Looking for help with VOB, ISO, IMG, & MDS files.

[BugMan]

I've been able to view VOB files with a MediaMVP, but it only plays the specific VOB file and then ends and does not treat the collection of VOB & IFO files as a single entity and return to the main menu. Also, I have many .ISO & .IMG files that have an associated .MDS file made with Alcohol 120%. Has anybody had any luck playing them?

[gplasky]

As you have discovered with the most recent beta the only capabilty the MVP has is playing the .vob individually. It doesn't and won't support the playing of the .ifo like a regular rip. Based on that a .ISO or .IMG file won't play either because it depends on a normal DVD structure (.IFO) within the file format. And it would have to be able to either read the format or support something like Daemon tools.

Gerry

[Para]

I've been able to view VOB files with a MediaMVP, but it only plays the specific VOB file and then ends and does not treat the collection of VOB & IFO files as a single entity and return to the main menu. You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.

[BugMan]

You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.
How retarded is that!?:bang:

There are way too many DVD playing software (apps) out there for it to be this hard to play VOB/IFO like a normal DVD, where you can backup, go forward, etc. Yet, MPEG & DIVX movies play normally. I think the software writers dropped the ball. If a $20 dollar DVD player can play the VOB/IFO file assortment correctly, then I would think SageTV could as well.

[Opus4]

You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.Try using Channel Up/Down to go forward/backward in a playlist.

How retarded is that!?:bang:

There are way too many DVD playing software (apps) out there for it to be this hard to play VOB/IFO like a normal DVD, where you can backup, go forward, etc. Yet, MPEG & DIVX movies play normally. I think the software writers dropped the ball. If a $20 dollar DVD player can play the VOB/IFO file assortment correctly, then I would think SageTV could as well.An MVP natively plays the MPEG2 file format. SageTV has to transcode the DVD files for playback on the MVP; it is not using 'normal' DVD playback methods.

Full DVD playback with menus/etc, including from DVD files on a hard drive, is available in SageTV and SageTVClient. Where it isn't available is when those files have to be transcoded for the MVP/Media Extender or Placeshifter client.

- Andy

[PGPfan]

A bigger question is: does the transcoding that GBPVR uses (for example) have the same playback limitations? (anyone tried it?) We REALLY need to solve this final hurdle on the MVP. In my opininion, it doesn't have to play exactly like a DVD, just needs to pass WAF.

-PGPfan

[gplasky]

I'm with you. I don't need nor want the menus. I rip movie only. Just give it a way to start play the .vob files from the .ifo file.

Gerry

[BugMan]

An MVP natively plays the MPEG2 file format. SageTV has to transcode the DVD files for playback on the MVP; it is not using 'normal' DVD playback methods.

Full DVD playback with menus/etc, including from DVD files on a hard drive, is available in SageTV and SageTVClient. Where it isn't available is when those files have to be transcoded for the MVP/Media Extender or Placeshifter client.

- Andy
When you say natively, I'm guessing hardware. Well then, I think the media extenders should include hardware (circuitry) to be able to play VOB files natively, this hardware is very cheap these days. Anywho, VOB files can be played via the MediaMVP & SageTV, I guess, after being transcoded. If thats the case, then it is just a programming change to tell SageTV how to treat/play VOB & IFO files to be more aligned with normal DVD operation. Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.

This also starts to address the some other issues I have with the media extenders. With Gigabit home networks these days (mine included), Bandwidth is cheap. I've heard that it takes 22MBit/sec to run a DVD quality stream through the network. Obviously, 10MBit networks will have a problem, but I've already experimented with just a 100MBit network and had great results with running 3 independent streams of different movies. When I bought the MediaMVP, I thought it already had this capability. Performing a transcode will just diminish the DVD quality; not something I want. I've also experimented with wireless and running DVD quality streams. This did not turn out favorably. An 11g network was able to handle 1 stream fairly well, but had problems with 2 streams, even though the signal strength/quality was 'Very Good'. Obviously, 22MBits/sec times 2 equals 44MBits/sec, which is getting close to the 54MBits/sec bandwidth. I think a wired network is the way to go and is the reason why I wired my house.

