Using the AccessDTV HDTV Card w/ SageTV

[Narflex]

Howdy. :)

I've decided to release a patch for SageTV 1.4.10 that enables *experimental* recording with the AccessDTV HDTV card. I wrote this a couple months ago, and it works fairly well in my testing, but use it at your own risk. This is NOT a commitment to supporting the AccessDTV card. I'm simply posting this because I see no reason to keep it to myself and there's a decent chance people can make use of the work....and you might even get it fully working in your setup.

Instructions
---------------------------------
1.This patch requires SageTV or SageRecorder 1.4.10 to be installed first. Then download and extract http://sage.tv/SageDLL1.4.10PatchADTV.zip to your SageRecorder or SageTV folder. Overwrite the Sage.dll file that's already there.

2. Upgrade to the V2.5 ADTV drivers, it won't work with any earlier version

3. Copy the JanusPSI.dll file from the ADTV folder to the SageTV or SageRecorder folder.

You will need to have a software MPEG2 HDTV-capable decoder installed on your system for this to work.

The card will show up as "Janus Capture Device". The only known problem is if you try to watch a channel with bad reception it might crash Sage because the MPEG2 data gets severely corrupted in this situation and Sage can only handle so much corruption at this point before it gets sick.

You'll also see the hardware decoder listed. You can try it, and it might work for you...I have had it working in testing. If you try to use it while recording, you will get a BSOD. Even though the hardware is capable of recording & playing back at the same time...the way that the driver allows this is not currently compatible with Sage's multimedia architecture.

Have fun. :dance:

[StylinLP]

Wonderfull news. After I resolve my basic SageTV functionality my next project is to install AccessDTV card. Glad to see there may be a solution for this.

[Chuck Coughlin]

This is great news!!!!! I cannot wait to try this. I am willing to pay a premium for HDTV support if it will make any difference in the development cycle. You made my week!

Question though:

What decoder were you using with what video card. What were (are) your system spec's? Any insight into this would be very helpful.

[Narflex]

Chuck,

This is where you'll have to play around the most to see what works for you. I'm using the MPEG2 decoders that came with the ADTV card. They're not registered by default, but take a look and you'll find the DVD Express Audio & Video Decoders in your ADTV folder. From DOS run regsvr32 on them and you'll be able to use those decoders in Sage.

My video card is a GeForce MX440SE. The CPU is an AthlonXP 1800+.

Have fun. :)

[mkerdman]

Hey Jeff - Very cool I'd love to try it.

The link above does not work, however.


Thanks,


Murray Kerdman

[JJarmoc]

Sweet, time for me to go buy an HD card.

[dkardatzke]

I just updated the link, should work now.

[rotaryracer]

Guys, this is GREAT news! Thank you for releasing this patch!

So, if I understand correctly, you can schedule shows on the AccessDTV using the Sage interface and the recordings show up as normal?

For playback through software decoding, can this be done directly through Sage or do you need to jump out and run them through a 3rd party app?

If I run the onboard hardware decoder, will this require sending the output out of the AccessDTV? I'm assuming software decoding would let me output via the video card connection (similar to PVR-250). If I use the hardware decoder, do I need to use the AccessDTV breakout cable? I'd like to use the DVI out on my Radeon and not have to goof with two separate video connections.

Thanks Sage!

[Narflex]

rotaryracer,

The files will show up in Sage as normal and you can play them back through Sage also using software decoding.

The onboard hardware decoder is somewhat functional with this patch, but not that usable. Stick with the software decoding if you're going to try to use this.

[djg]

Jeff,

This is really great news and I am anxious to try it. You mention it requires the version 2.5 drivers - there were actually two versions. The first is dated 10/25/02 and the second 11/7/02. Both have the same driver version 4.10.1.52 but show the different dates in device manager when installed. I don''t know what the difference is except that the 11/7 drivers cause an instant reboot when tuning one of the Chicago HDTV stations. I have no issues with the 10/25 version so use that. Can you comment on which dated version you are using?

Thanks,

Dave

[LaVike]

Is it true that the AccessDTV card records in a non-standard format and that you have to use the AccessDTV card or some kind of proprietary AccessDTV software to play recording? From searching on hear and AVS it is confusing how this card works. Being able to record TV, archive to DVD, and then play back a DVD is a great benefit of SageTV. I hope this doesn't change when the HDTV capabilities are added.

Also, for the smart folks out there, what does an HDTV DirectTV or cable box output? Is it a digital or analog stream? If digital, is it some standard format?

Thanks!

Nils

[JJarmoc]

As far as I've heard, the AccessDTV captures a standard .ts stream like any other HD capture card. Mine is still on order, so I may not be right, but that's my impression thus far.

As for the output of DirectTV or a cable box, it's analog. As has been discussed here before, there's nothing currently available that can capture this and make it available on the PCI bus.

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
As far as I've heard, the AccessDTV captures a standard .ts stream like any other HD capture card. Mine is still on order, so I may not be right, but that's my impression thus far.

As for the output of DirectTV or a cable box, it's analog. As has been discussed here before, there's nothing currently available that can capture this and make it available on the PCI bus.

The .TS files written by SageTV should be standard .TS streams like any other HD capture card.

AccessDTV files were previously encrypted and had a proprietary file scheme.

Upon the pending release of the next version of the AccessDTV software it will create standard .TS streams like any other HD capture card.


Murray Kerdman

[LaVike]

Thanks for the very fast responses! Very informative! So to make sure no good deed goes unpunished, I have some more questions about this card. :D

The iTech site references handling analog and digital inputs. Can I replace my PVR250 with this card or is it doing SW MPEG2 encoding?

I have other questions about the card. Read most of the long thread on AVS but that's talking about SW features that are being added. The iTech site isn't very helpful. Is there a better source. Basically I want to output via DVI from my video card to my HDTV. Can I do this or do I need to use one of the outputs on the AccessDTV card.

