HDTV support - which cards are likely?

[JJarmoc]

I know HDTV support for Sage has been discussed before, and I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping for it.

In the meantime, I'm looking at getting an HDTV tuner card to play with, but I don't want to shoot myself in the proverbial foot by getting something unlikely to be supported by sage eventually. So my question is, are you guys far enough along the HDTV road that you can give any indication about which cards are more or less likely to be supported? Obviously, I don't expect a firm commitment, but if someone can at least mention which cards definitely won't be supported, I can try to keep away from them.

[dkardatzke]

I can't really say right now because we haven't gotten into testing any HD cards to date. Our goal would be to support as many as possible though. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[JJarmoc]

That's alright.. I was just hoping to narrow down the selection a bit. I'm sure you can understand that I don't want to end up buying two cards if it can be avoided. I'll probably try to wait a while, and hopefully sage development of HD will be a little further along when I finally take the plunge.

[JJarmoc]

Sorry to harp on this topic further, but a co-worker just pointed out that Hauppauge has a fairly new card out called the WinTV-HD (http://registration.hauppauge.com/webstore/hardware.asp#wintv_hd) I'd assume that seeing as how other Hauppauge cards are supported in Sage, this would be pretty high on the list of cards you guys might be looking at.

Is that an accurate assumption?

As you can tell, I'm really dying for HD time-shifting. It'd be awesome to be able to do it with Sage.

[dkardatzke]

It will definitely be one of the cards we focus on and we are already trying to get more information directly from Hauppauge on the card.

[JJarmoc]

Thanks, that's encouraging. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm REALLY anxious to see HD come to Sage. If it helps any, I'd be happy to test when the time comes. I don't currently have any of the HD tuners, but I'd be willing to buy whatever card you guys are looking at.

I hope I'm not coming across as annoying, just anxious.. and hopeful. :-)

[Mark Lamutt]

JJarmoc,

As an aside to this discussion, the WinTV-HD card is one of the oldest HD tuner cards on the market today, and frankly isn't very good. The tuner is MUCH less sensitive than the other cards out, and doesn't have very good support out there. Most people that have had this card over at AVSForums have dumped it in favor of a Hipix, MyHD or HiDTV card. I'm not even sure if the WinTV-HD cards are readily available anymore.

Believe me, I'm hoping every bit as much as you are for HD capabilities in SageTV. The issue is getting the card manufacturers to provide some information to the Frey guys to make it all work.

[JJarmoc]

Yah, I did some checking on AVSForums and it seems the consensus is to avoid the WinTV-HD. It does appear to still be available, but given all the problem people have reported, I think I'll avoid it, unless Sage support is worked out.

It's amazing that most of the card manufacturer's think their software is good enough. Everything in the way of HD recording is so far in it's infancy, you'd think they'd be happy to have software support in 3rd party apps. I guess all we can do is wait.

[Narflex]

HiPix has a very high probability of being the card that we first support for HDTV. SageTV is already able to control the HiPix card for recording in the latest build (with some tweaking and a custom proxy I wrote). :cool:

[metz123]

Are you going to record the native transport stream format or extract the MPEG II out of the HDTV signal and record as an MPEG file?

Is playback going to be through the HDTV card or video card?

Thanks

[Narflex]

It records the transport stream straight to disk.

Playback will be through your video card at first using HDTV software decoding. Later we will look into using the video output on the HiPix and other HDTV cards.

[edmc]

> Playback will be through your video card at first using HDTV software decoding.

This is very encouraging - and surprising. From what I understand, the only S/W Decoder folks have been satisfied with is the one that ships with the DViCo FusionHDTV I/II. I didn't know there were other options that were satisfactory for folks.

What do you feel will be the H/W resources required. I take it the S/W Decoder will actually utilize the DxVA of the Video Card. Can you comment on this?

[JJarmoc]

Bummer, the HiPix card is discontinued and can no longer be purchased.

