Stability problems?

[rcl]

I have a very nice SageTV setup which has been working well after months of work on it (6.5.6 server, 6.5.6 client, and HD200). The client + server have been working nicely together.

However, I thought I'd post this general question about the HD200. It hasn't been too stable since I bought it around the second week of December. I have to pull the plug on it every 2 or 3 days when I go to use it. Often it'll be in some state of distress, any one of: (1) does not turn on at all, (2) dies while watching SD content (I'm doing SD + HD, but mostly watch SD from the HD200), (3) locks up randomly such as today when I was connecting to the main server.

I am not knocking the HD200 or complaining about it at all, but just wonder if I'm alone with these problems? I don't see any other people with these issues. I have the current late December (current) HD200 software installed.

If it was only during playback when the unit died then I'd consider it related to the runtime software or my SageTV server software installation, but the unit dies at various points of execution (which I have yet to get a handle on). In general the unit does work and I can watch it for hours, but over a period of days it does need a cold reboot.

[Opus4]

There is a release version of SageTV (v6.5.9) newer than what you mentioned and a beta available in the beta forum; you should try one of those. Also, you should check the release & beta versions of the HD200 firmware to compare them to the firmwaer version you are currently using, then update since your firmware is older.

- Andy

[paulbeers]

I agree with Andy (and why wouldn't I?). Give the beta firmware a go. I am running the current Beta and it is rock solid. I have no issues with playback.

[freedml]

I have the same problems that rcl has with all 3 of my HD200s. Firmware upgrades including the current beta haven't helped. I posted my problems a week or two ago but got no replies. In addition to his problems, I also have the behavior that it, after it has been in 'screen saver' mode showing personal pictures, it just 'turns off' (red light out) when I press 'back' on the remote. As rcl said, trying to turn it on with the remote doesn't work. I have to unplug, replug, then it reboots and starts working correctly again for a day or two.

[Opus4]

I have the same problems that rcl has with all 3 of my HD200s. Firmware upgrades including the current beta haven't helped. I posted my problems a week or two ago but got no replies.Have you filed any bug reports? If not, please do so.

- Andy

[freedml]

You now have two people reporting the same problem on at least 4 HD200s with multiple versions of firmware and software.

[Opus4]

You now have two people reporting the same problem on at least 4 HD200s with multiple versions of firmware and software.I asked and was told there were no bug reports about this yet. Did you submit one? Posting on the forum is not a bug report method, btw.

- Andy

[freedml]

So if there are no 'official' bug reports then the problem doesn't exist????

[freedml]

After seemingly endless fooling around and frustration it works about 90% of the time.

THAT is one big reason why many of us are frustrated with SageTV and can't recommend it to friends or family (well, maybe we would recommend it to the family members we don't like).

Why don't you take the information in these posts and create a bug report???

[cncb]

:rolleyes: Oh my.

Be reasonable. You can't expect them to waste their time scanning the forums for possible bugs. The only way to make sure a bug is identified and hopefully fixed is to submit a bug report. It doesn't take that long.

[Opus4]

Why don't you take the information in these posts and create a bug report???It is not happening to me; it is happening to you. Why don't you just submit a bug report? That's faster than going back & forth posting about why forum posts don't count as bug reports -- the forum isn't monitored for such things and, besides, if I submitted it, how would you expect me to provide further info, get a log, test a possible solution, etc. since it doesn't happen to me?

If you have no desire to submit it to SageTV, then please don't complain if you continue to have the problem.

- Andy

[freedml]

No, I don't expect them to 'search the forums' for bugs. But, when they identify one from two different sources that isn't in the 'bug database' it is irresponsible and lazy for THEM not to create a bug report.

I have gotten a lot of personal support from some individuals at SageTV and, frankly, they sent me off to explore dead-ends more often than they helped the situation. The biggest example was spending months trying to make wMVPs work well with SageTV. They told me it works, but it just doesn't work wirelessly hardly at all. It works a little better when wired. I replaced the wMVPs with HD200s and it now works a lot of the time. But this isn't 'rocket science'. It should be able to work 99% of the time. It shouldn't require unplugging on a daily basis to keep working. It shouldn't turn itself off.

You want me to submit a bug report? How about providing link so I don't have to go searching for it???

[freedml]

It is not happening to me; it is happening to you. Why don't you just submit a bug report? That's faster than going back & forth posting about why forum posts don't count as bug reports -- the forum isn't monitored for such things and, besides, if I submitted it, how would you expect me to provide further info, get a log, test a possible solution, etc. since it doesn't happen to me?

- Andy

Ask me.

[matt91]

Dude, people aren't going to feed this stuff to you on a spoon. You gotta be willing to do a little work yourself.

However, i'll be the good Samaritan and point out that Andy's sig line has the link contained therein.

Matt



_________________
SageTV v6.5.11 Beta is available here (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39920); use the Bug Submission Form (http://www.sagetv.com/bugs.html) to submit bugs.
- Read the SageTV FAQ (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1601) and PDF User's Guides for SageTV V6.5 (http://download.sage.tv/SageTV_Manual.pdf) & SageTV Studio v6.5 (http://download.sage.tv/SageTVStudio_UserGuide.pdf).
- Hauppauge remote help: 1) Basics/Extending it (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4277) 2) Replace it (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4229) 3) Use it w/o needing focus (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5253)
- HD Extenders: A) FAQs (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28940) B) URC MX-700 remote setup (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28959)
Note: This is a users' forum; see the Rules (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10240). For official tech support fill out a Support Request (http://sage.tv/request.html).




You want me to submit a bug report? How about providing link so I don't have to go searching for it???

[aflat]

No, I don't expect them to 'search the forums' for bugs. But, when they identify one from two different sources that isn't in the 'bug database' it is irresponsible and lazy for THEM not to create a bug report.