Just to make this about SageTV, the only reason I'm considering this is I want to use SageTV with all this stuff. Sorry if its gotten off topic.

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by LaVike
Thanks for the very fast responses! Very informative! So to make sure no good deed goes unpunished, I have some more questions about this card. :D

The iTech site references handling analog and digital inputs. Can I replace my PVR250 with this card or is it doing SW MPEG2 encoding?


>>>> No. accessDTV only does NTSC viewing, no recording.


I have other questions about the card. Read most of the long thread on AVS but that's talking about SW features that are being added. The iTech site isn't very helpful. Is there a better source. Basically I want to output via DVI from my video card to my HDTV. Can I do this or do I need to use one of the outputs on the AccessDTV card.


>>>> DVI output may be possible with SageTV SW playback of (1) .TS files it or the (2) "To-Be-Released accessDTV" files each create.


Just to make this about SageTV, the only reason I'm considering this is I want to use SageTV with all this stuff. Sorry if its gotten off topic.



Murray Kerdman

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by djg
Jeff,

This is really great news and I am anxious to try it. You mention it requires the version 2.5 drivers - there were actually two versions. The first is dated 10/25/02 and the second 11/7/02. Both have the same driver version 4.10.1.52 but show the different dates in device manager when installed. I don''t know what the difference is except that the 11/7 drivers cause an instant reboot when tuning one of the Chicago HDTV stations. I have no issues with the 10/25 version so use that. Can you comment on which dated version you are using?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

Just use the Beta Drivers & Software (this is NOT the new release version) that are posted now at accessDTV:

07-Nov-02 V2.5 Beta Drivers (600KB>
accessDTV Drivers.

22-Oct-02 V2.5.02 Beta Software (6.8MB>
accessDTV V2.5.02 Beta

Please send any comments to: beta@accessdtv.com

11-Nov-02 V2.5 Readme File (4KB>
Readme File

http://www.accessdtv.com/accessdtv/downloads.htm

They work well with 2000/XP.

PSIP and sub channel problems do exist and are created by the haphazard coding of certain local stations.

Contact your local broadcaster if you have any problems triggered by sub channel tunning or sub channel switching.

[Narflex]

dig, I'm using the drivers from 11/7.

[djg]

Jeff and Murray,

Thanks for the reply. I installed the trial version a few minutes ago and got it working using the 10/25 drivers I/ve been using. There are a few problems but it works well on NBC, ABC, and PBS. It stutters on CBS and gives me a frozen picture on FOX. I suppose those are more an issue with the way those stations broadcast or the video decoder - I'm using WinDVD Intervideo decoders. This is my first try with SageTV and I am impressed with the interface and how well it does work for an "experimental" version.

I also note some of the Chicago area HDTV broadcasts such as WGN (19), WCIU (27), and WPWR (51) don't show up on the channel listing.

If this is a preview what's to come, I am very happy.

Thanks for releasing this,

Dave

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by djg
Jeff and Murray,

Thanks for the reply. I installed the trial version a few minutes ago and got it working using the 10/25 drivers I/ve been using. There are a few problems but it works well on NBC, ABC, and PBS. It stutters on CBS and gives me a frozen picture on FOX. I suppose those are more an issue with the way those stations broadcast or the video decoder - I'm using WinDVD Intervideo decoders. This is my first try with SageTV and I am impressed with the interface and how well it does work for an "experimental" version.

I also note some of the Chicago area HDTV broadcasts such as WGN (19), WCIU (27), and WPWR (51) don't show up on the channel listing.

If this is a preview what's to come, I am very happy.

Thanks for releasing this,

Dave


Dave,

Very cool.

Try recording a program and playing it back using the pause, review and fast forward keys of SageTV.

Do the same for "live" HDTV.

SageTV is "always" recording, so, try pausing, reviewing and fast forwarding "live" as well.

Then, try closing SageTV and opening accessDTV.

Right click on the FILE button of accessDTV and browse to the directory where your SageTV keeps its "Video" files and try to play back the .TS file SageTV created.

This brings up the DEMO mode of accessDTV which is not fully featured and will only PLAY, PAUSE and STOP .TS files.

When the new release of accessDTV comes out you will be able to PLAY these SageTV created files in accessDTV with all playback features enabled.

Please report back your experiences and impressions.


Murray Kerdman

[RBTConsultants]

OK, got it installed and running with Sage Recorder. Tried it with Intervideo filters and got 100% CPU utilization. Switched to Sonic filters and CPU dropped under 50% with DXVA enabled.

It tunes the tuner and records. However, watching the picture using SageRecorder as the player has issues. For example, it works great with Fox and NBC here in Philly. But a blank picture w/ sound on CBS. ABC looks like about 1 FPS with jerky sound.

However, it does record the TS files nicely no matter the channel, better than AccessDTV because it records one big file instead of a bunch of little ones. This by itself has some value.

I took the .TS files and played them back in Zoomplayer. First I used the ELECARD DMUX. Get picture and sound fine. The problem for me with the Elecard demux has always been that on recordings from some networks it can't seek (skip forward, back slider doesn't work), etc. Things just kinda freeze up. On other networks it works fine.

So, I thought, hey, let me try the Sage demux. Now, when I play back the recorded stream in Zoomplayer, it exhibits the same behavior as Sage Recorder does, depending on which channel the stream was recorded from.

AHAH - as I have continued to contend all along, it is ALL in the DMUX. The decoders play back the TS streams fine, but the DMUXs are not built properly to handle TS streams, so it is a hit or miss proposition whether playback works from a particular channel. I suspect that this will even differ from city to city depending on their local broadcaster's characteristics, such as sub channels, etc.

I have no technical knowledge to know what differentiates these streams nor do I know what challenges would lie in trying to code a DMUX to handle them correctly, nor do I even have a clue how many variations might need to be considered. So, I'm not qualified to do anything more than comment that if all of this is going to work, we need a good DMUX.

