GeForce 6150 issues

[IncredibleHat]

I had been using the MSI drivers that came with the machine, but was having some ugly playback issue with a 'pause/speedup' problem.

Well, last night I installed 91.47 drivers, and watched a recorded show, and all was perfect.

I mean, PERFECT. The playback was smooth, clean, no jitters, no stutters, and no pauses or hiccups!

Then this morning, I had to uninstall zoomplayer and reinstall it (it got bunged up somehow), got that running perfectly, but now sagetv is doing THIS PROBLEM with the stupid little boxes all over the screen!!! WTF?!

MAN this so pisses me off. I spend 2 hours trying everything in the book, and out of the book to make sage stop doing this.

VMR9 and FSE is on for zoomplayer, and it has not a SINGLE bit of problems. This has to be a SageTV + VMR9 issue. Turning off VMR9 in sage clears up the boxes, but also makes the playback so butt-ugly that I can't stand it (because its now using overlay mode). If this was a problem with the 6150, then why hasn't nvidia fixed it? AND WHY does it work perfectly in Zoomplayer ?!?! HUH?!?!

[kricker]

oohhh IncredibleHat, I feel your pain....I REALLY, REALLY do......I see the black grid in SageTV and in Zoomplayer. But only with mpeg-2 content, so I'm leaning toward Purevideo as the culprit......but then again, I think it has happened using the Sage decoder as well....I can't remember. I need to start writing down notes for all the different crap I've tried to get it to work.

[IncredibleHat]

Right now I just installed the beta 92.91 drivers, and thigns are working... but I havnt quit sage yet and rebooted a third time to see if the problem comes back out of the blue again.

I'm watching some shows tonight, so Im not touching anything until they are over with lol

EDIT: I may end up buying a 7600 to use... as it appears the only reports of this I can find, are with people who use the 6150 of some sort. ? Interesting huh ...

[Mahoney]

I had it happen every time I used VMR9, until I went back to the 8x.xx drivers on the MSI motherboard site. If any of the new 9x.xx drivers do end up working I'd be very interested to hear about it!

May end up getting a 7600GT in the end anyway, as I want to do HD and I can't see the 6150 coping.

[kricker]

I played some WMV HD last night with zoomplayer, and it couldn't have been smoother. I need to dl some .ts files to see how they playback.

[IncredibleHat]

BREAKTHROUGH!!!

I discovered some things about this hideous problem!

I want those who are having this trouble, to try out my findings, to see if they get the same results. Ok, bear with me on the explanation... I want to try to make it clear as possible, but that requires a lot of words

Versions:

• nVidia Forceware 92.91 (also in 91.47)
• nVidia Purevideo (Bronze) Retail 1.02-223
• SageTV 5.0.4
• Zoomplayer Pro 4.51
• PVR 150 v 20_35_23348_3264

My Preferred and Normal Settings:

• FSE ON
• VMR9 ON
• NVIDIA Decoder set for video decoder
• All other Video/Audio settings 'default'
• DVD section is all ‘defaults’ as I don’t use it


Observations:

• With the stock MSI nvidia drivers that I used to use (82.05), this problem did NOT exist (as confirmed by a few others).
• Any nvidia driver I have tried that isn't of the MSI supplied, causes this problem with the grid of boxes.
• This problem ONLY occurs when VMR9 is set in SageTV (it is a SageTV exclusive issue).
• FSE has nothing to do with it.
• PureVideo is not the cause, as selecting the InterVideo NonCSS hauppauge Decoders do the exact same thing.
• Zoomplayer never has this problem, even when Zoomplayer is set to VMR9 (any of them). ALSO even when watching a recording that SageTV is currently recording!


To Cause the Problem:

• Have SageTV set to: Video/Audio -> Video Renderer: VMR9
• Launch SageClient
• Watch Live TV (either from the menu option, or going to the guide and selecting a channel to 'watch now')
• Do not play ANY recordings before watching Live TV first
• The boxies will strike within seconds
• The only way to clear them out is to quit SageClient


To Avoid the Problem:

• All settings the same (VMR9 on etc)
• Launch SageClient
• Go to a previous recording in SageTV Recordings
• Watch it for at least 5 seconds, Stop
• Then you can go watch Live TV without any boxies

SageTV will now behave fine until the next time I quit the client and reload it... in which case I need to repeat the steps of watching a prior recording before doing anything.