I have gotten a lot of personal support from some individuals at SageTV and, frankly, they sent me off to explore dead-ends more often than they helped the situation. The biggest example was spending months trying to make wMVPs work well with SageTV. They told me it works, but it just doesn't work wirelessly hardly at all. It works a little better when wired. I replaced the wMVPs with HD200s and it now works a lot of the time. But this isn't 'rocket science'. It should be able to work 99% of the time. It shouldn't require unplugging on a daily basis to keep working. It shouldn't turn itself off.

You want me to submit a bug report? How about providing link so I don't have to go searching for it???

I guess you must have missed the line in his signature that says "use the Bug Submission Form to submit bugs." with a clickable link to the bug submission form?

On a side note, from the main sagetv.com page, is there a clickable way to submit a bug? I know how to, and I know I can submit a support request, but I don't see a way to get to the submit bug report from the sagetv.com page.

[freedml]

Don't give me crap, matt91. I have spent months and months and way over $1000 getting this to work only 'so-so.' I have paid my dues.

Andy should have pointed the bug report link out to me (I tend to tune out sig lines, especially multi-line ones). I had no idea where it was and wasn't going to go searching for it. Guess that was smart since aflat can't find it on the website, which is where I would have gone to look.

SageTV always points people to this discussion board for support, so it SHOULD pick up multiple reports of the same bug and start an investigation.

[Clift]

I guess you must have missed the line in his signature that says "use the Bug Submission Form to submit bugs." with a clickable link to the bug submission form?

On a side note, from the main sagetv.com page, is there a clickable way to submit a bug? I know how to, and I know I can submit a support request, but I don't see a way to get to the submit bug report from the sagetv.com page.

Homepage -> Support -> Request Support
http://www.sagetv.com/request.html

[Opus4]

On a side note, from the main sagetv.com page, is there a clickable way to submit a bug? I know how to, and I know I can submit a support request, but I don't see a way to get to the submit bug report from the sagetv.com page.As far as I know, the product info pages don't link to beta downloads & therefore also don't link to the bug report form used for betas. Since the betas are released to forum users, there is a link in most beta release posts and on the main forum page, as part of the "SageTV BETA Release Products " section.

- Andy

[gplasky]

No, I don't expect them to 'search the forums' for bugs. But, when they identify one from two different sources that isn't in the 'bug database' it is irresponsible and lazy for THEM not to create a bug report.


They and THEM is you. Just file the report if you want it fixed. This is a user forum-not a support forum. The links are in signatures, SageTV manual and in the FAQs. You can't expect to be spoonfed this stuff.

Gerry

[HelenWeathers]

Actually you want to use the support request that clift mentioned rather than the bug report in Andy's link. Bug reports are not responded to (unless there has been a change in policy), just recreated in house and fixed (hopefully) for future releases.

A support request generates a repsonse.

Not everyone is having this issue, so report it as soon as possible.

EDIT: From the bug submission form: "Please note that we will not be responding to the information on this form. For general Technical Support please use our Support Request form."

From the SageTV Support page: "If you're having problems, please check our Troubleshooting FAQs or use our online Discussion Forums to interact with other SageTV customers. If you still can't find the information you need, then please submit a support request to us."

[Opus4]

Actually you want to use the support request that clift mentioned rather than the bug report in Andy's link. Bug reports are not responded to (unless there has been a change in policy), just recreated in house and fixed (hopefully) for future releases.Please submit a bug report, as I stated. It was mentioned that a beta is being used; all beta issues should be reported via the bug report form.

The form states that they won't be responding to info in the form, but if a follow-up is needed, then the submitter will receive an email. Essentially, there is no automated response and there will be no response from a developer if none is needed.

- Andy

[ractar28]

They and THEM is you. Just file the report if you want it fixed. This is a user forum-not a support forum. The links are in signatures, SageTV manual and in the FAQs. You can't expect to be spoonfed this stuff.


I'm sorry, but I disagree with the "spoonfed" portion. SageTV is a product that you must pay for. Therefore, support is to be expected (unless otherwise stated).

While I agree that freedml is asking a bit much, I don't believe your response was reasonable either.

Freedml,

Here's where I think you got unreasonable. You mentioned that multiple people, multiple devices, and multiple firmware/software revisions were reporting the same symptoms. However, in order for any support organization to assist, they are going to want more information. You need to provide them with that information, unfortunately, in the method they request it (support request form).

I agree about signatures being skipped over, and I understand your frustration. However, let's say your media server is a store-bought model 4800 and you added a hooptie-500 tuner. Well, hmmm, maybe SageTV or one of the techs owns a model 4800 and they have a hooptie-500 in house for testing. They combine the two with a HD-200 and can't replicate the issue. Fine, they contact you and ask you to swap your hd-200 for another one and send them the one you're having issues with. If they still can't replicate the issue, someone going above and beyond might actually ask you to take an "image" of your server, so they can load the image and try to replicate the issue. Meanwhile, does the new hd-200 they sent you have the same issues?

However, until they get information from you (the information they want, in the format they want it in), you're saying little more than "my hd-200 isn't working right", which truly isn't helpful from a support perspective.

What hobbyists/enthusiasts sometimes forget is that some folks just want to buy the product, plug it in, and have it work -- first time, every time. You PAID for that, you should get it. Now if you choose to run ESX 3.5 with 1 gig of RAM and load 14 guest operating systems, then you're making your own bed and can't expect the same "plug it in and it works" results or even support that a basic user-setup would get. Enthusiasts ACCEPT that they are partially on their own for support and expect you to accept the same terms -- but that's not what you signed up for.

[ractar28]

The form states that they won't be responding to info in the form, but if a follow-up is needed, then the submitter will receive an email. Essentially, there is no automated response and there will be no response from a developer if none is needed.


Is there a tracking method for the user? The "bug report black hole" is annoying. If I submit a bug report, I'd like to know the status, such as "unable to reproduce", "reproduced error, working on fix", "issue will be fixed in release x.xx", etc.

[gplasky]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the "spoonfed" portion. SageTV is a product that you must pay for. Therefore, support is to be expected (unless otherwise stated).

