SageTV Media Extender Brightness Control

[joe123]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Knowing about an issue and having a software solution don't always coincide.

- Andy

Ok, fair enough. As for those thinking that this problem is only a few days old in discovery, looking at this other site: http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=5199.0

The problem with MVP's showing Dark was talked about back in June of 2004! I know that this is not a SageTV forum, but the problem itself with MVP's showing Dark is not a recent discovery!

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by joe123

Ok, fair enough. As for those thinking that this problem is only a few days old in discovery, looking at this other site: http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=5199.0

The problem with MVP's showing Dark was talked about back in June of 2004! I know that this is not a SageTV forum, but the problem itself with MVP's showing Dark is not a recent discovery!

You are correct-it is not a recent discovery. But referencing the thread you did seems to point to it as a hardware issue with the MVPs and mostly with Rev. D3 and D3A. And these would be MVPs running the original Hauppague software-not 3rd party apps like Sage TV.

Quote from thread:

Just spoken to Hauppauge UK:

Not of much help except to say that it is a known problem that is being worked on by Hauppauge USA, and that they do not have timescales for a fix. They said to contact their sales line if I wanted to send it back for a refund

So any solution would have to be a workaround to a known hardware issue with the MVP. It also appears that the Rev. E1 are fine.

Gerry

[joe123]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It also appears that the Rev. E1 are fine.

Gerry

Ah, I don't think so

I just bought one from SageTV, revision E1 and the TV screen shows VERY DARK. It was dark enough that it prompted me to start this thread which has lead me to see just how many other folks are having similar problems.

I will double check tonight, but I recall that it was revision E1. Again, I will verify tomorrow.

[MrApollinax]

FWIW the video brightness/saturation output is the same using the Hauppauge software vs SageTV. To me this points to a problem with the MVP hardware not the software. My guess is that the "solutions" to this problems found in other software loads are transcoding the files or adjusting the original files to compensate.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by MrApollinax

FWIW the video brightness/saturation output is the same using the Hauppauge software vs SageTV. To me this points to a problem with the MVP hardware not the software. My guess is that the "solutions" to this problems found in other software loads are transcoding the files or adjusting the original files to compensate.

Yeap. The more and more I read about this, it sure looks like a hardware problem on Hauppauge MediaMVP units.

I am still amazed why this has not been a bigger issue with folks here. To me, the output is so dark coming out of the MVP's that it is pathetic watching TV's on one of these things.

If I was SageTV, I would either put a disclaimer about this known problem, or would not re-sell these unts at all. Re-selling these units as SageTV is doing, puts the final fault/burden on SageTV (especially with no disclaimers about this terrible problem).

[MrApollinax]

I would agree this would be a big issue for me as well except I'm not seeing the issue. Maybe the reason I'm not seeing it is because I'm going into my DVD player which is hooked into my TV via component video. It might be compensating for poor video output.

[blade]

BTW I think GBPVR adjusts the capture settings to compensate for the dark picture. If so I don't really see how they've produced a better solution than Sage.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by blade

BTW I think GBPVR adjusts the capture settings to compensate for the dark picture. If so I don't really see how they've produced a better solution than Sage.

Well, at least GBPVR already FOUND the problem and provide a work around solution which a user can adjust.

SageTV company has not even acknowledged that there is a problem (other than forum supports saying yeah, we think we have see something).

I bought my MVP from SageTV and I did not see any disclosure that these units had a brightness issue problem. Other users have electronically proven that the MVP's are dropping some 30% of the brightness signal which is what users here are reporting.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It also appears that the Rev. E1 are fine.

Gerry

I just checked my unit. Mine says Rev. E1M

I got my unit from SageTV last week - this unit has the DARKNESS problem ( brightness is way down).

It's terrible.

[Stuntman]

Originally Posted by joe123

I just checked my unit. Mine says Rev. E1M

I got my unit from SageTV last week - this unit has the DARKNESS problem ( brightness is way down).

It's terrible.

I had never noticed until I read this thread.. but yeah, mine is dark too.. but it only seems to be a very bad problem in scenes that are already dark to begin with.. I'm sure it's a factor everywhere, but dark scenes are almost unwatchable..

Hope they find a fix (We all know they will!!)

[blade]

Originally Posted by joe123

Well, at least GBPVR already FOUND the problem and provide a work around solution which a user can adjust.

