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FMAX
08-24-2007, 06:39 PM
Setting up HVR-1600…
I started with a fresh install…SageTV V6.2.6 Release Candidate
Ran setup without any Capture Devices.
(most people already are using sageTV you can try this with old version,
But I think QAM scanning will only work with latest Beta.)

I went to Circuit city and bought a HVR-1600 on sale for $59
Look at box at the bar code:
WinTV-HVR-1600
Model 1178
SL-1178-V2.1-US
(V2.1 I think refers to model number “74021”)
Only Model 74021 and 74041 have QAM support!

When I opened the box the card Label:
“ATSC/NTSC/QAM
74041 LF”
I think 74041 is update to 74021…
Ok now I know this is the QAM version,
I then install the card into a PCI slot. Then I boot up the computer.
I insert the WinTV CD (V3.4D) and install the drivers from the CD.
I then install the IR and Blaster from the folder IR32 on the CD
At first hook up only the ATSC connector to your Cable.
(TIP: 1st try without any splitters and use RG6 type cable, it has a thicker center wire and less signal loss,
should be printed on cable RG6 or RG6U)
All drivers are loaded! Cabled up and ready to go!

! after reading the notes with the 6.2.5 Beta realease !
I open my SageTV root Directory (Default: C:ProgramFiles\SageTV\SageTV)
Go to “File—New—Text Document”, then rename the new document;
“QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE”

Then Open Sage TV, go to Setup , then go to Setup Video Sources.
Click on Add New Source, click Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS Capture, Digital TV Tuner,
Click Device Input to Use: Digital TV Tuner,
Use Tuner on Capture Card to Tune Cable TV,
Use US,Canada, orXMLTV Guide Data with this Source,
Cable or Satellite, (Here is where your options may differ)
Use your Zip code, (I recommend that if you use a Cable box on another Tuner,
To select a Satellite Provider or another similar Cable company in your area,
You can map the channels to the right numbers later,but this way you don’t
change any of your existing cable channel-lineups.
With QAM you basically get Locals, HD Locals and Public Channels,
no need to waste a whole lineup on a few channels.)

After it downloads the channel lineup , it will ask you to scan channels, select NO.
Then click Disable all Channels, click Scan for Available Channels…………
Go get a refreshment ………..watch another TV………..Ok done scanning.
I got 56 channels, amount found.depends on your area,

Now for Channel mapping.....see next post.

FMAX
08-24-2007, 06:45 PM
After your scan you should have a line up with numbers such as:
“85-1 - DTV85.1 - [85-0-1] VIEW REMAP”
DTV85.1
The number between the [ ] is the Physical Address.
(if you have HDHR or a QAM TV the same channel would look like “[85-212]”)
This address is on channel 85 , 0? , 1st channel found.
[85-0-2] would be channel 85 , 0? , 2nd channel found ex [85-220]
[85-0-3] would be channel 85 , 0? , 3rd channel found ex [85-221]

The best way to map a channel is to go to that channel line and click View.
See what channel it is and then click on Remap,
Click “MAP Different Station to this Physical Channel”.
Look for the call letters of the channel your looking for ex ”WFORDT”(my CBS)
(the numbers might not be the same if your using a different carrier like I suggested.)
Then you will see your channel with the call letters under the channel number.
Click on Remap again (to assign this channel to your regular Cable Channel number.)
Click “MAP to Different Logical Channel Number” ex “433”
Now I have :
“433 – WFORDT – [85-0-1] VIEW REMAP”
WFORDT (WFOR-DT) Miami

I didn’t do this with all 56 channels because I knew what each channel was.
So I only did the channels I knew I would Use.

I then hooked up the TV Tuner and set-up the Analog tuner in a few minutes.

If you have a QAM tv or HDHR, Setup of this HVR-1600 is alittle easier.
From Scratch it is some work it should take about 2 hours average, but then you have
Free Clear QAM from your basic cable including HDTV!

I hope this is Helpful to those who are stuck or are thinking about the $59-$99 dollar HVR-1600
for me its worth every penny! HDHR has an edge but its 3X the price.


GO BEARS!:thumb:

snipeman
08-24-2007, 09:04 PM
Thanks for the great summary!

farfromuman
08-26-2007, 02:55 PM
I followed the directions but 15 minutes after the start of scan I am back at the Scan for new channels - Yes or No screen - does this mean that Sage found nothing? I have Comcast and in the past have used the firewire connection to record clear channels so this would suggest that I have clear channels available.

Thanks,

Mariusz

snipeman
08-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Did you try and see if it found any channels? Hit PgUp or PgDown and see if any of the channels are enabled with green dots?

For me it failed once and I just had to restart Sage and scan again. On the 2nd try all was perfect.

bialio
08-28-2007, 09:39 AM
I got the HVR-1600 working finally with Sage. Only to decide to send it back :eek:

The picture quality for me was poor compared to the HDHR. On the SD tuner, the color was bad and the picture wasn't as sharp as the PVR-500 I have in my server. The HD tuner had lots of jumps / pixelation / random judder that I just don't get on the HDHR. Probably wouldn't bother my wife, but it bugs the h*** out of me.

btl.

kevine
08-29-2007, 08:15 AM
I got it working last night on my test box (Vista Ultimate). New server on order. Can't wait. :jump:

Anyway, I followed all the instructions above. (Thank you!) 1 problem I ran into right at the end I had scanning of NTSC side, I had to go out for a while. Came back to this done. Great. Looked at a few channels then clicked on done. Shut down Sage and changed encoder_merit properties to get 1600 QAM as highest and 1600 NTSC (tuner change channels) next highest. Ran Sage and problem displaying both tuners. Went into tuners and had to rebuild them both but then it worked.

I also had some channels in the highest priority tuner selected that had no real channels available (used DTV satallite guide). This prevented Sage from tuning 2 second highest where the channels were available. Just went in and deselected non-existent channels. That did the trick.

Very clear. Hope it continues in my server.

BTW, I also have a PVR-500 (2 tuner) and HDHR (QAMx2). I know some people have reported problems with Hauppauge cards together. No problems. The PVR-500 still has aweful reception compared to the 1600.

Again, thank you for the instructions.

sabre
08-29-2007, 02:08 PM
Is there a way to check QAM signal strength in SageTV? It tries to start at the start of scanning, but goes right away.

padre
08-29-2007, 06:36 PM
I don't think SageTV has a way of displaying the QAM signal strength. But maybe your tuner came with software that will? With my HDHR, I can use the GUI to check any channel for the QAM quality and strength, but its outside of Sage.

95TBird
08-29-2007, 08:49 PM
I just set up my new HVR-1800 & when you are in the channel setup screen Sage does in fact show the Signal Strength for the channel that you are currently viewing It's up at the top & is displayed as a green & red bar & text showing strength from 0 to 100%.

I assume the 1600 would be the same.

PS. If you are trying to tune QAM make sure you have your cable connected to the "ANT IN" Connector (The bottom one on the card) That is the input it uses for Digital Signals.

kevine
08-29-2007, 08:51 PM
I just set up my new HVR-1800 & when you are in the channel setup screen Sage does in fact show the Signal Strength. It's up at the top & is displayed as a green & red bar & text showing strength from 0 to 100%.

I assume the 1600 would be the same.

It is exactly the same. That's how mine was. 79%. I assume that is good.

kevine
08-31-2007, 05:38 PM
Anyone else install 6.2.7 RC2 and loose the tuning on their 1600. I did and when I went back to 6.2.6 it came right back. I submitted a bug report.

SprDtyF350
08-31-2007, 05:49 PM
Anyone else install 6.2.7 RC2 and loose the tuning on their 1600. I did and when I went back to 6.2.6 it came right back. I submitted a bug report.

Mine still works...

bznotins
09-01-2007, 12:00 AM
Is there a good place to find old betas? Mine worked on an older beta but not the RC2.

shadowb
09-01-2007, 04:46 PM
After getting the HDHR and playing with that I find out about this post :)

Guess I'll try the same thing with my HVR-1600. I picked up the card for OTA.
Thanks for the informative post. I'll let you guys know how it comes out.

peej9999
09-01-2007, 07:27 PM
I took the time to follow the instructions above and it worked perfectly, thanks to all for your very helpful information. My HVR-1600 picks up about 59 channels.

I do however have a question. I have a Panasonic 42" plasma with QAM built in. When I do a full station scan, I get the usual channels, plus the unencrypted QAM channels through Comcast basic service. I split the cable going in to the TV and ran the split to my HVR 1600.

Like others, I too get the VOD channels on my TV in the 81-xx, 82-xx, 87-xx, and 88-xx range. However, when I do a scan with Sage TV using my HVR 1600, it does not pick up the VOD channels in the above range. Can I manually tune these in and if so, what are the instructions? Is this what channel mapping does or am I out of luck?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

FMAX
09-01-2007, 08:53 PM
VOD channels will only show on a scan when they have a signal or active.....
(neighbor watching a VOD show)
diffrent times you'll get different numbers.
I never mapped these with 1600, but did at one time with
HDHR and removed them because when the channel was blank,
nobody watchin, it slowed everything down trying to tune a channel not there.
I think when you purchase a VOD it sends it on a random channel,
that the Company tells your reciever to tune to....
you would have to setup a VOD and then manually find it,
(this is easier with HDHR's independent software, hard in sage)

I am glad I could help a few people out with the walk thru, I had to post it,
because I was getting bits and pieces from diffrent posts.
Now I feel good for all the tips I've ripped from everyone else....

GO BEARS!:thumb:

stroths
09-02-2007, 06:00 AM
I played around with this and got some channels to show up like the music ones, but did not get it to pick up my basic ones (NBC, CBS, etc). Therefore, I went back to OTA. I'm surprised it did not pick them up as my signal strength was aroun 80%.

One interesting thing is that it picked up a Pay Per View channel somehow. I was watching the movie "Number 23" for about 15 minutes. Left the channel and could not get it to tune in again.

95TBird
09-02-2007, 08:49 PM
Yep, My HVR-1800 stopped scanning too, But I posted a Bug Report & Sage sent me a file that has fixed most of the problems. :thumb:

You can find the file posted in this thread...

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27063

bznotins
09-04-2007, 06:50 AM
Yep, My HVR-1800 stopped scanning too, But I posted a Bug Report & Sage sent me a file that has fixed most of the problems. :thumb:

You can find the file posted in this thread...

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27063

That worked perfectly for me! Thanks!

schmoppa
09-07-2007, 01:29 PM
oh man. I'm a new owner of a home-built DVR. I bought BeyondTV, hoping to get QAM service with my Hauppauge HVR-1600. Somebody in the BTV userbase valiently built a hack to get QAM working with BTV (not officially compatible for now), but limitations include not being able to watch live QAM TV, and the install for the hack is a bit arduous. Plus, you have to deal with the WinTV app, which really kindof sucks. Frustrating to use.

Also, Not sure if it's my cable signal strength (I show about 82% strength), but every 10 seconds or so my HD QAM channels get choppy (a momentary freeze, then continue). I was considering getting an amplifier to see if it perhaps the 1600 was more sensitive to "low" signal strength, even at 82%.

I have written Hauppauge asking for help, but it's been 3 days and no response. that's unfortunate.

But if SageTV can bypass WinTV AND play QAM HD video smoothly, I may have to switch over to Sage from BTV. Can't remember why I didn't choose Sage in the first place.

I'm a little concerned about what bialio said, but so far I only share the "jumps", maybe. SD on mine seems "good enough".

Anyway, thanks for this QAM HD walkthrough!

bznotins
09-07-2007, 02:49 PM
But if SageTV can bypass WinTV AND play QAM HD video smoothly, I may have to switch over to Sage from BTV. Can't remember why I didn't choose Sage in the first place.

SageTV still offers the full-featured trial period, correct? If so, just set up the latest beta (with the new .dll noted earlier in the thread) and enjoy your new QAM tuner.

Mine's working flawlessly. I quite enjoyed the Colts/Saints in HD last night!

schmoppa
09-07-2007, 03:00 PM
SageTV still offers the full-featured trial period, correct? If so, just set up the latest beta (with the new .dll noted earlier in the thread) and enjoy your new QAM tuner.