The reason why I did not notice this boxy problem the night I initially installed the new 91.47 drivers (and thus thought everything worked fine), was because I had ONLY been testing/watching previously recorded shows!

I use FSE, and as such I must QUIT SageTV to go to Zoomplayer, because SageTV does not gracefully go minimized with FSE on (bad programming in Sage). Since I have to quit it, that means I have to load it back up when I want to return to TV viewing/recorded show watching. Pain in the ass yes, but until Frey fix that stupid bug with FSE, it's what I am forced too do.

Due to this relaunching of the client, this new VMR9 bug in SageTV now takes effect with the boxies if I go straight into watching Live TV first. However, now with the discovery that if I watch a previous recording FIRST (for a few seconds) before doing anything else... the boxy problem can be avoided until Frey fix THAT bug now too!

However now that I discovered that watching live, somehow freaks out the sage.VideoPlayback engine, I can 'prime' the engine by watching a recorded show real quick first.


My Conclusions:

• Newest nvidia drivers work great! Smoother image, clearer, faster. They even have some nice settings with Purevideo DVD decoders too.
• FSE is broken in SageTV – needs to be fixed
• VMR9 is broken in SageTV with 9x.xx nvidia drivers installed – needs to be fixed
• Purevideo actually has nothing to do with this problem
• Sound decoders have no bearing on this issue

Now... The blame game begins! Frey will blame nVidia “Whaaaa its a graphics driver problem, not OUR software”. nVidia will blame Frey “Whaaa video playback works fine in every other software, so its not OUR drivers”.

Thus, this problem will NEVER be fixed. So, the end users will be forced to constantly deal with this shit, and have to figure out these ‘workarounds’ to manage the problems so we can get the kind of clear and great playback that we demand.

COME ON FREY AND NVIDIA!!! WORK TOGETHER AND FIX THIS PROBLEM!

[blade]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

BREAKTHROUGH!!!

I use FSE, and as such I must QUIT SageTV to go to Zoomplayer, because SageTV does not gracefully go minimized with FSE on (bad programming in Sage). Since I have to quit it, that means I have to load it back up when I want to return to TV viewing/recorded show watching. Pain in the ass yes, but until Frey fix that stupid bug with FSE, it's what I am forced too do.

Not everyone has this problem, I can minimize to the tray and return to fullscreen while using FSE without any problems. It is possible there is something with the drivers, vga bios, etc... that may be causing the problem. My understanding is that every program that uses FSE has some problems, they just vary from program to program.

• Newest nvidia drivers work great! Smoother image, clearer, faster. They even have some nice settings with Purevideo DVD decoders too.
• FSE is broken in SageTV – needs to be fixed
• VMR9 is broken in SageTV with 9x.xx nvidia drivers installed – needs to be fixed

-Told you so.
-It's broken for some people and not others, but it supposed to have been fixed/improved with v5.1
-Not sure what you mean by VMR9 being broken, works perfectly fine on my 6600GT, 6200, and even an ancient GeForce3

Nvidia is causing a bit of a mess with all their bios, driver, and purevideo updates.

[IncredibleHat]

FSE is indeed a 'per program' problem. It all depends on if the developers of a program want to spend the extra time to make their program savvy. Zoom for instance, works ok. So do a few 'casual games' that are 3d (they minimize fine, and allow alt-tabbing etc). However a game like uh... Hitman 2, basically bombs when you try to alt-tab. SageTV is just one that does not work well with everything.

By broken VMR9, I mean what I just wrote.

6150 owners have this problem. Only have this problem with SageTV, and only have this problem with 9x.xx nvidia drivers. nVidia claims their drivers are compatible with 6150 (even 6100). 6150 is an 'onboard only' GPU... it is not sold as an add-on card. This VMR9 issue does not occur in zoom. Does not occur in theatertek either (god thats a junky program though lol).

So, the problem exists. Plain and simple.

If I went and wasted money on a 7600gt, I am sure the VMR9 issue will go away for SageTV. However thats not the point. The point is, nvidia claim their drivers work for 6150, and SageTV is the ONLY program I can find this problem with. So... the two are linked, there is a problem, and the companies need to fix it.

EDIT: Besides... why do YOU care? You dont have a 6150, you dont have the problem... heh.

'nuff said.

... maybe I'll test out the 5.1 beta ...