SageTV company has not even acknowledged that there is a problem (other than forum supports saying yeah, we think we have see something).

I bought my MVP from SageTV and I did not see any disclosure that these units had a brightness issue problem. Other users have electronically proven that the MVP's are dropping some 30% of the brightness signal which is what users here are reporting.

Sage already allows you to adjust the capture settings using the UI. They may not have something that specifically says MVP Brightness adjustment, but it's possible to do the same adjustment that GBPVR is doing. So I don't understand how they're providing a workaround that isn't available with Sage.

If Hauppauge is knowingly selling MVPs that have that much drop in brightness either they don't consider them defective or they don't care. That's Hauppauge's fault IMO not Sage's. I'd suggest complaining to Hauppauge. How can Sage or any company for that matter consider a product "defective" if the manufacturer themselves doesn't consider it defective?

[MrApollinax]

Originally Posted by gbpvr

If the signal coming out of your mvp is too dark (or light), you can adjust it. Here’s how: In the gbpvr root directory (default C:\Program Files\devnz\gbpvr\) there is a file called direct.ini. Right click this file, select “open with” and point that to NOTEPAD. Change the Brightness from auto to 75 (or some other number) and click save. Then restart the gbpvr recording services. Experiment with the setting (up or down from 75) until it is set to how how you want it.

Emphasis on the above is mine. Looking at that the "solution" that you say GBPVR has found is to adjust the recording settings to have a higher brightness/saturation level. You can do this in sage by adjusting your your source details under "Color Calibration." So blade is correct the gbpvr "fix" is available in SageTV as well.

After reading more about this issue on the net it looks like my setup is the only work around that doesn't effect the recorded files. Basically go through another A/V device to resample the MVP video output before sending it to the TV. In my setup I have:

MVP ---S-Vid---- DVR/VCR ---Component Video--- TV (HD support)

With the above setup i have no problems with brightness or saturation levels

[mangriotis]

I noticed a slightly darker picture as well upon firing up my MVP. My solution was recalibrating the input I am using on my TV. I have it on a 27" Panasonic tube, but it remembers picture settings for each input. I increased the brightness and adjusted sharpness and contrast. The PQ is great in my opinion.

I realize this isn't a solution for everyone, but if specific inputs can be recalibrated, or your display is dedicated to the MVP, there really shouldn't be a major issue here.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by blade

If Hauppauge is knowingly selling MVPs that have that much drop in brightness either they don't consider them defective or they don't care. That's Hauppauge's fault IMO not Sage's. I'd suggest complaining to Hauppauge. How can Sage or any company for that matter consider a product "defective" if the manufacturer themselves doesn't consider it defective?

They "Hauppauge" may not consider it "defective" because they may have on purpose made it that way because of the bottom $line$. For example, the "fix" may have involved a more expensive solution (chip) but that solution would cost them $30 bucks more to incorporate and that may have persuaded Hauppauge to go with the cheaper solution in order to sell these units for $99.00 bucks in order to compete. I only say this because if the solution was easy or cheap, they would have done something by now. Again, this is a known reported problem since June of 2004 from owners with hard solid evidence to prove it.

Why am I harping on SageTV and not Hauppauge? Same reason that when I buy a Car and it is defective, I go back to the dealership and not the factory. I bought my unit from SageTV and not from Hauppauge. SageTV web site does not say anything about a potential problem with these units - nada. Look at how many poeple here are coming forward admitting that there is a problem with THEIR units. I don't know why, but people in general are afraid to speak up and simply tell the truth.

Does this make sense?

Oh yes and to address your final point: They may not consider it deffective because they made consider these boxes CHEAP and with CHEAP solutions you get CHEAP images - you get what you pay for.

[MrApollinax]

I'm confused to what it is you are looking for from Sage? Blade and I both pointed out that the GBPVR "fix" you posted is something that SageTV has supported for a while. SageTV can compensate for this issue in it's current state. No upgrade needed, no need to manually edit configuration files. It is built into the source configuration screen. Also I'd like to point out that I'm not seeing this issue, I have a rev D3A and my picture brightness is fine.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by joe123

Why am I harping on SageTV and not Hauppauge? Same reason that when I buy a Car and it is defective, I go back to the dealership and not the factory. I bought my unit from SageTV and not from Hauppauge. SageTV web site does not say anything about a potential problem with these units - nada. Look at how many poeple here are coming forward admitting that there is a problem with THEIR units. I don't know why, but people in general are afraid to speak up and simply tell the truth.

