby Digital for MediaMVP nor are any legal code to make the MediaMVP work with Dolby Digital Downmixed to 2 channels and lack of hardware for Digital output "Coax or Toslink" and yes there are other that support it but you also paid out the nose for thoses device.
As for transcoding it pettey much the same problem as above no legal License to do which would end cost us the user a pettey penny becuase of Dolby Laboratories Inc.
Did all know that all Hardware MPEG Encoder can do DD 2.0 in hardware but none have enable to do so and very few that do cost pettey penny.

[MrD]

So a $5 dollar part is preventing AC3 streaming??? I've seen hardware mods to add the TOSLink to the MVP...

Anyhoo...

Here's how to do it... I did it last night. However, you sacrifice menus... who cares, right?

1) Get the Womble MPEG2 editor.
2) Load a VOB(s) into the timeline
3) Click export
4) Choose the audio panel
5) Choose downmix to 2-channel stereo
6) Save
7) Import new file into media library
8) Watch and enjoy.

Basically this process exports the MPEG2 video untouched and downmixes the audio into stereo.

The quality for video is equal to the DVD quality (it was not re-encoded), the sound quality is as good as you can get from the MVP analog outs.

The only caveat is the Womble editor license is $99, but there are most likely cheaper alternatives.

-MrD

[MrApollinax]

So a $5 dollar part is preventing AC3 streaming??? I've seen hardware mods to add the TOSLink to the MVP...

It's not a $5 part its licencing for AC3 DD. The MPEG encoder can handle it but the MVP does not have an authorized licence to implement DD/AC3. MPEG2 licencing is much easier to do since it doesn't have an "implementation" licence just a royalty fee on top of the one time purchace for the "system" level licence. If you want to Legally use AC3 in a consumer product you have to purchace from dolby an implementation licence and a system licence + royalties per quater which is multiplied by a "cost of living" factor. It's a headache as well as a bill that will have to paid by SageTV since I don't think there are any built-in decoders that would cover the licencing for AC3 in the MVP.

So the really short answer is: It's a money thing preventing AC3 streaming.


Anyhoo...

Here's how to do it... I did it last night. However, you sacrifice menus... who cares, right?

1) Get the Womble MPEG2 editor.
2) Load a VOB(s) into the timeline
3) Click export
4) Choose the audio panel
5) Choose downmix to 2-channel stereo
6) Save
7) Import new file into media library
8) Watch and enjoy.

Basically this process exports the MPEG2 video untouched and downmixes the audio into stereo.

The quality for video is equal to the DVD quality (it was not re-encoded), the sound quality is as good as you can get from the MVP analog outs.

The only caveat is the Womble editor license is $99, but there are most likely cheaper alternatives.

-MrD

This loooks good! Are you just ripping the DVD to a single large VOB and then doing an audio downmix of the AC3 channel? I'll have to try that out. Maybe somewhere on videohelp.com there is a guide doing something similar to what you are doing with VirtualDub. Doom9 has some stuff but I don't have the time to check it out right now:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/audio-guides.htm

[MrD]

It's not a $5 part its licencing for AC3 DD. The MPEG encoder can handle it but the MVP does not have an authorized licence to implement DD/AC3. MPEG2 licencing is much easier to do since it doesn't have an "implementation" licence just a royalty fee on top of the one time purchace for the "system" level licence. If you want to Legally use AC3 in a consumer product you have to purchace from dolby an implementation licence and a system licence + royalties per quater which is multiplied by a "cost of living" factor. It's a headache as well as a bill that will have to paid by SageTV since I don't think there are any built-in decoders that would cover the licencing for AC3 in the MVP.

So the really short answer is: It's a money thing preventing AC3 streaming.



AC3 S/PDIF pass through? That's all I want/need. I don't expect the extender to *decode* the stream, I have plenty of high end equipment to do that. I just need to get the data to the decoder.

Does the same license issue exist for AC3 pass through? This is where I was going with the $5 part bit. TOSLink connectors are relatively cheap, plus I have some :)


This loooks good! Are you just ripping the DVD to a single large VOB and then doing an audio downmix of the AC3 channel? I'll have to try that out. Maybe somewhere on videohelp.com there is a guide doing something similar to what you are doing with VirtualDub. Doom9 has some stuff but I don't have the time to check it out right now:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/audio-guides.htm

I simply experimented last night. I used my rip of a simpsons CD and used a VOB (out of many) that contained a single episode.