[kricker]

OK Zoomplayer will causes grids for me too if I have the following setting checked:
filter control/settings/Enable YUV mixing on all VMR Video Renderers (Less CPU overhead on some configurations)

Zoom Player 5 beta 7
nVidia Forceware 91.47
nVidia PureVideo 1.02.233
nVidia nforce 8.26
SageTV 5.0.4.92

After uninstalling PureVideo and using the Sage Mpeg Video Decoder, this setting no longer causes Zoomplayer to have the black grid. Sage still has the grid though, doesn't matter if FSE is on or off.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

Now... The blame game begins! Frey will blame nVidia “Whaaaa its a graphics driver problem, not OUR software”.... Thus, this problem will NEVER be fixed.

This has not been my experience with SageTV support. When I recently suggested that a problem might be hardware or driver related, they said, No, we think it might be ours, let us investigate some more to find out for sure.

Also remember this is a user-to-user forum, not an official support forum. The Sage devs may post here, but they don't have time to read through every thread. If you want to make sure your issue gets their attention, submit a support request. As far as I can tell, nobody on this thread has done that yet. If it seems like your issue is being ignored, maybe that's why.

[kricker]

Ok, more info...
Is seems that using FSE in Sage is indeed tricky. Once I enable it, I must quit Sage and restart it for FSE to take effect. Once this is done I get no grid, with either ffdshow as the decoder or Sage's decoder.

I just re-installed Purevideo and it works with FSE enabled as well. I can minimize and restore Sage (tried it about 20 times) and everything is fine. But If I put Sage into windowed mode the grid appears.

[blade]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

6150 owners have this problem. Only have this problem with SageTV, and only have this problem with 9x.xx nvidia drivers. nVidia claims their drivers are compatible with 6150 (even 6100). 6150 is an 'onboard only' GPU... it is not sold as an add-on card. This VMR9 issue does not occur in zoom. Does not occur in theatertek either (god thats a junky program though lol).

So, the problem exists. Plain and simple.

Nvidia claims a lot of things that simply aren't true. For example WMV9 doesn't work on the 6600gt agp. It used to and they broke it with a driver update then removed it from the feature list instead of fixing it. They claim h264 works which it does not on 6600gt agp cards unless you're using a SSE2 capable processor.

Also to get component output from the 6xxx series cards they supposedly required a bios update despite the fact it worked with previous driver versions then I believe they later released a driver that allowed it to work with the old bios like it used to.

I don't have a 6150, but was considering purchasing two of them until I read how many people were having problems not just with Sage, but other apps as well. Now I'm looking for other alternatives. I just don't see how if VMR9 is broken in Sage that it only affects one very specific setup. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that it seems a little odd.

Is the problem kricker has with zoomplayer the same one you said was exclusively a Sage problem?

[kricker]

Yes it is. Unless you check that option (which by default is off) it doesn't happen. But I turned it on and off multiple times to confirm it.

I just installed the ASUS 82.05 drivers, and the grid no longer happens in either Zoomplayer or Sage, and playback is much smoother in both. I can use Sage in fullscreen with or without FSE, and in windowed mode. Previously with the 91.47 drivers from nVidia, even when Sage played without the grid, if I brought up the OSD playblack would stutter. Zoomplayers playback was also stuttery with 91.47.

It is really weird, because any 80s driver I tried from nVidia gave me strange video corruption. Things were flickering all over the screen for no reason. I took a shot in the dark trying the Asus drivers, but they seem to be working just fine. 1st time ever I had to use a 3rd party driver.

[bcjenkins]

So would you think anyone playing HD content would benefit from trying the ASUS drivers if they have an AGP 6600GT card? The reason would be to get HW decoding support for WMV9 and H.264?

[kricker]

I haven't had a chance to try HD yet, only SD. Gimme an hour or so and I'll see what happens. I also want to see if I can run the latest PureVideo with these older drivers, I rolled it back to 1.02-185. Can you point me to any online content that I can test with?

[IncredibleHat]

Interesting information...

Kricker Re ZP: I looked at my settings in zoomplayer, and checked for YUV on all VMR, and its on. However I cannot for the life of me get zoomplayer to show the grid problem. I use VMR9 for normal media (as well as DVD settings). I can play the same shows recorded in SageTV, and no problems. I cannot get it to fault. This doesn't mean it exists, obviously you are having the issue, so I guess it ISNT related to just sage!