While I agree that freedml is asking a bit much, I don't believe your response was reasonable either.
Welcome. I see you are a new user so it may make sense to get a little familar with the site starting with the FAQs and the user manual. This is a user to user forum and not an official support forum manned by SageTV. Of course support is expected with a purchased product. And if you read the website, the forum, the FAQ, helpful signature lines and the product manual you will know how to file an official support request. For any beta versions a lot of the same sources provides you with a link to the official bug report you need to fill out. The "spoonfed" comment may have been a bit harsh but if you ever purchased software before and had an issue you would look in these same places on almost any site to find out what to do. If you look at the conversation he didn't want to file a bug report at all and felt he shouldn't have to.



Is there a tracking method for the user? The "bug report black hole" is annoying. If I submit a bug report, I'd like to know the status, such as "unable to reproduce", "reproduced error, working on fix", "issue will be fixed in release x.xx", etc.
No there is no tracking method. Support has been very good in following up with a user, requesting logs and information and providing a status via email. That is the mechanism they have in place for both support requests and bug reports. (No tracking facility) Please start with the FAQ's in the forum to understand the way things work around here. Once you are familiar with the process it makes everything a whole lot easier.

Gerry

[freedml]

I have bought a lot of programs and have often gotten support for them. I have never had as much hassle as I have had with SageTV.

Ok, so I filed a 'bug report' (since most bugs aren't bugs, why not just have a 'support request' and then classify it as a 'bug' when you determine that's the cause?). After going back and forth twice, it turns out that my SageTV server is 6.3 and should be 6.5 to support the HD200s (not that I think this will solve the problem, but it's worth a try). Now, why did this take more than one debug file to be sent? Even more damning, why didn't the HD200 ever give a message "SageTV Server version should be 6.5 or higher".

One of the big problems with SageTV is that it just does what it thinks it should do without either checking its environment or giving you the tools to debug the environment. I struggled with wireless-g for weeks being told that it should work. It barely works for SD, not at all for anything higher. Even the wireless commands and application loading were deadly slow, so it wasn't just a bandwidth issue. Even after wiring the MVPs, the server was so tied up with transcoding that it didn't work well. So I bought HD200s to eliminate the transcoding. I wasted tons of time and money on 3 wMVPs and SageTV licenses for them.

I also tried to use Placeshifter, but it just assumes there's always enough bandwidth on the local network for anything. So, it doesn't work on my local network. If I tweak the settings for my local network then I lose functionality over the internet.

Getting through the firewall and router is too damn complicated. My other applications have no problem setting themselves up to get through, but SageTV just can't do it by itself.

I was directed to the forums for support early on. I had one round of email support which was very frustrating since I got one email with one more question once a day. It took weeks to try to get down to the actual problem, which we never got to.

In short, SageTV is still at the 'hobbyist' level. Hobbyist operation and hobbyist support. I hope either SageTV gets a whole lot better or something else comes along that solves these problems.

[paulbeers]

So you were still on 6.3 even though everything states to run 6.5 with the HD200? And who told you that Wireless-G should work? I haven't seen anyone recommend Wireless-G.....that lesson was learned years ago with the Wireless MVP. It sounds to me like you didn't research how to use the HD200 and didn't research the limitations of Wireless networking and video....

[freedml]

Yes, I am still on 6.3. 'Everything' needs to include a message on-screen on the HD200!

Yes, a tech at SageTV kept telling me that wireless G should work. Last August.

If SageTV wants to get beyond the 'hobbyist' category it can't depend on users to 'research' how to configure or install its products or products it claims to support.

For instance, I assumed that MVPs were better since I wasn't using HDTVs yet. And I really didn't want to wire the house if I didn't have to. And, I have always liked Hauppauge hardware even if their software was terrrible. WRONG. The TV doesn't matter, an HD extender is needed to eliminate transcoding on the server. I don't think any amount of 'research' would have turned up that consideration for someone new to HDTV. etc .etc. etc.

[gplasky]

Yes, I am still on 6.3. 'Everything' needs to include a message on-screen on the HD200!

Yes, a tech at SageTV kept telling me that wireless G should work. Last August.

If SageTV wants to get beyond the 'hobbyist' category it can't depend on users to 'research' how to configure or install its products or products it claims to support.

For instance, I assumed that MVPs were better since I wasn't using HDTVs yet. And I really didn't want to wire the house if I didn't have to. And, I have always liked Hauppauge hardware even if their software was terrrible. WRONG. The TV doesn't matter, an HD extender is needed to eliminate transcoding on the server. I don't think any amount of 'research' would have turned up that consideration for someone new to HDTV. etc .etc. etc.

From the home page on the Sage website *Watching live or recorded HDTV requires optional SageTV Media Center Version 6.5 or later, a PC/Mac and HD TV Tuner)I don't think it is necessary for it to come onscreen if you just read on the website.

As far as wireless-G yes it should work. But not well. Any search for wireless on the forums will bring up tons of threads of how well it doesn't work. For either SD or HD. SOme use it-but very few. And even Windows Media Center recommends you DON'T use wireless for streaming.

Never assume. I'm not sure why you would assume 4 year old hardware would work better than hardware just recently developed. And again any search would come up with those comments regarding MVP vs. HD Extender playback. In the stickies of the Media Extender forum you have a sticky called "Love it, love it, love." with tons of comments of users saying how much better the HD Extenders are over the MVP for both SD and HD viewing and how they are getting rid of their MVPs.

And maybe Sage wants to stay in the 'hobbyist' category. Maybe it is their niche market. When a product is based on client/server technology and a home network becomes a requirement for multiple room viewing with network shares and other technology like a NAS can be used it does tend to go a little beyond your typical Windows XP and Microsoft Office installation.

Gerry

[freedml]

Four reasons I started with wMVPs:

No wiring.

SageTV said it would work.

Hauppauge makes good hardware.

