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  #101  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:35 AM
photon photon is offline
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For me I think Sage 7 killing SageMC functions is another nail in the coffin of Sage TV.

Phoenix interface while better looking by default isn't a satisfactory replacement for SageMC. At least not yet. I get lost and frustrated trying to find a function (I know some features are not there yet). Excessive use of the options button to be able to do an everyday thing. Navigation and ease of use is far superior in SageMC. Everyday functions are visible on screen to choose. Options button is for things you would not use much.I want something that works properly now.

I wish someone would pickup development of SageMC just long enough to fix it on Sage 7.

I'm probably going back to Sage 6 with SageMC. I'll make the final decision after I have set everything up in Sage 7 and spent more time with the default UI.
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  #102  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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mkanet mkanet is offline
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In your opinion, what significant features are missing in the default Sagetv STV 7 UI that's available in SAGEMC;considering we have an ADM plugin to customize navigation in menus? The only thing that was holding me back before upgrading from sagemc was Slimplayer which was added a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by photon View Post
For me I think Sage 7 killing SageMC functions is another nail in the coffin of Sage TV.

Phoenix interface while better looking by default isn't a satisfactory replacement for SageMC. At least not yet. I get lost and frustrated trying to find a function (I know some features are not there yet). Excessive use of the options button to be able to do an everyday thing. Navigation and ease of use is far superior in SageMC. Everyday functions are visible on screen to choose. Options button is for things you would not use much.I want something that works properly now.

I wish someone would pickup development of SageMC just long enough to fix it on Sage 7.

I'm probably going back to Sage 6 with SageMC. I'll make the final decision after I have set everything up in Sage 7 and spent more time with the default UI.
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Last edited by mkanet; 01-28-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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  #103  
Old 01-28-2012, 01:53 PM
photon photon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
In your opinion, what significant features are missing in the default Sagetv STV 7 UI that's available in SAGEMC;considering we have an ADM plugin to customize navigation in menus? The only thing that was holding me back before upgrading from sagemc was Slimplayer which was added a long time ago.
I can't speak to your features question. I use SageMC only because it's a much easier to use UI. Especially when dealing with Music. I'm not familiar with the ADM plugin. The entire menu system and how things display would have to be reconstructed can it do that?
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  #104  
Old 01-28-2012, 02:19 PM
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mkanet mkanet is offline
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What may I ask is more difficult to use? The only thing I didn't like about SageTV 7 default STV was that some basic features were buried deep into the menus; which the ADM plugin took care of that (allowing me to rearrange/rename a few menu items very easily). I didn't have to completely construct anything.

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Originally Posted by photon View Post
I can't speak to your features question. I use SageMC only because it's a much easier to use UI. Especially when dealing with Music. I'm not familiar with the ADM plugin. The entire menu system and how things display would have to be reconstructed can it do that?
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  #105  
Old 01-29-2012, 07:24 PM
wayner wayner is online now
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I stayed with SageMC under Sage 7 and I didn't have major problems. Buti switched to using Diamond as,once you GE used to it, it is far better although some things may take an extra click or two. With Diamond Yu can easily customize all of the menus and you can integrate Fanart much better using banners as the main method to select a TV series. I also use the wall view for my movies.

With Diamond the mindset is somewhat different as folders and filenames no longer matter, everything is based off of the metadata. That means that you have to have good metadata. But it gives you much more flexibility as you can treat all movies the same, no matter whether they are recorded from TV or from DVDs. You can also integrate Netflix and Hulu into Sage using Playon.
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  #106  
Old 01-29-2012, 08:17 PM
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mkanet mkanet is offline
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You know, I've used the diamond theme so long that I forgot I'm not actually using the default sageTV 7 theme. It definitely makes things nicer. I didn't realize until just recently how power BMT is to handle BOTH TV and Movies. Apparently, it's not easy to just tell a program to rename media files regardless if they are TV shows, Movies, or Music.

