R5000-HD capture via USB2 & SageTV

[Keenan]

Okay, great, that was easy. Here I was thinking, "what's he mean, do I know how to do that, what's happens if I can't figure it out".

[gte619n]

So I've read this thread and think the R5000 with Dish Network is the way to go. I had a couple of questions:

1. Say I've got one bigass computer that is the "server" with three of these R5000 boxes hooked up to it. Will the computer be able to keep up with all three of these things recording at the same time? Would it be better to break these up to three seperate "slave" servers with one master server?

2. I understand that I will be able to watch live TV on up to three seperate HTPCs in another room through SageTV, although the channel changing will be slow, right?

3. The R5000 modification allows me to capture ALL channels on Dish Network, regardless of encryption or codec, right? Will this likely continue in the future, or will Dish Network be able to flip some switch that kills my whole system?

Thanks for helping a newbie out,

Evan

[stanger89]

I don't have an R5000 (yet), but I think I can answer some of these...

Originally Posted by gte619n

So I've read this thread and think the R5000 with Dish Network is the way to go. I had a couple of questions:

1. Say I've got one bigass computer that is the "server" with three of these R5000 boxes hooked up to it. Will the computer be able to keep up with all three of these things recording at the same time? Would it be better to break these up to three seperate "slave" servers with one master server?

It shouldn't really be a big deal, it's just pulling the bitstream off, so it's not really any more difficult/intensive than capturing ATSC. One PC should be fine.

2. I understand that I will be able to watch live TV on up to three seperate HTPCs in another room through SageTV, although the channel changing will be slow, right?

Slower than a TV tuner connected to cable yes.

3. The R5000 modification allows me to capture ALL channels on Dish Network, regardless of encryption or codec, right?

It works regardless of codec. It does NOT bypass the access protections, it will record any channel you subscribe to. It will not give you access to anything you don't subscribe to.

Will this likely continue in the future, or will Dish Network be able to flip some switch that kills my whole system?

So long as the ViP 211 is in service it will work. Again, to be 100% perfectly clear. The R5000 is not a Dish Network hack, it is a modification to the sat box that allows output of the bitstream after decrypting (by the box) and before decoding/output. You still need a box, you still need a subscription.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by gte619n

So I've read this thread and think the R5000 with Dish Network is the way to go. I had a couple of questions:

1. Say I've got one bigass computer that is the "server" with three of these R5000 boxes hooked up to it. Will the computer be able to keep up with all three of these things recording at the same time? Would it be better to break these up to three seperate "slave" servers with one master server?

no issue at all here.

2. I understand that I will be able to watch live TV on up to three seperate HTPCs in another room through SageTV, although the channel changing will be slow, right?

about 9-10 seconds per change.

3. The R5000 modification allows me to capture ALL channels on Dish Network, regardless of encryption or codec, right? Will this likely continue in the future, or will Dish Network be able to flip some switch that kills my whole system?

all channels you subscribe to. No switch flipping involved. The R5000 is NOT, I repeat, NOT a means to STEAL service.

[gte619n]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your prompt responses. I wasn't trying to imply I was attempting to steal service, but I had read a bunch of articles related to all this DRM in the Vista media edition. That was the main thing I was worried about. I'm really only concerned with getting the content that I pay to see on a HD so I can watch it whenever I feel like it!

Also, is there any solution involving the ATI OCUR card? As of this point, I understand the card has a big fat 'vaporware' sticker, so boo, but does anyone think that it would be a solution in the future? Is it restricted at the hardware level? Could a linux implementation circumvent these issues?

Thanks again!

Evan

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gte619n

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your prompt responses. I wasn't trying to imply I was attempting to steal service, but I had read a bunch of articles related to all this DRM in the Vista media edition. That was the main thing I was worried about.

Nope, none of that

Also, is there any solution involving the ATI OCUR card? As of this point, I understand the card has a big fat 'vaporware' sticker, so boo, but does anyone think that it would be a solution in the future?

It requires Vista, and it requires a PC (that's whole, pre-built PC) that's certified by CableLabs. Don't expect to "roll your own".

Is it restricted at the hardware level? Could a linux implementation circumvent these issues?

A Linux implimenation, assuming you mean DIY and not something like a Tivo (which runs a Linux kernel), will never be CableLabs certified.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Keenan

The problem I'm having is specific to only 4 channels, the last 4 HD channels SC has added. At this point I can't say if R5000 is the problem, or even part of the problem. Sage and R5000 have worked perfect up until this point.

I can say now that this problem is with the R5000. It's not getting any signal as can be seen from the section of record-log. The first entries are from trying to record one of the new channel, the last is from a "good" channel. So, I'm waiting for response from, probably be next week as I believe he is on vacation this week.

