MVP Over AC Lines?

[tmiranda]

I read a month or two ago about a product that uses a house's electrical system to carry network traffic. Two questions:

1. Who makes the product and what is it called? I know they have been around for some time but the product I am referring to is new and reaches sustained speeds in the 30-50 mbps range.

2. Anybody using this type of setup successfully with an MVP? I gave up waiting for the wireless MVP and purchased a new wired MVP. Now I've got to figure how to get it connected to the network.

Regards,

Tom

[JUC]

not sure but i recently saw that Belkin (i think) was trying to come out with a product that can reach 200mbps using the houses electrical system. Now--if that comes out that would be great. But--if a system that is currently available can sustain speeds at 30-50mbps i believe it should work fine. The only ones i have seen are only 11mbps
JUC

[dbfresh23]

The technology you're thinking of is called Powerline. Currently it's able to do 14mbps, I haven't seen or heard of anything faster - could be a new spec they are working on.

[tmiranda]

Thanks to both of you. I know about the HomePlug 1.0 stuff but I know I also saw a newer product/standard that was shipping that has a much higher sustained transfer rate. I'll have to look for the info when I get home tonight....

[pjwerdna]

Devolo (http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/)do 85Mbps versions for the UK, not sure about other countries.

I used a pair over christmas with the standard sage client with no trouble. All the recording were only at 1.6GB per hour, but the adapters seemed capable of at least 1MB per second.

[PGPfan]

The technology you're thinking of is called Powerline. Currently it's able to do 14mbps, I haven't seen or heard of anything faster - could be a new spec they are working on.

Might want to try THIS (http://www.netgear.com/products/details/XE104.php), it's 85 Mbps over the powerline. Have never tried one with Sage though, sorry.

-PGPfan

[tmiranda]

PGPfan, That's it. I'm going to try the XE102 since I do not need the router functionality. I'll report results here when the MVP and these babies arrive.

[kkoz]

PGPfan, That's it. I'm going to try the XE102 since I do not need the router functionality. I'll report results here when the MVP and these babies arrive.

I have a set of the XE104's (85 mbps) and they don't work very well so I don't think you'll be very happy with the XE102's at 14 mbps. With the XE104's when I start watching a video the stream is very choppy for the first 30 to 60 seconds, and then things start running smoothly. But every 10 minutes or so, I'll get 5 to 15 seconds of studder.

I've stopped using them, and have went to Wireless G Bridge which works much better, but still not as good as 100MB Ethernet!

I'm going to try the 200MB HomePlug devices when they come out. Hopefully those will give the extra throughput needed. The XE104's are close, but not quite good enough in my book.

-Kevin

[tmiranda]

Arg, I didn't see the difference in speed, I though the XE102 was the same as the XE104 minus the switching capability. The XE104 is also pricey. Time to look at a wireless bridge.....

[dagar]

You may want to search around some for reviews. The few I looked at were less than flattering about the units throughput (rated and actual). FWIW the HPNA 1.0 14mbs Powerline gear is great (I have a multivendor setup) but it's a CSMA-like Ethernet bus, unsuitable for video streaming.

[tmiranda]

I've seen mixed reviews. Some say it streams video just fine, others say they get stuttering. I was going to give it a shot since I record at low bitrates (0.9 GB/hr) and the MVP will be located in an area really difficult to get CAT5 to.

Wireless is of course a possibility but that is unreliable. I can stream to my laptop running Sage Client but it stutters badly when the microwave is on or the cordless phone is in use. This generates an unacceptable WAF .... :)

[dagar]

Throwing out that many bones, you may want to wait on the ~200mbs powerline gear that's coming down the pipe... name eludes me right now.

I think Netgear has a product using those PHYs, is supposed to support 802.1p frame-pause "QOS" as well. Though I wonder about how well it will work or help as the bus will still be (I think) CSMA (with no CD). Basically, 2 or 3 nodes would be max from a max bandwidth perspective.