[Narflex]

Yeah, figures that'd be the one with the TCP/IP interface....which Sage has the ability to interface with for ANY type of capture device if a server were to exist, like one does for the HiPix card.

[python]

Since the Hipix card is essentially discontinued, why don't you guys add support for the MyHD card which seems to be the most popular one currently available? They (MIT) also may be open to giving you information needed for supporting the card. Has Frey tried contacting them?

[Mark Lamutt]

Yup. The hipix was first, because the interface to it was by far the easiest of all of the cards right now, and because I happen to have 2 of them so testing was/is simplified. MyHD is definitely on the list if Jeff can get the information he needs out of the MIT people. You might send them off an email asking them to provide everything that Jeff needs. :)

[python]

I'm happy to ask MIT for assistance but could you be more specific with regards to what is needed to add support for the MDP-100/120?

[mkerdman]

I would like to join Geoff Reynolds in inviting all present and prospective SageTV and Sage Recorder users with an interest in HDTV to take a look at the accessDTV Digital Media Receiver which is available now and sells for $249.95 complete with an excellent indoor Silver Sensor Antenna.

THE FOLLOWING IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT INTENDED AS A COMMERICAL OFFER:

http://216.207.142.133/local/buyonline.htm

The accessDTV is the ONLY HTVD PVR card that can:

- Pause live HDTV

- Record a buffer of up to one hour that you can FF or RWD through and watch a program from the beginning while still recording/buffering the rest.

- and many many more "trick" features to come...


iTech, owners of the accessDTV product, have agreed to make ALL the underlying source code available to the new All-Volunteer OFFICIAL AUTHORIZED accessDTV Software Development Team to further develop its features to take greater advantage of the excellent hardware that exists of the card.

Geoff and I are forming the nucleolus of the All-Volunteer OFFICIAL AUTHORIZED accessDTV Software Development Team and would like to invite:

- anyone with technical code writing expertise and access to the requisite development tools to respond or PM either of us with your qualifications, interest and area of expertise in participating in the further development of the accessDTV software

- Frey Technologies to cooperate to bring together the best HDTV PVR hardware/software ("accessDTV") with the best EPG Programming and Guide Data ("SageTV & SageRecorder") to create the ultimate in HTPC HDTV Time Shifting and Recording available.

- all forum members and end users of both accessDTV and/or SageTV to express their support for developemnt of the SageTV service for the accessDTV Digital Media Reciver.

Please express your interest by posting here and feel free to PM me or Geoff Reynolds ("gsr") directly.

[dkardatzke]

We have already contacted the MyHD folks and have been interacting with them for a few weeks. I'm still waiting to here back on a few interface questions.

Feel free to contact them to plug the support of SageTV with their card though.

Murray and Geoff, we will be in touch regarding the support of accessDTV.

[mkerdman]

Dan,

Geoff and I as well as the new accessDTV Software Development Team, along with the entire accessDTV community look forward to bringing the power of SageTV (now available without monthly fees) together with that of the accessDTV Digital Media Receiver (now available for only $249.95).


Murray Kerdman

[NicolasW]

In my lurking on the AVS Forums, I believe the consensus is that the MyHD card is the one to get. That's about all I know.

Good luck!
Wes

[edmc]

The problem with the MyHD solution is it provides no means to play a program back while recording another. It can either display the program being recorded OR playback a previously recorded program. Just not both at the same time.

Now, if MyHD is combined with a separate H/W or S/W solution used for the playback function, that's quite another matter. DViCo chose this route - others will certainly follow. I imagine that the various Video decoders people use for DVD playback may also work - but I am unaware of any that make sufficient use of DxVA in order to enable less than a 3GHz CPU to playback full-rez HD without stuttering.

The AccessDTV card - which is still available and has seen a recent price drop - does, however, have the necessary support for simultaneous recording/playback needed by SageTV.

Is this other folks understanding?