The Phoenix interface takes it a step further with, IMO, the most beautiful interface sageTV has ever had. Unfortunately, I gave up waiting for it to offer the same features/plugins the standard STV 7 offers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I stayed with SageMC under Sage 7 and I didn't have major problems. Buti switched to using Diamond as,once you GE used to it, it is far better although some things may take an extra click or two. With Diamond Yu can easily customize all of the menus and you can integrate Fanart much better using banners as the main method to select a TV series. I also use the wall view for my movies.

With Diamond the mindset is somewhat different as folders and filenames no longer matter, everything is based off of the metadata. That means that you have to have good metadata. But it gives you much more flexibility as you can treat all movies the same, no matter whether they are recorded from TV or from DVDs. You can also integrate Netflix and Hulu into Sage using Playon.
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  #107  
Old 01-30-2012, 07:42 AM
wayner wayner is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photon View Post
I wish someone would pickup development of SageMC just long enough to fix it on Sage 7.
I don't know that your view is that widely held and I doubt that there are all that many SageMC users left. The big complaint about Sage in the pre V7 was the UI and I think they did a good job fixing it. Sure some items do take a few more clicks, like watching Recorded TV, but it isn't that onerous a learning curve.

I waited until some of the other UIs were available before switching my family from SageMC as I didn't want to switch multiple times. Phoenix looks nice as well but at the time I switched it was lacking some functionality (like online content, Playon/netflix support, etc) and it was still in beta phase. But I think that Diamond is a good compromise and presents a very nice UI with very customizable menus, especially if you use ADM as well.
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  #108  
Old 02-01-2012, 10:57 AM
sflamm sflamm is offline
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SageMC is quite good and still works.

The only real issue I know of is that in the 'Pictures' area it has a bug and no longer displays the photos in folders...

MeInMaui has said that he did not intend to fix this because he was focused on Phoenix.

With this simple fix... it would be as good as ever. Wish we could get that fixed.
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  #109  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:52 PM
eric3a eric3a is offline
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Quote:
I don't know that your view is that widely held and I doubt that there are all that many SageMC users left. The big complaint about Sage in the pre V7 was the UI and I think they did a good job fixing it. Sure some items do take a few more clicks, like watching Recorded TV, but it isn't that onerous a learning curve.
I am a remaining SageMC user and believe I will remain for quite a while.

I reinstalled server from scratch not long ago so tried out V7 UI yet another time thinking "how bad can it be?".... 2 days later my answer remains exactly the same as it ever was. Horrible.
I just can't cope with it. Don't understand the logic. It asks me irrelevant questions when I expect simple things to happen. Can't find where my stuff is (I have way too much I know, but with a good interface I can find it). Under "Folders" in Videos I have to page down 24 times to see all my folders for example. And then there's the subfolders....

Maybe it's just me but I could swear that once I hit ESC ont he keyboard and it asked me if I wanted to power the extender off. WHAT???

So I reinstalled SageMC which is the reason I even use SageTV to begin with, as otherwise I'd stayed with BeyondTV and eventually have gotten the HDPVRs sorted out.

It's a logic thing. Either it makes sense to you or it doesn't. I can fully understand that if it does, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't get it (and my wife really really doesn't get it either), it's beyond frustrating.

To me that's the beauty of a computer based solution: it can be tweaked to work the way you like, the way you understand. For our place, it's SageMC.

Without starting a PC vs Mac war I hope, I found the same logic disconnect when I had to work on a Mac for months... Couldn't cope with the logic, which made me relate to this video.

Eric
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  #110  
Old 02-01-2012, 06:39 PM
wayner wayner is online now
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I felt exactly the way that you did but many of those annoying extract clicks you can get rid of by changing the config - such as having Sage automatically go into a list of shows when you click on the title.