It made sense to me to buy 4 year old SD extenders to convert 10 year old SD TVs. I didn't expect a debilitating 'transcoding' burden on the server.

One expensive lesson -- I found out that I vastly prefer the Hauppauge remote layout to the SageTV remote's undifferentiated buttons.

[Slack]

What hobbyists/enthusiasts sometimes forget is that some folks just want to buy the product, plug it in, and have it work -- first time, every time.

If that was what the OP wanted - why record TV on a PC at all??

Psst. Hey freedml, I have 3 ReplayTVs (all lifetime, 2 upgraded), and spare RTV motherboard, and a Samsung SIR-T451 OTA tuner that can downconvert OTA HD to anamorphic 16:9 for one the said RTVs. That I would happily trade you for one or more HD200s. The RTVS are stellar at room-room streaming of SD.

One comment on support requests.... Sage need to re-vamp the forms. There is NOTHING in them regarding extenders. It's like it's still only about PC software.

[paulbeers]

From the home page on the Sage website I don't think it is necessary for it to come onscreen if you just read on the website.


Also when I got my HD200, it came with a sheet of paper that stated specifically I needed to be running 6.5.....

[Rezolution]

Based on the amount of complaints that you have about the SageTV products, I think you should buy some Tivos. You'll be happier.

[Narflex]

FYI,

freedml's problem was completely solved by simply upgrading to V6.5 (which is required for using the HD200)

[freedml]

Also when I got my HD200, it came with a sheet of paper that stated specifically I needed to be running 6.5.....

My sheet of paper said "make sure you are using the current beta version of Sage..."

I don't know about you, but when I don't trust software in the first place (and Sage is a long way from earning my trust), I sure don't go experimenting with beta versions. Upgrading is a little more time-consuming because I don't feel safe unless I do a full backup with Disaster Recovery prep before trying the upgrade.

Latest example: I upgraded to 6.5 as suggested. Sage barely worked. It was transcoding which it hadn't done since I got rid of my MVPs. I was almost ready to dump it right there but it was really late and I was tired. When I woke up in the morning it was back to normal (and not improved).

I was later told that upgrading to 6.5 caused an immediate and massive reindexing of my videos. WHY CAN'T YOU PUT UP A MESSAGE SAYING THAT THIS IS HAPPENING???? Maybe even with a progress bar and an estimate of when it will be done like most programs.

This caused SageTV barely to work at all until morning, and when it did work for some reason it thought it needed to transcode, so it did.

On top of that, errors in some of the files caused massive amounts of error logging (which I'm told has already been 'corrected' for the next release).

[freedml]

FYI,

freedml's problem was completely solved by simply upgrading to V6.5 (which is required for using the HD200)

Ask anyone in my family, problems have NOT been completely solved!

Stuttering playback has definitely NOT been solved. I still think this is buffering problem since a 2s rewind plays the problem passage correctly and acceptable playback continues for 5-10 seconds. But it's pretty irritating to have to rewind 2s every 10s.

The problem where HD200s spontaneously disconnect or turn themselves off or freeze and need a cold boot may have disappeared -- I got in the habit of shutting them off after each use as a workaround, so I need to leave them on for a while to see what they do.


to Rezolution: Five reasons I chose Sage over Tivo -- no subscription fees, whole house system, watching and programming via internet, general media solution (personal photos/videos, internet resources) and comskip function.

[freedml]

FYI,

freedml's problem was completely solved by simply upgrading to V6.5 (which is required for using the HD200)

Had to cold boot an HD200 this morning...

[rswoods]

Had to cold boot an HD200 this morning...

I haven't had to cold-reboot my HD200 since sometime in December. I'm very happy with my Sage system. I run a Win2k3 server in the basement hosting SageTV, an HDHR tuner, two SageClient PCs, and an HD200 for our main TV. Everything just works.

[gplasky]

Had to cold boot an HD200 this morning...

Suggestions:

If you had to cold boot the HD200 to get it to connect then I would start diagnosing the NOC on the server, the switch and the network cables being used. If it is gigabit ethernet make sure the cables are at least Cat 5e ot Cat 6 at best. Make sure all devices are on one subnet and each has a legitimate IP address.

With the transcoding issue do you have any existing files in the Import directories for music, videos and photos? If so start out new by removing those from Sage. Now create new directories on your shares with no files in them. Set these new directories up as Import directories for videos, music and photos. Now reboot your Sage server and see if the transcoder is still running hard. If not you have probably solved your issue and there may be corrupt files that you originally had in there. You can start copying the files back in the new directories in logical succesion until you see the transcoder issue again. Use a process of eliminationto figure out the file(s).

Gerry

[mangriotis]

Ask anyone in my family, problems have NOT been completely solved!

Stuttering playback has definitely NOT been solved. I still think this is buffering problem since a 2s rewind plays the problem passage correctly and acceptable playback continues for 5-10 seconds. But it's pretty irritating to have to rewind 2s every 10s.

The problem where HD200s spontaneously disconnect or turn themselves off or freeze and need a cold boot may have disappeared -- I got in the habit of shutting them off after each use as a workaround, so I need to leave them on for a while to see what they do.


to Rezolution: Five reasons I chose Sage over Tivo -- no subscription fees, whole house system, watching and programming via internet, general media solution (personal photos/videos, internet resources) and comskip function.

I notice you mention comskip... I had a recent stuttering issue similar to what you describe, and it was due to comskip and disk access. We were watching an HD show on HD200, and it would play ok for 10-20s, but then freeze every couple of seconds. A jump back would make it ok for another short period of time. I killed the comskip process. I am using Dirmon2 to manage comskip, ticked the "only run comskip when disk is idle", and restarted it. I haven't had an issue since.

I also had numerous instances where the HD200 would shut off and be unusable until a hard reset (i.e. unplugging it). This was solved by upgrading my server hardware. I was getting java errors on the server machine (I think it was running out of either RAM or CPU or both), resulting in a disconnect to the HD200. Since upgrading, I have never had to unplug the HD200.