I suspect that AccessDTV's DMUX may be the answer, but in Graphedit it's output pin will not connect to the input of any video decoders I have installed. (sonic, Intervideo, Cyberlink, Elecard).

So, I may use this to record since it gives me nice long files which are easier to handle. But it looks like if I want to play them back, it's still a conversion using HDTVTOMPEG2 before I can watch them in Zoomplayer with seek, skip, slider, etc. Because I really need to skip the commercials :-)

Hope somebody gives me an EPG and "watch one thing while something else is recording" soon. First one to the finish line gets my $

Bob

[Narflex]

If you're getting stuttering problems on playback and your CPU is not maxed out, then you should try increasing the demux buffers. This can be done in the registry at:
HKLM\Software\Frey Technologies\DShowFilters\MpegDeMux\NumBuffers

It should be at 32, try increasing it to 48 or 64 (it doesn't need to be a multiple of 16, any value is OK)

[RBTConsultants]

bumped it all the way to 128. Still sound but no picture on on Philly 26 (CBS) although the recording plays back in Zoomplayer using elecard dmux so I know the picture is there.

ABC has 2 sub channels so zoom player handles that very badly with the Elecard dmux, opens 2 video windows, hangs, but plays enough for me to see the TS is there.

Does your reply indicate you don't think there is any problem with the DMUX on TS playback?

Bob

[Narflex]

I think there are issues still with my demux doing TS playback. I'm going to be looking into this again sometime soon. I was waiting to get some more feedback on what does/doesn't work so I've got some hints on where to look for the problems.

[RBTConsultants]

I'll be happy to provide small sample captures of Philly stations if that is useful. You can tell me the logistics of how to get them to you, how big you want them, etc.

Bob

[djg]

Murray,

In answer to your question about trying recordings made with SageTV in the accessDTV DEMO mode, in most cases they work fine. I have one recording of Seinfeld from FOX in Chicago that plays and another that doesn't. But that's the only one so far.

I still the same issues Bob has reported where SageTV works fine on some channels and not on others. ABC, PBS (WTTW), and NBC work great, as does WGN most of the time. But FOX generally shows a still picture that can be paused and advanced but won't play. UPN also acts that way. If Jeff can get it so the play glitches are fixed and subchannels are selectable within Sage, that would be nirvana!

Dave

[mkerdman]

Dave

Jeff said he wass going to be looking into this again soon, particularly after he gets more detailed feedback about what to look for.

So, everyone should downlaod, test and report here.


Murray Kerdman

[JJarmoc]

I'll be posting more feedback once my AccessDTV card arrives. It was shipped last tuesday, and I requested a tracking number, but so far I've gotten neither the card, nor a response from the AcccessDTV folks.

[JJarmoc]

Update on my situation; AccessDTV contacted me via email, apparently after having seen this post (cool!) and provided me the tracking number. My previous email must've gotten lost, possibly on my end. At any rate, it seems there was some confusion about my apartment number, but I should be getting the card today.. woohoo!

In summary - The accessDTV folks are on the ball. Disregard my previous somewhat upset posting. :)

[djg]

An update on my experience with the accessDTV card and SageTV -

I installed the Elecard MPEG2 video decoder and find that the combination of Elecard video and Intervideo audio decoder works most of the time on 9 of the 10 digital stations I am trying to receive. The video is frozen on that station (UPN-51) but advances when I hit the fast forward button. The audio does not play on some stations that broadcast multiple soundtracks on different sub-channels. ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, and Fox all work well. It's the independents that are problematic. I get no sound on WGN for their primetime WB programs (no loss in my opinion) but when they switch to a single soundtrack such as for the news, it comes thru fine. It works well enough that after my trial period expired I bought SageTV. I hope Jeff will take this far enough to implement sub-channel selection which I think would fix many of the sound issues I have.

Dave

[JJarmoc]

I've been having trouble so far getting the AccessDTV card itself to work reliably, it seems to be an antenna issue, and I've now uninstalled the card, but get a bluescreen when trying to reinstall.

However, I have been able to get a few hours of steady use so I have a bit of information about Sage's support of the AccessDTV.

Overall, it seems to work pretty well. I was able to record and playback shows from all channels that I'm getting from the AccessDTV at the time. There are a few problems I see with the intergration so far. In order of importance to me, they are;

- Motion doesn't stutter but somehow doesn't feel smooth. It's difficult to explain but is quite annoying. I'm wondering if it may be that my harddrive can keep up with recording an HD and 2 SD streams, and playback the HD stream at the same time.

- I'm unable to playback subchannels at all. This isn't a huge deal, as there's not much on subchannels in my area that I'd like to watch (except the HD PBS feed which is great for showing off a system.)

- Some way to specify which shows use the HD tuner. Ideally, I'd like the guide data to include information on what is broadcast in HD and use the digital OTA tuner for these shows if it's available. Short of that, being able to force a recording to use a specific tuner would help too. I could raise the priority of the DTV tuner so it'd be used first if available, but the problem with that is if I'm recording two shows at the same time, and both are available on my DTV lineup but one is HD and one is Digital SD, I have no way to ensure the HD show gets precedence.

- When playing back a recording or watching a live stream, I do not get DD5.1 audio. It appears this may be due to a limitation of the AccessDTV to output DD on the PCI bus. Mega bummer.

- During the initial setup phase I'm still in, having a signal strength meter within Sage would be very helpful. I'm not sure if this is really possible though, and it likely wouldn't be of much use past these first few days.

-

All in all, it seems to be working fairly well. The core is definitely there, but there's just a few things that could make it really great.

[Chuck Coughlin]

Well I finally had a chance to build up the computer and test Sage with the ATV card over the weekend. Here are my findings:

The install went smooth without incident. The sage setup screens helped me through selecting local over the air DTV stations. This part went well all though my local UPN station was not listed. This raises the question can I manually add stations?

