What do you think of the upgrade policy?

[Kev]

Or you could buy Sage version 6 with fixes for bugs in versions 4/5 that I have spent over $100 on already THIS YEAR. If they are going to be charging for upgrades, they really need to have a update process. I can see the point of paying extra for new functionality like place shifting, but all I want is fixes for previous bugs. I had posted multiple bug reports and got prompt replies stating they were able to duplicate the problems and that there would be a fix in the next version (little did I know they would expect me to pay for it).

I am a little surpised of the almost cult like following and agreement from the forum to go along with the extra charge. I ask all to take a step back and review my side of the story and comment.

posts merged here so people don't have to reply to the same posts in 2 different places.

[Kev]

I agree with Deadbolt. I have no problem with paying for new functionality but not to fix bugs that shouldn't have been there to begin with. I have spent over $120 this year to Sagetv and have reported my share of bugs. They respond to the bugs saying it will be fixed in the next version... now they expect me to pay for that.... rediculous.

If you are going to charge for new versions, then you need free updates on unreasonable bugs in previous versions. For instance, if you have version 5, don't expect this media center/extender software to play and entire song as it has a bug to cut off the last 10-seconds of every song. Now I have to pay an additional $30 if I want the entire song to play (would have thought that would have been included in my original version). If this is how Sage is going to handle updates to there numerous bugs, I wouldn't recomend it to anybody.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by Kev

Now I have to pay an additional $30 if I want the entire song to play

If you don't have plans to upgrade to v6, I suggest that you contact Sage about the original bug report and ask how they are going to resolve it. Sounding off here may make you feel better , but only Sage can resolve the issue for you.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Kev

Or you could buy Sage version 6 with fixes for bugs in versions 4/5 that I have spent over $100 on already THIS YEAR. If they are going to be charging for upgrades, they really need to have a update process. I can see the point of paying extra for new functionality like place shifting, but all I want is fixes for previous bugs. I had posted multiple bug reports and got prompt replies stating they were able to duplicate the problems and that there would be a fix in the next version (little did I know they would expect me to pay for it).

I am a little surpised of the almost cult like following and agreement from the forum to go along with the extra charge. I ask all to take a step back and review my side of the story and comment.

I would suggest contacting Sage about the problem and see if they plan to provide fixes for your problems. Just because they aren't releasing anymore v5 updates or free upgrades doesn't necessarily mean they won't provide a fix for your problems. Sage has already said they're still providing support for v5 and have provided fixes to people for some of the problems they had with v5.

Edit: Odd how did this end up in this thread instead of the other one.

[Kev]

In reply to rick and blade I responded to sage on my bug report and am waiting to hear back. I will post the response. Thanks for the feedback.

[davidjames]

I'm fine with the policy. Had I known V6 was going to come out so soon, I would have waited to 2/3 weeks for V5 prior to purchasing V4 however.

I'm happy no new license is required for extenders and clients.

[joelc]

Last time I came to this site, a little over a year ago I believe, I was willing to pay for an upgrade. I could not easily find anything that stated download me and upgrade. After some searching of the site, I found it interesting that Sage TV was willing to give their upgrades away for free. They made comments that you simply download the new installation file and it will upgrade. "Why would anybody charge for upgrades?", they stated. Huh...

I agree on the upgrade charge and upgrade package. I would be willing to pay $30 a year in upgrades. But make the upgrade work. I just installed (and uninstalled) version 5.0.4 and it blew away all of my settings and favorites. Everything, gone. Really nice. When I upgraded from 3 to 4.1.3 it was flawless.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by joelc

I just installed (and uninstalled) version 5.0.4 and it blew away all of my settings and favorites.

5.0.4? Wow. And you didn't back up?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by joelc

I just installed (and uninstalled) version 5.0.4 and it blew away all of my settings and favorites.

When you run the installer, make sure you choose to install it in the same location as the previous version. That should allow it to continue to use your old settings & database. In fact, your old files should still exist in the old install dir.

If the previous version was uninstalled first, the installer won't automatically know where the old version was located. You still need to double check the install directory during installation, though, because even when the old version is still around, the old location won't be recognized on some system for some reason.

- Andy

[mike1961]

I bought version 4 earlier this year right before 5 came out (a few weeks) and I'm not the least bit upset about the v6 update. I think $30 is more than fair. For one thing, it will probably be a year or so before the next major update when they charge again (I could be wrong but I'm just judging from the history I've read).

Second - I'm totally against the idea of continuing to fix bugs in v5 and I'll explain why. First, as an owner of a software company, I know the drain it would be to try and keep track of two separate software products. I'd rather see them devote all the energy to the latest version. Second, there have been numerous updates, bugfixes and features in v5 since v4. I'm sure there had to be at least one stable version since my purchase of 4. But, with new versions come new features and some of the new features may also introduce new bugs in those new features. Now, to ask a fix for those new features I think is asking a bit much. Ever heard the saying, "give an inch, take a mile?" I think Sage has given us a lot more than an inch here, an inch there. I have no problem giving back and supporting the company. Frankly, at $30, I really have no idea how they stay in business. My charge for support and updates is a lot more than that (but, yes it is a different industry).

Most important of all, ask yourselves if their policy is "in line" with the industry. I certainly think so. The customizability of Sage and support from these forums goes a lot lot further than a $30. FWIW, I pay almost that much to the garbage man...and I do that every month. When I had Tivo, subcription service cost $20 every month.

I suppose one thing is clear. When you have a lot of customers, you can't make everyone happy.

Just my two cents.
Mike

[mike1961]

JDS - it should not do this but I always copy and make a backup of the Sage folder as Sage recommends.