E:\CrossingJordan-ItHappenedOneNight-72658-0.mpg  size: 0MB, length: 0, 
E:\December.28.2006_15.29.32PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:30:02
E:\December.28.2006_15.30.04PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:30:34
E:\December.28.2006_15.30.36PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:31:06
E:\December.28.2006_15.31.08PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:31:38
E:\December.28.2006_15.31.40PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:32:10
E:\December.28.2006_15.32.18PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:32:47
E:\December.28.2006_15.32.49PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 31s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:33:20
E:\December.28.2006_15.33.23PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:33:53
E:\December.28.2006_15.33.55PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:34:25
E:\December.28.2006_15.34.27PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:34:57
E:\December.28.2006_15.35.35PM.ts  size: 0MB, length: 29s, failures: 0 
Finished: 12/28/06 15:36:05
E:\December.28.2006_15.36.07PM.ts  size: 260MB, length: 2m1s, failures: 
0 Finished: 12/28/06 15:38:09

[thetedinator]

I am having a number of issues with SageTV and R5000-HD. I recently upgraded to SageTV version 6.0 hoping that would help but it does not. These problems are sporadic (meaning they don't happen everytime).

Selecting a new channel from within 'Program Guide' selecting 'Watch Now' generates an error message; "Error (-20): There is no MediaPlayer that can play back the selected file while it being recorded". If you acknowledge the error and then select 'record', the program is recorded and you see it in the preview window. You can then select to "Watch Live TV" and watch the program.
Selecting a new channel from within 'Program Guide' and selecting 'Watch Now' crashes R5000-HD
Selecting a new channel from within 'Program Guide' and selecting 'Watch Now' does not change the channel on the STB via the R5000-HD although SageTV thinks it succeeded.
Scheduled recordings do not switch the channel on the STB so the R5000-HD records the wrong channel.

When things are working, they work well. Any thoughts on what to check?

Thanks,

Ted

[Kirby]

My first suggestion would be to identify which channel was tuned, and which channel it was trying to tune. One major issue that will be hard to fix, is if you are watching a channel that goes into a blackout (sports event), the r5000 application cant recover from that. Same goes for if it tunes to an OTA channel without signal, or a satellite channel that gets a switch error, or loss of signal error.

One of my R5000's will once in a while miss a digit when tuning a 4 digit channel number, and it tunes to the 3 digits, which its not authorized for. at that point, unless I catch it, its stuck until I manually take the Dish remote and get to a watchable channel.

[thetedinator]

Originally Posted by Kirby

My first suggestion would be to identify which channel was tuned, and which channel it was trying to tune. One major issue that will be hard to fix, is if you are watching a channel that goes into a blackout (sports event), the r5000 application cant recover from that. Same goes for if it tunes to an OTA channel without signal, or a satellite channel that gets a switch error, or loss of signal error.

One of my R5000's will once in a while miss a digit when tuning a 4 digit channel number, and it tunes to the 3 digits, which its not authorized for. at that point, unless I catch it, its stuck until I manually take the Dish remote and get to a watchable channel.

The problem seems to be a communication/timing issue. If I select another show to watch and select 'Watch Now', if the R5000 SW has stopped the current recording, switched the channel and started the new recording (I can see this when the new program shows in the background/preview), then the SageTV sw will let me select 'Watch Now' a 2nd time and everything is fine. If the R5000 has not managed to stop the current recording, switch the channel, etc., then I get the "Error (-20)" message. When this has occurred, I can see that the R5000 has stopped the recording, but has not switched the channel and started recording. If I close the error box, highlight the show again, select 'Watch Now' (and I sometimes have to do this a couple of times), then the R5000 will switch to the new channel and start recording.

I have tried setting the seeker/fast_mux_switch and videoframe/fast_file_switching to false as suggested here (http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/sagetv.htm) but that didn't fix the problem.

Ted

[Kirby]

I dont have both of those settings set to false. In fact, my seeker line is true, and I dont even have the other line, due to the many upgrades. Try all combinations of the true/false on those. Also, make sure you are not trying to do a channel change within the 10 seconds from the last change, because thats about how long a channel change takes. Maybe try another port for the R5000 encoder too?

[thetedinator]

Originally Posted by Kirby

I dont have both of those settings set to false. In fact, my seeker line is true, and I dont even have the other line, due to the many upgrades. Try all combinations of the true/false on those. Also, make sure you are not trying to do a channel change within the 10 seconds from the last change, because thats about how long a channel change takes. Maybe try another port for the R5000 encoder too?

Do you have something called videoframe\safe_fast_file_switching?
What happens if you change a channel faster than 10 seconds?

I have tried various combos of the seeker and videoframe values without success. I have emailed Sage Support for help with this error.