I initially decided to install the Sonic decoders based on what I have heard on AVS when using these decoders with a radeon based card.

Since this was my first exposure to Sage it took me a while to get the hang of going to live TV. Once I got there I found the I had no picture at all. I did get some intermittent sound but it was mostly studders. So following the advice of Narflex I registered the decoders that came with the ATV card. After a reboot of the software I found I had a picture! Interestingly though I could only receive programs with station that did not have any sub-channels. Well this is not entirely accurate. Our local NBC (1080i)affiliate broadcasts one major and two minor channels. Sage tuned into one of the sub-channels that was showing the local weather map. The other channel, CBS (1080i),either was blank or gives me studdering sound with a frozen frame.

I did get a great picture on ABC (720p) and Fox (480p). I was able to do all the trick play features and it seemed to work as advertised.


My system spec's
XPsp1
AMD 2200+
ECS K7S5A Pro
512 DDR
Radeon 7200

Questions:

How can I pick sub channels?
Will there be further development using this card?
Can Dolby Digital sound be passed through to a SPDIF out on a sound card?
Can these files be played through a LAN with the Sage network client?
Is there a way to utilize the RGB output on the ATV card?

If you guys need any additional info or want a beta tester I would be happy to help!

[Rob]

Chuck,

Regarding your question:

"my local UPN station was not listed. This raises the question can I manually add stations?"

From reading other posts, it is my understanding that you cannot manually add stations; however, starting Nov 1, you should get UPN fine. Sage currently only purchases a subset of the program data from Zap2it. Starting Nov 1 they will purchase the entire set of Zap2it data. I'm currently missing several of my local channels (including UPN), but when I look on the Zap2it web site they are all present. So, they should be available Nov 1 (when sage starts buying all the Zap2it program data).

[stanger89]

This is really encouraging news. Couple of questions from a SageTV junkie with money burning a hole in my pocket.

Will the AccessDTV SW run along side SageTV? Just wondering if I get an one and it won't work well with SageTV in my area. Will I be able to use the AccessDTV SW and SageTV at the same time?

[stanger89]

Just thought everyone here might be interested. The AVSForum AccessDTV team/AccessDTV has released a massive driver/app update (at least it looks like that to an interested person without an ADTV).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=310478

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by stanger89
This is really encouraging news. Couple of questions from a SageTV junkie with money burning a hole in my pocket.

Will the AccessDTV SW run along side SageTV? Just wondering if I get an one and it won't work well with SageTV in my area. Will I be able to use the AccessDTV SW and SageTV at the same time?

stanger89


Yes, absolutely the new accessDTV v2003.0 and SageTV are complelety compatible.


Murray Kerdman

[stanger89]

You guys are making it harder and harder to to avoid buying one of these.

[gsr]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
I've been having trouble so far getting the AccessDTV card itself to work reliably, it seems to be an antenna issue, and I've now uninstalled the card, but get a bluescreen when trying to reinstall.

Which version of the software are you trying to install? What version of Windows? I'd definitely go with the new software and driver release that we posted at iTech's accessDTV site yesterday:

accessDTV HiDefinitionPVR 2003.0 Release (http://www.accessdtv.com/accessdtv/downloads.htm)

If you're having problems specific to the accessDTV drivers and/or software, it may be more appropriate to post at AVS forums so we don't clog the Sage forum with stuff that isn't Sage specific.

- When playing back a recording or watching a live stream, I do not get DD5.1 audio. It appears this may be due to a limitation of the AccessDTV to output DD on the PCI bus. Mega bummer.

How do you have the audio hooked up? Currently, the accessDTV only outputs digital audio from the SPDIF connector on the accessDTV card. We'll be investigating how difficult it would be to send it out a soundcard's SPDIF output - not sure yet if that's a software only, driver only, or software and driver level change.

[chrisc16]

I just ordered an AccessDTV card this morning in the hopes that I can put together some sort of HD PVR with Sage. Should I expect any problems if AccessDTV is the only capture card for Sage?

Also, will it be possible to view the recorded HDTV on a client over ethernet?

Thanks,
Chris

[JJarmoc]

In response to GSR -
I have not yet tried that new software. I'll do that tonight and report back. Honestly, the ADTV has been pretty much collecting dust since I bought it, since I can't get it to lock channels reliably.
As for audio, I'm using my onboard soundcard's SPDIF. I have switched to the ADTV's output when watching through it's application, but when watching through SageTV, the output of the ADTV does nothing, so the best I get is stereo through my SPDIF. Obviously, I'd be excited it DD5.1 were available through my soundcard. I need to have my receiver attached to my soundcard for other TV and DVD audio, so using the ADTV's audio is really not aforeseeable option. It'll be soundcard stereo or soundcard DD for me. I'd prefer DD, but for the time being stereo is alright..

[Rob]

Well between vacation, kids and new accessdtv drivers I have not had time until recently to try this all out.

After installing the first set of v2003 accessdtv drivers I was getting some blue death screens from accessdtv and some instances where sage would simply close itself, but after installing the second v2003 accessdtv driver, these are gone and it nearly works completely. If it matters, I always start sagetv first and then put it to sleep when I use Accessdtv. Then I always close accessdtv before awaking sage.

The accessdtv tuner integrates into the sage guide perfectly (well i had to map the analog local stations to their digital counterparts, because the digital ones were not in the guide). When a program is selected from the guide (to record or to watch) sage uses the accessdtv first and the pvr350 if the accessdtv tuner is busy (perfect!).

I've recorded content from all my local digital stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, UPN, WB and a local affiliate KDFI). All these recordings playback perfectly using the accessdtv software. Using sage to playback, Fox and WB are fine. ABC and CBS playback their weather subchannel. The others freeze, stutter or skip through the video. I get the same results when I select one of these channels to watch "live" in sagetv. I find it interesting that the stations that work for me do not for some other users and the stations that don't work for me do work for some other users.