[rmac321]

I also had numerous instances where the HD200 would shut off and be unusable until a hard reset (i.e. unplugging it). This was solved by upgrading my server hardware. I was getting java errors on the server machine (I think it was running out of either RAM or CPU or both), resulting in a disconnect to the HD200. Since upgrading, I have never had to unplug the HD200.

Another thought on those lines would be to check the JVM Heap size. Things can get unstable when you run out of memory and since you have a lot of videos being scanned. you are likely in need of changing this registry entry. Do a search on JVM Heap Size if you need more info, there are a couple good threads.

[gmcgann]

I generally have to reboot my HD200 every day. In 3 months of using this, here's what I get:

Locks up during:

Screensaver - 90% of the time
Overnight - 99%
During paused video - 15%
While connecting to browse the network - 10%
When turning off - 5%
When updating video lists - 50%

It's standalone connecting to a network MediaSmart server.

[freedml]

Getting rid of ComskipMonitor helped tremendously. I had already set Comskip to run when no one was watching, but apparently ComskipMonitor can cause problems all by itself.

I still have to reboot every couple of days as the 'System' process starts nice and low but creeps up and starts causing problems when it hits 30. Anyone have any suggestions how to keep it low without rebooting?

[Opus4]

gmcgann: Have you updated the firmware? If you are already running the beta firmware, have you contacted SageTV via a bug report?

- Andy

[freedml]

When you say 'reboot' do you mean unplug it or push the power button on the remote?

Try the 'home' or 'go' button on the remote -- it will try to restart the HD200 without 'rebooting' completely.

[gmcgann]

When you say 'reboot' do you mean unplug it or push the power button on the remote?

Try the 'home' or 'go' button on the remote -- it will try to restart the HD200 without 'rebooting' completely.



I'm running the latest beta firmware, and by reboot I mean unplug/replug. It does not respond to any commands on the unit or the remote.

[freedml]

I end up doing that every day or two. I'm using it with SageTV, not standalone, although my biggest problems are when it goes into screensaver mode or when rebooting the server.

[DaveW42]

If you need to reboot, a great alternative to manually plugging and unplugging is described here:

link (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=334743&postcount=9)

As an aside, as a new SageTV HD200 owner I must say that I have been extremely happy with the responsiveness of Andy and the SageTV team. Is the product perfect? No. But it's pretty darn cool and it keeps getting better every day.

[cat6man]

how does this work with a media player, not an extender, that doesn't have sageTV? i'm confused

[DaveW42]

Cat6man,

Were you referring to my post? I guess that makes two of us that are confused :) The procedure that I referenced involves a script that can be run to reboot the HD200, regardless of whether it is in standalone mode or if it is connected to the SageTV server. The procedure only affects the HD200.

Dave

[cat6man]

i guess i was wondering if the script could be run from the hd200 menu somehow (ideal) or if i needed to launch it from a networked pc (not so ideal) or if it ran in sageTV (irrelevant for stand alone media players)

it would be great if this could be accessed from the setup menu somehow, similar to the refresh command (on the other hand,
if the machine is somehow locked up wrt remote commands, that wouldn't help now would it)

[mangriotis]

What you are asking for (I think) can be easily accomplished by adding a dynamic menu "external command" within SageTV on the HD200.

This command could call the script to perform a reboot on the HD200.

Like you stated though, if the HD200 is non-responsive (or in standalone mode) this would not help you.

[DaveW42]

What if you got one of those USB UIRT receivers, and then associated an IR command on your remote with the reboot routine (e.g., trigger a reboot via Eventghost)? I should note that I don't have any experience with either the USB UIRT or Eventghost, so I am really just speculating here.

Dave

[bjkiller]

Somebody expierenced such problem?
video stuck, for 10-15 sec. after it's the LED start blinking fast, and it's play the stucked seconds very fast...and after it's come with audio track sync and video play OK.

some time on latest firmware - it's stuck and rebooted.

[gmcgann]

I'm still having the problem with the unit freezing. I have to reboot pretty much every day before I can use it. Right now I was in the middle of a movie and it just froze, so I'm waiting for it to reboot now.

[freedml]

I've gone back to 20090429, which I think was the version that caused me the fewest problems...

[ma22xx]

I'm still having the problem with the unit freezing. I have to reboot pretty much every day before I can use it. Right now I was in the middle of a movie and it just froze, so I'm waiting for it to reboot now.

Not sure if this is your issue or not but I was having the exact same problem. I have a HD200 in my bedroom and just use it for watching the late show at night. Pretty much every night I'd have to pull power on the unit before I could use it. Some nights it would lock up during the one hour of use.

I was troubleshooting the other night and noticed the ip was picking up a 192.168 address which is wierd because my local network is all 10.0 addresses. I set it to static and hardcoded an ip and the units become WAY more reliable. Not only does it no longer lock up on a regular basis but it also now plays my backed up Blu-Rays without skipping which it would not do before. I'm not sure why the Blu-Rays work, but my guess on the lock ups is that for whatever reason the HD200 is losing the network connection(I suspect a spotty network cable run which I was going to eventually replace but might not have to now) and then tries to reaquire an ip via dhcp but is failing so it picks a standard 192.168 address. This doesn't work on my network so the box basically locks up. Now that it's hardcoded it just reuses the good ip whenever the connection drops off and comes back. I tested this by rebooting my router...with the static ip I just see a second freeze on playing video which then picks back up. With the dynamic ip it does a hard lock and never comes back...loses remote control.

[freedml]

Same problems here. I had a bad HD200 which, when it failed, caused all 3 HD200s to fail. Now that it has been replaced I am back to just the 'old' problems (locking up, turning themselves off, unable to restart without pulling the plug) and just one unit at a time.

For starters, the HD200 needs an overall 'watchdog' subroutine which will turn the unit 'off' or 'on' (with cold boot like after a firmware upgrade) from the remote control no matter what the status is, eliminating the 'get up and pull the plug' workaround.