[mkerdman]

"The AccessDTV card - which is still available and has seen a recent price drop - does, however, have the necessary support for simultaneous recording/playback needed by SageTV."

This huge advantage that accessDTV has over all the other HDTV cards

- simultaneous recording/playback of HDTV-

is one that the AVS accessDTV Software Development Team hopes to make available to users in the near future.

As for SageTV support for accessDTV, let's just say it is certainly technically possible.

Please let Frey Technologies know that you would like SageTV support for accessDTV by responding here.

And, stay tuned...in HDTV of course!


Murray Kerdman

[Tril]

Why cant anyone make PVR software for the 878A chipset?

I have the cheaper WinTV-D from Hauppauge which converts all the DVD formats to a 480 signal. I got another PVR software to work with it once but since I rebuilt the machine it doesnt recognize it.

The card is perfectly fine its just that Hauppauge doesnt make good software.

Do you have any plans on supporting the Conexant 878A chipset in the future?

[djg]

I have both the MyHD and the AccessDTV cards and would welcome SageTV support for either of them. But I really prefer the AccessDTV with its timeshifting capability.

Looking forward to Sage HD support!

[ttriplett]

The accessDTV card is the only one that I am interested in because of its true PVR capabilities (ffwd, rwd, pause, skip, etc).

I think that this card in conjunction with SageTV support would be the PERFECT solution for building an HDTV equipped HTPC!!! Especially with SageTV's ability to control external STBs and integrate everything under one program quide.

Come on Frey! You guys get together and make this happen!

[salsbst]

I vote for Hipix (because I have one) and accessDTV (because I'd buy one, since it has the pausability, if it worked really well with SageTV).

[mkerdman]

Yes, it's important to keep in mind that the accessDTV card is the only HDTV Capture Card that is capable of true PVR hardware capabilities (ffwd, rwd, pause, skip, etc).

Also another important fact to be aware of is that iTech is an american manufaturer currently shipping new product from inventory.

Further, future product innovation will be forthcoming from the AVS accessDTV Software Development Team.


accessDTV Digital Media Receiver System

Digital Media Receiver, software, antenna, cabling

$249.95 Total Solution

http://216.207.142.133/local/buyonline.htm



Now, if it had SageTV support as well...then....



Murray Kerdman

[edmc]

While I am quite happy to wait and see, at this point, what HDTV Tuner/Capture cards will be supported by SageTV, I really must comment on what I think is a bit of misinformation being reported by ttriplett and mkerdman.

While it is true that the AccessDTV card is capable of simultaneously capturing an OTA HDTV signal to disk and playing back an HDTV stream via onboard MPEG-2 Decoders, this does not mean that is the only way to do it. Indeed, ANY of the discussed HDTV cards could be used in this fashion (i.e. capture while playing back) if just one thing were true - that the playback used NO resources on the Tuner/Capture card.

As has been said before, there are various solutions here - the most obvious being the FusionHDTV Card and S//W from DViCo. There are also other S/W decoders available as well. And, in my opinion, this model is far more preferable than the AccessDTV model...

So lets keep the Tuning/Capture function independent of the Playback function - this just might allow us to pick the "best of breed" for each :-)

[mkerdman]

edmc

Rest assured that there was no intention on my part to misrepresnt anything but only to note that the AccessDTV card is capable of simultaneously capturing an OTA HDTV signal to disk and playing back an HDTV stream via onboard MPEG-2 Decoders.

As of yet, no other HDTV card has a SW playback/record implementation such as you describe.

That certainly does not mean that one is not possible.

However, the AccessDTV card's capability to play back an HDTV stream via onboard MPEG-2 Decoders seems the preferable method compared to SW decoding insofar as the SW method has a high CPU resource usage and is more readily corrupted or conflicted with.

Murray Kerdman

[mandrake]

The problem with the hardware decode for me and I suspect many here is I have a central server with sage with 3 turners feeding me house. When I add the HD card it will feed out also so the hardware decode is worthless. I looked over the card and the price is right but I will need SW decode for all my clients. Now if the HW decode would work across the network that could be different since I will mainly be watching the HD stuff in the family room. How much bandwidth does HD take?