Mine's working flawlessly. I quite enjoyed the Colts/Saints in HD last night!

great! I take it you also have the HVR-1600?

Do you notice the video stuttering issue I described, or is it smooth all the time?

If you get a chance, would you mind letting me know what your average QAM signal strength is, according to the WinTV app? I would much appreciate it. Like I mentioned, I'm trying to troubleshoot my setup, and it would be great to know whether it's a too-weak signal, or the card... though, if your video is just fine at about the 80% signal quality level, I'm still not so sure that I can completely blame the physical card, as there are so many factors --- video card drivers (I have an nVidia 8600GTS), Hauppauge driver (I assume I have the latest), or weird crap that is produced by Time Warner's signal. eh. anyway, I'd love to hear what your signal strength is at, if it wouldn't be too much trouble.

Thanks!

95TBird
09-07-2007, 03:08 PM
I'm running the HVR-1800 (Same card just the PCIe version) & I'm not having any stuttering issues at all & the picture quality is Excellent :clap: . As far as signal strength, Sage shows between 96 to 100 % for all my channels.

bznotins
09-07-2007, 03:11 PM
I'll take a look at the signal strength when I get home. But if memory serves, it was only in the 75%-80% range. That was using the cable from the wall without a splitter. I have since split it twice but I was sure to detect and tune all the channels (with both WinTV and Sage) pre-split.

I get a bit of stuttering on some channels but my football was perfectly smooth last night.

I'm using an 8500GT with the latest nVidia drivers. I'm also using the latest Hauppauge drivers (yes I'm using the HVR-1600) from their site downloaded about 5-7 days ago.

I'm on Comcast cable here if that makes a difference.

What CPU do you have? I have a C2D E2140 overclocked to 2.9ghz. 2GB of RAM under XP.

schmoppa
09-07-2007, 03:19 PM
OK, so 80% signal strength can work in certain circumstances. Maybe I just need to try Sage, maybe it's the WinTV app that just kind of, well, is just kind of lacking.

I only really care about getting the major networks in HD, in addition to PBS. I don't subscribe to any other HD channels like HBO or Discovery HD.

You mentioned some channels did stutter; are any of them major networks?

Thanks! I'll post feedback once I try Sage beta. I wish I had the option of getting a refund for BTV.

bznotins
09-07-2007, 03:29 PM
I only really care about getting the major networks in HD, in addition to PBS. I don't subscribe to any other HD channels like HBO or Discovery HD.

I don't subscribe to HD at all. :P This is ClearQAM so I get the networks in HD and a bunch of other channels all for "free" (I have basic cable). That includes DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, etc, etc.

schmoppa
09-07-2007, 03:35 PM
I don't subscribe to HD at all. :P This is ClearQAM so I get the networks in HD and a bunch of other channels all for "free" (I have basic cable). That includes DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, etc, etc.

oh, right (duh).

so, you get DiscoveryHD and ESPN HD? nice. I don't think I get those.

which ones do you get that stutter?

SprDtyF350
09-07-2007, 05:19 PM
oh man. I'm a new owner of a home-built DVR. I bought BeyondTV, hoping to get QAM service with my Hauppauge HVR-1600. Somebody in the BTV userbase valiently built a hack to get QAM working with BTV (not officially compatible for now), but limitations include not being able to watch live QAM TV, and the install for the hack is a bit arduous. Plus, you have to deal with the WinTV app, which really kindof sucks. Frustrating to use.

Also, Not sure if it's my cable signal strength (I show about 82% strength), but every 10 seconds or so my HD QAM channels get choppy (a momentary freeze, then continue). I was considering getting an amplifier to see if it perhaps the 1600 was more sensitive to "low" signal strength, even at 82%.

I have written Hauppauge asking for help, but it's been 3 days and no response. that's unfortunate.

But if SageTV can bypass WinTV AND play QAM HD video smoothly, I may have to switch over to Sage from BTV. Can't remember why I didn't choose Sage in the first place.

I'm a little concerned about what bialio said, but so far I only share the "jumps", maybe. SD on mine seems "good enough".

Anyway, thanks for this QAM HD walkthrough!

I found that when using WinTv I would have to pause what I was watching for a few seconds and then it would quit stuttering. I only used it for a couple weeks until Sage added QAM support.

schmoppa
09-08-2007, 06:25 AM
Looks like there is a new release candidate, released yesterday:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27207

will this work as well as 6.2.6 for the matter at hand discussed in this thread?

95TBird
09-08-2007, 11:06 AM
Just installed 6.2.8 , then removed & re-installed my HVR-1800. I then had it scan for channels. Worked perfectly!! :clap: Did not need to do any remapping at all & it found all my available Clear QAM channels!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

rstewartmailacc
09-08-2007, 03:32 PM
Hi,

I've got the HVR-1800 also and running Windows Vista. I just downloaded and installed SageTV_V6_2_8Setup.exe to try and get QAM channels to work. Hauppauge WinTv does not work.

I'm getting everything but the QAM channels. It thinks it has them but stays on the previous channel.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

reggie14
09-09-2007, 05:00 PM
I'm having problems with QAM scanning. I just installed RC3 and am using a HVR-1600. The WinTV application manages to find a bunch of QAM channels, but Sage scans and doesn't find anything.

The first time I ran it Sage found a couple channels. I think it quit early though. I don't think it scanned up to channel 200, but maybe it just ran through them quickly. I know the WinTV application didn't find any channels until the very end of the frequency range.

I'm going to try running the scan again without the frequency cache enabled. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Update:

Sage just finished scanning, and it seemed to find everything it was supposed to. It also didn't seem to take that much longer than when the frequency cache was enabled. Did anyone else have problems with that?

bznotins
09-11-2007, 06:42 AM
oh, right (duh).

so, you get DiscoveryHD and ESPN HD? nice. I don't think I get those.

which ones do you get that stutter?

All my HD channels are coming-in without stutter. It appears that I have an intermittent stutter problem with the non-HD digital channels though (almost all of them which seems odd, I figured it would be the reverse). It could be an mpeg2 decoder issue so I might try changing off the SageTV default.

davi323
09-11-2007, 09:24 AM
I have the exact same problem Reggie has. WinTV picks up about half of my local HD stations on QAM, but not all. I tried GBPVR, which I was fairly happy with, it picked up the local QAM channels WinTV didn't, however the HD channels were really choppy, and it sometimes crashed. So, I got SageTV 2.6.8rc, after checking this forum for advice. I have gone through the steps Fmax laid out to get SageTV to receive QAM, but like you, I don't get any QAM channels through SageTV either. It picks up my analog cable channels just fine, loads the channel lineup from my cable provider, etc. But when I set up the digital tuner, it doesn't find anything, when it doesn't crash in the middle of searching. Does it matter if I have already successfully configured the NTSC tuner on the HVR-1600 as a source? The setup for that went smoothly, and it detected all the analog channels I expected it to. The original instructions don't mention whether the digital tuner has to be the only source or not.

My cable setup is a 3-way split from cable coming from wall...one goes to my actual TV (NTSC, not HD) one goes to the NTSC tuner on the back of the HVR-1600, and one goes to the ATSC tuner. I set it up as

Source: Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS Capture Digital TV tuner
Input type: Digital TV Tuner
Cable/Antenna: Cable

I disable the channels that are automatically enabled from selecting the right EPG info, then have it scan for available channels...I have run the scan 10 times, each time I pick up 0 channels. I KNOW I get QAM, as both WinTV and GBPVR find them. Its getting frustrating.

kevine
09-11-2007, 10:21 AM
Does it matter if I have already successfully configured the NTSC tuner on the HVR-1600 as a source?

This should not matter at all as I had both connected. Setup the NTSC first and it did the scan for QAM fine.

I know you may have done these but consider:
Only Model 74021 and 74041 have QAM
Are you certain you have the correct version card (74021 or 74041)?

Have you created the QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE file?

Have you tried it without splitting the cable at all?

Try to remap without scanning to see if you can get a channel.
Usually a QAM channel will be a n-n-n format. Maybe in WinTV. I am not too sure. Anyhow, on my 1600 the remap channels after scanning are:
n #1 same as other channel mappings
n #2 is ALWAYS 0 (zero)
n #3 is sequentially number for however many times n #1 appears.

For example: 94-2-1, 94-4-1, 94-5-1 would remap to 94-0-1, 94-0-2, 94-0-3.
You should attempt to remap using the physical channel number.

At least that is how it works on mine.

davi323
09-11-2007, 03:49 PM
yeah, I created a blank txt file named QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE, but the channel scan fails to detect any QAM signals from within SageTV, while it does detect using either WinTV or GBPVR. I have the 74021 model, plus the most recent drivers from Hauppauge (the correct 3.4D drivers released June 12, 2007) I know its not the HVR-1600 or the drivers, as I can get the QAM channels in other programs. There are reasons that I don't want to use either WinTV or GBPVR as my primary TV app in XP though, so if I can get SageTV to work correctly, I will probably use that, as I love the interface. (That, and being the cheap miserly guy I am, want to see if I can get my money's worth out of it)

I just think something isn't configured right, and I am not catching what it is.

jph1589
09-11-2007, 04:06 PM
yeah, I created a blank txt file named QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE, but the channel scan fails to detect any QAM signals from within SageTV, while it does detect using either WinTV or GBPVR. I have the 74021 model, plus the most recent drivers from Hauppauge (the correct 3.4D drivers released June 12, 2007) I know its not the HVR-1600 or the drivers, as I can get the QAM channels in other programs. There are reasons that I don't want to use either WinTV or GBPVR as my primary TV app in XP though, so if I can get SageTV to work correctly, I will probably use that, as I love the interface. (That, and being the cheap miserly guy I am, want to see if I can get my money's worth out of it)

I just think something isn't configured right, and I am not catching what it is.

Well you aren't alone. I have an HVR1600 #74041 and I was testing previous RC and ran through the 15 day trial, so I bought the license today and loaded the latest RC. My cable has about 50 clear qam stations that are a combination of SD and HD. WinTV can tune all of them but it has the Wintv challenges of jerkiness / poor coding / etc. My new installation of SageTV 6.2.8 only finds about 15 of the channels when it scans. I tried it with and without that text file setup and I tried it with the analog lineup and the digital lineup. I tried it with and without the analog tuner hooked up.

I am really disappointed since I was reading so many success stories, I thought it would be safe to buy this license. I also love the interface, but if it is only going to find 15 channels, that is not acceptable.

Can someone from sage publish a procedure for tuning the clear qam on this card? Do we need the text file or not? What RC should we be using? Should we be using that replacement DLL in the other thread? People are being sent in so many directions and trying so many things, it is just getting frustrating.

I fear the next step is selling my HVR1600 and buying an HDHR and going through that fiasco to set it up for SageTV. You know, not to be rude or anything, but if I wanted the nightmare of setting up MythTV in Linux, I'd be doing that. This is reminding me much to much of that experience.

Any help would be appreciated by us all.

zinfari
09-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Great write-up definately helped get me this far, but my issue is a bit different than some other folks. I have a HVR-1800 and am running 6.2.8. WinTV tunes the QAM channels fine and when I do a scan using Sagetv it finds 56 channels. When I click view in the channel setup all is well, I get the preview and sound. But when I exit channel setup and go to live TV, none of the QAM channels will tune in. It's just snow/static. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Z

DRM2PVR
09-18-2007, 01:25 AM
I could get QAM to work through the bundled WinTV application but not through my HVR1600/SageTV bundle package. I am running the HVR-1600 #74041 with the latest drivers and SageTV v 6.2.8 latest.

I fixed mine with the following:

Steps:
1. "Add New Source" / "Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS Capture" / "Digital TV Tuner"
2. "Use Tuner On Capture Card To Tune Cable TV" 3. "Use US, Canada, or XMLTV Guide Data with the source"
4a. "Over The air"
5. "San Diego Digital Broadcast"
6. "Yes Scan for all channels now" (erasing first is a good idea , less work later)
Result: (just runs through channels fast without tuning...)

Having a QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE at /Program files/SageTV/SageTV/QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE can cause the tuner not to tune in any channels. This is apperent durring channel detection if its just spinning up through channels instead of a second on each one. Deleting this file fixed mine.

