Congrats on the HD media extender and Sage Server system

[mayamaniac]

Since we are on the Vista discussion, not sure how we got here on this thread, and putting DRM discussion aside, I think there are advantages in Vista if you use the PC as a playback device. But If we continue with SageTV and its MVP extender and soon to release HD Extender, then Vista won't matter. XP will be fine as a recording server and serving content to the extenders.

In Vista, I like the new display and audio drivers. I think SageTV can definitely make use of these new features to make playback of video and audio a lot smoother. For one thing I noticed in the Vista RC I tested, I can go fullscreen on the second monitor with SageTV, which I could never do in XP.

[mdnttoker]

Yeah, I think I"ll probably stay with XP until the stop supporting it

[davefred99]

160+ post later and Sage has had time to collect itself after CES and not a word.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by davefred99

160+ post later and Sage has had time to collect itself after CES and not a word.

Interesting... perhaps you just chose not to read SageTV's words? That's the extent of any details until further notice.

- Andy

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Interesting... perhaps you just chose not to read SageTV's words? That's the extent of any details until further notice.

- Andy

I read every work of it. No offence here but, I know you are the forum moderator but I did not know that you were officialy employed by Sage as there spokesperson.
I figured that something this important to so many of us that they would put out some sort of official statement. Maybe your post was meant to be just that but I didnt read it that way.

[Opus4]

Sometimes they post stuff; sometimes I post info. During CES, Jeff posted a short comment here. I waited until CES was over to discuss what details could be publicly stated. There was no big announcement posted anywhere else because, as I stated in my post, they aren't ready to release more details. SageTV's policy for a long time has been to not discuss details until they are ready to release or are very close to doing so.

- Andy

[Bathel]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Since we are on the Vista discussion, not sure how we got here on this thread, and putting DRM discussion aside, I think there are advantages in Vista if you use the PC as a playback device. But If we continue with SageTV and its MVP extender and soon to release HD Extender, then Vista won't matter. XP will be fine as a recording server and serving content to the extenders.

In Vista, I like the new display and audio drivers. I think SageTV can definitely make use of these new features to make playback of video and audio a lot smoother. For one thing I noticed in the Vista RC I tested, I can go fullscreen on the second monitor with SageTV, which I could never do in XP.

I think it depends on what you use your computer for.

I use mine as a audio Receiver. Vista offers me much better sound quality than XP did with Kmixer. If you're just using XP and SageTV as recording unit ... then I don't know that Vista will give you any advantage over XP (at least at this time).

To me if SageTV isn't looking toward a more full function HD recording/CD music jukebox/DVD (HD and BR) device ... then it's future is limited. I know it funtions well that way now ... but as a highend media source it would be better served to use the Vista audio system than the XP version.

Now, having said that. I haven't used SageTV in awhile, because it hasn't offered the functionality for my HDDirecTV. I'm starting to try to see what's been added and new so please correct me and point out where/if I'm wrong in my thinking.

To me ... If SageTV can't integrate Sat TV and HD recording then it's not going to be for me. If Microsoft can get VistaMCE to integrate with Sat (without totally killing it with security) then it will be a smoother and easier use.

Let me say it this way, SageTV might be the best thing since sliced bread ... but it's so hard for any "Normal" person to use that it's going to be hard for it ever to compete if it can't be "Dumb" proof. I'm going to be buying the new version of SageTV and playing around with it ... so my opinion might change, but for now I don't see it taking the place of Tivo or DirecTV verson of Tivo in the HD market unless things change.

Again, maybe I'm way off base here ... if so please give me some linkes to some HD stuff (mostly DirecTV HD) where I can be eductated. In the mean time I'll keep searching this site and playing with the new version to see what it can do.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Bathel

Now, having said that. I haven't used SageTV in awhile, because it hasn't offered the functionality for my HDDirecTV.

Nobody has*

I'm starting to try to see what's been added and new so please correct me and point out where/if I'm wrong in my thinking.

To me ... If SageTV can't integrate Sat TV and HD recording then it's not going to be for me.

*You should take a look at the R5000 mod. Completely DRM free satellite HD recording.

If Microsoft can get VistaMCE to integrate with Sat (without totally killing it with security) then it will be a smoother and easier use.

I suspect/fear it will (totally kill it with DRM).

Let me say it this way, SageTV might be the best thing since sliced bread ... but it's so hard for any "Normal" person to use that it's going to be hard for it ever to compete if it can't be "Dumb" proof. I'm going to be buying the new version of SageTV and playing around with it ... so my opinion might change, but for now I don't see it taking the place of Tivo or DirecTV verson of Tivo in the HD market unless things change.

I don't think PC PVRs will ever replace dedicated set top DVRs like those from providers, for the very reason you state.

[Bathel]

I'm looking into the R5000 now ... I'm thinking of getting it to test it out, but 500 bucks is a bunch to drop to just TEST out a system.

