HdHomeRun - Our Answer to QAM?!

[Patilan]

Originally Posted by Keenan

Are there any simple setup instructions for connecting the unit directly to the PC instead of going through a hub/router? With my setup the unit is connected by 100' of e-net cable to the hub and the PC is connected by another 100', so the signal has to go about 200' from the HDHomeRun to the Sage PC. Which shouldn't be a problem as far as I know, but we are talking about two 38mbps streams on the connection. It seems a direct connection might help eliminate any possible latency problems, if they are in fact an issue, I'm not that familiar with when one might see bandwidth/distance issues with a home network.

When I ping a computer that's physically located about 850 miles away from me, I get a round trip of about 34 milliseconds. Do you think that the round trip on your 200 feet cables would be even measurable? And even if latency problems existed in your case -- and they don't -- they should be irrelevant for this particular type of device. Besides, switches nowadays are so cheap and smart, they sense the type of cables, they take care of DHCP and stuff, that you don't really need to go into the trouble of seting up a direct connection.

[Muchacho]

Originally Posted by eMajor

I received my HDHomeRun yesterday. Setup was a breeze and I'm really happy with how well its working with Sage.

Is anyone using ShowAnalyzer to detect commercials in QAM HD recordings? I'm having a problem where it seems to be leaking memory. Its using upwards in 1GB within the first 20 seconds of scanning which is bringing my PC to its knees. I've had to turn it off (via DirMon) which means no SD shows are being scanned either.

I use comskip and it worked fine with the HDHR HD files. If showanalyzer cannot handle them, try comskip.

[eMajor]

Originally Posted by Muchacho

I use comskip and it worked fine with the HDHR HD files. If showanalyzer cannot handle them, try comskip.

Thanks for the info. After changing that encoding property, I tried ShowAnalyzer with a .TS file and was surprised to see it do much better. Memory stayed in check. I'm going to see how it does with tonight's shows.

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Keenan

...Are there any simple setup instructions for connecting the unit directly to the PC instead of going through a hub/router?

This is in the Tech Support forum on Silicon Dust:

Originally Posted by Polypro

I tried both methods with success. I went with a lightweight DHCP server (tftpd32) because when you Bridge, both NICs get a new, identical IP...I didn't want to change any of my port forwarding on the router. Of the 3 DHCP programs that I tried (Magik, DHCPTurbo, and tftpd32), tftpd32 was the easiest (never got the other 2 to work...tons of settings)

(Going from memory, at work now) For tftpd32, you basically set a static IP and Subnet Mask on your second NIC (that the HDHR is connected to). I didn't need a Gateway or DNS entry. In the tftpd32 settings, select that IP to bind to. Uncheck all the sevices it can do except DHCP, set the IP range and Subnet Mask and the # of Leases.

As an example, my normal network is:

Router 192.168.1.177
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.240
DNS 1 & 2 are OpenDNS.org IPs

HTPC Wireless NIC
IP 192.168.1.178
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.240
Gateway 192.168.1.177
DNS 192.168.1.177

For the HDHR NIC I have:

IP 192.168.1.193
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.240
TFTPD32 Binds to 192.168.1.193/255.255.255.240
Lease 1 IP > HDHR gets 192.168.1.194

I just chose the next 16 address block above my normal network. Don't know if it's technically correct...but it works

I set the Metric on the wireless NIC higher than the HDHR NIC, as browsing to the first website was slower...I think XP was trying to browse on the HDHR NIC first.

P

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Patilan

When I ping a computer that's physically located about 850 miles away from me, I get a round trip of about 34 milliseconds. Do you think that the round trip on your 200 feet cables would be even measurable? And even if latency problems existed in your case -- and they don't -- they should be irrelevant for this particular type of device. Besides, switches nowadays are so cheap and smart, they sense the type of cables, they take care of DHCP and stuff, that you don't really need to go into the trouble of seting up a direct connection.

That's what I figured, but still, we're talking about almost a 80mbps stream of data so that's why I was curious.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Polypro

This is in the Tech Support forum on Silicon Dust:




P

Thanks.

[jkohn]

That's what I figured, but still, we're talking about almost a 80mbps stream of data so that's why I was curious.

Not being all that familiar with QAM, are you sure about those bandwidth numbers? I guess what you mean is that's the total bandwidth for two QAM channels (each of which can contain multiple HD/SD channels I presume), but is it encoded in such a way that the entire thing has to get transferred over the wire as opposed to just the channel you're actually recording? Seems like a poor design if so. Aren't there individual transport streams for each channel?

Given current hardware prices though, they should have just put a gigabit LAN connection on the thing.

[Morgan111]

Bandwidth infofrom the HDHomeRun BetaTester Forum:

Originally Posted by Jafa

BTW The data bandwidth to the PC core/memory is less with HDHomeRun than with a PCI card.

The HDHomeRun does hardware PID filtering so it only transfers the program you are watching/recording. With QAM a PCI card has to transfer 39Mbps across the PCI bus. A hi-res HDTV program will typically be 15Mbps so with the HDHomeRun it will only need 15Mbps.