[tmiranda]

I am considering that as well but the reviews say to expect it to be expensive.

[LostInSpace]

I'm using the Devolo 85mps but it does not work with the MVP. The picture is stuttering...

Is it possible to reduce the transcoding bitrate of the stream to the MVP?
I saw some parameters in the sage.properties file and tried to change them without success.

Ferdinand

[gplasky]

I'm using the Devolo 85mps but it does not work with the MVP. The picture is stuttering...

Is it possible to reduce the transcoding bitrate of the stream to the MVP?
I saw some parameters in the sage.properties file and tried to change them without success.

Ferdinand
What type of file are you watching? If it is a Sage TV recording that's a standard mpeg2 file and the MVP wouldn't transcode it. It has a hardware mpeg2 decoder on board.

Gerry

[dagar]

I'm using the Devolo 85mps but it does not work with the MVP. The picture is stuttering...

Is it possible to reduce the transcoding bitrate of the stream to the MVP?
I saw some parameters in the sage.properties file and tried to change them without success.

Ferdinand

How many nodes are you running on it? Just 2? Not using any surge bars are you? :blush:

[pjwerdna]

I'm using the Devolo 85mps but it does not work with the MVP. The picture is stuttering...

Have you used the microlink informer utility that comes with the devolo to check what speed the connection is. Plugging into extension leads etc can make a considerable differance.

I think I got 72mbps, which was about 1MB/sec real rate, and had no trouble playing 1.8BG/hour mpegs using the sage client. (Not sure what rate the MVP lpays though)

[tmiranda]

As far as I know the MVP will play at whatever bitrate the MPEG was recorded. The MVP just receives an MPEG stream and plays it as is. I think the max rate is something like 12mbps.

I'm still torn between getting a wired MVP from eBay and trying out the XE102 (or perhaps a wireless bridge) and waiting for the wireless MVP which is likely to have its own issues.

Anybody have any guesses on the price of the wireless MVP? I'm thinking it will be (relatively) expensive, say $179 - $199. I have no evidence whatsoever to support this, it's just a guess.

[gplasky]

It's suppose to list at $149.00. And it will also have a wired ethernet port too.

Gerry

[LostInSpace]

I have 3 nodes on it.
But if I connect only 2 nodes: used to connect Server to router.
If I connect the MVP to the router with an Ethernet cable : NOK but SageClient is ok... Strange.

[DIBU]

i have the allnet 160200 (i think so)..ah 200mb powerline red

i have no problems with watch my shows with my mvp's..

its work great

[DFA]

DIBU:

Looks cool but a Google search shows this to be mainly a Euro only product. Any knowledge of a 120 VAC version even if needed to be purchased from overseas (ship to USA).

PS: That's the AllNet ALL168200 model you refer to rather than 160200.

DFA

[steingra]

As far as I know the MVP will play at whatever bitrate the MPEG was recorded. The MVP just receives an MPEG stream and plays it as is. I think the max rate is something like 12mbps.

I'm still torn between getting a wired MVP from eBay and trying out the XE102 (or perhaps a wireless bridge) and waiting for the wireless MVP which is likely to have its own issues.

Anybody have any guesses on the price of the wireless MVP? I'm thinking it will be (relatively) expensive, say $179 - $199. I have no evidence whatsoever to support this, it's just a guess.
If you do go the XE102 route, can you post back your success with it? I might like to look into that also. thnx

[tmiranda]

Right now I'm waiting for the wireless MVP to come out. If it does not work well I will try the XE102/104 route. I'll keep you posted.

[timnelsonic]

Netgear just released their HDXB101 powerline adapters with a claimed speed of 200 Mbps. I haven't tried them yet, but I will in the next few days. I'll let you know how they work.

Before I had a good wireless pre-n system in place, I used some older Netgear adapters. They worked great in general, but weren't nearly fast enough for video applications. Rock solid connections, though.