Does this make sense?

No.
If I found out the manufacturer is building cars with a defective part I'm not going to continue talking to the dealer. I'm going to make my issues known to the manufacturer. The dealer doesn't build the car, he resells it. I would pursue the root problem.

I'm sure Sage is looking at it to see what else they can do but as mentioned above you do already have a workaround.

I would think you would need to look at the total units sold before you can say "look how many people are coming forward...." There were a lot of people using the MVP before Sage had their client and this issue wasn't reported here. And the earliest reports in another forum doesn't even concern Sage software. It's Hauppague's own. So we know the problem is NOT software related.

I think you need to chill on what Sage needs to do. If you want to pursue something, pursue it with the manufacturer. That's where the real fix would come in.

Gerry

[joe123]

Originally Posted by MrApollinax

I'm confused to what it is you are looking for from Sage? Blade and I both pointed out that the GBPVR "fix" you posted is something that SageTV has supported for a while. SageTV can compensate for this issue in it's current state. No upgrade needed, no need to manually edit configuration files. It is built into the source configuration screen. Also I'd like to point out that I'm not seeing this issue, I have a rev D3A and my picture brightness is fine.

After reviewing the GBPVR solution in more detail and as others have kindly explained, it is not really a solution, but a patch.

So please scratch out my previous comments about GBPVR providing a solution - it is not a solution, but a patch.

Now, to make sure I follow the SageTV "solution" correnly to increase the Brightness on my SageTV media extender. If I increase the turner (I have WinTV 150) brightness, wont that cause new recordings to ALSO show up "brighter"? Wont it also affect other TV's clients not using SageTV media Extenders - Like when I hook up my TV to my SageTV server directly?

[joe123]

Originally Posted by gplasky

No.
If I found out the manufacturer is building cars with a defective part I'm not going to continue talking to the dealer...

So we know the problem is NOT software related.

Gerry

I think you live on another planet. When a problem is found with a car, you take it back to the DEALERSHIP to get it fixed, not to the factory. The dealership may in turn return the car to the factory or fix it via factory parts. The factory/manufacture will not deal with end consumers for many obvious reasons. Period.

I bought my unit from SageTV. Period.

As for the "we all known the problem is NOT software realted" - YES. The more feedback and research everyone here has done and contribute, the more evidence there is to support that the problem resides with the MVPs - the problem is hardware and not the software related.

Again, since I bought my MVP (SageTV Media Extender) from SageTV, and since there is no mentioned from SageTV that there *MAY* be some problems with Darkness with these boxes, I am going after SageTV to correct this.

[joe123]

Here is some additonal information I found about MVP's which may help others:

"The european model of the mvp has a scart connector which can output composite/svideo and RGB. RGB looks about the same as my DVD player would output it while composite and svideo are darker and very saturated. Skin tones look very bad in composite and svideo modes."

Linky: http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?...47845#msg47845

[MrApollinax]

Originally Posted by joe123

Now, to make sure I follow the SageTV "solution" correnly to increase the Brightness on my SageTV media extender. If I increase the turner (I have WinTV 150) brightness, wont that cause new recordings to ALSO show up "brighter"? Wont it also affect other TV's clients not using SageTV media Extenders - Like when I hook up my TV to my SageTV server directly?

I never said that this is the solution. I said that the fix you posted from GBPVR that you were using as an example of how a company should fix other manufacturer's issues is not a fix but a configuration change in the capture process. A configuration option that has been available since 2.X release of SageTV. This is what I call a work around.

It sounds like you have a couple MVPs and do not want to hook your TV up to your computer directly so the above point really should be moot but I'll bite. Yes it will effect the brightness level of the recordings. Will it effect the brightness level of playback if you connect the server directly to a TV? Yes. However there probably is a way to adjust the output levels (as well as playback) for your PC through software whereas the MVP hardware solution gives you none.

I'm not seeing this particular issue and the MVP solution has met all my expectations thus far with the 4.1.5 relase of SageTV. I can only give you suggestions to try but ultimately all i can say is "it works for me."