[mkerdman]

accessDTV does not now have any client/server functions.

Currently, it would require seperate accessDTV cards in each PC on a network to playback HD files from anywhere on the network.

Client Server feeding of some kind of streamed HD to other PC's with SW Decoders for playback might work for some other HW products.

However, HW decoding of HDTV as utilized in accessDTV is vastly superior to the SW decoding used by others.



Murray Kerdman

[gsr]

Originally posted by mandrake
The problem with the hardware decode for me and I suspect many here is I have a central server with sage with 3 turners feeding me house. When I add the HD card it will feed out also so the hardware decode is worthless. I looked over the card and the price is right but I will need SW decode for all my clients. Now if the HW decode would work across the network that could be different since I will mainly be watching the HD stuff in the family room. How much bandwidth does HD take?

As Murray said, the AccessDTV solution doesn't support streaming the decoded signal over the network at this time. More research would be needed to determine if this is technically and/or legally possible to do. Given the amount of data required for transmitting the decoded HD MPEG-2 stream over the network, I'm not even sure if this would make for a very practical solution.

[mel_g]

I too would like Accessdtv support for SageTV.

[rotaryracer]

Sending it back up....I'm sure there would have been trumpets blaring and much fanfare if v1.4 included HDTV capabilities for ANY of the HD cards, so I'm not holding out hope for this release.....but there's always 1.5 or Studio, right?!?!?! :D

[JJarmoc]

Yup, still lurking and dieing for HD-SageTV. Honestly, a lot of my enthusiasm has died for sage.. I may just stop using it altogether if I can't get HD from it soon.

[Narflex]

Well then...how about some feedback from people on how well the HDTV recorded files playback in Sage? It has playback support for HDTV files (if the installed MPEG2 decoder supports it and the hardware can handle it). But I've gotten almost no feedback on what card's recordings playback or don't.

Once there's some consensus that it can playback the files correctly, then we can do more for supporting recording.

[rotaryracer]

I'd be the first to test playback....if I had a HTPC and a TV to connect it to. :(

My XBR910 is supposed to be arriving in a couple of weeks, though, so I'm getting ready to start building my HTPC.

Unfortunately, it's that old Catch-22 - I don't want to buy a HD card unless I know it would be fully supported in the future by Sage, but I can't provide feedback to Sage on HD playback unless I buy a HD card that may or may not be supported. :bang:

If you told me that you've been working with the AVS Forums/AccessDTV team for HD integration, I'd buy an AccessDTV. If it's the MIT folks, then I'll grab a MyHD-120. I'd even buy a Fusion II, particularly if Sage can overcome the apparent buggy software that comes with the card.

So, that's my sob story....Jeff/Dan, from everything I've seen and read, you guys make a kickass product and provide great support. I'd like to buy Sage, but will probably hold out for HD integration.

Thanks and keep up the great work!

Jason

[gregmo]

I would love for Sage TV to support Access DTV, and I know about 10 other people who also want this.

Please give this card your consideration, Frey Technologies.

[dkardatzke]

We haven't provided an update on this in awhile and hope to in the next couple of months. We have been working on HD support with one manufacturer and are still working out some initial items for support. We hope to revisit HD and possibly making an Alpha version available for testing this fall.

However, we don't want to release an Alpha (or Beta) version for testing until we have the time to support it and take the feedback to work on the HD version. In the meantime our focus in on releasing v1.4 and then finishing the Studio and version 2.0 for release this fall.

We will make an announcement when we are ready to begin some level of HD testing later this fall.

Thanks,
Dan

[JJarmoc]

I don't want to buy a HD card unless I know it would be fully supported in the future by Sage, but I can't provide feedback to Sage on HD playback unless I buy a HD card that may or may not be supported.