So I'm currently using sage to do all my recording and for the stations that do not playback in sage I use the accessdtv software to view them.

For the playback that does work in sage, I've noticed I am getting spdif dolby digital passed to my receiver and I can switch my the resolution to 1080i and it looks great on my RPTV.

I'm sure hoping sage (Jeff) can resolve the playback issues and provide the ability to select subchannels. I wish there was a way I could help to get this done. Right now this is so very close to a perfect pvr solution, with both analog tv and digital tv being controlled through one application.

Another thing I've noticed, but have not played with enough to know if there is already a solution within sage, is aspect ratio control. Since digital content sometimes comes 16x9 and sometimes comes 4:3 with curtains on the side, accessdtv has settings for "has curtain" and "has letterbox" so that in all cases black bars can be removed. I'm not sure how to do this yet with sagetv.

Keep up the good work Jeff!!!

Thanks,
Rob

[Forstall]

The AccessDTV web page states that it has "AC/3 surround sound audio." Excuse my ignorace, but does this mean that there is Dolby Digital support for recording/playback?

[Rob]

Yes it does. When the broadcast is Dobly Digital, the AccessDTV card is capable of record/playback of Dolby Digital. The accessdtv software only outputs this through the spdif output on the actual AccessDTV card. It is not passed over the PCI bus to the sound card like some other HDTV cards do. I'm hoping the development team addresses this in the future, but I also agree with the priorties they have been applying as they fix things.

When Sage is used to control the accessdtv card, Dolby Digital is included in the recorded files and played back via the systems sound card (I guess this assumes the system sound card has SPDIF output).

There are plenty of people around here that have more experience than I do using Accessdtv and using SageTV, so if I've misrepresented anything, please jump in.

[RBTConsultants]

Just wanted to jump in here with some news. I have been recording using AccessDTV and Sage for a while now, as well as using the new AccessDTV code for recording also. In either case, I am still trying to find the best playback mechanism.

Sage is not satisfactory because of problems mentioned in this thread. It is doing software playback and there are problems with demuxing different broadcast network recordings.

AccessDTV is not satisfactory because I cannot play back while something else is recording.

So, I have been using OnAir HD Editor from SASEM which plays back every TS file I can throw at it perfectly. Others have also reported similar success.

Now, if Sage could figure out a way to support the SASEM filters for playback, then we could use Sage as the playback tool for HD recordings. That would rock.

Then, we need to get Sage to support various HD tuners for recording and scheduling. I am selfish and want it to support AccessDTV but supporting a cheaper card with no hardware playback would be great also.

I envison where I can schedule a recording from the EPG and if it is available in HD it would be recorded using that tuner, otherwise it would use a PVR-250 tuner to record it. The it would selectively play back using the correct filters depending on which kind of recording it is.

This would give me seamless integration of NTSC and HDTV and my wife would love it. Then I could build HTPCs to sell to customers that would SMOKE consumer PVR available.

In any case, the fist step should be to get SAge to do playback using their own demux or allowing us to use one that works like the SASEM.

Just my $.02

Bob

[salsbst]

Is there any reason why a multichannel audio filter like WinDVD's cannot be used to output 5.1 via a multichannel analog card like the M-Audio Revolution when using SageTV for software playback?

[Bob, I agree with what you are envisioning, for what that's worth.]

[HookedOnTV]

This development is heading in the same direction as my desires. Question I have about the necessary "horsepower" on the client. I like the idea of the VIA EPIA solutions with their near silence but am fearing that they will not be able to handle the software decoding of the HD transport stream.

Any experiences on the lower end of hardware?

As an alternative to the EPIA I have been looking at a system using the mobile Athlon XP processors.

[mangriotis]

I have a few problems with AccesDTV and Sage as well.

I have emailed the AccessDTV tech support, but after 3 weeks have yet to hear a response. Since the AVS forum is down for indeterminate amount of time, I thought I would try for some answers here.

My main issue is this: I cannot go fullscreen with the AccessDTV software. When I press the fullscreen button on the virtual remote, the mouse gets restricted to within this button but does nothing to the picture. I am able to switch between small and normal sizes...

Within Sage, I experiencing frame drops and/or stuttering using the AccessDTV software on certain channels. I am in the Chicago area. the only channel that works reliably is WLS-DT (ABC), and I believe it's because it's a 4:3 480p signal, any high def. and the video either stutters a ton or locks up completely (although the scroll bar on the bottom seems to indicate it is continuing to record). Do I need to make changes in settings? increase my RAM?... I already checked that my disks are DMA mode

In the AccessDTV software, many of these channels work better although with HD material I still notice frame drops and slight stuttering...

Can anyone here be of help?

[Rob]

Originally posted by mangriotis


When I press the fullscreen button on the virtual remote, the mouse gets restricted to within this button

This is not a problem I've seen since I upgraded to the 2003 beta releases. If your still running with Version 2.4 or the 2.5 beta, I'd highly recommend you install the 2003 driver and application. It has resolved much of the flakyness and instability of the prior releases.

http://www.accessdtv.com/accessdtv/downloads.htm

You probably will not get much support from itech. But you will get support if you go to avsforum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325276&highlight=accessdtv

Regarding the sage problems you refer to. I experience the same thing. Only 2 channels playback properly. Some channels tune to the wrong subchannel and some playback very jerky. I think the Sage guys are aware of these and hopefully when they get a breather from Sage2, they will get this worked out.

[chadman]

I just added the AccessDTV card and I can not get it to work with SageTV. I installed the lastest drivers and software from the access web page:
v2003.6 (beta Release Candidate 2) accessDTV DeskTop Software for Windows 2000 and XP (5.65 Mb - 11/05/03)

accessDTV Drivers
v2003.0 Release Candidate 4 accessDTV Drivers for Windows 2000 and XP (360 KB - 10/22/03)

When I try to run SageTV it will not start. I first get the error "Application would not start, the JanusPCI.dll could not be found. Reinstalling the application my fix this problem." After that popup box I get a few more errors and the Sage will not start. I have tried to reinstall SageTV twice but keep getting the same errors. any ideas?