What I'm confused on is if it can do multiple recordings. It says "This DVR version will open up multiple instances (up to the number of devices connected to the PC, or a maximum of 4) allowing completely independent usage and control of each tuner"

So does that mean it can if you have 4 DTV STB AND 4 R5000 (that's 2000 bucks for a 4 tuner DVR) or do you only play for the R5000 once and can have 4 STB to go with it?

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by Bathel

I think it depends on what you use your computer for.

I use mine as a audio Receiver. Vista offers me much better sound quality than XP did with Kmixer. If you're just using XP and SageTV as recording unit then I don't know that Vista will give you any advantage over XP (at least at this time).

I use mine as a DVD Jukebox 50%,Recording unit 40% of the time and Music maybe 10%. I really can not tell the difference for music as I am not a real audiofile

Originally Posted by Bathel

To me if SageTV isn't looking toward a more full function HD recording/CD music jukebox/DVD (HD and BR) device ... then it's future is limited. I know it funtions well that way now ... but as a highend media source it would be better served to use the Vista audio system than the XP version.

Seams to me that Vista will come with too much content restictions.

Originally Posted by Bathel

Now, having said that. I haven't used SageTV in awhile, because it hasn't offered the functionality for my HDDirecTV. I'm starting to try to see what's been added and new so please correct me and point out where/if I'm wrong in my thinking.

Nothing has changed for Direct TV HD.

Originally Posted by Bathel

To me ... If SageTV can't integrate Sat TV and HD recording then it's not going to be for me. If Microsoft can get VistaMCE to integrate with Sat (without totally killing it with security) then it will be a smoother and easier use.

Vista MCE might give some relief with Cablecard support but it will come at great expense.

Originally Posted by Bathel

Let me say it this way, SageTV might be the best thing since sliced bread ... but it's so hard for any "Normal" person to use that it's going to be hard for it ever to compete if it can't be "Dumb" proof. I'm going to be buying the new version of SageTV and playing around with it ... so my opinion might change, but for now I don't see it taking the place of Tivo or DirecTV verson of Tivo in the HD market unless things change.

In our house we have 2 DTV pvr's 1 dtivo and 1nontivo and I do not see getting rid of them anytime soon. I fact I am planning on getting a DTV HDDvr soon. I dont think I can be satisfied with just OTA or in Clear QAM. I will never completly be happy with Sage or any other PC based PVR unless it gives me complete control of all HD programming.

Originally Posted by Bathel

Again, maybe I'm way off base here ... if so please give me some linkes to some HD stuff (mostly DirecTV HD) where I can be eductated. In the mean time I'll keep searching this site and playing with the new version to see what it can do.

Good luck,

Looks like Stranger beat me to the Punch

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by Bathel

I'm looking into the R5000 now ... I'm thinking of getting it to test it out, but 500 bucks is a bunch to drop to just TEST out a system.

What I'm confused on is if it can do multiple recordings. It says "This DVR version will open up multiple instances (up to the number of devices connected to the PC, or a maximum of 4) allowing completely independent usage and control of each tuner"

So does that mean it can if you have 4 DTV STB AND 4 R5000 (that's 2000 bucks for a 4 tuner DVR) or do you only play for the R5000 once and can have 4 STB to go with it?

Yes, you would need four r5000 devices to go with four STB boxes. Of course if you had a couple of OTA ATSC tuners you could go with 2 OTA and 2 r5000's for a pretty nice setup. Still quite expensive.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Bathel

I think it depends on what you use your computer for.

I use mine as a audio Receiver. Vista offers me much better sound quality than XP did with Kmixer. If you're just using XP and SageTV as recording unit ... then I don't know that Vista will give you any advantage over XP (at least at this time).

I was referring to SageTV and Vista only. Of course if you use your PC for other means, then Vista can have an advantage over XP. And who knows, with the upcoming HD extender, the sound quality might be better.

Originally Posted by Bathel

So does that mean it can if you have 4 DTV STB AND 4 R5000 (that's 2000 bucks for a 4 tuner DVR) or do you only play for the R5000 once and can have 4 STB to go with it?

I'm surprised if you have that much content to record 4 at once. Last time I checked, if you removed the local and sports HD channels, there are less than 10 HD channels from DirecTV.

Personally for me, most of the shows I watched are local channels. I haven't move to HD yet, but if I get good OTA signals, I'm fine with the local HD channels. So SageTV is still a good solution for a while for me.

I think the future of television will move through the internet with streaming content. When I'm sitting on my couch and browsing through Google Video via SageTV MVP Extender, I see it as a preview to the future of television. It's like "OnDemand" but with almost unlimited content. And SageTV may be one of the first to offer a streaming solution. Sure the video quality sucks right now at 320x240 and most people don't have fast enough broadband speed to stream anything higher that that, but that will change given 10 years or so. It may sound like a long time, but given the mess with the whole DRM crap from content to hardware, its gonna take a while to resolve anyway.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Bathel

I'm looking into the R5000 now ... I'm thinking of getting it to test it out, but 500 bucks is a bunch to drop to just TEST out a system.