By the way, ON ANOTHER NOTE, I noticed when I install the 6.0.12 version from 6.0.11. I had to reinstall all the plugins. Is this because the core changed? Is there any way to avoid having to reinstall all the plugins when there is an update? Doesn't take long but just makes for a little more work.

Thanks,
Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I noticed when I install the 6.0.12 version from 6.0.11. I had to reinstall all the plugins. Is this because the core changed? Is there any way to avoid having to reinstall all the plugins when there is an update? Doesn't take long but just makes for a little more work.

Everytime you upgrade you have to reinstall the plugins. Each upgrade reverts back to the newest default stv.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by blade

I would suggest contacting Sage about the problem and see if they plan to provide fixes for your problems. Just because they aren't releasing anymore v5 updates or free upgrades doesn't necessarily mean they won't provide a fix for your problems. Sage has already said they're still providing support for v5 and have provided fixes to people for some of the problems they had with v5.

Edit: Odd how did this end up in this thread instead of the other one.

Well I followed up with Sage and this was there rather pathetic response:

"The issue in V5 was due to a limitation with the conversion technique we
were using. It's been rearchitected for V6 so it doesn't have that issue so
the fix won't be provided in a V5 update. V6 only requires you to purchase a license if you bought the software before V5 came out.


SageTV Support Team"


So I guess we should not have expect sage V5 and clients to play complete songs. This is rediculous. We should not be forced to pay for bug fixes, specifically ones like this. In fact, they should be paying us for testing there software considering they don't seem to be doing it much on there own. I understand all software will have some bugs, but I think a media center software should be expected to be able to play a complete song. This is completely unacceptable.
Any recomendations?
Also, I don't appreciate the administrator moving my posts to hide them within a single thread. The subject was appropriate in both areas.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Kev

Also, I don't appreciate the administrator moving my posts to hide them within a single thread. The subject was appropriate in both areas.

Check the forum rules, #3, about posting the same thing in multiple places. The purpose is to prevent wasting the time of others who reply in one place only to find that someone answered the same question with the same repsonse somewhere else... as evidently already happened with your 2 posts, above, before I put them into one place.

- Andy

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Check the forum rules, #3, about posting the same thing in multiple places. The purpose is to prevent wasting the time of others who reply in one place only to find that someone answered the same question with the same repsonse somewhere else... as evidently already happened with your 2 posts, above, before I put them into one place.

- Andy

The rule states not to ask the same question in two spots... I didn't. Rather I commented or made statments in two areas that were certainly relevant to the specific subject of those threads, but now I am getting into technicallities. In the end I still feel as though your intent was to hide my dissatisfactions and now I am starting to understand why these posts appear to be so positive all the time.
However since I have your (Opus) attention in these posts, maybe you can answer my question (in this single thread). Why am I expected to pay for bug fixes. Playing music is in the description of Sage and I don't think it is too much to expect for that to mean the entire song. This is a bug that should have never made it through to release, and I certainly shouldn't be expecteed to pay for a fix now.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by Kev

So I guess we should not have expect sage V5 and clients to play complete songs.

I thought that v5 and clients did play, your problem was only with MVP?

[Kev]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

I thought that v5 and clients did play, your problem was only with MVP?

I only use it through my MVP which is hooked into my whole house sound system, so I know it doesn't play complete songs then. I actually never tried directly on the Sage computer though, but from the Sage support reply it sounds like it may not work there either:
"The issue in V5 was due to a limitation with the conversion technique we
were using. It's been rearchitected for V6 so it doesn't have that issue so
the fix won't be provided in a V5 update."

Either way, it should work and I shouldn't have to pay extra for a fix.

[Necro]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I...Second, there have been numerous updates, bugfixes and features in v5 since v4. I'm sure there had to be at least one stable version since my purchase of 4. But, with new versions come new features and some of the new features may also introduce new bugs in those new features. Now, to ask a fix for those new features I think is asking a bit much...

Mike, I think your missing one key point - Sage advertises the product as having all of these features and as them WORKING (with the MVP no less...and the wireless MVP also). So long as they have made claims that v5 will do XY and Z, they have an obligation to make sure it CAN do that. (Just to be clear, it lists what the MVPs work with here: http://www.sagetv.com/extender.html?sageSub=tv).

This is clearly a lack of function which was advertised that should be repaired. If it was an unadvertised feature or something off the wall that 1-2 people had issues with, thats one thing...but this is a KNOWN issue that they chose to ignore and now are charging anyone using an MVP $30 to fix.

Analogy time: Company advertises their product can slice, dice, and jullienne. Well, the jullienne adapter doesnt work. So...you pay $30 more to get the correct adapter -or- they send you the right one? They send you the right one due to laws dealing with false advertising, etc.

[rickgillyon]

Inappropriate analogy time!

SageTV is not a standalone product that does three things, it's a complex product that does many things on almost infinite computer platform permutations. To compare it to a food processor or washing machine is just daft.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Necro

Analogy time: Company advertises their product can slice, dice, and jullienne. Well, the jullienne adapter doesnt work. So...you pay $30 more to get the correct adapter -or- they send you the right one? They send you the right one due to laws dealing with false advertising, etc.

One question though. What does a company do when they provide support for a product such as the MVP, but other products such as routers, switches, onboard nics, etc... don't follow industry standards or work exactly work as they're supposed to and for whatever reason this causes the MVP not to function properly. The company then tries to modify their product to work with the other products that don't meet standards. Should the company be required to provide the work they put into a workaround to their users for free because other hardware wasn't up to snuff?

BTW I'm not saying this is the case with what you're talking about; however, not all of the problems that people have with the MVPs and Sage in general are Sage's fault. Also just because other wireless products work with a particular router doesn't mean that it doesn't vary from the standard. Unfortunately there aren't many good reviews on routers and switches, but from the few I've seen there can be huge differences between routers of the same brand.