Thanks,
Chad

[djg]

Chad,

It sounds like you need to copy the JanusPSI.dll file from your accessDTV directory to your SageTV directory, if you haven't done so already. I trust you've also copied the new Sage.dll from the first post to overwrite the one installed with SageTV. That's all it should take.

Hope that helps,
Dave

[chadman]

Thanks dgj, that did it, well kind of. I did have to copy that file from my AccessDTV dir to my SageTV dir. I can now start Sage, but not sure how it should work. Do I still have to run the AccessDTV software? I can not seem to get a picture just by running the Sage software. Is there any other special setting I am missing?

Thanks,

Chad

[djg]

No, you don't run the accessDTV software - Sage does all the controlling of the card, in fact, it will probably lock up you pc if you try to run it with Sage. You need to select the video and audio decoders in the Setup > Detailed Setup page. I have WinDVD installed so the Intervideo Video and Audio decoders show up as a choice on the Video and Audio tabs of the Detailed Setup dialog. If you don't have those available, you may have others that will work or you may need the Elecard decoders - here's the link: http://www.elecard.com/download/ These will work for 21 days or so and then you have to buy them for $20. if you want to continue using them.

I assume you ran the setup wizard to set the Janus Capture TV tuner as your source and configured a channel lineup for the guide to work.

Dave

[chadman]

Thanks again djg. Ok I did not have the decoders setup. It works now, but I am not getting any sound and the piture is jittery, kind of like slow motion. It might be the computer I have it hooked up to, Pet III 800MHZ. I am going to try it in my P4 and see what happens. Ill let you know.

Thanks,
Chad

[chadman]

btw is there an advantage to the Elecard decoders? I have the Intervideo and Sonic decoders I have been using for ZoomPlayer and they seem to work well.

Thanks,
Chad

[djg]

I don't see an advantage to the Elecard decoders other than there are some files that won't play with the Intervideo but will with the Elecard and vice-versa. But if I had to choose only one, I'd stick with the Intervideo.

It sounds like your processor is a too weak to play the HD streams in Sage, which is all in software. Your system should be ok with accessDTV app since that's decoded in hardware.

Dave

[riekl]

Ok .. AccessDTV installed using the latest drivers (via the avsforum 2003.0? update)

Installed the demo of SageTV, set it up as instructed in this forum (everything seemed to go smoothly the sage setup showed the janus capture device etc). Set up my guide for the "local broadcast" channels .

However I can not "see" anything on any channel nor do i hear anything no matter what decoders i use (including the dvd ones) one question is how sage maps these channels from the accessdtv card ? For example my cbs is channel 3 analog (and in all epg's) but my HDTV cbs is channel 2 ? How do I get to see this info and tune to this channel ?

[djg]

riekl,

You have to remap any analog channels in the program guide to tune to the proper digital channel, if the digital channel does not show up in the program guide. For example, channel 20 analog broadcasts its digital content on chan 21 in Chicago but only channel 20 shows up in the Sage program guide. So right click on the channel in the channel setup menu and change the channel number to the digital channel. This works fine for me but there are some issues with subchannels that Sage cannot address.

Hope this helps,
Dave

[riekl]

Ok channels are working .. but i can't seem to find a decoder that works well .. which is odd because the dvd express one is the same one that the accessdtv software uses right ? With dvd express i get 100% cpu usage and nothing on the display (this is a 2.6ghz cpu 800mhz fsb mind you)

With sonic decoder and 64 buffers (as recommended earlier in this thread) cpu usage is below 20% but it skips around like crazy .. ideas on what decoder i can use ?

[djg]

As I mentioned in a post above, I have the best luck with the Intervideo video and audio decoders as installed with WinDVD 4. But they aren't perfect. CBS gives me the most trouble - ABC, NBC, and Fox work fine.

[riekl]

Intervideo sound has a lot of audio drop outs ..
oh well its better then nothing :)

Does anying know if Sage 2.0 includes official support for the AccessDTV ? That would be enough to push me over to buying it now ..

[dkardatzke]

riekl,

v2 does not include any improved support for the aDTV card. It will still be supported in its current form at really an "alpha" level. We hope to revisit possible formal support after the release of v2.

[Rob]

Originally posted by dkardatzke
riekl,

...We hope to revisit possible formal support after the release of v2.

AWSOME! :D

[mangriotis]

Not sure if it's directly related to the AccessDTV card but I am having a problem...

I have SAGE1 (the AccessDTV card) as my first source. The only channel in the current lineup is ABC (WLS-DT), since it's the only one that works reliably for me.

SAGE2 is the PVR-250, which has 2 sources on it. #2 is the DirecTV lineup, which has TechTV and all the HBO's on it. Source #3 is my local comcast cable...

The problem is this: When I choose to record something on HBO manually (i.e. search for it, and press record (yellow outline)), Sage chooses to record it on SAGE1 (accessDTV) but it's actually broadcasted on HBO, which is my source #2 and should be SAGE2... to put it another way, Sage records incorrectly.

I am not sure why this happens. Any ideas?

[carlgar]

Originally posted by mangriotis

The problem is this: When I choose to record something on HBO manually (i.e. search for it, and press record (yellow outline)), Sage chooses to record it on SAGE1 (accessDTV) but it's actually broadcasted on HBO, which is my source #2 and should be SAGE2... to put it another way, Sage records incorrectly.

I am not sure why this happens. Any ideas?
Do you have an updated Sage.jar file? If not you may want to review the thread Recording prob w/ dual 250's (http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?postid=16320#post16320)

[AJ Bertelson]

I am thinking about picking one of these cards up, what is the overall experience with the card?