What I'm confused on is if it can do multiple recordings. It says "This DVR version will open up multiple instances (up to the number of devices connected to the PC, or a maximum of 4) allowing completely independent usage and control of each tuner"

So does that mean it can if you have 4 DTV STB AND 4 R5000 (that's 2000 bucks for a 4 tuner DVR) or do you only play for the R5000 once and can have 4 STB to go with it?

You need 1 R5000 for each simultaneous recording you want to do. It relies on the STB to tune, and they can only tune 1 channel at a time.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davefred99

Seams to me that Vista will come with too much content restictions.

It provides the option/capability for additional restrictions, but does not force them on you. Any content that's unrestricted today, will still be unrestricted with Vista. This is a point I think a lot of people miss. Though I completely understand the aversion to content protection, I don't think MS can be faulted for including the option.

Just like I don't see a problem including HDCP on TVs (which continue to work fine with non-HDCP sources) I don't see a problem with providing the capability for content protection. That said I will always opt for unprotected content over protected content.

I place the fault 100% with the content owners for the restrictions that are on content.

[dbfresh23]

I think that anyone that buys an R5000 mod system for DirecTV is throwing money away. Since they don't offer R5000 for DirecTV MPEG4 STBs it's just a waste IMO. Along with these supposed 100 new HDTV channels, I've noticed "hidden" messages that they seem to indend on removing the MPEG2 HDTV feeds at about the same time. My suggestion is to only get the R5000 mod for Dish Network since it's available for their MPEG4 STBs.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

I think that anyone that buys an R5000 mod system for DirecTV is throwing money away. Since they don't offer R5000 for DirecTV MPEG4 STBs it's just a waste IMO. Along with these supposed 100 new HDTV channels, I've noticed "hidden" messages that they seem to indend on removing the MPEG2 HDTV feeds at about the same time. My suggestion is to only get the R5000 mod for Dish Network since it's available for their MPEG4 STBs.

Keep in mind, there is no MPEG4 R5000 for D* at this time, mainly, and primarily due to one reason: no significant MPEG4 content on D* to bother with a modification. If 100 HD nationals show up on D* at some point in the future, I'm going to bet a hefty sum of $$$ that you will see a R5000 mod for D* MPEG4 tuners at that time.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Keep in mind, there is no MPEG4 R5000 for D* at this time, mainly, and primarily due to one reason: no significant MPEG4 content on D* to bother with a modification. If 100 HD nationals show up on D* at some point in the future, I'm going to bet a hefty sum of $$$ that you will see a R5000 mod for D* MPEG4 tuners at that time.

Actually, I think it's because the HR20 hardware isn't so easy to work with from an R5000 solution perspective. The issue re: h.264 playback is really a sage one rather than a R5000 one - hopefully Sage will take advantage of purevideo HD's acceleration for H.264 and give us a good player that handles this well. H.264 is the future, even for cable.

I know the DirecTV folks rather well - they have worked out arrangements with the national channels to upgrade to HD. It may cost some more, but they intend to really use their new KA birds to differentiate on HD.

Cable may pick up the channels too, but my friends doing deals with Comcast and TW on HD content are finding they don't want to pay the programmers anything more for HD, something I suspect DirecTV has agreed to do. Cable has the bandwidth to handle them too, at least on modern systems if they clear off some of the bottom of the barrel analog stuff, or if you have 860 Mhz or above plant. They can get 3+ HD channels per 6 MHz of capacity. It's mostly a contract issue with cable, not network.

Thanks,
Mike

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Keep in mind, there is no MPEG4 R5000 for D* at this time, mainly, and primarily due to one reason: no significant MPEG4 content on D* to bother with a modification. If 100 HD nationals show up on D* at some point in the future, I'm going to bet a hefty sum of $$$ that you will see a R5000 mod for D* MPEG4 tuners at that time.

Actually when I was emailing the folks at NextComm they said that the reason was because the DirecTV MPEG4 hardware wasn't very R5000 friendly - not that it had anything to do with available content...

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Actually when I was emailing the folks at NextComm they said that the reason was because the DirecTV MPEG4 hardware wasn't very R5000 friendly - not that it had anything to do with available content...

I'm not sure that I am really supposed to say what the REAL reason is that there is no MPEG4 D* solution. Suffice it to say, it is mainly because they lack any national MPEG4 channels (no motivation to finish a mod on a receiver for people to get 4 HD locals per market). The receiver can probably be modified from initial inspection, but its going to have a serious downfall that the E* boxes dont have. Sorry, I'm not going into it any more than that. If Nextcom wants to publically state the issue then you'll all know what I know. Sorry.

[dbfresh23]

That just makes them stupid if that's the case. I'd have already bought at least 3 myself.