Nick

Edit: Nick is "Mr HDHomeRun"

[Patilan]

Originally Posted by Keenan

That's what I figured, but still, we're talking about almost a 80mbps stream of data so that's why I was curious.

Don't confuse bandwidth with latency. These are two completely different things. As far as bandwidth goes, I highly doubt that you'll have 80mbps streams.

Your network is either 100mbps or it is not. And if it is, then you shouldn't worry about a thing in this particular setup.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Morgan111

Bandwidth infofrom the HDHomeRun BetaTester Forum:



Edit: Nick is "Mr HDHomeRun"

Okay, that's what I was curious about as 2 QAM channels is 38+38 for almost 80mbps.

[ToxMox]

Actually 2 filtered QAM channels would be 15+15 =30

[MTuckman]

I've been running the HDHR for 2 days now, and I am finding that there doesn't appear to be much impact on the network at all.

I currently have the HDHR, the laptop that is running the HDHR encoder, and the HTPC plugged into a Linksys WRT54GX4, which is active as the router for the wireless laptops that my family uses. When the HDHR is writing out two HD programs at the same time, I notice a bit of delay in normal web browsing, but that is more an issue with the performance of the router than bandwidth.

Using one of the utilities we use at work, I find that the network utilization with two HD programs at the same time is still under 50% at peak.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by ToxMox

Actually 2 filtered QAM channels would be 15+15 =30

It could be as high as 19.38mbps per filtered channel depending on what the station is sending. That 15mbps is an average given that some stations(720p) run lower bandwidth versus others(1080i) that run higher, up to that 19.38 number but typically they never get above 18 or so.

In any case, Nick has answered the question by indicating that only the selected filtered channel is sent from the HDHR. I think it was worth finding out about to see if it was the PC software doing the filtering or the HDHR itself. Now we know.

I'd like to add that the HDHR setup changes channels very quickly relative to a R5000/Star Choice setup I'm using as well, seems like at least 4-5 times quicker. I've never used a PC tuner card so I don't know how quick they are.

[bhyman1]

I'm pleased to say I now have my HDHomeRun up and running with QAM tuning working beautifully!

The only "problems" I ran into were the fact that my Sage server couldn't display the video in VLC since it has a junky video card in it. So I went to a client PC that plays back HD just fine and ran the GUI and VLC there.

Second thing was that there are so many channels, the command line channel scan scrolled through the command line window and I couldn't see the full on scan. The channels I want to use this for had scrolled on by past the limit of text lines the command line box will hold. Using the GUI made it tons easier, and really didn't take that long to scan through by hand.

I also had to use a channel line up from a neighboring market that thankfully has the same channels, but a different line up than my market. Sage really needs to have tuning guide data by tuner.

[farscapesg1]

I'm really thinking about picking one of these up.

Will they work in SageTV5, or do I have to be running the latest Beta for SageTV?

Also, on another tangent, do cable companies send out Digital signals even if you only have Extended Basic? I currently have Extended Basic and High-speed Internet through Time Warner. Would I be able to pick up HDTV local channels through QAM without actually paying for digital cable (and their STBs)?

[bhyman1]

Originally Posted by farscapesg1

I'm really thinking about picking one of these up.

Will they work in SageTV5, or do I have to be running the latest Beta for SageTV?

Also, on another tangent, do cable companies send out Digital signals even if you only have Extended Basic? I currently have Extended Basic and High-speed Internet through Time Warner. Would I be able to pick up HDTV local channels through QAM without actually paying for digital cable (and their STBs)?

From what I understand from a cable TV install friend of mine (for Time Warner actually) when you have Road Runner and extended basic cable the line is unfiltered so the Free HD channels should be there.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by farscapesg1

I'm really thinking about picking one of these up.

Will they work in SageTV5, or do I have to be running the latest Beta for SageTV?

Also, on another tangent, do cable companies send out Digital signals even if you only have Extended Basic? I currently have Extended Basic and High-speed Internet through Time Warner. Would I be able to pick up HDTV local channels through QAM without actually paying for digital cable (and their STBs)?

Most likely the answer is yes. However, if your cable company wants to be a jerk, it's possible that they would put a filter at your cable tap that would block the QAM frequencies.

edit: the above poster is correct that if you have internet chances are very low that they would do this, but it's still possible. The only way to find out for sure is to cancel your digital cable and see what happens. That's what i'm doing

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by farscapesg1

I'm really thinking about picking one of these up.

Will they work in SageTV5, or do I have to be running the latest Beta for SageTV?

I had it running in 5 just before I upgraded to 6, so yes it will work with SageTV ver. 5

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by bhyman1

Sage really needs to have tuning guide data by tuner.

That would be nice. I haven't spent a lot of time with it, but there needs to be a way to differentiate between the two tuners. I tried changing the call signs 1 letter on the second tuner but then I don't get any guide data. Not sure that it really matters though, haven't really thought it through completely yet.

[bhyman1]

From the way it was described to me a filter is only used to block channels you dont get with a cable box. So for example if you can get 1-99 without a box they would only add a filter for the "lifeline" service which is something like 1-13.

Once you get all the analog channels there's no use for any filtering. You couldn't just plug an unauthorized cable box or cable modem because it wont be allowed on the network anyways, thats not a matter of old school filtering.