[Rob]

I'm very happy with mine. Especially with the significant software and driver improvements that have been made recently by the AVS Forum team. I use it for all my DTV and HDTV viewing on a 64" RPTV and it looks and works great for me. I am very much looking forward to when Sage fully supports it. I'll finally have the analog and digital PVR that I've been working toward for a year and a half. I can't wait...

[chrisc16]

My overall experience with the card has been mostly good. While I feel that the AccessDTV 3.0 software is among the best of all the HD tuners available, the integration with SageTV at this moment leaves something to be desired. It records perfectly, and the timeshifting in Sage even works great, but the playback is useless to me, since on all but one channel Sage plays the wrong subchannel. This means that I get either a weather feed, spanish audio, or a still frame. The one channel that does work is a PBS that doesn't transmit any HD at this point.

But once the .ts playback in Sage is perfected, I think it will be a great combo.

Just my $.02
-Chris

[AJ Bertelson]

So does it record the HD signals in HD then?

[JJarmoc]

So does it record the HD signals in HD then?

It sure does. It records the entire .ts stream. As other posters have mentioned, sage currently lacks subchannel support which can screw things up a bit.

[Llamas]

I've got an AccessDTV card, but cannot receive OTA signals. I have a sister-in-law that can see the antennae from her apartment.

If I park a machine in a corner of her apartment, and record HD from there, will I be able to play back the .ts files, through SageTV, at home?

What isn't clear to me, from the reading I've done, is whether it's Sage that's saving AccessDTV recordings in .ts format, or if the latest AccessDTV software will do this, too.

Since would be a temporary solution, until Comcast finally rolls out the Mot 6208, I'd like to do the bare minimum to get this to happen.

Thanks,

--Mike

[JJarmoc]

The AccessDTV software will also save .ts files, but it's interface is really poor when it comes to scheduling recordings.

[stanger89]

What's the current status of HD playback in Sage? Has it gotten better? Every time I watch something on network TV I can't help but feel let down that I could be watching it in HD.

[JJarmoc]

Stranger -
Still no subchannel tuning, and sage still freezes if the HD signal drops out. IMO, it's not quite useable yet. I've got the ADTV, but I still watch things in standard def if I'm using Sage. I'll occasionally watch something HD with ADTV's software, but that means real time, no commercial skip, etc..

[AJ Bertelson]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
It sure does. It records the entire .ts stream. As other posters have mentioned, sage currently lacks subchannel support which can screw things up a bit. I searched the thread and I couldn't locate this problem. Could you explain more about what is going wrong?

[JJarmoc]

AJ -
DJG's post of 12/5/03 mentions the issue briefly;
This works fine for me but there are some issues with subchannels that Sage cannot address.

Rob's post of 11/24 also mentions it;
Regarding the sage problems you refer to. I experience the same thing. Only 2 channels playback properly. Some channels tune to the wrong subchannel and some playback very jerky. I think the Sage guys are aware of these and hopefully when they get a breather from Sage2, they will get this worked out.

It's also been mentioned in a few other threads, since it's a playback issue and is not related to the ADTV directly;

xlurkr posted about the issue on 09/08/03 in this thread (http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=384&perpage=20&highlight=subchannel&pagenumber=4) and there's a little bit of follow up with others reporting the same problem.

Narflex addressed the issue
here (http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1212&highlight=subchannel) There's another thread about it here (http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1621&highlight=subchannel) and you'll see that I sent Narflex examples of a few files that were exhibiting the problem on 09-05-03.

At any rate, it may not be an issue for you if subchannels aren't used in your area, and it's really not the biggest problem I see with Sage's HD support so far. The AccessDTV support has been advertised as 'early' and 'alpha.' and that's about what it is. If you want to play with it, jump in! If you're looking for a complete, full featured HD-PVR solution, I'd recommend waiting.

I knew it wasn't going to be in working condition when I started tinkering with it, but month's later there's been no progress really.. It's disappointing but I can accept it if it means Sage2 is close. Hopefully they'll revisit some of these issues after Sage2 releases. If not, HD support will be coming soon to Tivo and other PVRs.

*** Edit to fix incorrect link

[HookedOnTV]

The recent release of a new version of the software for the Accessdtv software is a pretty big step towards a fully function pvr with all the trick play. Doesn't really offer any advancement on the Sage side, which I'm sure will come, but does help in the meantime. Being able to pause live tv and let it sit for 15 minutes or so while you occupy yourself with something else then come back and watch your show, jumping through the commercials is a biggie for me.

Info on the release: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357583

[JJarmoc]

Yah, the new 2004 ADTV software is pretty good, but I still can't use it without swapping my transcoder's connection over to the ADTV's video out (at least if I want full screen) and it's still a hassle to have a seperate application with no remote control (unless I spend some time setting up girder). Without remote control, it's a hassle to do anything as when I'm full screen, I can't see the navigation display. I imagine girder would fix a lot of this, but for the amount of stuff that's in HD it's an awful lot of trouble. Sage supporting the ADTV card would be ohhh soo much better.

[mangriotis]

Obviously, the primary reason for using this card is for HD capability. However, due to the fact there is little (if any) actual usability of this card in Sage, has anyone attempted using the NTSC tuner through Sage? I was wondering if I could use this as an additional cable tv tuner...

[stanger89]

Sage requires a hardware encoder for NTSC which the ADTV doesn't have, so no the ADTV will not work as an SD recorder/tuner in Sage.

[mangriotis]

duh... I didn't even think about that (i.e. the basics). Saves me some trouble trying to get that to work then...

[manic_tool]

Has anyone tried this in 2.x yet? I ordered an AcessDTV card today but I'm already on 2.0.13. Will I have to go back to 1.4 or is there hope?

[JJarmoc]

Manic -
I last tried the ADTV with Sage with 2.0.12, but it wasn't working then. I havent' seen any announcements so I'd be shocked if anything has changed.