This thread caught my eye too for those with continuing issues:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27063

Short Version:
a fix for the QAM tuning bug for 6.2.7rc2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------Linux update:
http://download.sage.tv/users/qian/libDVBCapture.so
http://download.sage.tv/users/qian/libTSnative.so

Windows update:
http://download.sage.tv/users/qian/DShowCapture.dll


Also check this other post for how to map after you get the above fixed
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=238362#post238362

visiontim
09-19-2007, 12:29 PM
Does this work with the latest release, 6.2.10 I think?

DRM2PVR
09-19-2007, 02:55 PM
I think all this is working as it should in 6.2.8 and up without any modifications to the base install. There is an excrutiatingly long wait during the channel dectection process for it to find all the QAM channels though... at least it was on my side as all the channels were found very high in the channel range but nothing before hand.

kevine
09-20-2007, 06:46 AM
I just downloaded the latest drivers from Hauppauge and now it crashes SageTV. I had to remove it as a source. It was that bad. At the time I was playing around with different decoders but I do not think that is the problem. Others work including the HDHR. I just saw another post of someone reporting this. I will try and get him to post here. I may have to try rolling back the drivers.

I also had debugging enabled by chance. I have attached the file and it clearly stops each time at the last line.

I will submit a trouble ticket after a little more investigation.

Anyone else?

95TBird
09-23-2007, 03:33 PM
Which "Latest Drivers" did you install ??

I've been running the 3.4d1 drivers (Posted June 12 07) with my 1800 & am not having any problems. (This appears to be the latest drivers that are posted for the 1600 too)

Note: It's VERY important that you follow step 2 of their instructions when installing new drivers !!

Step 2 - Remove the previous software version (if necessary)
If you had previously installed the WinTV-PVR-1600 in your PC, browse to the folder you just extracted to (e.g. through My Computer) and locate a file called hcwclear.exe
Run HCWCLEAR.EXE and choose the options Remove All WinTV Drivers and Applications (Total Removal) and Search All .INF Files for Conflicting Hardware.
Note: wait until the black box has disappeared of its own accord before proceeding

sabre
09-24-2007, 08:43 AM
I was able to get the 1600 to find open HD channels. But here is my issue. CBS-HD and ABC-HD come in great on my 1600, but NBC and FOX both struggle, most times only getting some audio or some garbled video.

Now my QAM tuner on the Panny TV gets all the HD channels fine.

I recently re-built my system for HD (E4300@2500MHz, 2GB RAM, 8500GT), and since ABC and CBS are fine, I dont think it is a hardware issue for FOX and NBC.

Also, i recently added a powered splitter where the cable comes in, and I also removed all splitters and ran outside cable straight to the 1600 for the strongest signal, and i get the same result on FOX and NBC no matter if split or not (that tells me it may not be the signal).

So, I am left to believe it is the 1600 somehow not being able to get FOX and NBC for some reason. The signal should be strong enough, I have the hardware, and I know they are open since the QAM on my TV gets them (no cable box in between). Any thoughts?

visiontim
09-24-2007, 09:45 AM
OK, I got this to work but struggled with the remapping. Let me help you so you don't waste time like I did.


Setup the regular cable tuner first.

Now setup your QAM tuner.

Choose a different, but close program guide for your QAM tuner. Do not choose the guide that you use for your standard channels! For example, if you subscribe to premium cable, choose basic for your QAM.

Scan for channels.

View the channels found and write down what they are (just the ones you want to watch/use though).

Remap to physical channel. Search through and find the call sign for that channel and select it. Write down the channel number they display too.

Remap to logical channel number. Use the channel number you wrote down in the last step.

Last and the most important step that kept screwing me up...

Go to the channel setup of your regular cable tuner and deselect the channel that you are going to watch digital version of. For example, deselect ABC, NBC and CBS.

What this last step does is it allows your remapped channels to show up in the guide and replaces the standard def versions. This way when you go to watch NBC, you'll get the HD version through your QAM tuner.

I hope this helps because while the directions posted at the top of this thread were helpful, the last step kept screwing me up because I just didn't think to do this.

kevine
09-24-2007, 10:23 AM
I had the latest and did what you said but now I get NO channels. Maybe because when I go into a channel I used to get and try to view it I get this error: "Watch request failed. ERROR (-12): There was a null object requested to playback", I press OK. Just in time for the Fall season.:(

Not sure if this is relevant but I am using DirecTV EPG for cable. Also, I have a PVR-500 and HDHR installed as my config shows.

gplasky
09-25-2007, 01:45 PM
I had the latest and did what you said but now I get NO channels. Maybe because when I go into a channel I used to get and try to view it I get this error: "Watch request failed. ERROR (-12): There was a null object requested to playback", I press OK. Just in time for the Fall season.:(

Not sure if this is relevant but I am using DirecTV EPG for cable. Also, I have a PVR-500 and HDHR installed as my config shows.

DirectTV is satellite. Is that going to work? I think you need to find another neighboring zip code with the same cable company and stations/channels.


Gerry

kevine
09-26-2007, 08:25 AM
DirectTV is satellite. Is that going to work? I think you need to find another neighboring zip code with the same cable company and stations/channels.


Gerry

I have no more. When I choose my cable provider and a different zip code, it gives me the same EPG. Then I disable them, run my scan only to find out I have messed up another tuner. This is very frustrating.

Not to mention, making it the correct EPG Digital still did not work. Same channels. Now down to 6.

kevine
09-27-2007, 06:33 AM
Anyone else getting signifigantly less QAM channels with the 1600 vs. the HDHR?

I have the 21 version. The cable source for both is from the same distribution splitter. Not only that but Sage reports 100% signal strength on the channels I do get.

gatorwes
09-27-2007, 07:42 PM
Long time Sage user, but entirely confused/frustrated about QAM support with the 1600 in Sage TV v6.2.10.

I can get several clear QAM stations via Happauge's WinTV 2000 app. I cannot get Sage to find most of those stations despite repeated attempts. Signal strength in WinTV seems OK (~75%). I followed the explicit directions on the Happauge site for installation of the 1600.

I selected a different cable source for the digital tuner as per the recommendations herein (Cox analog for the analog tuner, Cox digital for the digital tuner).

Is there a relationship between the EPG selected and how Sage scans for digital channels? Or more specifically does Sage need a certain EPG selection to look in the "right place" for QAM channels? I ask because in my experimentation it appeared that the length of time of the search and the number of channels Sage searched changed (dramatically) as I changed the EPG selection. Any other ideas or pointers?

Also/or, is there a way to manually add the channels that WinTV can "see" to Sage? The option seems available in Sage, but I have not been succesful in doing so. Can anyone translate the channel description from WinTv to Sage's format?

Advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Wes Simmons

gatorwes
09-29-2007, 06:43 AM
After Sage found a few channels, I was able to manually add the missing stations to Sage. But, in general, the resulting video on a poweful client machine stutters and the client eventually crashes with a black screen. Is this a signal strength issue? I fed the Sage server box with the cable source as it enters the house and got only a slightly stronger signal (according to WinTV 2000). Also, watched TV using the cable normally feeding the Sage server box with no issues. If it is a signal strength issue it seems only Sage is affected. Would a signal booster provide any help? Other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

SprDtyF350
09-29-2007, 08:55 AM
After Sage found a few channels, I was able to manually add the missing stations to Sage. But, in general, the resulting video on a poweful client machine stutters and the client eventually crashes with a black screen. Is this a signal strength issue? I fed the Sage server box with the cable source as it enters the house and got only a slightly stronger signal (according to WinTV 2000). Also, watched TV using the cable normally feeding the Sage server box with no issues. If it is a signal strength issue it seems only Sage is affected. Would a signal booster provide any help? Other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Might want to try using the Nvidia decoder and overlay for playback. I get stuttering, and high cpu usage with the Sage decoder and VMR9.

kevine
10-01-2007, 08:12 AM
Anyone else getting signifigantly less QAM channels with the 1600 vs. the HDHR?

I have the 21 version. The cable source for both is from the same distribution splitter. Not only that but Sage reports 100% signal strength on the channels I do get.

Anyone have these issues above? I have started a support request from Happuauge but gotten no where right now. They wanted me to check with my cable provider. I explained that I have the same cable provider they have in Hauppauge, NY. I also get all of these channels QAM on the HDHR.

It may have something to do with the 6.2 release because I did not have this problem with an earlier build.

However, it could be the 1600 drivers because I have reinstalled them as well. I can reinstall a third time but I also have a PVR-500. So ever time I run the HCWCLEAR it clears my 500 drivers as well.

kevine
10-02-2007, 05:52 AM
I was given the 4.0 driver set from Hauppauge and it seems better but still only detects about 7 stations. It think if I put them in manually they may work. I just have to figure out what the manual channels are. :bang:

Stuntman
10-03-2007, 10:43 AM
I recently acquired a HVR-1600, but found that it was the 'Non-QAM' model 74551.. not giving up, I wrote Hauppauge to ask about it and to ask whether or not it would EVER support QAM.. here is what I got as a reply.. can anybody confirm or deny their reply????


---------
From: Hauppauge Support


The 74551 is the MCE version of the 1600. Because Microsoft does not
currently support QAM in Media Center we do not list the MCE version of the
1600 supporting QAM to avoid confusion on the part of the customer but it
should do clear QAM if you are using the WinTV application.

FMAX
10-03-2007, 02:00 PM
I started this thread to help everyone,

Post #2
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=235548&postcount=2

is a good start, everybody has diffrent setups so modification is always needed. Using a Satellite Line-up is OK! you need to match Channel Call letters ((WFORDT) is my Local CBS High Def Brodcast Channel.)
On my cable service this is broadcasted on channel 433.
on DirectTV it is on 980. My 1600 number is 85-0-1.

using direct tv listing go to (980) Remap Station to diffrent Physical Channel(85-0-1)
*you can leave it this way if you want to be able select which tuner to record or watch from...(980) would then be listed and you know that it is the 1600 QAM...
or you can Remap to Different Logical Channel Number(433) to match your other cable lineups.

“433 – WFORDT – [85-0-1] VIEW REMAP”
WFORDT (WFOR-DT) Miami

I prefer to use satellite lineups, because local channel SD numbers usually match cable channels, just the HD and PBS channels need to REmap Logical channel numbers.

Patience is the best tool, don't be afraid to take notes! re-read my first 2 posts. and a little sweat now will pay-off later...once you get this down you'll see it is not that complicated. I also was getting fustrated, there was no sucessful walk-thru when I started. I had to piece it all together from scratch, so I know. Good Luck:p

FMAX
10-03-2007, 02:24 PM
There are alot of factors when your talking about signal strength.

My samsung tv pulled in all channels without any booster.

my 1600 not squat, and HDHR only half.

installed a good quality booster (PHILLIPS HD 4way) from circuit city.
along with a good quality 4 way splitter for analog....

Now ther is Peace in the world.

Sage is a 3rd party to Haupaugge so WinTV is expected to work better with their own products. but sage does work you might have a borderline low signal, where WinTV shows more than Sage TV. I had same problem at first.

Make sure any jumpers are as short as possible (not too short!) just what is needed, and that they are RG6 type (thicker center wire!)
I have a 4inch jumper going to my Splitter and then the other cables are just what i need to run to tuners and still keep cables neat and hidden.

Don't use a 30' cable to run 3' of distance....

Signal quality is a funny thing, you can't really measure it with any software, because there is too much variance. just make sure you do all that you can to make the clearest path possible.

Have Fun! just a note......I have a good friend that installs home theater equipment, The Kaleidescape System and all that stuff. the latest one he sold, the DVD server alonle was over $40k.
This system is nowhere near that quality, but for the $500-700 dollars spent
with hardware and etc. You get ALOT of bank for the $$$$.
and in some ways (placeshifter, customizations, expandability....) this system is better. I merged a picture of my son on a toy plane into the main background,it shows on all my TV's and placeshifter.I get WOW's and HOWD YA DO THAT. all the time.

Once you get things running , you can keep it solid running, by never touching it again. But you also have the option to upgrade to what ever the new technology is for low $, maybee a little work.