Thanks,

Ted

[Kirby]

It takes 10 seconds to tune a channel with the R5000. If you try faster than that, you run the risk of the r5000 DVR "encoder" application freaking out. Its trying to remux the current channel and you push a channel change to it mid-stream, and it could get confused. I would suggest you contact R5000 support as well.

I dont know if I have that other line you mentioned, I will look when I have time to shutdown my client.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Keenan

It's a Motorola DSR505, apparently it's very similar, or even the same, as the Moto boxes Voom was using, and I'm 99.9% sure that they are not MPEG4 compatible. As far as I know, SC is not sending anything out MPEG4 yet.

I tried the REC button and it starts to record, I see the quality, rate and file size, but after about 20 secs or so it kicks out with an error code, something with a 255 in it. I'll have to try it again to get the exact error code.

Thought I would note that ver.25b of the R5000 DVR app fixed my missing channel problem, it's also supposed to address a problem with Sage and .ts files.

[Kirby]

So what are the channels reported as (in the DVR app) when you tune one in? Are they normal MPEG-2 or something different? I've been using pretty much this same DVR app for a few months now (alpha release) and its always nice to see what channels and resolutions are being sent

[Keenan]

All 4 are MPEG2-1920x1080, I don't know why they don't work with the previous version DVR app.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Keenan

All 4 are MPEG2-1920x1080, I don't know why they don't work with the previous version DVR app.

Must be nice to get new channels in full 1080i resolution and MPEG-2... if you tell me they are high (17+ mbit) bitrate I'm gonna scream!

[MarkV]

I am using a DirecTV R5000-HD unit and have a few questions before I jump in. Hopefully, someone is familiar enough with SageTV + R5000 to answer them.

Is it a reasonable "guide" browser ? I despise Zap2It (and imagine TitanTV is similar). I want a GUI that I can move around in like I would the GUI on the DirecTV unit itself. What about "search" functionality ? Is it possible to search the guide for particular titles?

How many licenses are necessary ? I have PC that will be attached to the R5000 and then I have 3 PCs that are on the network that would like to be able to drive the "guide" (only one at a time). Is this a SageTV license and 3 Client SageTV licenses or can a license float ?

What's the difference between the SageTV client and SageTV Placeshifter license ? (That's probably documented somewhere)

Once recorded, can I use SageTV as an interface to the multitude of TS files that span across shares on my network ?

How good is the R5000-HD support ? Good or annoyingly almost there ?

Thanks,
Mark

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by MarkV

I am using a DirecTV R5000-HD unit and have a few questions before I jump in. Hopefully, someone is familiar enough with SageTV + R5000 to answer them.

Well first I'll say, have you looked at SageTV at all? Do you know what it offers? Because in general, the R5000 fully integrates and Sage is fully functional with it.

Is it a reasonable "guide" browser ? I despise Zap2It (and imagine TitanTV is similar). I want a GUI that I can move around in like I would the GUI on the DirecTV unit itself.

SageTV uses Zap2It data, but I assume you're talking about the websites. The guide is fully integrated and remote navigable.

What about "search" functionality ? Is it possible to search the guide for particular titles?

Title, actor, keyword, yes.

How many licenses are necessary ? I have PC that will be attached to the R5000 and then I have 3 PCs that are on the network that would like to be able to drive the "guide" (only one at a time). Is this a SageTV license and 3 Client SageTV licenses or can a license float ?

You would need one SageTV license, and 2 or 3 client licenses depending on how you configure it. The R5000 doesn't (AFAIK) need to be to connected to the same PC running SageTV since it's a network encoder. So if you don't want to use the R5000 PC for viewing, you could install SageTV on one of the 3 networked PCs, and then Client on the other two.

The other option would be Placeshifter instead of client, it's licenses are "per seat". However Placeshifter is more limted than Client (configuration/decoders/etc), so I would strongly recommend Client, at least for your primary interface(s).

What's the difference between the SageTV client and SageTV Placeshifter license ? (That's probably documented somewhere)

Client is intended for use on a lan, and provides all the functionality of SageTV to networked computers.

Placeshifter is designed for use over a WAN (the internet) it supports on the fly transcoding (to reduce bandwidth), but is more limited in it's functionality (can't choose decoders, can't play DVDs, etc).

Once recorded, can I use SageTV as an interface to the multitude of TS files that span across shares on my network ?

Everything Sage records it provides access to. Stuff that wasn't recorded in Sage can be "imported" (basically means listed by) and played that way.

How good is the R5000-HD support ? Good or annoyingly almost there ?

I'll leave that to the R5000 experts.

[MarkV]

Thanks for the info. From the other posts that I've read (haven't made it through the 17 pages of this thread), it sounds like the R5000 is mostly workable and those using SageTV with it are happy with the functionality.

A GUI over Zap2IT is perfectly fine. Zap2It through the R5000HD PVR interface is painfully slow.