Or maybe I'll buy a 'Clapper' for each HD200... ;)

[danOO00]

Wow- I was under the impression that the HD200 would finally make my SageTV setup family friendly. I have not bought the unit yet, but was about to pull the trigger soon. My family room HTPC client is in need of upgrade, so I figured the HD200 would be a plug and play alternative than the usual PC upgrade/configuration game.

I guess, my question is regarding the overall stability of the box.. are the posts here the norm for most users (unplug reboots needed frequently, lockups, etc), or are there actual people out here who have NO problems with the HD200? I am looking forward to the week when the old lady has nothing but good to say about the Sage setup... any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dan

[doc]

I guess, my question is regarding the overall stability of the box.. are the posts here the norm for most users (unplug reboots needed frequently, lockups, etc), or are there actual people out here who have NO problems with the HD200? I am looking forward to the week when the old lady has nothing but good to say about the Sage setup... any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dan

Dan, I can't speak for the people posting here only for myself.

I use the HD200 every day and physically power off at night when I'm finished. The only time its ever locked up on me is when my server has crashed, and so not the HD200's fault at all.

I started off using a client, then an MVP, and then onto HD100 and 200's.
The difference is unbelievable. I wouldn't go back now if you paid me.

[danOO00]

Sounds encouraging. I should just give it a shot, it cant be worse than my current client.

The server is up for ~40 days now without issue, so I am pretty happy on that front.

Thanks doc

[johnnybwis]

Dan, I can't speak for the people posting here only for myself.

I use the HD200 every day and physically power off at night when I'm finished. The only time its ever locked up on me is when my server has crashed, and so not the HD200's fault at all.

I started off using a client, then an MVP, and then onto HD100 and 200's.
The difference is unbelievable. I wouldn't go back now if you paid me.

I assume you are not using the HD 200 in standalone? I am looking to get more reliability and would consider adding the sage server. I don't really want to do that as the reason I bought the HD 200 was to run one less pc. I plan on still using my Dish receiver for HDTV so it looks like I could get by with a low power pc.

[gplasky]

I assume you are not using the HD 200 in standalone? I am looking to get more reliability and would consider adding the sage server. I don't really want to do that as the reason I bought the HD 200 was to run one less pc. I plan on still using my Dish receiver for HDTV so it looks like I could get by with a low power pc.

You know with the HD200 in stand alone mode you have no capability of capturing any TV from any source like your Dish TV. You would need a PC and the SageTV server software to even begin recording TV.

Gerry

[comet48]

Wow- I was under the impression that the HD200 would finally make my SageTV setup family friendly. I have not bought the unit yet, but was about to pull the trigger soon. My family room HTPC client is in need of upgrade, so I figured the HD200 would be a plug and play alternative than the usual PC upgrade/configuration game.

I guess, my question is regarding the overall stability of the box.. are the posts here the norm for most users (unplug reboots needed frequently, lockups, etc), or are there actual people out here who have NO problems with the HD200? I am looking forward to the week when the old lady has nothing but good to say about the Sage setup... any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dan
I've had my hd-200 since it first shipped. I've updated to every firmware release they've had. Unfortunately turning itself off on a regular basis has been an issue from day one. It's a pretty unstable product. One has to question their development team and their testing methadology.

I won't buy another one although I'd love to have a couple more if they ever worked correctly. It's a great idea poorly implemented!!!

[johnnybwis]

You know with the HD200 in stand alone mode you have no capability of capturing any TV from any source like your Dish TV. You would need a PC and the SageTV server software to even begin recording TV.

Gerry
The Dish is a HD DVR Reciever. This fits my needs. The HD200 is fine for playing back DVD's but thats about it. I would like to view the online content from the HD200 without the lock ups, reboots etc. would running the Sage server do anything for me in this scenario?

[freedml]

"Physically power off every night" -- do you unplug it, or are you pushing 'power' on the remote?

I would say that there is a significant chance that you will have problems, and a significant chance that SageTV won't diagnose or solve the problem in a reasonable period of time if ever. As long as those are your expectations then you will probably be happy with the HD200.

[doc]

I assume you are not using the HD 200 in standalone?

Correct, I use it in extender mode.

I haven't really used it in standalone mode other than to do firmware updates.


"Physically power off every night" -- do you unplug it, or are you pushing 'power' on the remote?


I have a 4 way extension plugged into the wall socket which powers the TV, HD200 and AV receiver. I switch the socket off at the wall when the TV's not being used.

[jaminben]

I've had my hd-200 since it first shipped. I've updated to every firmware release they've had. Unfortunately turning itself off on a regular basis has been an issue from day one. It's a pretty unstable product. One has to question their development team and their testing methadology.

I won't buy another one although I'd love to have a couple more if they ever worked correctly. It's a great idea poorly implemented!!!

A voice from a happy customer.

I've had both the HD100 (x2) and HD200 since they were released (first batch for both) and I have no issues with stability..... at all.
Mine are always switched on and only ever go into standby at the end of the evening until the next day.
I probably see one lockup every other month and thats usually because I've just upgraded the firmware or Sage server. All three units get abused by family members on a daily basis and they still keep working.

It did take awhile to get my setup running like this but it was always down to user error rather than poor product design.

Love mine and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to friends and family.

:D

[_Demo_]

I've had my hd-200 since it first shipped. I've updated to every firmware release they've had. Unfortunately turning itself off on a regular basis has been an issue from day one. It's a pretty unstable product. One has to question their development team and their testing methadology.

I won't buy another one although I'd love to have a couple more if they ever worked correctly. It's a great idea poorly implemented!!!

Could you give me more details on what happens or contact support to provide logs of the issue? The HD200 should be stable for many days. I have one for example that has been running for 24 days (when I had applied the 0702 firmware update)

Thanks

_Demo_

[johnnybwis]

A voice from a happy customer.