That was a little message for those getting discouraged Sage TV is the most stable user friendly software out there! and Hauppauge has always put out the hardware that is reliable.

NOW Where's my HD Media Extender!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

morfinx
10-09-2007, 10:12 PM
6 hrs later, I think I finally got the whole QAM channel remapping thing under control :D Thanks guys! Got NBC, CBS, and ABC, which is pretty much all I really want. For some reason I couldn't find FOX though :confused:

SprDtyF350
10-09-2007, 10:25 PM
6 hrs later, I think I finally got the whole QAM channel remapping thing under control :D Thanks guys! Got NBC, CBS, and ABC, which is pretty much all I really want. For some reason I couldn't find FOX for some reason though :confused:

I have the same problem here in the Washington DC area. I can get ABC, NBC, CBS, and some others but cannot get FOX.

Weird...

morfinx
10-09-2007, 10:38 PM
I have the same problem here in the Washington DC area. I can get ABC, NBC, CBS, and some others but cannot get FOX.

Weird...

Yeah very strange. I'm in the Boston area.

BtotheD
10-10-2007, 05:48 PM
I read the first post to this thread and searched a bit, but couldn't find anything....

I'm running an Aver 780 that's supposed to do QAM, the basic analog Comcast cable package and the latest version of Sage (6.2.10). When I use AVer's software, it find 53 stations without much work (scanning takes 15min) and they look HD good, so I'm definitely getting the digital QAM through the card. When I try the technique described in the first post, Sage finds nothing. I think Comcast has the digital QAM stations set at like channel 231-240ish, and Sage seems to stop at 200 :confused:

In summary: AVer 780 getting QAM signal, but Sage cannot find the stations.

Anyone have any ideas???

SprDtyF350
10-10-2007, 06:19 PM
I read the first post to this thread and searched a bit, but couldn't find anything....

I'm running an Aver 780 that's supposed to do QAM, the basic analog Comcast cable package and the latest version of Sage (6.2.10). When I use AVer's software, it find 53 stations without much work (scanning takes 15min) and they look HD good, so I'm definitely getting the digital QAM through the card. When I try the technique described in the first post, Sage finds nothing. I think Comcast has the digital QAM stations set at like channel 231-240ish, and Sage seems to stop at 200 :confused:

In summary: AVer 780 getting QAM signal, but Sage cannot find the stations.

Anyone have any ideas???

Are you running Vista? The Sage page that shows that card as supported says only with Vista. Just a thought..

BtotheD
10-10-2007, 07:17 PM
Nope, XP pro. not MCE.

BtotheD
10-10-2007, 08:24 PM
Oops...misread that.... yeah, I'm not running vista ... I'll look into that. Everything else works fine ... SD, analog .... and has for quite some time.

morfinx
10-10-2007, 08:29 PM
I have the same problem here in the Washington DC area. I can get ABC, NBC, CBS, and some others but cannot get FOX.

Weird...

After talking with some folks on AVS Forum who are in the same area as me, I manually entered a channel for FOX HD and it worked. I don't know why the channel scan didn't pick it up though :confused:

SprDtyF350
10-10-2007, 09:12 PM
After talking with some folks on AVS Forum who are in the same area as me, I manually entered a channel for FOX HD and it worked. I don't know why the channel scan didn't pick it up though :confused:

Yep, I have tried that.. My FOX channel comes in at 132-3 on my TV's QAM tuner. I can't get the HVR-1600 to tune to that with any program I have tried. Would be nice though...

Stuntman
10-11-2007, 10:00 AM
I recently acquired a HVR-1600, but found that it was the 'Non-QAM' model 74551.. not giving up, I wrote Hauppauge to ask about it and to ask whether or not it would EVER support QAM.. here is what I got as a reply.. can anybody confirm or deny their reply????


---------
From: Hauppauge Support


The 74551 is the MCE version of the 1600. Because Microsoft does not
currently support QAM in Media Center we do not list the MCE version of the
1600 supporting QAM to avoid confusion on the part of the customer but it
should do clear QAM if you are using the WinTV application.

As a follow up.. the 74551 DOES work with QAM, even though it isn't marketed to do so.. :)

FMAX
10-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Yep, I have tried that.. My FOX channel comes in at 132-3 on my TV's QAM tuner. I can't get the HVR-1600 to tune to that with any program I have tried. Would be nice though...
SprDty:
try 132-0-1,132-02, or 132-0-3
in my earlier posts the physical numbers on 1600, don't match other Qam devices.
132-3 on my Samsung & HDHR, would depend on how many subchannels are on channel 132.
on your TV if you have 132-1, 132-2, 132-3,
then 132-3 would translate to 1600 as 132(Channel)-0-3(3rd sub channel)

re-check my 2nd post on 1st page.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=235548&postcount=2

HTPCBoy
10-17-2007, 10:05 PM
My house is such that I can't receive OTA very well, so I have downloaded Sage Trial to see if I can get QAM to work. I have Time Warner (digital, still with HDTV option until I can confirm this works).

I have dual Hauppauge 1600 combo tuners and they have the option for Clear QAM in the WinTV software, but I can't seem to get any of the channels in Wintv or Sage to show up. Has anyone else had this problem. Could Austin simply not be broadcasting clear QAM? If that is so, why would it find channels and say they have signal strength?

Very confused ... any help would be much appreciated. I'm thinking about booting HTPC for set top box until it gets easier (wahhh!)

morfinx
10-17-2007, 10:46 PM
My house is such that I can't receive OTA very well, so I have downloaded Sage Trial to see if I can get QAM to work. I have Time Warner (digital, still with HDTV option until I can confirm this works).

I have dual Hauppauge 1600 combo tuners and they have the option for Clear QAM in the WinTV software, but I can't seem to get any of the channels in Wintv or Sage to show up. Has anyone else had this problem. Could Austin simply not be broadcasting clear QAM? If that is so, why would it find channels and say they have signal strength?

Very confused ... any help would be much appreciated. I'm thinking about booting HTPC for set top box until it gets easier (wahhh!)

Have you tried all of the suggestions in this thread already?

You may also want to checkout this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=336964

srothwell
10-18-2007, 01:41 PM
So i picked up two 1600's today from Circuit City.

I'm a little scared to open them. It says 74021 LF on the picture of the card. No where on the card does it say QAM. In fact, it specifically says "Analog Cable".

What's up? I thought the 74021 did QAM. Is the "LF" something to worry about?

kevine
10-18-2007, 02:08 PM
So i picked up two 1600's today from Circuit City.

I'm a little scared to open them. It says 74021 LF on the picture of the card. No where on the card does it say QAM. In fact, it specifically says "Analog Cable".

What's up? I thought the 74021 did QAM. Is the "LF" something to worry about?

First the 74021 is the model that does QAM. That is the model I have. Do not worry about the "LF". If you notice in the first post of this thread FMAX had the "LF" as well and his is working too. Granted he had the 74041. Both do QAM.

Second, even if it does not work, you an return it to CC for full refund. Just make sure it is within the period for returns.

74551 is the model that reportedly does not do QAM but someone here reported it did anyway. :confused:

SprDtyF350
10-18-2007, 03:22 PM
SprDty:
try 132-0-1,132-02, or 132-0-3
in my earlier posts the physical numbers on 1600, don't match other Qam devices.
132-3 on my Samsung & HDHR, would depend on how many subchannels are on channel 132.
on your TV if you have 132-1, 132-2, 132-3,
then 132-3 would translate to 1600 as 132(Channel)-0-3(3rd sub channel)

re-check my 2nd post on 1st page.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=235548&postcount=2

Appreciate the info but I think it has more to do with Sage not scanning past 125. Just for fun I installed GB-PVR and I am watching the channel I spoke of right now using GB-PVR. It scans to 138, and finds it no problem. I have tried to map the channel in Sage to 132-all kind of things. No go.. I don't really understand all this stuff real well but I do know that GB-PVR finds the channel at 132 and lets me attach the guide data that belongs to 5-1 with it. Sage doesn't.
Thanks, Randy

HTPCBoy
10-18-2007, 05:22 PM
OK - I think I have everything setup - I see all basic channels and all QAM channels, except for one: CBS (Keyedt for anyone in austin). Anyway ... when I am in setup and mapping the channels, this channel shows up clear as day (it's the only one at 100%, for that matter), but when I finish setup and go back to live tv it isn't showing up?!? I thought maybe it had to do with this channel (Keye 82.2) being one point above abc (Kvue 82.1) and having a conflict, but this doesn't seem to be a problem for my FOX and NBC channels. I looked through this thread but didn't see any similar issues. Sorry if this is repeat question ... any thoughts?

morfinx
10-18-2007, 07:31 PM
OK - I think I have everything setup - I see all basic channels and all QAM channels, except for one: CBS (Keyedt for anyone in austin). Anyway ... when I am in setup and mapping the channels, this channel shows up clear as day (it's the only one at 100%, for that matter), but when I finish setup and go back to live tv it isn't showing up?!? I thought maybe it had to do with this channel (Keye 82.2) being one point above abc (Kvue 82.1) and having a conflict, but this doesn't seem to be a problem for my FOX and NBC channels. I looked through this thread but didn't see any similar issues. Sorry if this is repeat question ... any thoughts?

When you say it doesn't show, what do you get? No Signal? Blank screen?

srothwell
10-21-2007, 11:00 AM
This is what frustrates me to no end!

So I buy a 1600, and it's the one with QAM becuase it works with Hauppauge's software.

When I click on Digital TV Tuner in sage, I get the following error, immediately:

There was a Capture Error in playback. Details: ERROR (-3x80070003); There was a problem accessing the filesystem for capture.

Can anyone please help with this?

Thanks!

gplasky
10-23-2007, 11:49 AM
Looks like you're trying to record to a network drive where that user doesn't have rights to write to the drive. Double-check how you're sharing the drive and make sure that user exists on the machine with the network drive.

Gerry

kevine
10-29-2007, 08:48 AM
I have had this issue since receiving the 1600. NTSC tuner works fine. QAM is another story. I have tried all the suggestions here on the forum. I do not know if it is cable, Sage or Hauppauge's problem. What I am looking for is a suggestion of what to do next. I hope you fine people can help me.

WinTV brings in most of the expected QAM but the picture staying together is not consistent. Going through Sage it is even worse times 10. I scan the channels but do not get a consistent set with each scan. Comes and goes. Latest gave me no channels found out of 35-40.

I have a HDHR that I love and get all the QAM channels I could possibly expect from QAM with a rare stutter in the recording. That is what is troubling me about the problems with the 1600. I imagine it does not pull in the weak signal as well as the HDHR.

I have logged a problem with Hauppauge. They claim it is cable. I was thinking of asking for a RMA.

I have had cable out, they say the signal is fine. I was thinking of having them come out again because I do get broken reception on the STB out of the SVideo to Sage.

A bit about my cable run... It comes in to the house and goes about 20-30 feet to my a room where my server is. It splits into 2 there 1 cable modem and the other into a 1x8 distribution splitter. 7 are used for my tuners. The last is terminated properly. I use all RG6 cables.

Just FYI: It is not possible to move the server closer or put an amplifier at the enter point because it is in a drop ceiling and there is no electric. It would look horrible coming out of the drop ceiling there anyway. It is a highly visible area.

Djc208
10-29-2007, 09:25 AM
Why not put the amplifier at the server, I imagine you have power there and the cable is already split. Either an in-line amp on the line going to the 1x8 or (if you get a good enough cable amp) then you could even look into a 1x2 amplifier to replace the split for the cable modem/1x8.

Unless there is something wrong with the 20-30 foot run from the entrance (in which case replacing that run is your best bet), it shouldn't matter if you amp it at the entrance or at the end.
Just pick an amplifier carefully, with digital and internet a cheap splitter won't usually have the bandwith to amplify the whole signal, and could interefere with portions of it.

kevine
10-29-2007, 09:34 AM
Why not put the amplifier at the server, I imagine you have power there and the cable is already split. Either an in-line amp on the line going to the 1x8 or (if you get a good enough cable amp) then you could even look into a 1x2 amplifier to replace the split for the cable modem/1x8.