Kricker Re FSE: The way FSE behaves for me is a bit different. Everyone has to quit sage and relaunch it for the FSE setting to take effect.

However for me, I can only "Exit From Fullscreen" once. The problem is returning back to FSE mode from being reduced to windowed (or minimized). When trying to do this on my setup, Sage will immediately exit. No error messages, no warnings.

Also, once I have exited from fullscreen, the only way to get SageTV to load up BACK to Full Screen mode utilizing FSE, is to launch SageTV with "-startup" set in the shortcut (which is also what I have my HIP settings as). This insures that FSE is ACTUALLY being initialized, and SageTV isnt simply running in fullscreen (non-exclusive) mode. Confused yet? =)


This problem is indeed becoming a really weird one!


I found a post that someone using BTV (ugh lol!) was having this very problem with a 6150. However they have not gotten anywhere on trying to figure a way around it.


GKusnick: One of the deciding factors of why I purchased, and support, SageTV, is due to the company behind it. They are supportive, and actually DO upgrade their software for the better. I may have been hastey with the blame game comment... Just a fit of frustration exuding from my fingertips. I have sent in a support message. I did a while back for the FSE issue too, and they confirmed that FSE minimize/restore etc should be fixed in the new 5.1 they are working on (hopefully ).


Welp... I have done my steps about 100 times today, and its pretty rock solid in its behavior. To NOT get boxes: I launch sage, play an old recording for 5 seconds, stop, then sagetv is good to go for the entire time that its running. To GET boxes: I launch sage, then go to live tv viewing first... sage will be hosed until I quit it completely and relaunch.

Further info:
• FSE for me does not affect the problem at all.
• Purevideo does not have any affect on the problem for me, on or off, installed or not.
• Zoomplayer cant seem to show this problem, but I keep trying new settings (there are a billion of them in ZP).

I wish I could figure out how Kricker got his zoomplayer to show the problem sorry! but mine refuses to fail!

[IncredibleHat]

Hmm... maybe since I have been using the 92.91 nvidia drivers for all these RECENT tests... maybe nvidia fixed SOME of the problem in them???

I'm sort of reluctant to go back to 91.47 to confirm or not though ... hehe... maybe later in the week when I'm not wanting to watch something

[kricker]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

Kricker Re ZP: I looked at my settings in zoomplayer, and checked for YUV on all VMR, and its on. However I cannot for the life of me get zoomplayer to show the grid problem. I use VMR9 for normal media (as well as DVD settings). I can play the same shows recorded in SageTV, and no problems. I cannot get it to fault. This doesn't mean it exists, obviously you are having the issue, so I guess it ISNT related to just sage!

Which VMR9 are you using in Zoomplayer?

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

However for me, I can only "Exit From Fullscreen" once. The problem is returning back to FSE mode from being reduced to windowed (or minimized). When trying to do this on my setup, Sage will immediately exit. No error messages, no warnings.

This happens for me if I go to windowed mode and then try to return to fullscreen mode. It crashes everytime. Then after restarting Sage and trying to go fullscreen it still crashes. I have to turn off FSE to get back into fullscreen mode. For me this does not happen when I minimize to the tray. I can minimize and restore all day long without problems.

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

I wish I could figure out how Kricker got his zoomplayer to show the problem sorry! but mine refuses to fail!

Strange to try to make problems happen eh? Try the Zoomplayer 5 beta 7. Install it, then change to VMR9 renderless and check that one option I listed above. Of course you then have to stop playback and re-open the file for the settings to take effect.

[kricker]

If PureVideo is supposed to help with WMV9 and h.264 playback, how can I know if it is working? Should I see the PureVideo icon in the tray when I playback content in WMP or Zomplayer?

[blade]

Originally Posted by kricker

If PureVideo is supposed to help with WMV9 and h.264 playback, how can I know if it is working? Should I see the PureVideo icon in the tray when I playback content in WMP or Zomplayer?

I don't think you need purevideo to get the acceleration. I think the only way to tell is to check your cpu usage. Here is a pretty good thread full of good info and pissed off folks who want their acceleration. Right now I don't really care about h264 acceleration, but when it's possible in Sage I'll be wanting my card to do what it was supposed to when I purchased it. I hope Nvidia gets their act together before I join the ranks of the unhappy customers.