Talk about a rip off see official pricing for Vista upgrades

[AngelofDeth]

Linux is nice if you don't play games. Using a separate machine for games, or dual booting is such a pain, so once DX10 becomes common anyone wanting to play games will have to upgrade to Vista.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

Action Pack is intended for consultants and System Builders serving the small business community and the products included reflect that. We'll be getting Vista Business, not Vista Ultimate!

Technet Plus and Action Pack licenses are valid as long as you remain a subscriber.

According to the guy running the show for the Rockin Road Show, the action pack will contain a 10 user license of Ultimate. His words "We want our partners to have the best, so Ultimate is included". Now that may have changed, but they did specifically tell us that. (Checking the page, it does show Business, but I'm betting at least one copy of Ultimate will be included, like they did with MCE2005). I still need it for the Office licenses though .

As for qualification, I didn't have to do much of anything special to get qualified, just basically applied for it. Been a partner for a long time, so not sure if that has changed either .

As or the people saying windows is insecure, ALL OS'S are insecure, as long as a user sits at the keyboard, all it takes is one stupid click on the wrong thing, and you're screwed. We've had out linux boxes at work hacked more times than our Windows 2003 server (never been touched), and that's with keeping up updates at least once a week.

Linux folks need to just quit trying to sway the world into using it, let people make up their own minds, instead of bashing the 'competition' all the time. Both OS' have their place, and neither linux nor windows will fill the bill for everyone.

To the Crossover office, yeah, it works with Office XP/2000, , but last I checked it didnt' work with 2003 nor 2007 Office releases. Sure there's emulators for Games, but why go through the hassles of emulation, when you can just boot your OS and go (and don't tell me that Cedega is a load and go ordeal, I'm still a subscriber to it, and there are STILL problems with newer games). I used Linux almost exclusively for about a year, and just never could get my machine working quite the way I wanted, and the version changes were a pain to keep up with. There again, use what works. For me it's XP/Vista.

**EDIT** Looks like Mwave.com has Vista up for sale now. Can order it with 'Qualifying hardware' for the OEM copies. Only have Home basic & Business right now though.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by stevech

I must say, that despite my PC being very new (driver issues), Fedora core 6 linux installed easily with only one hitch: my new sound card hardware. Otherwise, it works correctly with my AMD dual core CPU, nVidia 6100 graphics, 10/100/1000 ethernet, SATA disks, USB2 disks, Windows Workgroup network shares, etc. Didn't try WiFi.

I've always been told that I'd have more issues with the bleeding-edge hardware than the older stuff. The only other issue I have w/ it now is it's hosting the majority of my shows. Just dropped an empty drive in it and SMB is a friggin overhead hog. Can take over 6-7 sec to delete a 2GB show where a local recording goes almost instantly. I get more skipping in recordings than w/ a local file too. Sux that my local machine has a "weak" arse PS since I have a free SATA port.

[squrl]

Try Ubuntu linux. Security is far better than windows and it has about anything you could wish for as far as apps go. 20 minutes to download the iso then 10 to burn it and 20 minutes from iso cd to being on the web and its all next to free. I suggest 6.1 edgy and it will run on a lot less power than windows. Also takes care of its own drivers which is a biiiggg plus in my book. several months and have yet to have a crash. There is even a partition backup in iso form so if you really blow something you can reload the system in 10 minutes.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by squrl

Try Ubuntu linux. Security is far better than windows and it has about anything you could wish for as far as apps go.

I tried latest Ubuntu on an older PC about 2-3 months ago. I had high hopes due to the hype. But it was very inferior to Xandros and Fedora, e.g., Windows shares/SMB auto-setup, printers, simple UI. Now with this new dual-core PC, Ubuntu does not use a Kernel new enough to run on my PC and if it did, I'd have the same complaints.

[jmiddleton]

According to the guy running the show for the Rockin Road Show, the action pack will contain a 10 user license of Ultimate

I hope you're correct because I want to install 64 bit and Sage doesn't like my VistaView tuner so I may have to use the Vista media center for a while until the driver situation sorts itself out but the email I got from Microsoft last month announcing the shipment definitely said Business.

I've been playing with Linux for about 10 years and each time I look at it I conclude that it is a fun toy for geeks but not ready for prime time - at least on the desktop. A month or so ago I installed Ubuntu in a virtual machine and the hoops I had to jump through to get VMware tools working leads me to believe that Linux is still not ready for the non technical user.

[doc]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

I've been playing with Linux for about 10 years and each time I look at it I conclude that it is a fun toy for geeks but not ready for prime time - at least on the desktop. A month or so ago I installed Ubuntu in a virtual machine and the hoops I had to jump through to get VMware tools working leads me to believe that Linux is still not ready for the non technical user.

I installed Ubunto onto my spare pc in about 45 mins, it was so easy, but thats when the headaches started.

It took me a day to get the latest amsn to install, and I don't know what it is about the interface in general but it just doesn't quite look right to me. It looks like someones just about got the stuff working, but its that last step missing. Google earth for example, just doesn't look like its finished.

I gave up trying to install yahoo messenger as it wanted some old dependancies.

Will try debian next, then maybe suse, but definately not buying Vista.

[hemicuda]

I'm running Slackware, but don't use the GUI; it's on a headless router. What I've seen of the KDE GUI it might be worth exploring. Did a full blown install from the ISO and was on the web about 5min after the install finished. It's only the 3rd n*x box I've set up. The biggest hassle for me is that once it's set up things run so smoothly that by the time I have to do any maintenance I've forgotten how things were configured originally. Post-Its are my friend.