This is my situation exactly. I'd love to test Sage's ability to playback HD, but without having an HD card, I have no way of capturing a stream. I'd be willing to buy a card if there was some indication which one was being researched (which is really why I started this thread back in April asking which cards are likely to be supported). If I buy a card now, I risk getting one which will never have Sage support. By waiting, I'm unable to help test. It's something of a catch 22.

If there were some direction, I'd jump at the opprotunity to provide all the feedback I could. Even if something were said along the lines of 'We're in early stages of developing support for X. It may or may not end up being a feasible solution, but we're going to work on it until we encounter some un-workable obstacle.' If such a statement were made, I'd buy X. I'd test X. I'd give feedback on how sage works with X and stream captured using it. Even with the understanding that full support my never come, I'd be willing and happy to do all this. If I had even the slightest assurance that any particular card, I don't care which one, was being investigated I'd do everything I can to help.

As it stands, it seems you're relying on the userbase to be unpaid testers, and not even telling us which cards are likely to end up in the build. I don't mind the unpaid tester part, we're a demanding group so it stands to reason that we help out in the development as much as possible. However, I obviously don't want to shell out significant money on hardware for the purpose of testing without knowing if it will ever be even considered for support.

I've tried looking around online for some downloadable HDTV streams to playback in sage, but due to copyright issues finding them is not an easy task. If Sage could provide some sort of approved sample stream, I'd be willing to download it and let you know how it works on my system. Maybe you could get HDNet or someone to let you distribute their demo loop for testing purposes?

I hope this post doesn't come across as crass or demanding. I appreciate the hard work you guys have done so far, but we've been fed nuggets of hope for HD support for months now. We've been asked to test, and we've been given no information as to which cards are likely to be supported in return. All I ask for is a little information. It's understandable and honorable that you wouldn't want to make promises too soon, but I think most of us can distinguish promises from early information about possible future direction. And I know that lots of people would be willing to help, but it's a give and take, and we've got to be given at least some information in order to be able to help out at all.

So, I'll cut to the chase and throw this out there - Dan, who is the one manufacturer you've been working with? If there's any likelihood of sage support of their capture card, I'll buy one today and post feedback about Sage's playback of their HD streams the day I have the card in my hands.

[rotaryracer]

YEAH! What he said! :D

I'm buying parts for the HTPC today. I'll be placing an order with Digital Connection for a few things and have added and removed the MIT MyHD-120 from my shopping cart countless times. That card seems to be the most stable and usable (although AccessDTV has quite a few supporters), but I'd hate to spend close to $400 (with DVI daughterboard) only to find out it's not the direction Sage is heading.

Dan/Jeff, the good news is that there's alot of people making HTPC decisions based on your product and H/W support alone. That's a testament to what you've produced so far and what we think you're capable of.

Of course, that also happens to be the bad news, since we're all eagerly awaiting the first morsel of info on HDTV! :jump:

You guys may be under NDA with the HD card manufacturer, but it might be worthwhile to send this message by your contact - if you can release who you're testing/in discussions with, there will probably be a SIGNIFICANT upswing in their HD card sales!

Thanks again guys....:goodjob:

Jason

[JJarmoc]

I hadn't thought of the NDA possibility.. would an NDA cover the disclosure that the NDA exists? I'd be happy with a simple 'We're under NDA with <manufacturer X>' to base a purchase decision on.

[gregmo]

That would be a pretty severe NDA. Not being able to even admit you have an NDA.

Why would a card manufacturer even care if people knew they were supporting their card anyway?

[Narflex]

NDAs where you can't admit you're under them are actually somewhat common. You just don't hear about them that much for obvious reasons. :)

[gregmo]

Hmm. Didn't know that. I was under a absurdly restrictive non-compete once (actually illegal in my state) but they didn't include that restriction.

Anway, I'm buying a HD card today and would like to know which card Sage TV will most likely work well with in the near future.

[JJarmoc]

I think I'm starting to see where the problem lies.