But I don't use the default UI, I use Diamond. The issue with the new UIs is that you have to change your mindset as using Folders to organize your shows isn't really the way that it is done anymore. This puts more of a burden on having correct metadata. Diamond doesn't even have a View Videos by Folder view. I complained about this but the devs said that they have no plans to make one.

So I took their advice and created custom screens. I have four main menu items that we use - Recorded TV, Kids TV, Movies(non-kids) and Kids' Movies. The Movies use a "Wall" view and the TV shows.

The wall view looks like this:

and the TV shows uses a banner view that looks something like this:

I have also integrated movies and TV shows from my Netflix Instant Queue into these views.

It takes a while to adapt but I couldn't see switching back now that I have made the change.

If you are familiar with iTunes then think of how iTunes organizes your music. The folder structure is irrelevant as the views presented to you are based on the characterstics that you are interested in - such as artist, album or genre. Sage is now similar to that .
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  #111  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:22 PM
eric3a eric3a is offline
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Quote:
The issue with the new UIs is that you have to change your mindset as using Folders to organize your shows isn't really the way that it is done anymore.
My point exactly. I heavily dislike the logic that I have to adapt to the program rather than the program adapt to me. (Though I am ready to put some initial setup time vs working on it all the time).
Folders have been around for long enough that they should at least be a solid option for those who've got them properly set up.
I'm not going to redo my whole video collection just so it "works" with my PVR program. I expect my PVR program to work with my collection. So far I can't find my stuff with UI V7.

I'm now also running XBMC on a number of clients fed from a couple UPnP servers as a test and they do perfectly fine with folders so I don't have to reorganize anything.
My brand new 3D HDTV works fine with folders and I can find my stuff, and more importantly so can my wife. Yet my specialized PVR software's brand new interface is so confusing my wife can't use it after a whole 2 days? And I have to hunt around to find my stuff. Basically V7 wasn't progress for me, but glad that I have a choice of staying with SageMC.

I have stuff from literally all around the world and many languages, stuff that has no metadata and never will. My own night diving movies, old French movies that no metadata scraper will ever get right and about 14,000 songs that will never all have proper metadata. 1920s rare recordings. A lot of the legal stuff I download straight from the net (the President's enhanced SOTU address for example) doesn't have metadata either. Direct Rss feeds into folders, etc....

Getting SageMC to work was about 30 minutes one time setup. 20 minutes of that was finding our I needed to use double "//" for folders! Fair enough. Getting clean and proper metadata for all my stuff would be a forever job.

I understand the logic of good metadata but assuming that solid folder implementation isn't the way to go anymore because everything will have usable metadata doesn't make any sense to me. But as I said: It's mostly a mindset and the logic you use.
I'm glad it works for most people, though clearly there are still a few "SageMCers" out there.

Quote:
I felt exactly the way that you did but many of those annoying extract clicks you can get rid of by changing the config - such as having Sage automatically go into a list of shows when you click on the title.
Simple and easy should be the default setup in my opinion.
It usually is in most program were you have to click "advanced setup" before you see all the options.

Eric
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  #112  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:32 PM
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mkanet mkanet is offline
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Hey Wayner, my TV banner view in Diamond doesn't look like that. What did you do to get it to look like that? I can't select episodes of a TV shows while still looking at the banners of all shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I felt exactly the way that you did but many of those annoying extract clicks you can get rid of by changing the config - such as having Sage automatically go into a list of shows when you click on the title.

But I don't use the default UI, I use Diamond. The issue with the new UIs is that you have to change your mindset as using Folders to organize your shows isn't really the way that it is done anymore. This puts more of a burden on having correct metadata. Diamond doesn't even have a View Videos by Folder view. I complained about this but the devs said that they have no plans to make one.

So I took their advice and created custom screens. I have four main menu items that we use - Recorded TV, Kids TV, Movies(non-kids) and Kids' Movies. The Movies use a "Wall" view and the TV shows.

The wall view looks like this:

and the TV shows uses a banner view that looks something like this:

I have also integrated movies and TV shows from my Netflix Instant Queue into these views.