I've had both the HD100 (x2) and HD200 since they were released (first batch for both) and I have no issues with stability..... at all.
Mine are always switched on and only ever go into standby at the end of the evening until the next day.
I probably see one lockup every other month and thats usually because I've just upgraded the firmware or Sage server. All three units get abused by family members on a daily basis and they still keep working.

It did take awhile to get my setup running like this but it was always down to user error rather than poor product design.

Love mine and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to friends and family.

:D

It looks like you also are using SageTV 6.5.6. I guess I will just have to load that up and see for myself if I gain anything with reliabilty when using the HD200 as an extender.

[jaminben]

It looks like you also are using SageTV 6.5.6. I guess I will just have to load that up and see for myself if I gain anything with reliabilty when using the HD200 as an extender.

I'm not using 6.5.6 but 6.5.20 (not updated to 6.6...yet) I just haven't updated my sig in awhile.

The biggest and most single important thing that I did to make my system rock solid was to dump XP/Vista and move to WHS. With XP I'd get a lockup or server crash at least once a week, Vista just never worked for me. However others have had good results with these OS's so I guess its down to user error on my part again.

:blush:

[freedml]

I think the HD200 has a problem dealing with imperfect recordings. I am in a fringe OTA area and after varying amounts of play it just locks up and needs a cold boot. It seems to happen sooner the worse the files are.

[Dave62]

Any chance the lockups people report could be partially caused by power problems ? A UPS would solve it. I leave my HD200 powered off (power strip turned off) when not in use. I haven't had any problems with it.

[freedml]

If you're leaving it without power, then you're doing a 'cold boot' each time which is the way we solve the problem, but it takes a while to boot compared to leaving it on and ready to go.

We shouldn't have to live with any consumer electronics product having problems just because you leave it on.

[_Demo_]

I think the HD200 has a problem dealing with imperfect recordings. I am in a fringe OTA area and after varying amounts of play it just locks up and needs a cold boot. It seems to happen sooner the worse the files are.

Could you try to note which files it happens on and see if you can reproduce it?

Thanks

_Demo_

[Dave62]

If you're leaving it without power, then you're doing a 'cold boot' each time which is the way we solve the problem, but it takes a while to boot compared to leaving it on and ready to go.

We shouldn't have to live with any consumer electronics product having problems just because you leave it on.

Certainly you're correct. I just mentioned it to add another data point to the public discussion.

My main point was about using a UPS. You're much more likely to encounter a power problem if the device is on 24x7

[freedml]

I don't think that's much of a possibility. First, other people are reporting the same behavior. Second, it's running on DC from a wall converter, also unlikely to pass problems through to the HD200.

[freedml]

It usually doesn't happen after a cold boot from playing just one show. It's usually after a while, about once a day per HD200, so I haven't been able to find one file that can make it do that. I'll try again.

[ajuhawk]

I recently updated to the latest firmware and 6.6 on my WHS machine and now my HD200 won't stay "on". Anytime I want to use it I have to un-plug/plug to get it to boot up again. Has anyone else run into this? Is there a solution? It was working fairly well before the latest firmware and was always problematic when I tried the betas...I was hoping they'd fixed it prior to release, but I may be forced to figure out how to go back a version.

Thoughts?

Some test results:
I telnet-ed into the box so I could hopefully get some idea as to why my box keeps "dying"...well, the good/bad news is that by being connected to the box everything seems to be as stable as can be. Seems like some of the HD-200's instability may be because it isn't keeping it's network port active enough or something....??? I have switched both my server and the HD-200 to static IPs in the hope of that helping (it didn't).

[spaceghost]

My HD200 also has lockup issues and I have to cold boot it to get it to play again. Everyday it locks up and it drives me crazy. When I say lockup issue I mean I will be watching a movie and it will stop and the screen will go black. I can click stop on the remote and get back to the menus. I can navigate the menu's just fine but I will not be able to play another movie, listen to music, or watch online videos until I cold boot the HD200. I can however browse thru my pictures, but can't do anything related to playing video/audio. The Green LED on the front still blinks like crazy, like it's receiving the file/video, but no video/audio.

It works fine after a cold boot, at least until the next night when I start having problems again.

I am running Sage 6.5.20 and 20090702 on the HD200. How can I get back to version 20090429? That seemed to also cause me the least amount of issues.

I watch only bluray, divx hd, or HDPVR HD recordings. I do not watch SD material (on my HD200 at least). I pray for a firmware updates and have not submitted any bugs/requests. Each firmware version seems to be different, some good some bad as far as stability. Oh and if it matters, I'm using the component cables.

I've tried the Java Heap Size, Static IP or DHCP, rebooting the server, stop/starting the sharing again (which I found out actually shuts off the HD200). I'm a network tech by day and have tried different cables, routers and switches. Any further issues I should look into?

[freedml]

try this http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...0&postcount=16

[ehanekla]

try this http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...0&postcount=16

hi!
I'm curious too! Please check your link!

[flavius]

My HD200 also has lockup issues ...Any further issues I should look into?
I'd say you do submit that bug report.

[spaceghost]

I filled out a support request. Thanks all.

[ajuhawk]

try this http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...0&postcount=16

Any update on a working link?

In other news, telnetting into my box continues to cause the box to work correctly.

[hockeyfan]

I was really surprised when I read this thread. I have 2 hd-100's and 2 hd-200 and 3 sagetvclients. I have had zero problems with stability of the extenders. I find that after a month or so our server just "shuts down" I'm assuming that some memory over run, no biggie.

On regular use one of the HD-200 is turned off using remote. The other (in the living room) is sent to standby all the time (we use a media center remote) and it has zero issues. I've read hints of issues about certain file recordings causing problem, this makes me believe that is more of the problem.

For the record I use 2 HD-PVRs for HD and a PVR 150 for SD and another HVR-1800 for the second SD stream.

Too bad you guys are having issues with the hd-200. It's one of the few products I use that I actually am impressed with. Hope they solve them soon for you.