Unless there is something wrong with the 20-30 foot run from the entrance (in which case replacing that run is your best bet), it shouldn't matter if you amp it at the entrance or at the end.
Just pick an amplifier carefully, with digital and internet a cheap splitter won't usually have the bandwith to amplify the whole signal, and could interefere with portions of it.

I should mention that I have already connected the cable directly to the 1600, no internet, and still only get a few channels in Sage. Therefore, I don't think the 1x2 would help and I have already thrown $100 at the problem with the distribution splitter.

Conejo
10-29-2007, 11:43 AM
If your cable modem is functioning it's hard to believe that you don't have enough signal strength to distribute to your cards. It's also possible that you're overdriving and distorting the signal with the power amplifier.

I suggest you stick to WinTV for testing since that program is a bit more robust, and once it's working well there then move on to Sage.

You may have to test combinations: (1600 as only device on cable; shared with Cable Modem; amplifier in-line; 2x splitter; 8x splitter; etc). It's possible that the 1600/1800 cards are sensitive to a particular signal level.

What's the signal level and SNR on your cable modem?

kevine
10-29-2007, 11:51 AM
If your cable modem is functioning it's hard to believe that you don't have enough signal strength to distribute to your cards. It's also possible that you're overdriving and distorting the signal with the power amplifier.

So you are saying too much amplification. Correct? I had thought that too. Maybe try splitting the cable several times before going into the the 1600?

What's the signal level and SNR on your cable modem?

Not sure where to test this and I am pretty technically inclined. :confused:

Thanks.

Conejo
10-29-2007, 12:25 PM
Were trying not to make this too difficult -- there are many possible directions to go off here. I don't want to waste your time doing diagnostics in areas that don't have issues.

#1
It would be nice to know what signal and signal-to-noise-ratio the Cable Company is delivering to you before you head off into splitters. Since the Cable Company usually wants your DOCSYS Cable Modem as the FIRST DEVICE on the line (prior to any amplifiers or major splitters), I like to take the readings off that device.

What type of Cable Modem do you have (Make/Model)? You can usually URL into the thing and look at a diagnostics page. If I know the model I can usually Google the URL.

#2
What is the signal level of your HDHR (as seen in 'HomeRun Config GUI') and how is the picture quality. If these are OK, especially with all the splitters necessary to run all your devices in place, then it's probably NOT a signal level issue.

#3
When you are viewing the 1600 through WinTV, what's your processor load percentage (in 'TaskManager/Performance', or through 'Administrative Tools > Performance [system monitor])?

#4
If #2 and #3 checks out, and the HDHRs are great, have you tried unloading, running hcwclear, and reinstalling your Hauppauge Drivers?

bznotins
10-29-2007, 12:25 PM
FWIW, I'm having this exact problem with my HVR-1600 as well. Discussed here (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27939).

Amplifying the signal did make things look better on my regular TV but did nothing for the QAM tuning on my HTPC.

I'm tempted to write off the 1600 and just go with ATi's new combo tuner when it hits the shelves (and when SageTV supports it, of course).

Yooper
10-29-2007, 12:41 PM
Whenever you get into the video amplifier business your really need to estimate the losses in your cable.

At my house I have 137 of RG11 cable to the outside box (3.5 db loss) and then 59 ft. of RG6 to my distribution panel (2.4 dB loss) and then 32 feet to my TV (1.3 dB loss). This gives me 7.2 dB total - I put a 7 dB amplifier with 4 outputs.

My video server is next to the distribution panel - I've got that connected to an 8 output amplifier with 3 dB amplification - not enough to compensate for the total loss but enough to do the job.

My internet is connected thru the 7 dB amplifier - it is bidirectional.

Notice that I have no splitters anywhere.

I have used the Monster splitters in the past - they have less losses but cost a lot more.

I recommend that you measure your line lengths and use amplifiers that compensate as close as possible to your losses.

Even more ideal would be to borrow a "strength" meter that measures the signal strength coming into your house.

I'm not sure if the amplifier does anything with the digital signals - I don't notice anything. Does anyone know?

Conejo
10-29-2007, 01:17 PM
I'm not sure if the amplifier does anything with the digital signals - I don't notice anything. Does anyone know?

Great feedback Yooper.

To answer your question, digital signals have a very harsh cut-off level, so they either cannot be decoded or they can. Because HDTV is based on TIME and DATA, when the signal level drops below a certain point you loose data integrity and the processor misinterprets or can't reconstruct the frame and you get artifacts or the decoders stop processing until a valid signal is restored.

Generally, using a good 'digitally rated' amplifier is good if you need it. Using an 'analog' amplifier would probably induce signal distortion and cause the digital data to morph into unrecognizable pattern. Amplifying a digital signal can cause the square-wave pattern to have its corners knocked off, causing the data to change and be subject to misinterpretation.

http://homepages.ius.edu/jfdoyle/b438/html/Chapter%202_files/ch2_20.jpg

Not a pretty picture, especially if your favorite program gets garbled. (Illustration courtesy of some Indiana University Southeast student who didn't copyright his pages in 2005)

If the above illustrated example was a Quadrature Signal (8 steps instead of 1) that would be one messed up data frame.

Yooper
10-29-2007, 08:20 PM
Nice figures Conejo... That helps a lot.

Any idea how the digital signal strength is determined?

I have not seen any digital ratings on the video amps I've looked at.

Any idea where to go for these?

kevine
10-31-2007, 06:26 AM
I think I have my problem solved. There was a LOT of trial an error with cables and splitters. Turns out that I think my 1x8 distribution amp really can't handle 7 or 8. I used the HDHR signal meter to do move cables around and replace cables until I got a good signal from at least my 3 QAM tuners with good levels. I also reinstalled the drivers for the 1600.

I also was able to get into my cable modem and see that my signal was excellent even out of the 1x2 splitter. The downstream SNR was 36db. I hear that it should be above 30db for a good signal.

Now when I scanned the channels in Sage, I still got none found. However, I put the remap in and it worked for all so far. I am not done remapping because I did not have time but it was definitely encouraging. :clap:

Conejo
10-31-2007, 03:22 PM
I have not seen any digital ratings on the video amps I've looked at.
Any idea where to go for these?

When I looked for Inline RF Amplifiers (and splitters) I wanted something that worked with Cable Modems and Digital STBs, meaning that it they had to pass 900Mhz, induced LOW NOISE and allow bidirectional communications. DSL REPORTS (Cable Tech)) (http://www.dslreports.com/faq/cabletech) has a great section on cable wiring and requirements, descriptions, diagnostics and suggestions.

The house here has been remodeled with additions and has hidden splitters on the cable so I decided to use a Motorola Signal Booster Drop Amp. The STB's now work with On-Demand and my HDHR is happy.

Conejo
10-31-2007, 03:25 PM
I also reinstalled the drivers for the 1600. [...]

Now when I scanned the channels in Sage, I still got none found. However, I put the remap in and it worked for all so far. I am not done remapping because I did not have time but it was definitely encouraging. :clap:

Don't forget that you need to erase (I would rename) the .frq file and create a blank in order for the SageTV scan to do its thing with the HRV-1600/1800.

kevine
10-31-2007, 03:46 PM
Don't forget that you need to erase (I would rename) the .frq file and create a blank in order for the SageTV scan to do its thing with the HRV-1600/1800.
I did rename it but I did not know you needed to create a blank 1.

Yooper
11-01-2007, 05:18 AM
My house was originally wired with all RG59 cable - including the underground leg. I put in new boxes and ran quad shield solid copper RG6 to all boxes. I also added cat6 internet cable at the same time for a gigabit network. I replaced the cable rat nest in the joists in the basement with a distribution panel for both video and internet. I built a desktop out of plywood for a gateway server and also a video server. Finally, I convinced the cable company to run two RG11 underground feed cables to the outside box and I replaced the RG59 line from the outside box to the distribution panel with RG6.

The original RG59 cable was poor and produced not only a poor video signal but also a marginal internet modem signal.

With the amplifiers and my tweaking I now get a video signal (even analog) that will knock your socks off. A big improvement over the original.

The improvements happened mostly incrementally - not at one time.

Of course, I'm always tweaking it and adding new features - it never sits static for very long. That's actually the fun part.

stewart710
11-03-2007, 09:34 AM
I just wanted to add my $0.02. I was having no luck getting a clear, non-stuttering picture out of the digital tuner of my HVR-1600. I purchased a used Electroline EDA-2100 (one port amp) drop amp on Ebay for less than $15 shipped and I now get every channel that I am supposed to. I also changed out one 18 gauge cable for a 16 gauge cable. I now have a 2 way splitter at the entry point of the comcast line. One part goes to the amp and the other to the cable modem. I don't split the signal after the amp, but if you needed to you could substitute a 2 port or 4 port amp by the same manufacturer. These amps are the same things that Comcast uses. If you buy one on Ebay double check that it comes with the DC power supply and don't forget to ground the amp!

tommyjwall
11-04-2007, 04:35 PM
I'm upgrading from a PVR-150 to a HVR-1600, and I'm stuck on a step that I thought would be easy, but for some reason nothing I do can get me past it. I'm on the step when I select 'Digital TV Tuner' when setting up my video sources, and Sage crashes on me. I've tried running the HCWCLEAR.EXE, rebooting, and installing the new drivers from Hauppauge's website. I've also uninstalled and reinstalled java just to make sure. I'm willing to uninstall and reinstall Sage, but I don't want to have to re-customize it. This is the error message I receive in the log:

# An unexpected error has been detected by Java Runtime Environment:
#
# EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION (0xc0000005) at pc=0x054f6439, pid=3216, tid=2932
#
# Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (1.6.0_03-b05 mixed mode, sharing)
# Problematic frame:
# C [DShowCapture.dll+0x16439]

P.S. I'm kind of a noob, so be gentle. Thanks for your help!

kruzerman
11-10-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm upgrading from a PVR-150 to a HVR-1600, and I'm stuck on a step that I thought would be easy, but for some reason nothing I do can get me past it. I'm on the step when I select 'Digital TV Tuner' when setting up my video sources, and Sage crashes on me. I've tried running the HCWCLEAR.EXE, rebooting, and installing the new drivers from Hauppauge's website. I've also uninstalled and reinstalled java just to make sure. I'm willing to uninstall and reinstall Sage, but I don't want to have to re-customize it.

If you back up your wiz.bin file you will still have to do some customization to get Sage back to what you like but you should at least be able to retain your favorites and watched status. Backing up your sage.properties file will save the customizations but it could be what is causing your problem. What version of Sage are you using?

kruzerman
11-10-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm completely frustrated with the 1600 and QAM as well. First, i had to boost the signal to pick up any signal and now sage is showing my signal at 100%. When i go to scan channels, I am not able to pick up the same channels on back to back scans. These are also different from the channels i picked up last night. I can't believe that I am only getting 11-20 channels per scan. Each scan lasts about 40 minutes. I have a few splits in the line but the channels i do get come in well with no dropouts. The stuttering i am seeing i believe is related to my pc setup. Has anyone else been able to get a system with the following specs to work?

AMD Athlon XP 3000
ASUS A7N8X-E
1 GB DDR400 RAM
350 watt fortron PS
Gigabyte fanless 6600 (component out)
Chaintech AV-710 (optical out)
PVR-250 (s-vid in from cable box)
PVR-150 (cable tuner)
HVR-1600 (cable tuner and qam)

The onboard spdif just crapped out on me forcing me to swap in the chaintech from another machine. I have had it up for the better part of 3 years and i think it may be time to upgrade. Especially if HD will be too much for the power i have. Aside from the sound issue everything has been working fine. At this point i am ready to take back the 1600 and get a HDHR.

Conejo
11-10-2007, 03:59 PM
I can't believe that I am only getting 11-20 channels per scan.

I believe this is the average amount of clear QAM channels that most of us are receiving. There ARE other QAM channels present but they are usually 'Unknown' (temporary channels used by on-demand) or 'Encrypted' (HD and SD simulcast channels for STB or CableCard play only).

Your system could probably handle recording four HD streams, but if you have to do any transcoding for playback... :nono:

You didn't say whether you're using an on-board display or a card to hand-off the MPEG-x decoding and video.

nyle
11-13-2007, 10:28 PM
I was able to get the 1600 to find open HD channels. But here is my issue. CBS-HD and ABC-HD come in great on my 1600, but NBC and FOX both struggle, most times only getting some audio or some garbled video.