I still want information though, but I guess we're stuck waiting for the time being.. *sigh* Let's just hope we get some hard facts about Sage HD support before TiVo or ReplayTV support HD.

If sage gets beat to the punch, I'll have some serious thinking to do.. The way it stands now, I'll likely jump on the first HD PVR implementation I can find, not necessarily the best one.

[StylinLP]

I raise my hand up to! I need to know which HDTV tuner card may be supported in the furture because like the others here I am about to buy a HDTV tuner card this week.

[rotaryracer]

Well, I popped for HTPC parts today. Of course, the most important part - ANY kind of TV tuner - was left off for now. If we get direction on HD, then I'll head back to Digital Connection and snag a HD tuner card. If not, then I may grab 1 or 2 PVR-250s. I'm trying to avoid making hardware changes once it's up and running - "she who must be obeyed" will not be pleased if she gets all set up running it and then I go and "break" it!

Thanks guys - keep on coding!

[JJarmoc]

Well, you could get a haupagge tuner for the time being. I've got one, and my thinking is that when Sage does support HD tuners, it'll probably continue it's model of supporting multiple tuners of different models with different guides.

My idea is to set the HD tuner with the highest preference, and a guide that only includes stations which broadcast HD, then keep a SD tuner (or two) on hand to record everything else. We'll see if it'll work that way, but my thinking is that this would let me record HD whenever it's available, but fall back to SD if the HD tuner is in use, or the show isn't broadcast in HD.

[rotaryracer]

Unfortunately, all the indecision on my part is going to cost me at least $40 (single tuner) and maybe $80 (multituner). I didn't pop for the PVR250s when Circuit City had 'em on sale, so the cheapest I can find them for now is $139 at, ironically enough, Sage! :bang:

I got too hooked on the hi-def feed at Circuit City on the XBR910 and I'm really going to miss not going that route. I'm half tempted to snag a HD card and eBay it if Sage won't support it in the future, but I guess for now I'll keep myself content with DVDs at 1080i and SDTV.... :D

[alexzogh]

Any possibility you could release the sage / hipix beta software to the long-suffering hipix community?

While most of my beta testing experience has been with consumer products, I'd be glad to help.

[edmc]

Harry Lee @ DViCo was gracious enough to respond to my query about the plans for the rumored QAM-capable version of their HDTV Tuner Card. He reports that mass production of the card will be ready sometime next month (October'03) and that testing has been underway in the USA for 2 weeks already.

[Narflex]

alexzogh,

What software are you referring to that I release?

There was some experimental work done with the HiPix card. This was done through the "Network Encoding" feature of SageTV. What I did was write a TCP/IP proxy server that translates SageTV's network encoding commands into the ones the HiPix application understands through its own TCP/IP server. We were somewhat successful with it. I'll happily share the source for the proxy server (written in Java of course) if anyone's interested.

Mark (one of our admins) can comment more on this too, he did all the testing with me. :)

The current release of SageTV should be capable of playing back files recorded with the HiPix or other HDTV cards. And the network encoding architecture supports timeshifting (so you can pause live tv and all that other good stuff).

And I don't have a HiPix card so am unable to test this.

[alexzogh]

Narflex,

that's exactly what I was talking about!

There is still a large group of dedicated hipix hackers on avsforums. Pointed in the right direction, we could do some great things. The last three versions of the hipix software were written by avsforum members (including the TCP/IP server).

Alex

[Narflex]

Here's the source and the compiled Java class.

To run it, go to DOS, cd into the directory where you extracted this, and type:
java HiPixProxyServer

Then setup the HiPix as a network encoder in Sage (directions on our website). Also have the HiPix app running.

Then in SageTV it should then control the HiPix card to some degree. There's still a few little things to be worked out, but the only one that was a real problem was the file naming technique I believe. The HiPix TCP/IP server doesn't use the filename you give it, it makes that a directory and puts the file in there. Sage doesn't want a directory, it just wants a single file.