[ajuhawk]

hockeyfan - what firmware / server versions of Sage are you running?

[johnnybwis]

This is the thread for the stand alone unit. Seems that people posting here are using it in the extender mode. And that it works well for them.

[ajuhawk]

This is the thread for the stand alone unit. Seems that people posting here are using it in the extender mode. And that it works well for them.

Most of this thread seems to be about people using it in extender mode and having lots of issues, myself included...(see the first post)

[hockeyfan]

Good point, I'm using it in extender mode only. I'm using the latest *release* of sage firmware. I'm one version back on sage server because they released a version a few days after so that would be version 6.6.1.2. I typically only use their release version because I get veto'd at home when beta versions come out.

[cheekymonkey]

My HD200 also has lockup issues and I have to cold boot it to get it to play again. Everyday it locks up and it drives me crazy. When I say lockup issue I mean I will be watching a movie and it will stop and the screen will go black. I can click stop on the remote and get back to the menus. I can navigate the menu's just fine but I will not be able to play another movie, listen to music, or watch online videos until I cold boot the HD200. I can however browse thru my pictures, but can't do anything related to playing video/audio. The Green LED on the front still blinks like crazy, like it's receiving the file/video, but no video/audio.

It works fine after a cold boot, at least until the next night when I start having problems again.



1 of my HD200's just started doing this exact same thing and found this thread. They are both running 20090805. I swapped the plug-packs and the problem followed, I'm going to have a look around for another plugpack to try

They were purchased 2months apart and the one that has gone faulty was purchased Dec 2008.

[cheekymonkey]

damm spoke too soon. The problem HD200 ran for 3 hrs on live TV but after turning it on to watch a recorded show it only lasted about 40min. The search continues

[spaceghost]

I've been working with the tech support folks for a while now. Sent several logs with no luck so far. They've been really nice and continue to work with me. I do not see anything strange in the logs besides a few things last night.

#1-java.io.IOException: An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine

I received the above error after I was watching a small clip. The HD200 shut off immediately after the clip finished. Looking at the system logs of my host server (Event Viewer) I noticed I received a DHCP renewal error. Looking thru my system log, I receive the DHCP error every night when it renews. Remembering what happened when I shut down the Sagetv service (and restarting the service), the HD200 shut off then too. Seems like whenever it loses connection to the service on the host PC it shuts off.

#2-After the HD200 shut down I could no longer play videos. Looking in the logs I noticed this error (about every second):

v000 a000 stc 46737 a 0 v 0 (0)
audio pts is smaller than stc, entering paused mode

After I cold booted the HD200, the video plays fine and the log shows this about every second:

v000 a000 stc 641147 a 0 v 0 (363938)

I also noticed I could go much longer without an issue if I made sure I actually pushed STOP on the remote. Watching a video to the end of the file I get EOF.Exception error. If you notice, after the HD200 gets to the end of a file it returns to the menu, if you press LEFT enough times to get back to the main menu, then press LEFT again you go back to the video..showing the last frame. The HD200 does not actually stop and release the video. Pushing STOP releases the video and goes to the menu.

Maybe they should add a feature where you can manually reset the video player portion of the HD200, instead of having to cold boot it. It seems the HD200 is hanging up after you play a video, and some random alignment of the stars and planets. This week I cold booted the HD200 and let it sit for 2 days. When I went to use it, it worked fine. I made sure I pushed STOP after each video and it worked for an additional 2 days. But then a day later it's hosed again.

Needless to say, I set both the HD200 and my PC to a static IP address to try and eliminate the shutting off problem.

[freedml]

Having the same playback problem. Was really bad Sunday, couldn't get through a show. Yesterday much better, only one or two cold boots. Once the 'playback.exeception' message starts it's cold-boots-ville.

What are your video sources???

[paulbeers]

I
#1-java.io.IOException: An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine


Just out of curiosity what version of Java are you running?

Edit: Also, have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling java?

[spaceghost]

I don't have any video sources (or shouldn't have). Sage and the HD200 pick up on the HDPVR I have hooked up but I'm not using the HDPVR like that. Every time I boot up the HDPVR (or Sage on the server) it wants to configure the HDPVR. Someone (or myself not noticing) configured the HDPVR and when I was having problems playing files the HD200 the other day, it was trying to tune to the HDPVR instead of playing a video. I thought that was weird but tech support didn't. Not sure how playing a video file could get confused with tuning in with the HDPVR (component + spdif). Anyway, removed the HDPVR as a source and it stopped trying to tune to it and just went back to the blank screen.

I am running Java 1.6.0_13 from what I can tell. No, I haven't uninstalled and reinstalled Java. I'm not as worried about that exception because I know what caused it.

Thank you for the replies!

[spaceghost]

tech support just responded and said:

One of the developers would like to see when you have the problem again to see when playback starts in the same log. That log was taken too late so it was already overwritten.

So this is seeming like we're getting somewhere now! Man, I'm going to have to be quick. The messages log is very small and overwrites itself pretty fast.

[ajuhawk]

So this worked for me, maybe it will solve this issue for someone else.

When I originally set up my HD-200 I made (in hindsight) was to configure the standalone mode knowing I was going to use it with Sage almost exclusively. It turns out that the processor must keep working on the standalone libraries in the background, even when you connect to the sageTV server. My workaround had been to telnet into the HD-200 and run "sh runclient.sh xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" (where the x's are the IP of your sageTV server. This got me around the stability issue but only if I telnet-ed into the box each time I power cycled it (as it would still occasionally hang).

Well, I finally decided to do a manual reset of the HD-200 to see if that would do anything (hold down DEL on the remote while it powers on - after unplugging it). This allows you to run the basic setup again - DO NOT setup any libraries in standalone mode! Only configure your sound and video options. Then connect to SageTV and see if the problem is resolved. I'd same I'm 99% stable at this point.

Some people are probably able to get away with configuring the standalone libraries and still run Sage if they have smaller libraries - mine are rather large.