Now my QAM tuner on the Panny TV gets all the HD channels fine.



HD Tuners have different sensitivity levels. I found that my 69% signal strength worked ok on one of my TVs but no where else. My solution, I bought an HD compatible inline amplifier. This not only increased the strength of my HD signal but improved the quality of my normal ones as well. It was worth every penny.

For the uninitiated - Also be sure you are using fully HD compatible splitters if you are splitting. If they don't have a high enough Ghz rating they'll clip HD channels. :hi:

-Nyle

Yooper
11-14-2007, 07:12 AM
What in-line amplifier did you use? The ones I have tried do not seem to increase the HD signal levels at all.

sixdoubleo
11-17-2007, 09:24 PM
OK, I got this to work but struggled with the remapping. Let me help you so you don't waste time like I did.


Setup the regular cable tuner first.

Now setup your QAM tuner.

Choose a different, but close program guide for your QAM tuner. Do not choose the guide that you use for your standard channels! For example, if you subscribe to premium cable, choose basic for your QAM.

Scan for channels.

View the channels found and write down what they are (just the ones you want to watch/use though).

Remap to physical channel. Search through and find the call sign for that channel and select it. Write down the channel number they display too.

Remap to logical channel number. Use the channel number you wrote down in the last step.

Last and the most important step that kept screwing me up...

Go to the channel setup of your regular cable tuner and deselect the channel that you are going to watch digital version of. For example, deselect ABC, NBC and CBS.

What this last step does is it allows your remapped channels to show up in the guide and replaces the standard def versions. This way when you go to watch NBC, you'll get the HD version through your QAM tuner.

I hope this helps because while the directions posted at the top of this thread were helpful, the last step kept screwing me up because I just didn't think to do this.

What if I want BOTH the SD version and the HD version of a channel? I only have one HD tuner, but 2 SD tuners. I don't want to limit NBC to ONLY HD, because if the HD tuner is busy recording something else, I would have no other way to record NBC. Know what I mean?

How do I keep both the SD (via PVR-250) and HD (via HVR-1600) versions of the same channel?

sixdoubleo
11-17-2007, 09:36 PM
And just for clarification, what is the word on the "QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE" file? Is it needed in Sage 6.2.10 or not?

Conejo
11-17-2007, 09:42 PM
What if I want BOTH the SD version and the HD version of a channel? I only have one HD tuner, but 2 SD tuners. I don't want to limit NBC to ONLY HD, because if the HD tuner is busy recording something else, I would have no other way to record NBC. Know what I mean?

How do I keep both the SD (via PVR-250) and HD (via HVR-1600) versions of the same channel?

Yes, you can keep all the channels.

Normally, you would keep ALL of the channels from your ANALOG SD tuner, and ENABLE only the DIGITAL HD channels found on your additional ATSC or QAM tuner.

People have found that their local OTA stations or cable operator also provide them with duplicate DIGITAL SD programming of some ANALOG SD channels. Since digital is preferred some people enable these DIGITAL SD channels and disable the ANALOG versions. Though you can keep them all enabled.

Just remember, if a station is available from multiple tuners on different channels, SageTV will nominate ONE CHANNEL to represent them all in the EPG (even though sage will use all channels as possible candidates to record the program).

sixdoubleo
11-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Yes, you can keep all the channels.

Normally, you would keep ALL of the channels from your ANALOG SD tuner, and ENABLE only the DIGITAL HD channels found on your additional ATSC or QAM tuner.

People have found that their local OTA stations or cable operator also provide them with duplicate DIGITAL SD programming of some ANALOG SD channels. Since digital is preferred some people enable these DIGITAL SD channels and disable the ANALOG versions. Though you can keep them all enabled.

Just remember, if a station is available from multiple tuners on different channels, SageTV will nominate ONE CHANNEL to represent them all in the EPG (even though sage will use all channels as possible candidates to record the program).

Kinda confused. Those instructions indicated that you need to DISABLE your SD versions so the HD version(s) would work.

If both SD and HD versions of a channel are "mapped" to a logical program guide entry, how does Sage know "I want the HD version"? Given a channel 3 with SD and HD versions, it almost seems like there needs to be "Channel 3" and "Channel 3-1". I would prefer that SD and HD channels be different channel numbers so I can specify channel preferences for favorites...Furthermore there may be cases where I want to record both the SD and HD versions of the exact same show.

Is there something that explains the channel mapping features in more detail because I'm fairly confused on that part of it.

sixdoubleo
11-18-2007, 12:40 AM
(Preface: Been a user and loyal advocate for Sage since 1.4. For the first time ever I am cursing Sage)

Not 100% positive on this...maybe 97%.....but it seems like for any given Program Guide (i.e. Comcast Stockton)...that if I have scanned for QAM channels once, Sage will never again find any channels.

In other words, the FIRST time I selected "Comcast Stockton" it found all 56 channels on QAM. But if I went BACK, removing the source and restarting Sage (to start over) it would find 0 channels.

At that point, I'd pick a different ZIP code and city (say Comcast Modesto) and again, it would find all 56 channels the first time, but never again.

I am running out of nearby cities. Short of starting with a brand new sage.properties file (or whatever it uses), how can I truly "start over".

The reason I have to keep starting over is because I am trying to figure out how the channel mapping works (due to a lack of documentation on the feature).

Excuse me for saying....but it doesn't seem as if Sage and QAM is really ready for prime time. I couldn't imagine a "regular" user doing all this.

Anybody else notice this where a 2nd or 3rd attempt at scanning for channels on the same program data yields 0 channels discovered?

Djc208
11-18-2007, 06:25 AM
I didn't have that issue when I set mine up. Rescanning would find all the channels again.

I do know what you mean about the channel mapping though. I had to re-scan about 4 times (and we all know how slow QAM scanning is) and look around on the forums and in the users manual before I managed to figure out I had it all backwards.
Can't say it's the most intuitive thing, but I've done enough user interfaces to know what makes sense to the designer doesn't always make sense to the users.

Conejo
11-18-2007, 11:11 AM
Kinda confused. Those instructions indicated that you need to DISABLE your SD versions so the HD version(s) would work.

Everything can be ENABLED if they are a tunable transmission source.

If both SD and HD versions of a channel are "mapped" to a logical program guide entry, how does Sage know "I want the HD version"? Given a channel 3 with SD and HD versions, it almost seems like there needs to be "Channel 3" and "Channel 3-1". I would prefer that SD and HD channels be different channel numbers so I can specify channel preferences for favorites...Furthermore there may be cases where I want to record both the SD and HD versions of the exact same show.

SageTV deals with channels by their STATION CALL LETTERS, not their channel numbers.

If you look at most EPG lineups, you'll see exactly what you're talking about. Each SD and HD channel have their own separate lineup, even when the content is duplicated, because each has a different call sign.

The over-the-air guide (http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?method=decideFwdForLineup&zipcode=95201&setMyPreference=false&lineupId=PC:95201) for Stockton from Zap2it shows:

KCRA ch 3 [contains NTSC broadcast of NBC programming]
KCRADT ch 3.1 [contains NTSC broadcast converted to HD, or partial and full HD programming of NBC programming]
KCRADT2 ch 3.2 [contains their weather channel, sometimes local news]

On a Cable System, these same channels might appear as this:

KCRA ch 3
KCRADT ch 703
KCRADT2 ch 187

Each of these 'channels' have a 'different call sign', so each gets a place in the SageTV EPG lineup.

If a Cable System simulcast the ANALOG KCRA ch 3 broadcast in Digital QAM (ex: as KCRA ch 143) then that broadcast would be available to you from two sources (analog tuner and QAM tuner) but because its station ID is the same it would only show up in the guide once. SageTV will pick which one gets recorded based on merit and conflict.

By the way, eventually all Over-The-Air broadcasts of NTSC programming will go away by 2009. KCRA channel 3 will probably get dropped on cable system, having been replaced by KCRADT.

sixdoubleo
11-18-2007, 11:18 AM
Everything can be ENABLED if they are a tunable transmission source.



SageTV deals with channels by their STATION CALL LETTERS, not their channel numbers.

If you look at most EPG lineups, you'll see exactly what you're talking about. Each SD and HD channel have their own separate lineup, even when the content is duplicated, because each has a different call sign.

The over-the-air guide (http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?method=decideFwdForLineup&zipcode=95201&setMyPreference=false&lineupId=PC:95201) for Stockton from Zap2it shows:

KCRA ch 3 [contains NTSC broadcast of NBC programming]
KCRADT ch 3.1 [contains NTSC broadcast converted to HD, or partial and full HD programming of NBC programming]
KCRADT2 ch 3.2 [contains their weather channel, sometimes local news]

On a Cable System, these same channels might appear as this:

KCRA ch 3
KCRADT ch 703
KCRADT2 ch 187

Each of these 'channels' have a 'different call sign', so each gets a place in the SageTV EPG lineup.

If a Cable System simulcast the ANALOG KCRA ch 3 broadcast in Digital QAM (ex: as KCRA ch 143) then that broadcast would be available to you from two sources (analog tuner and QAM tuner) but because its station ID is the same it would only show up in the guide once. SageTV will pick which one gets recorded based on merit and conflict.

By the way, eventually all Over-The-Air broadcasts of NTSC programming will go away by 2009. KCRA channel 3 will probably get dropped on cable system, having been replaced by KCRADT.

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation...it's making sense now.

What I did was leave channel 3 (KCRA) assigned to the analog Channel 3. Then I picked channel 903 (which is KCRAHD) and mapped it to physical channel 88-3-1, which is the QAM HD version of KCRA. Seems to work the way I envisioned it now.

Conejo
11-18-2007, 11:53 AM
Excuse me for saying....but it doesn't seem as if Sage and QAM is really ready for prime time. I couldn't imagine a "regular" user doing all this.

Anybody else notice this where a 2nd or 3rd attempt at scanning for channels on the same program data yields 0 channels discovered?

I wouldn't be so quick to fault SageTV on this issue. The 3rd party hardware companies are the ones who developed their 'workarounds' to the QAM vs Driver vs Tuner vs OS shortcoming. There is no 'unified' method. That's what you're dealing with now.

'Scan Channels' in SageTV isn't an absolute command. In the HDHR world the command scans a file created by the HDHR Setup/remap application. It will never 'discover' additional channels not already discovered by the HDHR Setup/remap application. The same thing may be happening here.

sixdoubleo
11-18-2007, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to fault SageTV on this issue. The 3rd party hardware companies are the ones who developed their 'workarounds' to the QAM vs Driver vs Tuner vs OS shortcoming. There is no 'unified' method. That's what you're dealing with now.

Well, I was referring more to QAM in general and its integration into Sage. It still seems like the whole process is very much experimental...and true it's not the fault of Sage. It sure did have me pulling my hair out though.

I found that if I manually deleted the frq file from the Sage directory, and then deleted the cache enable file, that it would then scan again properly.

chrisc983
12-20-2007, 12:09 AM
I have been trying to get this to work now for about a week. I am able to get my local QAM channels through my Sharp LCD but using the same cable connected to my computer using a compatible 1600 with the latest drivers, I am not able to pick up any QAM channels through WinTV or Sage. I have tried all of the fixes and updates and methods recommended in this thread but with no luck. SD channels come in fine with Sage but look pretty back when played back on the LCD TV.

Is there anything else that I could try or is there something that I am doing wrong? It would be great if I could get this to work with Sage.

chrisc983
12-21-2007, 11:53 PM
looks I finally got it to work. I upgraded to 6.3.5 and it detected about 50 QAM channels. Now to remap them.

gblinckmann
12-22-2007, 06:27 AM
looks I finally got it to work. I upgraded to 6.3.5 and it detected about 50 QAM channels. Now to remap them.

Did you do something other than just upgrading to 6.3.5 to make it work, or was something else the key? (I'm already at 6.3.5 and working QAM is still eluding me.)

chrisc983
12-23-2007, 12:53 AM
I also switched out my splitters I was using to the ones made by Monster. I dont know if that improved the signal. I was still not able to get it to work with WinTV but all that matters to me is that it works with Sage.