[pat_smith1969]

Originally Posted by AngelofDeth

Umm. Do you mean two total installls, or two installs on different hardware? I really can't see them enforcing no re-installs on the same hardware, they had that ability with OEM XP (not sure what the license said), but you could always call MS if your key got disabled due to to many installs.

From the information i gathered it is two total installs from the OEM license. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Each time you have to install the OS you must call MS and get a new code, you get to do that twice.

This is how it is supposed to be with XP but MS decided to not enforce that rule, the word is that with Vista they will.

[jmiddleton]

Any Microsoft OEM product is "married" to the hardware it is originally installed on. Licenses are not transferable. You can reinstall it as often as you want on the same machine. You can upgrade memory, drives, video cards, etc ... which may require a manual reactivation over the phone. You can replace a defective motherboard with the same make and model but you cannot change the motherboard. That is considered a different computer and requires it's own license.

Microsoft recently tightened the restrictions on OEM software. A couple of quotes below:

"4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case."

"When you distribute an individual software license for a desktop operating system or application software, you must preinstall it on the fully assembled computer system’s hard drive using the OEM Preinstallation Kit ("OPK") provided in this package or otherwise made available by us. This preinstallation requirement does not apply to server software."

"15.1 You must not advertise, provide a separate price for, or otherwise market or distribute individual software licenses, or any part of them, as separate items from the fully assembled computer system as applicable."

If you purchase OEM software that isn't preinstalled on a new computer it is either pirate or sold in violation of the vendor's contract with Microsoft which could cost him his authorization. Caveat emptor.

[hemicuda]

with those rules about hardware changes I think I'll just not play the game. utterly ridiculous IM(not so)HO. that said, i'll stop fanning the flames on this thread.

[stevech]

Microsoft: "Without competition, there is no excellence"

[cummings66]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

Any Microsoft OEM product is "married" to the hardware it is originally installed on. Licenses are not transferable. You can reinstall it as often as you want on the same machine. You can upgrade memory, drives, video cards, etc ... which may require a manual reactivation over the phone. You can replace a defective motherboard with the same make and model but you cannot change the motherboard. That is considered a different computer and requires it's own license.

You say that is what they do, but I know first hand they will bend the rules because they did for me. I had a computer take a lightning hit and I had the issue of it was too old to get the same hardware to replace it with. I upgraded the entire machine to something entirely different and of course had to call Microsoft. They asked me, is this on 2 machines or 1. I said 1 machine and he said OK, here's your numbers and I was in business.

Maybe this person didn't know the rules, maybe he felt sorry for me. He did allow me to move it to another machine. My only complaint is that it's hard for me to understand those guys sometimes, I wish they would bring things back here so I can understand their "English".

[jmiddleton]

I know first hand they will bend the rules because they did for me

Microsoft is a "kinder and gentler" organization than their license agreements would lead you to believe and your experience is not unusual. If you fry a motherboard it is unlikely your local dealer will have the same model in stock. I had also transferred my OEM XP license to a second motherboard before purchasing my action pack subscription which gives me 10 licenses to play with. But Microsoft doesn't have to be nice. They can enforce the restrictions they put in their license agreements if they choose to do so. Sometimes it is prudent to assume the worst - that way your surprises are pleasant ones!

--------------------------- Breaking News! ---------------------------------

A new (and refreshing) take on the OEM Vista licensing issue. Apparently the person who breaks the shrink wrap is the person who is bound by the license agreement so your local computer store can sell you an OEM copy of Windows as long as it is sealed! This article also has some useful information on tolerances for reactivation and a claim that Vista will be more lenient about hardware upgrades than XP was.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2087792,00.asp

If you can live without the support incidents Microsoft bundles with their retail product this is definitely the way to go.

[Motofreak75]

I just wanted to share I ordered an full install OEM copy of Vista Ultimate for $250 CAN funds shipped for another week
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...ture=Microsoft


I just consider this another tool for testing

[steingra]

Here is a version of linux on a bootable CDROM. It seems to have very good recognition of hardware. You just download the iso and burn to the cdrom. Pop into cdrom drive in almost any PC > 200Mhz....and you can check out 100's of linux programs.

I havent used it now for over a year. But I found it to be a great way to see if Linux would run on any machine, without installing one thing on to hard drive.

I even used it to train some people how to use linux. Then when finished, we removed the cdrom from the drive, rebooted, and wham-o right back to the Windows operating system.

Give it a try you might like it. There are several other *bootable* linux versions that I tried, but this was one of the biggest and nicest ones as of 12/15 months ago anyway.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

[jmiddleton]

Knoppix belongs in every technicians toolkit. I've used it on several occasions to backup data from Windows machines that wouldn't boot but I think there are better distros for your regular desktop.

If my local market is any indication every computer store on the continent is probably selling OEM Vista to anyone willing to part with the price. No strings attached. Amazing the difference a simple clause like "the person who breaks the shrink wrap is the person bound by the license agreement" can make. Just remember that the person who breaks the shrink wrap is also the person who has to support the product. You have no recourse to Microsoft or the dealer who sold you the shrink wrapped product. That shouldn't be an issue for most readers of this forum but some bargain hunters will get a surprise because they are asked for their credit card numbers when they call for support.

[AngelofDeth]

I have never called MS for any Windows support. If it gets to the point i'd actually have to call MS for help, there solution would probably be to re-install anyway...