New FCC Order on CableCards re SageTV

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost

or even more important Beer!!1 I want my Beer DRM now!!! we must save the Bar industry!!!!

They tried that in 1920 with prohibition
Result = FAIL

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Maybe I'm late to the party on this one, but did anyone else see that SiliconDust seemed to confirm that the HDHR Prime would work in SageTV for copy-freely content. One of their employees said on their forums:



There's still a bit of ambiguity there, but to me that sounds like confirmation that the HDHR Prime should work with SageTV. It almost implies that anything that currently supports the HDHR should work with copy-freely content on the HDHR, but that seems a little implausible. They very well might just be saying that any software can play back the files, but that doesn't necessarily mean that any software can control the HDHR Prime.

I know that doesn't help people with channels marked copy-once. But, as far as I know, Comcast is still copy-freely on everything except premiums. Assuming its supported in Sage, I'd jump on the HDHR Prime at $250, and I'd at least think about it if it doesn't get much above $300. I don't see Comcast suddenly deciding to flip the copy-protection switch very soon. I think if they were going to they would have when they switched to all-digital cable. Maybe they'll soon start turning on copy-protection soon in places that haven't gone fully digital yet, but I suspect I'm safe for a year or two.

That's great to hear and sounds promising!

[x[corwyn]]

Well I have been using Sage TV for several years now.

I have been recording QAM, and HDPVR doesnt really seem the best solution. To me its very kludgy. QAM channels are a pain in the ass to setup, and they arent consistent. Thats not the fault of Sage though.

However, we have CC now that is a very real, and usable solution. The Ceton InfiniTV 4 seems like an incredible solution.... 4 simultaneous recordings on one card? All my channels that I have available? HD Recoding for me (finally!)?

I see Sage 7. However Im only using Sage for SD recordings and with Sage 7 thats going to stay the same. Not worth the upgrade. QAM was too much of a pain, and it doesnt record the encrypted channels. Its 2010. I have been watching HD now for 5+ years. I think its time... I might need to split off my recording to Win 7 Media Center that has CC support, and start working away from Sage, unfortunately. I really want to stay with Sage, but I also want to record and watch in HD.

I have been watching and reading these forums for the better part of the year to see where they weigh in, and its just silence. Thats not good.

[reggie14]

I got a message from SiliconDust which indicated the HDHR Prime should be released soon. And a previous message on their boards suggested that third party software that works with the HDHR should work with non-copy protected content off the HDHR Prime with little or no modifications.

Basically, that's good news for Comcast customers, and some other cable users less consistently. Some cable companies copy protect everything, but Comcast doesn't.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by x[corwyn]

I have been watching and reading these forums for the better part of the year to see where they weigh in, and its just silence. Thats not good.

And somehow you missed the many many many people who have hapily been using the HD-PVR for years now? And the greater numbers of posts since v7 that have stated how much BETTER it is with the HDPVR? Just seems odd to put enough weight in HD to want cablecard so bad - but ignore the solution that's been working for a couple years now...

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

And somehow you missed the many many many people who have hapily been using the HD-PVR for years now? And the greater numbers of posts since v7 that have stated how much BETTER it is with the HDPVR? Just seems odd to put enough weight in HD to want cablecard so bad - but ignore the solution that's been working for a couple years now...

It's not that the HDPVR doesn't work but it's definitely not ideal. If I had the option of using something like CC to record the actual stream I would jump on that in a second.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

And somehow you missed the many many many people who have hapily been using the HD-PVR for years now? And the greater numbers of posts since v7 that have stated how much BETTER it is with the HDPVR? Just seems odd to put enough weight in HD to want cablecard so bad - but ignore the solution that's been working for a couple years now...

Surely you can see a benefit in having one small box containing three tuners, versus three separate cable boxes, three separate HDPVR boxes, and a USB-UIRT little box connecting them all together? Not to mention the cabling required to hook all of those boxes together...

[src666]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

And somehow you missed the many many many people who have hapily been using the HD-PVR for years now? And the greater numbers of posts since v7 that have stated how much BETTER it is with the HDPVR? Just seems odd to put enough weight in HD to want cablecard so bad - but ignore the solution that's been working for a couple years now...

Funny how every time someone mentions the HD-PVR not working well for them, someone else has to step up and tell us how wonderful it is for them, and "look at all the other people who love it". Well, I read the same forums, and I see plenty of people who it doesn't work well for. People who have to reboot frequently due to it. People who miss recordings, etc.