Also when I first created the QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE file I was only renaming the text file (thats what I get for working on it after I get off of work late) instead of changing the file type itself.

I open my SageTV root Directory (Default: C:ProgramFiles\SageTV\SageTV)
Go to File>New>Text Document
Folder Options>View> Uncheck Hide extensions for known file types
Rename text document to QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE

other than that I didn't change any settings on Sage. Also what was weird is that when I first remapped the QAM channels it wouldn't download the program guide for those channels even it I tried to force an update. Went to work and when I got back home it updated.

Playback on live TV and Recordings is very clear with no stutter :clap:

Ericft
12-23-2007, 02:11 PM
I have been mucking around with qAM for over a month now. i have gone back and forth with OTA signals?( never fully getting all local channels and even when I do, they are choppy in signal). Now with 6.3.5 i revisited the QAM tuner concept. with conventional cable and splitters I was able to get occasional on demand channels but only abc/nbc/CWW as HD channels. I have scanned multiple times and pooled several frq runs and still I am unable to get the other channels like fox/abc/pbs that should be available via QAM(i know coz i've connected a qam tuner TV in that past)
I am using a hcr 1600, the appropriate version number, and now I'm trying an amplifier (radioshack 1-4 bidirectional) and RG-6 wire from my wall cable input into the amplifier and now I get even fewer channels. I am extremely frustrated http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/images/smilies/iconbanghead.gif
:bang:
with the QAM stuff coz i seems to be such a simple thing to set up(easy on TV) but so difficult in sage.
Is there any way to input freq number into the file to manually load other stations that the sage channel search did not find??

ALSO, DOES ANYONE IN THE PROVIDENCE AREA USING COX HAVE A LIST OF THEIR QAM CHANNELS, EITHER VIA SAGE OR REGULAR TV TUNER?? THANKS http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif
:confused:

chrisc983
12-23-2007, 04:11 PM
Yeah I found that with the amplifier I didn't pick up as much signal as well. I switched to Monster splitters even though they were pricier because they stated they went up to 2Ghz and my old splitters went up to only 1GHz. And Im using all rg-6 cables

blade
12-25-2007, 01:59 AM
I have a HDHomeRun setup to use QAM and have just ordered a HVR-1600 and plan to use it for QAM as well. I'm running v6.3.5 and was wondering what the setup process is for the HVR-1600 in my situation? I just don't want to muck anything up.

Ricklesgolf
12-27-2007, 01:49 PM
I am setting up a Sage system and am using a Windows Vista Basic 2.4 ghz dual core processor. I have a WinTv 1600.

My HDTV recieves all the cable channels and QAM channels fine. The WinTV 1600 picks up the analog cable channels fine when I run the WinTV software.

The problem is that I cannot get Sage to pick up any channels. I just get "No Signal". I thought I followed the advise in this post but I Guess I am missing something.

Any help woud be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

gblinckmann
12-27-2007, 05:46 PM
I am setting up a Sage system and am using a Windows Vista Basic 2.4 ghz dual core processor. I have a WinTv 1600.

My HDTV recieves all the cable channels and QAM channels fine. The WinTV 1600 picks up the analog cable channels fine when I run the WinTV software.

The problem is that I cannot get Sage to pick up any channels. I just get "No Signal". I thought I followed the advise in this post but I Guess I am missing something.

Any help woud be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

I'm in the same boat, with the same symptoms. I, too, just get "no signal". I'm using an HVR-1800, model 78521 Rev C1E9, sn 4029361250, with driver version 1.19.25159.0 running on Vista Home Premium on an HP Pavilion m8200n.

I don't know if any of that might be helpful to anyone, but I figured that it can't hurt. The only thing I keep coming back to is a driver problem. Does anyone use a different (or newer) driver to make this work?

gblinckmann
12-28-2007, 06:29 PM
My TV lists a few QAM channels that I can get, such as these:

18-8 WXXA-DT
18-10 WTEN-DT
19-13 WNYT-DT

I've tried entering these into Sage, so that Sage reads like this:

1808 - WXXADT - [18-08]
WXXADT (WXXA-DT) Albany-Schenectady-Troy

I still get no signal like this, even though my TV finds the QAM channels. Sage doesn't find any of them when it scans.

I'm I entering the numbers right? Or is QAM just plain not working on the HVR-1800's?

elinks
01-14-2008, 12:02 PM
I am still having trouble getting SageTV (6.2.10) to find my QAM channels using the HVR-1600. I have followed this setup without luck. The scan dies and the channel scan graphics are corrupted before the scan completes (yes the WinTV software finds the QAM stations). I have allowed the scan to proceed overnight !

I though I had read somewhere (and can't find it) that you can make a change to the preference file so the scan will begin at channel number 80. If I could do this I might be able to get through a scan :bang:

If anyone knows how to start the scan at something other than channel 1 PLMK

Thanks
elinks

bullgates
02-29-2008, 12:38 AM
Can someone post their Sage.properties file? WinTV will find 124 QAM channels but they are choppy etc....

When I do the Sage scan it speeds thru 200 channels and finds nothing. I might be missing something obvious so if someone has a suggestion it would much appreciated.


I previously had an A180 installed but that has been removed to test the 1600.

Thanks,

lbrandolo
02-29-2008, 06:59 AM
You can try these new HVR-1600 drivers I found:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30895

John.Kelly
03-01-2008, 10:14 AM
Need Help!

I have been using SageTV for about 18 months. Until now, I have been using two Hauppauge analog tuners. In January I upgraded to SageTV version 6.3.5.160 in preparation for switching over to digital. I also just upgraded my Video Storage from 500 gigabytes to 1 terabyte by spanning my 1st Seagate 500 gigabyte drive with a 2nd Seagate 500 Gigabyte (ST3500630AS) drive. Total storage in the system is 1.25 Terabytes, so the one terabyte is totally devoted to video. My operating system is XP Pro. The disk drives use 3.0 Gb/sec ATA Serial controllers. The computer I am using is a 3.4 Ghz Intel Dual Pentium. This video server is networked, using a 100 BaseT hard wired network and a 16 port 100 BaseT switch, with 3 Hauppauge MediaMVP video extenders, which are attached to 2 NTSC Analog TVs and one ATSC Digital TV. Haven’t yet purchased a SageTV STX-HD100 Video extender for the Digital TV, but probably will after I get a couple of digital tuners working.

I have had little if any problems with the system since I assigned fixed IP addresses to my video server and the Hauppauge MediaMVP video extenders. Yes, occasionally I will have to power off, and back up the extenders, but using fixed addresses seemed to fix the extenders ability to find the video server. I have tested the two tuners recording, and the 3 TV’s playing recorded videos, all at the same time, with absolutely no problems. Of course this is only analog 720x480 recorded at 2 gigabytes/hour. I use OTA (over the air) analog signals from the Minneapolis market, and plan to use OTA Digital in the future. My amplified antennae system works just fine for both analog and digital. I know this is true since I do have one HD TV.

I missed the $60.00 sale at Circuit City for the Hauppauge 1600 model 1178 tuners, but saw that Newegg had a $20.00 coupon off the $85.00 price of the same unit (coupon offer over yesterday). Only 1 coupon per customer, so I only bought 1 unit to see how it would work.

Well, yesterday I tried to install the new Hauppauge 1600 model 1178 tuner. I left my two existing PCI bus, analog tuners in place (didn’t want to miss recording any programs). After installing the Hauppauge 1600, I used the Hauppauge WinTV CD (version 3.4D) to install the driver. After rebooting the machine, I checked the XP Device Manager and it showed 2 “Hauppauge WinTV-PVR PCI II (Encoder 16)” devices and 1 “Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC/QAM Combo” device. According to the XP Device Manager, all working correctly.

I hadn’t seen your instructions, and when trying to set up a new video source in SageTV, I was confused by the choice of 1. Hauppauge WinTV 418 Video Capture, and 2. Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS Capture. I have since realized that choice “1" is the NTSC Tuner.

My problem starts after picking choice 2, the “Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS Capture”. The next screen says, to the right of the “Digital TV Tuner”, “Loading Preview. Please Wait...”. This never changes to anything else. Clicking on the button at the bottom of this screen, which says “Device Input to Use: Digital Tuner”, does take me to the next screen. In my case, I then choose the “Use Tuner on Capture Card to tune Antennae/Broadcast”. The line up for the Minneapolis Area look completely wrong, but that is another issue. When I “Scan For Available Channels”, it finds none. At this point, the antennae is a direct feed to the ATSC on the Hauppauge 1600 with no splitters.

Everyone’s 1st reaction is that the antennae is no good. Well, I dragged our only Digital TV down to my office and, using a 3 way splitter, the digital TV channels came in perfectly. I used the splitter because I am considering having 3 ATSC sources when I finished with the system.

Now to complicate things. I hook up the antennae to the NTSC input on the Hauppauge 1600 and successfully added a 3rd NTSC tuner to the system (selected the “Hauppauge WinTV 418 Video Capture” choice). In other words, I can use the board as a NTSC source, but not as a ATSC source.

At one point, in desperation, I loaded the rest of the Hauppauge software from its CD. The result is interesting. Nothing about the Hauppauge WinTV application seems to work.

The only thing I can think of doing is to buy another Hauppauge 1600 and see what the results are with this new card. If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing them.

gblinckmann
03-02-2008, 08:45 AM
I would bet that if you got another card, you would get the exact results you are getting now. I've got an HVR-1800 (almost the same card) and I can usually get ATSC out of it. I've yet to get QAM working. The problem seems to be in the drivers. I get different results with every driver version.

My suggestion would be a different card. As much as I like Hauppauge products, their digital stuff just doesn't seem to be there yet.

bullgates
03-02-2008, 06:45 PM
MN here also. St Cloud.


I got mine working but it kept freezing on the channel scan. I assume that my signal is probably too strong as a few installers have noted in the past. I am going to try to add a splitter and see what happens.

I had the same issue on the preview screen, so I just clicked back on digital tuner and it would take me to the next screen.

I'll post my results with a splitter added in a few days.

John.Kelly
03-09-2008, 01:09 PM
I would bet that if you got another card, you would get the exact results you are getting now. I've got an HVR-1800 (almost the same card) and I can usually get ATSC out of it. I've yet to get QAM working. The problem seems to be in the drivers. I get different results with every driver version.

My suggestion would be a different card. As much as I like Hauppauge products, their digital stuff just doesn't seem to be there yet.

Well I did get the Hauppauge 1600, model 1178, to work. I decided to look at the Hauppauge site and see if their drivers were newer than the version I got with the Hauppauge board (see http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hvr1600.html). I had been shipped Version 3.4D, and the version on the site was 3.4D1. I did not download the beta.

I also decided that I should have totally uninstalled the Hauppauge applications (including usings HWClear.exe), before reinstalling the new software. So I did that this time.

What was even more interesting, on Hauppauge's site, was that the installation notes are slightly different between the written ones I got with the board and the ones on the site. This time I followed the instructions on the site. Now the Hauppauge finds all the ATSC channels when you scan for them.

Installing this one Hauppauge 1600 board (with 2 Hauppauge WinTV 250 NTSC boards) was my attempt to make sure I was using the right digital board, before completely replacing the NTSC boards. Before installing this first ATSC board, I had thought that I would probably use 3 ATSC boards (have been using two NTSC boards). The reason for this was that I still have two NTSC TVs and thought that using an extra board might be a substitute for purchasing and using converter boxes when the switch over comes next February.

Now that I have a working ATSC (over the air) board, I have realized what a problem it is to stream a HD (either 720 or 1080) program to a NTSC TV through a Hauppauge SD (standard definition) Hauppauge Media MVP. The Sage Transcoder that steams a transcoded 480 SD stream to the Media Extender, works really hard to do this. In my case, the Sage transcoder, for just 1 HD to SD stream, takes 50% of a dual 3.4 Ghrz pentium CPU. By the way, to get this to work better than it initially did, I changed the Setup > Detailed Setup > Server > Media Extender Conversion Quality, from "High Quality" to "Standard Quality".

I am confused why, with the version of SageTV that I am using (V 6.3.6.0), these HD to SD streams have no fast forward or fast rewind.