Enough rant for now. I should would love to be on the MediaMVP strategic planning committee. Maybe I'll make my own.:D

[stanger89]

Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.

Sage can't play images (eg ISO) at all, you have to mount them with a virtual drive software and then they apprear as a normal DVD.

I've heard that it takes 22MBit/sec to run a DVD quality stream through the network.

More like 8-10Mbps

Obviously, 10MBit networks will have a problem, but I've already experimented with just a 100MBit network and had great results with running 3 independent streams of different movies. When I bought the MediaMVP, I thought it already had this capability. Performing a transcode will just diminish the DVD quality; not something I want.

AFAIK, only the audio is transcoded, because the video is already standard MPEG2.

In case you don't realize, the MediaMVP can only play back MPEG-2 video with MPEG or PCM audio, (I think it can do mp3s as well). Transcoding is not done for bandwidth constraints, it's done for compatibility purposes.

I've also experimented with wireless and running DVD quality streams. This did not turn out favorably. An 11g network was able to handle 1 stream fairly well, but had problems with 2 streams, even though the signal strength/quality was 'Very Good'.

You've just discovered that you don't get anywhere near the advertised bandwidth with wireless. With 802.11b you're lucky to get 4Mbps, and with G you're lucky to get 20. But there's also the issue of link quality/reliability. Wireless links, even those that are reported as "very good" are not very reliable. They often go up and down, drop out for moments, etc. Your web brower couldn't care less, but video is very sensitive to momentary losses/degridations in communication that are common with wireless.

Obviously, 22MBits/sec times 2 equals 44MBits/sec, which is getting close to the 54MBits/sec bandwidth. I think a wired network is the way to go and is the reason why I wired my house.

I think everyone here would agree. I know I put a Leviton distribution panel in my basement and and will have gigabit ethernet throughout the house.

Enough rant for now. I should would love to be on the MediaMVP strategic planning committee. Maybe I'll make my own.:D

The MVP is very limited hardware, and Sage is already doing more with it than about anyone else (heck they're matching or exceeding Windows Media Center Extenders at about 1/3 the cost :D).

But yes, many here are looking forward to the HD capable SageTV extender that has been hinted at. That should provide much better support, including, hopefully, full DVD playback.

[gplasky]

Anywho, VOB files can be played via the MediaMVP & SageTV, I guess, after being transcoded. If thats the case, then it is just a programming change to tell SageTV how to treat/play VOB & IFO files to be more aligned with normal DVD operation. Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.
Search the forum. Narflex already stated to be able to play them like a ripped DVD on the MVP it would require a writing a DVD navigator for the MVP-no small feat. (Unless you willing to write-it's just a programming change-right?:D )
And you don't transcode an .ISO or an .IMG file. An ISO image (.iso) is an informal term for a disk image of an ISO 9660 file system. As is typical for disk images, in addition to the data files that are contained in the ISO image, it also contains all the filesystem metadata (boot code, structures, and attributes). All of this information is contained in a single file. These properties make it an attractive alternative to physical media for the distribution of software which requires this additional information as it is simple to retrieve over the Internet.

(Wikipedia is great. :D )

Definitely looking for a HD Sage extender or a networked DVD player that could run a "Sage client".

Gerry

[BugMan]

Sage can't play images (eg ISO) at all, you have to mount them with a virtual drive software and then they appear as a normal DVD.

I'm not really sure I understand this. Fact is, the MediaMVP will play a VOB file. It just doesn't put all the VOB files together and treat it as one movie/DVD. That stinks. This sounds like a programming issue with SageTV.

Also, SageTV could play an .ISO or .IMG if it were programmed to mount the file for you and then play it like it would any other VOB file. Alcohol 120% performs this same function, there is no reason SageTV can't be programmed to do the same thing. I would be surprised if there wasn't an API, OCX, etc. written by Alcohol Soft (Alcohol 120%) or someone else for SageTV to use.

[stanger89]

I'm not really sure I understand this. Fact is, the MediaMVP will play a VOB file.