[rotaryracer]

I'm REALLY hoping Sage revisits ADTV support after v2.0 goes final. In a perfect world, here's my wishlist (which may or may not be complete):

- HDTV material noted in the EPG (Can Zap2It do this?)
- Autoselect ADTV tuner if HD recording is scheduled (and note conflicts if two HD programs are selected to record - maybe prompt with question to record SD on PVR?)
- Develop priority based on HDTV capability - if I want to watch Show XYZ and its showing in either HD or SD and I click on the SD show, ask me if I want to watch it in HD or automatically switch to HD (based on options selected in detailed setup)
- Remote controllable through Sage and Hauppauge silver remote
- Standard timeshifting capabilities a'la Sage
- Software decoding and playback a'la current Sage/PVR setup so that all HD video can be output through one video card to TV connection
- All audio (and ideally 5.1, although this may be driver-related) through soundcard SPDIF
- Probably not a big deal yet, but possibly the capability to support multiple ADTVs in the same box?!?!?!? Not even sure if there's enough HD programming now to warrant this, though.

Greedy sumbitch, ain't I? :D Seriously though, although I really like Sage 1.4.10 with my PVR250, I'm definitely looking forward to Sage FULLY supporting HDTV (whether that's ADTV or another card).

Jason

[stanger89]

I would not be a bit surprised if we see HD support once 2.0 goes gold. If I had to guess, I'd say Sage can already do everything you list except the first (don't know the logistics of that). But the current tuner/favorites merit probably behaves very similar to what you describe. Stuff is recorded first off the tuner with the highest merit (that could be set to the HD tuner). It might need to be tweaked a little to make a high merit favorite/manual kick a lower off a high merit tuner but that shouldn't be too hard.

I'm not too worried (I am getting impatient though) since if I read this thread correctly all the recording/scheduling on the ADTV works already, it's just the playback that needs work.

[Rob]

I think they intend (or at least at one point they intended) to finish out the high def support for the ADTV. I've been looking forward to this since last fall when I realized the potential. I've been working on my vision of the perfect HTPC for a little over a year now and I'm very hopeful that I'll be there in a few more months (once Sage 2.0 and Sage support for the ADTV is finished).

[lovingHDTV]

I have used Sage to record HDTV shows with the AccessDTV card. Works quite well. I just don't do it now because there are playback issues. I can't wait till this is fully implemented cause I can then cancel my cable service, as I can get all the channels I watch on cable OTA now :)

[jbuszkie]

Can anyone tell me if they can record to the access DTV card with sage in HD and use some other piece of software to watch a different prerecorded HD show??

I'm trying to decide if I want to chuck my Fusion II or build a seperate box for my hauppauge cards and let the fusion have it's own PC....

Jim

[chadman]

Originally posted by jbuszkie
Can anyone tell me if they can record to the access DTV card with sage in HD and use some other piece of software to watch a different prerecorded HD show??

I'm trying to decide if I want to chuck my Fusion II or build a seperate box for my hauppauge cards and let the fusion have it's own PC....

Jim

The sage tv software is way to buggy to use with the accessdtv card. I have tried a few times, but certain stations just do not work and the ones that do work are not consitant. I have given up on sage until they support HD cards. I think the sage software is some of the best out there, but all I watch are the local HD stations. The new accessdtv software is a huge improvment. It not even close to sage, but the best software I have seen for a HD card.

Thanks,
Chad

[jbuszkie]

I think I may have to go the route of giving my Fusion it's own box. I'll build another system for for my three hauppauge cards. It's not what I wanted to do, but I guess I'll have to....

I have a feeling that the ADTV card is going to lose momentum. I think cards that will have eventual QAM (256 that is) unencrypted support will come out ahead. I think I'm going to e-bay my fusion II and buy the nice low profile fusion III that has QAM256 ability (which they may never get working)

I wish the hauppauge cards were low profile, then I could move the cards to my client machine and make that the server and keep the fusion by itsself in the old server which will then be the sage client!

I will be tough for me to get the wife to agree to my building another PC!! :)

[lovingHDTV]

Would it be possible to get a similar beta type support for V2.0? Please :)

[JJarmoc]

Would it be possible to get a similar beta type support for V2.0? Please :)

I second that request.

As much as I love Sage, I've given up using it until HDTV capture is supported. I can record HDTV with a leased box from my cable company, and while the interface sucks and the software isn't nearly as intuitive or functional as Sage, it supports HDTV!

[djg]

I'll third that.

I've switched to MCE2005 using an HDTV Wonder but would put the accessdtv back in and move back to Sage if it was supported.

[Hector]

How well does that work for you in the meantime? I've just gotten into HD and am trying to learn the ropes/options.

peace . . .


I'll third that.

I've switched to MCE2005 using an HDTV Wonder but would put the accessdtv back in and move back to Sage if it was supported.

[djg]

I'm actually surprised how well it works. It's just not as flexible as Sage and there's the DRM (digital rights management) issues. But overall, it's really pretty good, especially the ota HDTV integration.

Dave

[Hector]

Thanks. I am getting my DirecTv HD box installed tomorrow which I also need for OTA. Supposedly I am in a good area for OTA HD.

I know I have to so something, after 6 years of timeshifting its hard to imagine not being able to even pause/rew et al.

If its not hard to explain, what's the biggest pain to you about the DRM implementation?

peace . . .

I'm actually surprised how well it works. It's just not as flexible as Sage and there's the DRM (digital rights management) issues. But overall, it's really pretty good, especially the ota HDTV integration.

Dave

[zz5]

I would also like to know about DRM and MCE. Is it actually a problem for practical purposes, or is just that there's the potential for problem? For example, can you not make a DVD from a recording made in MCE? Or is it just that using DRM Microsoft theoretically could stop you from making a DVD if they decided to encrypt recordings?

[djg]

For me, DRM is not yet an issue as I am just using the recordings on a single pc and haven't tried to archive anything to dvd. It's more the principle of the thing at this point and the unknowns of future changes that MS will institute.