Now, it is obvious to me why we all should be interested in the Sage HD Media Extender, Model STX-HD100, even if the TVs being streamed to are SD (standard definition NTSC) TVs. The STX-HD100 does the work of transcoding instead of the SageTV Server computer.

The only remaining problem I have is convincing SageTV that I should be able to purchase 3 STX-HD100 Extenders for $199.95 - $29.95 = $170.00 each since I already have 3 extender licenses and don't need another one with each new extender!

subhadipsas
04-14-2008, 08:04 AM
I have followed all the instructions and setup the HVR 1600 with the FIOS cable from the wall hooked up (through a monster 2GHz 2 way splitter) connected to the ATSC port. I am getting 50+ QAM channels, but they are all SD (about 40 are music channels). I am not getting any HD locals. When I disconnect this cable from the HVR 1600 and connect it to the Panasonic HDTV directly - I get all the SD channels AND the HD locals. What am I doing wrong?

subhadipsas
04-16-2008, 08:15 AM
Last night I purchased a RCA 4 way cable amplifier and my problem is resolved !! All local HD channels showed up after a rescan. I think the HVR 1600 needs a higher signal than what a TV or STB needs.

DRM2PVR
04-16-2008, 08:25 AM
I would have to agree that the Tuner in the HVR 1600 is rather poor. Many of my regular cable channels would record grainy but when the same cable is rerouted through my Scientific Atlantic and back into the HVR 1600 over svideo they are much clearer. I've eliminatedd any tuning with my HVR1600 at all due to this.

thymceelie
04-22-2008, 09:26 AM
Got QAM going, but for some reason, whenever I'm watching something in SD and hit stop, I get an error message that says Sage must close. I can drag the little warning window off to the side and Sage keeps running fine, but when I close the error window, it turns off Sage. Recordings seem to be fine. Thoughts?

jrog
05-05-2008, 06:03 PM
I would have to agree that the Tuner in the HVR 1600 is rather poor. Many of my regular cable channels would record grainy but when the same cable is rerouted through my Scientific Atlantic and back into the HVR 1600 over svideo they are much clearer. I've eliminatedd any tuning with my HVR1600 at all due to this.

I don't have a signal issue with my 1600 on the digital side, it seems to get a nice picture, but occasionally during commercial skip with live shows (watching delayed of course) it craps out. Basically I'm left with a black screen and no audio... very annoying. I removed the digital tuner, and went back to my HDHomerun as the primary tuner, and all is well. I'm gonna take the HVR-1600 back to circuit city.

mdnttoker
11-19-2008, 07:01 PM
After talking with some folks on AVS Forum who are in the same area as me, I manually entered a channel for FOX HD and it worked. I don't know why the channel scan didn't pick it up though :confused:

How do you manually enter a QAM channel through Sage?
Do you have to know the frequency?

I am getting CBS, ABC, FOX, and PBS, but no NBC through Sage's automatic scan. I'd like to try manually entering it, but can't figure out how to do it.

I can bring up the actually frequency of the NBC HD channel on my cable box, but what do I do with that info? If I bring up the info screen on my digital cable box, it says the Tuner is at 111 Mhz, FDC: 74 Mhz, RDC: 20.5 Mhz.

Can I add the NBC HD channel through "Edit Lineup" section of the Setup Video Sources option in Sage? What do I enter for the various prompts to get NBC in my case? (channel 2XX, some on AVS quote the channel as "120.103" or "98.103").

Any help would be greatly appreciated...I'm so close to getting this working!

Thanks,
-M

pagelmcb
12-10-2008, 07:34 PM
My issue was the inability to get the HD channels that my HDTV picks up via QAM. SO after reading the whole thread I read that many people had to use an amplifier. It may have helped if FMAX would have also mentioned that in the first couple posts as well.

I went and got an adjustable cable amplifier from Home Depot along with some extra RG6 cables. At first I still only got the music and some regular digital SD channels. After a couple attempts I started getting the channels. I am still not 100% sure on its reliability... I may have to just get a outdoor HD antenna and go for the over-the-air ATSC signal instead. My guess is that it may give me more channels and may be more reliable...

But I wont make a final judgement yet. I think I am going to do both then report back.

pagelmcb
12-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Well I used a cheap HDTV antenna to try to tune ATSC over the air and it sucked...

Now I am getting nearly all the locals through qam and am happy with it. My only issue is that my local channel 3 (digitally supposed to be 3-1) is not showing up through my 1600. I get everything else that my HDTV picks up through direct channel scan. The thing is that my HDTV picks up my channel 3 HD as 106-7. And my 1600 does not detect that 106-7 at all. If it did I would just remap it. And I have tried to 'add new channel' in a few different ways but it just isnt working. It's both weird and frustrating for me... Im thinking of peaking through my sage.properties and seeing if I can force add this dtv channel (but I dont really know what Im doing ).

My signal strength on all the other qam local channels is 80+ so i dong think its a signal strength issue...

MalibuDave42
12-19-2008, 04:03 PM
I have both a 1600 and an 1800. Put them both in at once.. lots of confusion, frustration.... after deleting the sources, removing the cards, and using HWClear to remove the drivers, I started from scratch.

I installed only the 1800, latest drivers, then followed each step outlined by FMAX at the top of thread, then SIXDOUBLEO. to remove the SD channels replacing them with thier HD counterparts. All went smoothly, as described, up to the point of trying to watch the channel.

From the correct-looking guide, I selected a remapped channel, once it tuned in there was 'no signal'. Back in the Setup for that tuner and channel, it tunes in fine with the View button. The guide showed the 50.1 I was expecting.

Thoughts on this wierdness?

MalibuDave42
12-19-2008, 04:36 PM
I just talked Hauppage. Their tech support said neither a 1600 nor 1800 will tune in clear QAM channels from Comcast. "If you need clear qam support, the cards will not work, you should return them," said happuage tech support.

Does not sound promising....

pagelmcb
12-19-2008, 10:13 PM
With my 1600, I get practically all the same clear qam channels through Charter cable that my HDTV does, with the one exception.

My only CBS HD channel, which should be 3.1 (3-1), comes through my HDTV as 106-7. All the rest of the qam channels coming through my HDTV match my 1600 scanned channels (some local HD with many digital SD channels and music channels).

The thing is that the 1600 is not picking up the CBS at all (while the HDTV still gets it as 106-7).

I'd love to be able to 'force' sage to tune the qam channel of 106-7 but I can't figure out how... :bang:

awhiteguy
12-25-2008, 12:22 PM
So the first time I did a channel scan, the tuner found 48 channels (just like my TV does). This proves that I have good signal.

All 48 channels were listed in the channel setup. I then started trying to remap channels to match my digital cable lineup. I got confused and messed up some remaps and the channels dissappeared from the setup.

I then decided to start over and do another scan. The progress bar said it found 48 channels again, but when it finished only 32 channels or so were listed. Scan again and the number of channels listed dropped even more.

So I deleted the .frq files, removed the source, shut down sage, restarted the service and tried it again.

This time doing a scan showed 48 channels found, but when it finished only 36 channels are listed to view/remap.

What is going on here? How do I get the channel setup to list all 48 channels again? Currently, they are all listed in the .frq file, but not showing up in the channel setup to view/remap. Thanks,
Austin

stewart710
02-04-2009, 12:31 PM
I just talked Hauppage. Their tech support said neither a 1600 nor 1800 will tune in clear QAM channels from Comcast. "If you need clear qam support, the cards will not work, you should return them," said happuage tech support.

Does not sound promising....

That's BS, because I can get Comcast (MA) Clear QAM on my HVR-1600 (74041) in SageTV and WinTV6 if I use their old 3.4D1 drivers. When I update to any of there newer drivers I lose Clear QAM tuning. They've obviously disabled or broken the capability in their newer drivers and don't seem to care about it. I did have to buy an Electroline cable Amplifier to boost the signal for their pathetic cards (the unboosted signal is perfectly fine on both of HDTVs and my cablebox). Has anyone else been able to get their newer drivers to work with Clear QAM in Sage?

t4uecker
02-04-2009, 01:45 PM
That's BS, because I can get Comcast (MA) Clear QAM on my HVR-1600 (74041) in SageTV and WinTV6 if I use their old 3.4D1 drivers. When I update to any of there newer drivers I lose Clear QAM tuning. They've obviously disabled or broken the capability in their newer drivers and don't seem to care about it. I did have to buy an Electroline cable Amplifier to boost the signal for their pathetic cards (the unboosted signal is perfectly fine on both of HDTVs and my cablebox). Has anyone else been able to get their newer drivers to work with Clear QAM in Sage?

i just downloaded and installed their latest drivers a few days ago (labeled "cd version 4.6a+" on their site) and it's working just fine with clear qam through comcast.

reggie14
02-04-2009, 02:58 PM
I have an HVR-1600 and tune QAM channels from Comcast without any problems. I'm not completely sure what driver version I'm using, but I know I updated them with whatever was on the Hauppauge support site about a month ago. The newer drivers fixed some audio-video synchronization problems I was having on an analog tuner.

Getting QAM channels to appear is sometimes a bit tricky. Too much of a signal is as much of a problem as too little. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get all the channels. Also, there's some sort of frequency file that Sage includes to make QAM channel scanning faster. It might even just be a blank file that, if exists, Sage uses a different way of searching for channels. In any event, I know I had to get rid of that file before I was able to pick up channels. But, off the top of my head I don't know what that file was called.

Edit: I think I'm thinking of the QAM_FRQ_CACHE.ENABLE file. Make sure there is no file with that name in your Sage directory. And, if there isn't one, try adding a blank file with that name and see if it helps. You really should be able to get your QAM channels in Sage if they worked in MCE.

stewart710
02-05-2009, 11:15 AM
Well, I never used MCE, so I don't know if it works with that. I have tried scanning both ways, with the QAM enable file, without, sometimes I get 3 SD channels, others nothing. I have the same issues scanning through Wintv6. The only thing that works is reverting to the drivers supplied in the 3.4D1 package. I don't think it could be that the signal is too strong, because SageTV tells me the signal is ~79% on the best channels. I know it is strong enough with the amp, because I can find the channels with the older drivers. I also do the correct uninstall ritual between drivers as well as the BDA register script. I just want to upgrade to newer drivers to try to fix crashes I get in sage while watching live HD.

vtac
02-11-2009, 06:41 PM
Hi,

I'm new to site and found this thread searching on Google...:goodjob:

I've got the HVR-1600 (74041) also and running Windows Vista 64 Ultimate. I just downloaded and installed SageTV 6.9.5 with the WinTV Hybrid Full CD 4.8.26270 drivers. I to try and get no QAM channels to work. Hauppauge WinTv does not work.

I'm getting everything but the QAM channels. It thinks it has them but stays on the previous channel.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

gmijackso
02-16-2009, 09:07 AM
Not trying to drag this off topic at all, but apparently this "CD package" is the only way to get new drivers now? I tried to install it to see if there were new drivers available and it said that it had updated, but the driver version didn't change.

So can anybody tell me what the current (I guess from the CD package) driver version/date is?

I'm running 1/28/2008 ver: 1.62.26028.0

Thanks!

mets3145
03-12-2009, 12:40 AM
Not trying to drag this off topic at all, but apparently this "CD package" is the only way to get new drivers now? I tried to install it to see if there were new drivers available and it said that it had updated, but the driver version didn't change.

So can anybody tell me what the current (I guess from the CD package) driver version/date is?

I'm running 1/28/2008 ver: 1.62.26028.0

Thanks!

Same with me

voorhees
03-12-2009, 09:15 PM
I'm running 1/28/2008 ver: 1.62.26028.0

I downloaded and installed them last weekend and I have the same ones.

chrisc983
01-20-2010, 02:33 PM
I finally got around to adding my two 1600s to my WHS. I have tried several different drivers but I am having no luck with finding any channels. I've tried a direct connect to a cable connection and even an hdtv antenna. I'm wondering if the problem might be related to when I went through the add tuner wizard when I get to the part to choose xmltv line up, its just blank.

chrisc983
01-21-2010, 11:57 PM
Got it working but for some reason only one of my 1600s is getting a signal. Any tips?