It takes a while to adapt but I couldn't see switching back now that I have made the change.

If you are familiar with iTunes then think of how iTunes organizes your music. The folder structure is irrelevant as the views presented to you are based on the characterstics that you are interested in - such as artist, album or genre. Sage is now similar to that .
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  #113  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:48 PM
eric3a eric3a is offline
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Quote:
my TV banner view in Diamond doesn't look like that.
Looks exactly like TvExplorer I run though SageMC...

Eric
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  #114  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:52 PM
rickw rickw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3a View Post
I am a remaining SageMC user and believe I will remain for quite a while.
My household is the same. We've tried the Default, Diamond and Phoenix. But the family always wants to go back to SageMC. It just makes sense to everyone. Even my Mother, who only visits a couple times a year, has no problem navigating and locating the content to watch.
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  #115  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:37 AM
razrsharpe razrsharpe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3a View Post
Looks exactly like TvExplorer I run though SageMC...

Eric
yup.. that screen shot is TVE for SageMC... there is a TVE for Sage7 that looks similar (not exactly the same but similar...) see my signature...
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  #116  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:46 PM
jmv jmv is offline
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Late to the party but finally joined SageMC on SageTV 7...it seems to work with all the above input...I do have a problem though...in the Guide, I can no longer click and have it pop to the program info screen that has the Watch / Record / Advanced Record / Record Series / Other Showings / Set Watched options...it only goes there when I press the enter key on the keyboard.

The second problem is that when I am sorting my DVD / Movie collection, the Alphabetical sorts (going all the way to the right where the A/B/C etc pops up down the left hand side) no longer work (under SageTV 6, if you clicked "T" the files would jump to the first video in the "T" letter. Under 7 it just ignores.

Thanks,

mv

Last edited by jmv; 02-27-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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  #117  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:00 PM
jmv jmv is offline
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ok, using MKAnet's updated sagemc xml fixed my A/B/C navigation issue in the videos directory, now only one bug left before I can deploy...need the "click" on guide item to open up the watch/record/etc view (ie the same thing that would happen if you hit the keyboard "enter" key...

Any help pretty pretty please?

mv
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  #118  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:01 PM
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mkanet mkanet is offline
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Just to be clear, what happens when you kit the keyboard "enter" key on a guide program? Does it tune to the channel and start playing or does it do nothing? If it tunes without bringing a dialog box, make sure you don't have a plugin that causes that to happen. I remember that being optional; I just can't remember how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmv View Post
ok, using MKAnet's updated sagemc xml fixed my A/B/C navigation issue in the videos directory, now only one bug left before I can deploy...need the "click" on guide item to open up the watch/record/etc view (ie the same thing that would happen if you hit the keyboard "enter" key...

Any help pretty pretty please?

mv
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  #119  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:22 PM
jmv jmv is offline
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Wow signs off life!!!!

attached are pictures of what it does when I left click on sageMC under SageTV 6. Under SageTV 7, nothing happens, but if I hit enter in either scenario, it goes to "sagemc post click.jpg" screen.

I only have SageMC installed. Under SageTV 7 use the SageTV 7 STV, it also goes to its version of the "post click" screen, so it only fails using SageTV 7 and SageMC.

mv
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sagemc guide.jpg (51.7 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg sagemc post click.jpg (41.6 KB, 43 views)
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  #120  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:38 PM
sflamm sflamm is offline
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Agreed - SageMC is still the most usable by family members. I too have polled the family and they still prefer SageMC (though I try to push 'Phoenix' on my customer base)

The outstanding issue I have with SageMC is that with the latest SageTV build inside the 'Pictures' section the 'filesystem' view no longer show my pictures in folders... it flattens all the Pictures into one giant list.
If this worked it would be great - but MeInMaui indicated he did not intend to fix this but to instead focus his energies on Phoenix. Anyone want to fix this issue please?
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