I will try a single large VOB, but I am not sure that would work unless you rip out the menus and leave only the "content". Perhaps DVD shrink helps here, but DVD shrink re-encodes the MPEG2 video (unless you can disable it).

I have used VirtualDUB before, but the learning curve was too much for me, to get acceptable results :).

[MrD]

It's not a $5 part its licencing for AC3 DD. The MPEG encoder can handle it but the MVP does not have an authorized licence to implement DD/AC3. MPEG2 licencing is much easier to do since it doesn't have an "implementation" licence just a royalty fee on top of the one time purchace for the "system" level licence. If you want to Legally use AC3 in a consumer product you have to purchace from dolby an implementation licence and a system licence + royalties per quater which is multiplied by a "cost of living" factor. It's a headache as well as a bill that will have to paid by SageTV since I don't think there are any built-in decoders that would cover the licencing for AC3 in the MVP.

So the really short answer is: It's a money thing preventing AC3 streaming.


Also can't downmixing of the audio stream by done on the server? The server has *legal* decoders installed. Hence the MVP would never see a AC3 stream.

[MrApollinax]

I see where you were going with your comments now. I think then there is a trade off in the ways to do this. You can do it locally on the server but use up cycles on your PC. Or you can do it at the extender point thus off loading the burden on the server. The way I would prefer is to have the extender do it but for you all you want is transparent passthrough of the stream while letting the server handle the load. It seems that we were looking at the situation from different angles :) I'm not sure if the licencing issue will apply to the way you are looking to do it. Dolby has some really specfic (ie strange) ways to licence their stuff. If the AC3 has been already decoded and was passed on to the MVP as PCM data to output on your TOSLink mod then i guess it would okay since the MVP technically has done anything with the AC3 channel.

[BobPhoenix]

I see where you were going with your comments now. I think then there is a trade off in the ways to do this. You can do it locally on the server but use up cycles on your PC. Or you can do it at the extender point thus off loading the burden on the server. The way I would prefer is to have the extender do it but for you all you want is transparent passthrough of the stream while letting the server handle the load. It seems that we were looking at the situation from different angles :) I'm not sure if the licencing issue will apply to the way you are looking to do it. Dolby has some really specfic (ie strange) ways to licence their stuff. If the AC3 has been already decoded and was passed on to the MVP as PCM data to output on your TOSLink mod then i guess it would okay since the MVP technically has done anything with the AC3 channel.
Actually I think he means passing the AC3 signal to the MVP without decoding it and the MVP passes it without decoding it to an A/V reciever that decodes the signal and sends it to a 5.1 surround sound speaker system. I think he is talking about this hardware mod to the MVP http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=7901.0

BobP.

[MrD]

Actually I think he means passing the AC3 signal to the MVP without decoding it and the MVP passes it without decoding it to an A/V reciever that decodes the signal and sends it to a 5.1 surround sound speaker system. I think he is talking about this hardware mod to the MVP http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=7901.0

BobP.

dead on :clap:

[SHS]

Thank Bob

[malbec]

Well, newbie back again...

1) Is it legal to buy a modified MVP from someone who knows how to modify it?
2) Even if it is modified, I assume Sage would still need to tweak their software to make it work, correct?
3) I certainly don't want to hijack this thread, but I have researched this a number of places elsewhere. Nonetheless, I see Womble was mentioned, so...
Let's say I go the route a non-techie like me can take and give up the menus by converting the ripped DVDs. If I am doing so, sure seems like I might as well convert them to DivX at the same time. Aside from waiting for VideoRedo to come out with a version supporting DivX, any other software recommendations to check out? (Again, please keep in mind non-techie with no desire to learn the insides of VirtualDub, but not afraid to fork over some dough in exchange for saving myself some brain damage).

Thanks!

[MrD]

I've yet to produce a Divx from MPEG that looks ok to me. Maybe I can't work the encoder but IMO mpeg2->divx aint worth the hassle.

Womble is pretty much idiot proof and quick 5-7 minutes per VOB.

NB: AMD 4600+ / 2GB RAM

-MrD