I'm hopeful these new adapters will do the trick. They are available at amazon for $200 per pair: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GF2J76/sr=1-1/qid=1156349111/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0708800-2361634?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

[mdnttoker]

I own a pair of HDX101's. Let me know how they work for you.

I can get SageTV running w/o the adapters, but as soon as I use 'em, I get the infinite "Loading Application" screen.

Hauppauge's software and GB-PVR seems to work across 'em though...

FYI: I get about 30mbps from upstairs office to downstairs Home Theatre. (real world speed, config tool usually reports slightly higher)

-Dan

[priority]

I am finding the same thing...stuttering just comes and goes without warning. By playing around with the location of the adapters, I have gotten up to 50Mps according to the config software. The higher bit rates just seem to reduce the stutter, but it is far from eliminated. :bang: I have several hardwired MVPs in my house that have absolutely no playback problems, so the issue is definitely with the powerline adapters.

BTW...I am using a pair of Airlink101 Powerline 85Mbps adapters that were on sale at Fry's for $30 each.

[autoboy]

I have the 85mbit Netgear powerline adaptors. I had zero luck with the wireless MVP. Config utility shows 60mbit. I am able to get 2GB/hr recordings to work fine except I record at 3GB/hr. Thinking about sending these back for the 200mbit. Wish I had checked this forum first. The 200mbit ones are $200 at Frys. More than the MVP! For this price I could have built a small client!

[autoboy]

the 200mbit versions showed 85mbit connection using the netgear utility but my MVP would not connect over the connection. When I hooked up my laptop the throughput was pathetic. Very choppy graph and not much over 1mbit. At least the 85mbit versions were workable. Not sure why it never connected but i just took it back. Anyone have any luck with Speedbooster, 802.11n or other stuff for HD over wireless? My 802.11g game adaptor works great with the MVP now but i'm adding a 1080tv in the bedroom so I'm building a client. Stringing wires would be a PITA.

[stevech]

Data over home power line, even moreso than X10, will always struggle with the huge amount of bursty noise on power lines. Due to motors, florescent lights, noise from dimmers, and on and on. The bane of these systems is the attenuation of high frequencies arising from the use of "surge" filters in computers, power strips and TVs these days. These don't really suppress surges that you can see - just sub-milisecond spikes, and these are not as harmful as the 1/4 second or more surge/dip that are all too common.

Such interference is tolerable for web surfing, not so streaming data.

[mdnttoker]

the 200mbit versions showed 85mbit connection using the netgear utility but my MVP would not connect over the connection. When I hooked up my laptop the throughput was pathetic. Very choppy graph and not much over 1mbit. At least the 85mbit versions were workable. Not sure why it never connected but i just took it back. Anyone have any luck with Speedbooster, 802.11n or other stuff for HD over wireless? My 802.11g game adaptor works great with the MVP now but i'm adding a 1080tv in the bedroom so I'm building a client. Stringing wires would be a PITA.

Did you try the updated firmware on the Netgear website? (1.0.1.3 if memory serves...). Seemed to improve my experiences ...

[mattdcknsn]

Is anybody using these powerline adapters successfully? I am currently using a wired MVP with a wireless AP, seems to work fine. But if I can get a wired solution that would be better.

[mdnttoker]

Is anybody using these powerline adapters successfully? I am currently using a wired MVP with a wireless AP, seems to work fine. But if I can get a wired solution that would be better.

I'm using the Netgear 200mbps HDX101's right now and they're working just fine with SD streams. Remember that this '200' number is 100 each way, so even under perfect conditions you're really maxing out at 100mbps one-way.

If it were me, I'd buy them at the local retail store so I have the option to return as the actual throughput seems to vary widely based on the particular conditions in your wiring.

I get about 30mbps one-way from my server room to my living room right now.
I had problems booting Sage until the new firmware from Netgear and Sage v6. But right now, works perfectly.

-Dan

[mattdcknsn]

Thanks, I was hesitant to use powerline adapters because 5 years ago they weren't that reliable. But every place I go to people are saying that they work pretty good. I'll give them a shot. Thanks again