The HD-PVR is a good product when it works. It doesn't always work. Some people have gotten lucky, others haven't. But please stop jumping on everyone who tells you about his problems by saying "it works for me". He's not you, obviously.

[tomatodave]

I have to agree that the HDPVR is not really an ideal solution and I for one would love to have an alternative. I have 2 hdpvr's and they do work most of the time, but I also have an HDHR and it works ALL OF THE TIME while doing a wonderful job with HD. That is what I would like expect from my hdpvr. And yes I put enough weight on hd to look for and want a better solution. Everything is hd these days so why would I want to settle for sd. I know that I may have to settle for sd in exchange for reliability. My 2 hdpvr's went at least 2 months without a recording failure and then out of the blue they went for a week with not even 1 successful recording. I was busy and was unable to troubleshoot but for the past 2 days they are again working flawlessly and I did nothing. If there were a reliable hd solution I would dump my hdpvr's in a heartbeat.

[Fuzzy]

My response was to x[corwyn], saying that he has stuck with SD while waiting for cablecard. He didn't say the HD-PVR doesn't work for him, he's never even tried it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the HD-PVR as an ideal solution - which is why I don't use one - but I'm not going to forgo HD until CableCard comes to sage, like x[corwyn] has decided to do.

[src666]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My response was to x[corwyn], saying that he has stuck with SD while waiting for cablecard. He didn't say the HD-PVR doesn't work for him, he's never even tried it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the HD-PVR as an ideal solution - which is why I don't use one - but I'm not going to forgo HD until CableCard comes to sage, like x[corwyn] has decided to do.

Whups, you are correct. On a more careful reading, he doesn't state he has tried an HD-PVR. I thought he had based on the way he phrased his complaints: "To me its very kludgy. QAM channels are a pain in the ass to setup, and they arent consistent"

I read that as coming from someone with direct experience. My bad.

[korben_dallas]

OTA HD - fail, all times with multiple antennae in multiple houses

QAM HD - fail, all times in multiple houses

HD PVR - works 98% of the time, within multiple house moves

Just sayin..

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

OTA HD - fail, all times with multiple antennae in multiple houses

QAM HD - fail, all times in multiple houses

HD PVR - works 98% of the time, within multiple house moves

Just sayin..

Just depends on location here. I have never had ANY problem with OTA HD, and I'm 40 miles, with no line-of-sight, from the towers. Medium sized directional antenna on my chimney, wired to an HDHomeRun. Never even a glitch.

I was never happy with QAM, from a quality standpiont, AND a configuration standpoint. Though I've also never owned an HD-PVR. For me, the R-5000HD with Dish Network is VERY good - once I got the bugs out (though I still get issues with some signal glitches - which are not handled very gracefully). But the R-5000HD is probably the most expensive route - If i was strting now, I'd go with HDHR for OTA, plus two HD-PVR's.

[impro]

Cable card from silicondust will be IDEAL for me.
1--- One tuner for 3 cable cards.That can clear my server closet a lot.
2---Here in Las Vegas I pay $10 for each of my 3 Digital Receivers.
The cable card however cost 2.50 a month.
$22.50 savings a month.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE CABLE CARD SUPPORT.

[impro]

What about today's announcement that silicondust will work with Hauppauge to make cable card tuners?
http://www.silicondust.com/company/news/

I think microsoft should buy sageTV and implement it in media center.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by impro

What about today's announcement that silicondust will work with Hauppauge to make cable card tuners?
http://www.silicondust.com/company/news/

I think microsoft should buy sageTV and implement it in media center.

That was actually from a couple months ago - and it is seemingly more for combining market presence than anything else... SiliconDust is still making the Network adapter - and Happauge will make the USB model. I'm also thinking the combination may be to help 'split the cost' of the CableLabs efforts - both time, development, and certification costs, PLUS the leverage it's going to take to push out of the MS only paradigm.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by impro

I think microsoft should buy sageTV and implement it in media center.

I think that would be the worst possible thing that could happen to Sage. If you want to be under the auspices of Microsoft's DRM and benevolent use case ideas (ie practically no extenders and pathetic format support), I suggest you switch to Windows Media Center.