[alexzogh]

Wow, you are fast!

Should be too difficult to get the old hipix gang to force filename recognition. I'll post the info on AVSforum to see if I can get a group together - if not, I know enough java to get the project started.

BTW, this is enough to get me to buy the program! I guess I'll be your latest happy customer.

Alex

[rotaryracer]

Whoa....that's quick! Jeff, here's the thread at AVS - looks like you made the HiPix guys happy today!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=298468

Now, about that Fusion/MyHD/AccessDTV code..... :D

[rfutscher]

What will be the cost of the Bundle and when will it be avalable?

SageTV and the SageTV Client v1.4 Software plus Hauppauge's WinTV-PVR-250 PCI TV analog Tuner Card plus FusionHDTV III Digital 8VSB/QAM Tuner card.


If I also want to control the Creative video blaster and HiPix cards in my other computer from both my computers would I need a different combination of software?

[rotaryracer]

FYI, for those that have the newest SageTV up and running (that supports HDTV playback), here is a website to download sample *.tp files recorded with a Fusion II. Bring your translator..... :D

http://www.dvico.co.kr/Download/d_fusionhdtvdemo.asp

I ran the demo on my AMD 2500+ with 1GB of RAM and a 9200SE - picture quality is AMAZING on my PC monitor, however, one of the clips (bshi01.tp) has a weird horizontal judder at the top of the letterbox. If anyone pulls these down, can you let me know if you see it as well? Both of the other 2 clips I d/l'ed played fine.

Anyway, test away and report back to Narflex!

[JJarmoc]

Ummm.. where's the link? Is it there or did the moderator pull it?

[rotaryracer]

Yeah, that would help, huh?

http://www.dvico.co.kr/Download/d_fusionhdtvdemo.asp

Enjoy!

Jason

[JJarmoc]

That's funny.. I tried getting the dvico demo files the other day from dvico.com and there's only dead links there. I figured they took them down due to their size. I guess they just moved them and forgot to update the .com site.

Thanks for the links!

[xlurkr]

Does anyone else here have some transport stream files they've recorded with an HDTV card? If so, I wonder if you could repeat a promising experiment I did the other day. I had downloaded the Fusion demo and some sample clips. Later, I tested Sage's ability to play transport stream files on the same machine. Unless I'm mistaken, it was able to do so using the Fusion decoder, but without time limit that their demo player has!

If this was really happening, it would be great, because the full Fusion player only works on systems that have the Fusion hardare installed, from what I'm told. But the decoder produces a great picture, even on systems with a weak processor, as long as you have the right video card. Who needs the player, when you have SageTV?

I only got as far as reporting back that, at the time at least, SageTV had no way of selecting the subchannel from multichannel streams, so I quit. I no longer have access to the hardware. Anyone want to give it a try?

p.s. Loose lips, and DVICO will sink our ship.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by rotaryracer
FYI, for those that have the newest SageTV up and running (that supports HDTV playback), here is a website to download sample *.tp files recorded with a Fusion II. Bring your translator..... :D

http://www.dvico.co.kr/Download/d_fusionhdtvdemo.asp

I ran the demo on my AMD 2500+ with 1GB of RAM and a 9200SE - picture quality is AMAZING on my PC monitor, however, one of the clips (bshi01.tp) has a weird horizontal judder at the top of the letterbox. If anyone pulls these down, can you let me know if you see it as well? Both of the other 2 clips I d/l'ed played fine.

Anyway, test away and report back to Narflex!


Here's the english page with the Dvico demo files, I think one is missing from this page though (2nd from the top on the Korean page).

http://www.dvico.com/hdtv/download.asp

Jeff/Dan,

You can also try to get these, I downloaded them a while ago when they had them posted on the site, looks like you need to request them now.

http://www.heuris.com/MPEGProducts/HD_samples/

When I'm back to my HTPC I'll report on how these files play.