But it can't handle AC3 audio, which is present in probably 99% of VOBs.

It just doesn't put all the VOB files together and treat it as one movie/DVD. That stinks. This sounds like a programming issue with SageTV.

First off, you don't need to import VOBs, Sage can play a DVD rip just fine. However the MVP works differently because Sage streams the video to it. It has limitaions like being unable to play AC3 audio. DVDs are weird because they don't stream well since they require accessing several files simultaneously. SageTV has to work around the limitations inherent in the MVP, and like I said, Sage does more with the MVP than almost anyone out there. Is it perfect, of course not.

Also, SageTV could play an .ISO or .IMG if it were programmed to mount the file for you and then play it like it would any other VOB file.

What I said was Sage can't play ISOs, that's true, if you mount them they work like a physical DVD in a drive and Sage can play that fine. Sage can't mount ISOs. In fact, almost nothing can play ISOs directly. Not Theatertek, PowerDVD, WinDVD, Meedio, MCE....

Alcohol 120% performs this same function, there is no reason SageTV can't be programmed to do the same thing.

Well there's a lot of stuff SageTV could be programmed to do, but you have to manage scope with any project. Excessive feature creep can be the death of any software project.

[BugMan]

Well there's a lot of stuff SageTV could be programmed to do, but you have to manage scope with any project. Excessive feature creep can be the death of any software project.
Well, is there any way I can program my own features into SageTV?

[stanger89]

Sure is:
http://www.sage.tv/configuration.html
http://www.sage.tv/studio.html

[BugMan]

Where or how do I get the Studio?

[ke6guj]

Studio is included in SageTV and SageTVclient and available for usage with a registered copy of Sage. See Page 6 of the Studio PDF, http://download.sage.tv/SageTVStudio_v4_UserGuide.pdf

Crtl-shift-f12 opens Studio.

[BugMan]

But it can't handle AC3 audio, which is present in probably 99% of VOBs.

Why can't Sage handle AC3? Does the MediaMVP handle AC3?

[stanger89]

Sage can do AC3 (technically the decoders used by Sage do AC3) but the MVP decoder can't, hence the transcoding for VOBs on the MVP.

[BugMan]

Sage can do AC3 (technically the decoders used by Sage do AC3) but the MVP decoder can't, hence the transcoding for VOBs on the MVP.
What does Sage transcode AC3 into for the MediaMVP to handle? Also, don't you think the MediaMVP should be able to handle AC3, even the cheapest DVD palyers do.

[stanger89]

What does Sage transcode AC3 into for the MediaMVP to handle?

I assume MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio (MP2), the standard for MPEG files.

[BugMan]

Studio is included in SageTV and SageTVclient and available for usage with a registered copy of Sage. See Page 6 of the Studio PDF, http://download.sage.tv/SageTVStudio_v4_UserGuide.pdf

Crtl-shift-f12 opens Studio.
What license do I buy if I want to use the latest Beta 4.1.12 with 1 MediaMVP and open Studio?

[ke6guj]

You would need 1 registered copy of SageTV, http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Product_Code=STVS&Category_Code=SS, for the server and one copy of the Sage Extender client, http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Product_Code=STVCM&Category_Code=SS, for the MVP. If you buy your MVP from Sage, the Extender license is included in the package.

With the paid copy of SageTV, you would then be able to access Studio.

[Para]

What license do I buy if I want to use the latest Beta 4.1.12 with 1 MediaMVP and open Studio?
If I understand you correctly?
You can run Studio only on a computer running the server software or the client software. The MVP (STVCM - extender) licence resides on the server also but you can't use it for studio (neither through the MVP nor the placeshifter).

To use the MVP and to Program with Studio on the server you will need the SageTV Media Center (STVS - windows server) software and a Media extender licence.

If you want to program with Studio on a different (but networked) computer you can also purchase the SageTV Client (STVCS - windows client).

Hope this answers your question.

[Opus4]

Actually, you can open Studio from a Placeshifter client or Media Extender, but the Studio window will open on the server, not on the PS client's machine nor on the MVP. This is one way to be able to open multiple studio windows on a single PC. And, if the PS client is running on the server at the time, you can see the results in the PS window.

- Andy

[Para]

Actually, you can open Studio from a Placeshifter client or Media Extender, but the Studio window will open on the server, not on the PS client's machine nor on the MVP.
Thanks for the clarification Andy:)

I actually tried to open Studio on my placeshifter client computer earlier this week and placeshifter appeared to stop responding. I didn't think to check the server before forcing it to close. I probably would have noticed the Studio window.

Is it expected that the placeshifter would stop responding? If not, I'll retest and submit a report if I see it again.

[Opus4]

Is it expected that the placeshifter would stop responding? If not, I'll retest and submit a report if I see it again.Well, it would stop responding during the time Studio was opening, but it should work after Studio loads.

But I better add a couple things: I'm not sure if there are still any issues when running Studio that way, and I don't believe you can open Studio from an extender type client if you are using service mode on the server -- I don't believe it could open a Studio window.

- Andy

[BugMan]

If I understand you correctly?
You can run Studio only on a computer running the server software or the client software. The MVP (STVCM - extender) licence resides on the server also but you can't use it for studio (neither through the MVP nor the placeshifter).

To use the MVP and to Program with Studio on the server you will need the SageTV Media Center (STVS - windows server) software and a Media extender licence.

If you want to program with Studio on a different (but networked) computer you can also purchase the SageTV Client (STVCS - windows client).

Hope this answers your question.
I'm still learning all the buzzwords. So, let me see if I have this right before I buy; I have already downloaded and installed the beta SageTV Media Center 4.1.12 on the 15-day trial on my server and I already have an MVP hooked up to 1 TV (I only want to use 1 TV for now). I plan to do all the Studio work on my server. So, all I need is 1 SageTV license for $29.95.:confused:

[ke6guj]

You will need the Sage Media Center license for the server, $79.95, http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Product_Code=STVS&Category_Code=SS

And then you will need 1 extender license for the MVP, $29.95, http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Product_Code=STVCM&Category_Code=SS, that is, assuming that you did not buy your MVP from Sage, which includes an extender license with purchase.

That should be it.

[Para]

I don't believe you can open Studio from an extender type client if you are using service mode on the server -- I don't believe it could open a Studio window.
That would explain it since I run my server in service mode.

Locally starting studio on the server using the user interface works fine. It is just trying to start it from placeshifter that caused the problem. Looks like I'll work on studio locally, buy a client license, or look into using VNC or something else. Probably the extra client would be the best bet since it should not affect the servers user interface when I am using studio (got to keep the wife happy!).

[Opus4]

BTW: it was suggested that I try allowing the service to interact with the desktop. After starting the service w/that setting, an extender/placeshifter client can open a Studio window on the server. You have to enable that option in the Services manager -- run services.msc.

- Andy

[BugMan]

Well there's a lot of stuff SageTV could be programmed to do, but you have to manage scope with any project. Excessive feature creep can be the death of any software project.
Will the Studio let me program the features I want; like treat the separate VOB files in a subfolder like 1 file or, at least play them all successively without having to click on each VOB and play them 1 at a time. How low level can Studio go? I heard SageTV can interact with VB, can I use VB to program the features?

[stanger89]

Will the Studio let me program the features I want; like treat the separate VOB files in a subfolder like 1 file or, at least play them all successively without having to click on each VOB and play them 1 at a time.

That should be relatively easy to do with just studio, Sage already has playlist functionality, you could just tweak the default STV to have a "play folder" function that would just add all VOBs in a folder to the playlist and play it.

How low level can Studio go?

That's a loaded question :). Short answer is probably as low as you want. Studio, is the IDE for the SageTV interface. The entire interface, and all it's look and functionality are built with Studio.

I heard SageTV can interact with VB, can I use VB to program the features?

It can interact (via Java Native Interface) with about any language you want, VB, C, C++ for sure.
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=14013

Of course you really shouldn't need to resort to that to just play a series of VOBs.

That (modifying an STV) is probably the way to go for an MVP, since those are a little different in how they work.