As an aside, given the strong desire for HD, and the amount of complaining, I find it "entertaining" how many people spend as much time complaining about lack of options as it would take them to get a working HD PVR solution.

While many here have been complaining and waiting years for a cablecard solution, I've been recording HD off my STB for years.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

As an aside, given the strong desire for HD, and the amount of complaining, I find it "entertaining" how many people spend as much time complaining about lack of options as it would take them to get a working HD PVR solution.

While the HD-PVR is a good solution, it's by no means a great solution. First, there's no guarantee you'll be able to get it to work. I've had to give up on 5.1 audio since I could never get it to stop crashing every other week or so. I still have problems on certain channels causing lock-ups, but luckily i don't use those channels very often.

Second, its more expensive. If you want to record three things at once, you're looking at 3x$200 plus 3x$8/month for boxes. The HDHR prime is just $250 plus a couple bucks a month for a cable card. With the HD-PVR you need to worry about channel changing. If you're a cable user you might be able to. Gt a FireWire cable box, but then you need to try to get an older model with drivers available and you're stuck with 32-bit windows. Otherwise you need to get a USB-UIRT, a splitter, and some extra emitters and figure out how to set up multi-zone on it. And even the you just have an ir blaster, albeit a good one, but still the slowish channel changes that accompany those.

And then theres the video quality. While I'm happy with the hdpvr, I can still tell the difference between a firewire recording and an hdpvr recording. That might be because I have my stb locked to 720p instead of 1080i, but I did that because some features in sage didn't work with 1080i h.264 video.

Finally, there's some pain to working with h.264 video instead of mpeg2. My server can happily placeshift and comskip mpeg2 hd video, but can't handle h.264 video. I really don't want to setup a new server, more out of time concerns than cost, so it would be easier for me to switch to a cable card tuner than upgrade my server and buy another hd-PVR.

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by reggie14

While the HD-PVR is a good solution, it's by no means a great solution. First, there's no guarantee you'll be able to get it to work. I've had to give up on 5.1 audio since I could never get it to stop crashing every other week or so. I still have problems on certain channels causing lock-ups, but luckily i don't use those channels very often.

Second, its more expensive. If you want to record three things at once, you're looking at 3x$200 plus 3x$8/month for boxes. The HDHR prime is just $250 plus a couple bucks a month for a cable card. With the HD-PVR you need to worry about channel changing. If you're a cable user you might be able to. Gt a FireWire cable box, but then you need to try to get an older model with drivers available and you're stuck with 32-bit windows. Otherwise you need to get a USB-UIRT, a splitter, and some extra emitters and figure out how to set up multi-zone on it. And even the you just have an ir blaster, albeit a good one, but still the slowish channel changes that accompany those.

And then theres the video quality. While I'm happy with the hdpvr, I can still tell the difference between a firewire recording and an hdpvr recording. That might be because I have my stb locked to 720p instead of 1080i, but I did that because some features in sage didn't work with 1080i h.264 video.

Finally, there's some pain to working with h.264 video instead of mpeg2. My server can happily placeshift and comskip mpeg2 hd video, but can't handle h.264 video. I really don't want to setup a new server, more out of time concerns than cost, so it would be easier for me to switch to a cable card tuner than upgrade my server and buy another hd-PVR.

Agreed 100%. You have summed up nicely why I will not get the clunky and stop-gap hd-hvr and why I am waiting for a cablecard solution.

[src666]

I think that everyone needs to remember that the right solution for you isn't the right solution for everyone else. Some love the HD-PVR, some hate it, some just can't get it to work. Some can get by with 1 or 2 tuners, some need more.

As a Comcast user, I will eventually lose QAM. I will not be replacing it with 4 HD-PVRs and 4 cable boxes along with the reset/channel change/USB issues. If I can't get CableCard support in Sage, I will get it elsewhere.

Remember one thing - the core reason we do this is so that we can record the TV we want. I really, really like Sage, but I'm not going to let its limitations and the limitations of the hardware it supports control my capabilities. If Sage won't do it, then WMC will. Not the same, with different features/benefits/limitations. But the core issue - recording TV reliably, is the one that drives this choice.

Sorry if this pisses some of you off and you have to tell me all about how wrong my choice is. But just like you did, I have to choose the right solution for me.

Meanwhile, I really hope that Sage has an ace up their sleeve, bites the bullet and gets CableLabs certified before Comcast forces the change.