[stanger89]

Well I've had some time to play with the HD files again, here's my setup:
WinXP Pro SP1
DX 9.0b
Radeon 9500 (Sapphire non-pro) Cat 3.4
M-Audio Revo
P4 2.4b (533 bus)
BE7 865PE
512 Corsair 2700 LL
Sonic CP 1.5 Video/Audio Overlay
SageTV 1.4.10

Here are the results:
File Sage reported length results
Dvico files
Jang_00.tp 0 min nothing, starts then returns to Video Library
SDAD01.tp 0 min Plays, studder
SDAD02.tp 0 min Plays, studder
hdtv_demo.tp 0 min Plays, vertical black bar (see attatched), some studder
hdtv_demo2.tp 0 min Plays, vertical black bar (see attatched), some studder
jewelry1.tp 0 min Plays, vertical black bar (see attatched), some studder
jewelry2.tp 0 min Plays, vertical black bar (see attatched), some studder
scentwell1.tp 1 min Plays, studder
scentwell2.tp 1 min Plays, studder

Heuris files
STSwin32.ts 2 min Plays audio, no video
crawford.ts 2 min Plays audio, no video
emotion.ts 0 min nothing, starts then returns to Video Library
logo.ts 720p 0 min starts playing, skips to end, stays there until I force it to return to menu

All the files are 1080i unless otherwise noted. Also they all play fine in zoomplayer with the Sonic filters and elecard demux. I get the exact same behavior using both Overlay and Default.

Hope this helps.

ps. I know the attatched picture is mostly black, but the lighter area is where the picture is while playing, you should be able to see the black bar in the middle.

[RBTConsultants]

When you say they "all play fine in Zoomplayer" have you been able to seek, for example FF, REW, SKIP, etc?

My experience is that the decoders all work well, including Sonic, etc. The problem is the ELECARD DMUX does not play well with all transport streams. In Philly, for example, it only works well with 2 broadcast channels, on the others it has problems. Playback is almost fine, but seek does not work properly.

Sage DMUX has similar problems.

The ONAIR HD Editor from SASEM plays back all TS files I have tried perfectly. If Sage could use that DMUX or duplicate the functionality of that DMUX we would definitely have something.

For now, I uses the SAGE ACCESSDTV beta plugin to record HD, and ON AIR to play back, and I'm pretty happy for now. I'd love it if SAGE could fix the DMUX so I could use it for playback.

Of course, I'd also love it if they had digital channels in the EPG. If they can't get them from their data supplier, then a function to map to them so we could tell it, say that ABC is channel 64.1 so when we schedule an ABC program it would tune and record the correct channel. And I'd love it if I could choose whether to use the PVR 250 or the AccessDTV to record any particular program. Then we'd REALLY have something.

Bob

[djg]

Bob,

Relative to remapping channels, I am using the accessDTV with Sage and some, but not all, the Chicago digital channels are listed. For those not listed, I simply choose the analog channel and then remap the channel number from the analog to the digital channel number, I think by right clicking when in the channel list. Unfortunately, some of the channels broadcast digitally their analog equivalent on a different subchannel than the one Sage displays so I get some infomercials or alternate languages and there is no way within Sage to choose the subchannel.

Re the Elecard filters, I have found when viewing in Sage that some channels work on the Elecard but not with the Intervideo and vice-versa so by changing the video filter I can watch all the available channels within Sage. But that's not very convenient.

My experience with ONAIR HD Editor for playback is also very good and agree it would be great if Sage could duplicate it.

Dave

[cpete]

Let's not forget about the HiDTV card. I have one of these and it's pretty good. I also have a HiPix card, so I would like to see both supported (well I guess HiPix already is supported to some degree).

Chris

[sleonard]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
Bummer, the HiPix card is discontinued and can no longer be purchased.

There is a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178484) over at AVS forums announcing new SW for the HiPix card. Michael says in his post to email him to buy a new HiPix card. So, apparently they are still for sale :jump: