HDTV Firewire Support on The Mac

[guho]

karljayne: great you got this to work!! It should be easier than this. Mac OS X is not always easier to use than Windows ;-)

Now for a related issue. At the moment I am using a Mac Mini 1.83 Core2Duo as both firewire encoder and SageTV client. Even with the latest Mac beta version the full-screen 1920x1080 HDTV playback quality is much worse than the PC version of SageTV (even on the same mac mini with bootcamp running Vista). Given that Sage TV LLC worked so long on the new beta and still didn't get it right, I am afraid they never will.

What I am thinking of doing is moving the encoder to its own box, so I can have the mini permantly running SageTV client on Vista.

Here's the question. What is the cheapest low-power solution for running the firewire encoder? Several options:
- PowerMac G4 from ebay. Costs at least $75 incl. shipping and am not sure how much power it uses (say G4 500MHz single, 512Mbyte)
- Hackintosh on PC laptop. Takes lots of time to set up
- Another mac mini (ebay prices surprisingly high even for used G4 minis, forget about Intel-based minis)
- Perhaps PowerMac G3. Is it powerful enough? Does G3 use less or more power than G4?

Any suggestions welcome. Power important as this things runs 24x7 What hardware are all of you using for this?

[iconic]

Originally Posted by guho

Now for a related issue. At the moment I am using a Mac Mini 1.83 Core2Duo as both firewire encoder and SageTV client. Even with the latest Mac beta version the full-screen 1920x1080 HDTV playback quality is much worse than the PC version of SageTV (even on the same mac mini with bootcamp running Vista). Given that Sage TV LLC worked so long on the new beta and still didn't get it right, I am afraid they never will.

Video playback performance is being addressed now...

[guho]

Originally Posted by iconic

Video playback performance is being addressed now...

Great! I will give it another go before buying an additional mac to use as firewire encoder. In the meantime, I hope the development team takes advantage of the QuartzDebug tool, which comes with XCode. As SageTV plays back video, it shows the framerate. For SDTV I get a solid and expected 30/second. For HDTV 1080i or 720p, especially when enlarging the window, it goes down to 20/sec or less. All while CPU usage hovers at 50-60%, indicating lack of CPU power is not the issue.

[iconic]

Originally Posted by guho

All while CPU usage hovers at 50-60%, indicating lack of CPU power is not the issue.

No.... but memory bandwidth is an issue, especially when the GPU is trying to do millions of read/modify/write cycles each second to the same memory that the CPU is running from (the GMA-950 GPU in the minis does not use dedicated VRAM). It might be *capable* of pushing 10.9 GB/s transfer rates, but that's under hermetically sealed laboratory conditions, real world use will prove (and has proven) quite different.

[guho]

I just tried the new Mac beta and playback on my mini core2duo and it is mostly perfect. So much better than before. Still, there is one hiccup every 2 seconds on an HDTV signal with rolling ticker.

When I boot Windows on the same Mac Mini and run SageTV client/placeshifter, HDTV playback is flawless. So while memory bandwidth may be a limitation, it can be overcome.

Originally Posted by iconic

No.... but memory bandwidth is an issue, especially when the GPU is trying to do millions of read/modify/write cycles each second to the same memory that the CPU is running from (the GMA-950 GPU in the minis does not use dedicated VRAM). It might be *capable* of pushing 10.9 GB/s transfer rates, but that's under hermetically sealed laboratory conditions, real world use will prove (and has proven) quite different.

[iconic]

Originally Posted by guho

I just tried the new Mac beta and playback on my mini core2duo and it is mostly perfect. So much better than before. Still, there is one hiccup every 2 seconds on an HDTV signal with rolling ticker.

When I boot Windows on the same Mac Mini and run SageTV client/placeshifter, HDTV playback is flawless. So while memory bandwith may be a limitation, it can be overcome.

You are correct about that, and we are still fine tuning things

[ke4pym]

Hi everyone.

I picked up a SciAtl 4250HDC box yesterday. I've been able to get SageTV to see the box (as well as the FirewireNetwork encoder. But, I've been unable to get the two to play nicely.

When doing a channel scan, I see this error repeatedly:

Received command: AUTOINFOSCAN 44
Response: Error ' Unknown command 'AUTOINFOSCAN'

(The 44 changes as Sage increments the channel numbers.

I grabbed a copy of AVCVideoCap. I told it to capture from the device on a specific channel. The box ignored that channel command, but I did get a clean file (and verified it) from AVCBrowser.

Then, after the channel scan is complete, and I just try to watch live TV, I get this error:

Performing stat:/applicaions/sagetv/tuner0/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/214_Error
Response: Error 'Error stat /applications/sagetv/tuner0/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/214_error'

FWIW, a file in that folder called SA4200HDon1270016969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf got created this time.

My machine is a 2008 Mac Pro 10.5.2 with 4GB and plenty of disk space.

What am I missing?

config.txt:
portnumber=6969
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=10000
directoryprefixmap=|/applications/sagetv/tuner0
poweroffdelay=120000
device=0
maxrecordingbuffers=512

I can paste other stuff as necessary.

[guho]

If it is a local SageTV instead of a remote server, please omit the directoryprefixmap.

Also please do all the permissions changes described earlier in this thread by karljayne.

Not sure channel scan works, just manually select the channels you wish to pick up using the firewire encoder. It might work though, I just never tried it.

Originally Posted by ke4pym

Hi everyone.

I picked up a SciAtl 4250HDC box yesterday. I've been able to get SageTV to see the box (as well as the FirewireNetwork encoder. But, I've been unable to get the two to play nicely.

When doing a channel scan, I see this error repeatedly:

Received command: AUTOINFOSCAN 44
Response: Error ' Unknown command 'AUTOINFOSCAN'

(The 44 changes as Sage increments the channel numbers.

I grabbed a copy of AVCVideoCap. I told it to capture from the device on a specific channel. The box ignored that channel command, but I did get a clean file (and verified it) from AVCBrowser.

Then, after the channel scan is complete, and I just try to watch live TV, I get this error:

Performing stat:/applicaions/sagetv/tuner0/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/214_Error
Response: Error 'Error stat /applications/sagetv/tuner0/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/214_error'

FWIW, a file in that folder called SA4200HDon1270016969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf got created this time.

My machine is a 2008 Mac Pro 10.5.2 with 4GB and plenty of disk space.

What am I missing?

config.txt:
portnumber=6969
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=10000
directoryprefixmap=|/applications/sagetv/tuner0
poweroffdelay=120000
device=0
maxrecordingbuffers=512

I can paste other stuff as necessary.

[ke4pym]

Here's some more info.

I got it to bring up the default channel (14). But I had to turn the unit on first.

The video would play for a moment, then stop, audio would come up then stop then video would return. Really weird. Video was clean as a whistle when it played. Okay, now video on 14 is mostly stable. But if I do any other application work, it really gets jerky. I wouldn't expect that from my system with a pair of Seagate drives in RAID1.

Change the channel to 225 - nuttin (see below).

Now, if I change the channels, it will play for about 15 seconds and quit. Then come back for 15 seconds then quit. But I can't get it to switch channels to save its life.

Thanks for the reply guho.

I've completed the steps above as requested.

I'm getting a little further. I remapped the channels so I have 14 and 225.

When I start up Sage and tell it to watch live tv I see the network encoder go to work.

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_225_0512_1702-0.ts
Received command: START SA4200HD Digital TV Tuner|14|2421252388884|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/321_14_0512_1703-0.ts|Great
Response: OK

Then, the menu options go away in the Sage screen and nothing. I hit stop or play and it just says no signal.

So I change the channel.

Received command: STOP
Response: OK

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_14_0512_1703-0.ts
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SagteTV/TV/320_14_0512_1703-0.ts
Received command: START SA4200HD Digital TV Tuner|225|2421252477068|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_225_0512_1703-0.ts|Great
Response: OK

And again, nothing but black screen I see the files get created though.

[guho]

Sounds frustrating. For each of the created .ts files, see if vlc media player will play them. do they have nonzero file size? you could also be encountering encrypted channels.

Originally Posted by ke4pym

Here's some more info.

I got it to bring up the default channel (14). But I had to turn the unit on first.

The video would play for a moment, then stop, audio would come up then stop then video would return. Really weird. Video was clean as a whistle when it played. Okay, now video on 14 is mostly stable. But if I do any other application work, it really gets jerky. I wouldn't expect that from my system with a pair of Seagate drives in RAID1.

Change the channel to 225 - nuttin (see below).

Now, if I change the channels, it will play for about 15 seconds and quit. Then come back for 15 seconds then quit. But I can't get it to switch channels to save its life.

Thanks for the reply guho.

I've completed the steps above as requested.

I'm getting a little further. I remapped the channels so I have 14 and 225.

When I start up Sage and tell it to watch live tv I see the network encoder go to work.

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_225_0512_1702-0.ts
Received command: START SA4200HD Digital TV Tuner|14|2421252388884|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/321_14_0512_1703-0.ts|Great
Response: OK

Then, the menu options go away in the Sage screen and nothing. I hit stop or play and it just says no signal.

So I change the channel.

Received command: STOP
Response: OK

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_14_0512_1703-0.ts
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SagteTV/TV/320_14_0512_1703-0.ts
Received command: START SA4200HD Digital TV Tuner|225|2421252477068|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/320_225_0512_1703-0.ts|Great
Response: OK

And again, nothing but black screen I see the files get created though.

[karljayne]

I get the auto scan error too, I imagine this is because the channel change delay is set to 10 seconds and SageTV races through the channels when auto detecting, leading to a huge disconnect between the encoder and SageTV.

Another glitch I've noticed is SageTV doesn't appear to know how to handle 5C'd Copy Once flagged files, but the encoder will allow them to be written to disc. The result is although the encoder appears to working and video appears to be 'recording' there is no playback.

I manually check channel by channel for my lineup, and that takes time. Some of the channels in my lineup are 5C'd for Copy Once (most pay movie channels and History HD for whatever reason), I disable those.

[guho]

Originally Posted by iconic

You are correct about that, and we are still fine tuning things

Thanks Iconic. I did not see any differences yet going from Mac 6.4.2 to 6.4.3 placeshifter. Hope you're still focused on Mac full-screen hi-res playback quality, as there are lip sync issues with HD and occasional big hiccups every few seconds on my Mac Mini Core2Duo 1.83. Please let me know.

[ke4pym]

Okay, I've messed around with this 4200HDC box via firewire.

SageTV and the Network encoder were throwing me for some loops so I grabbed the AVC stuff from Apple.

I cannot change channels on the box via Sage+NENC or via AVC Browser.

However, I can use the AVC Capture and capture good files. It won't change the channels. AVCBrowser is the same way. I can't change the channels at all via firewire. I can do it all day long with the remote.

Using the AVCBrowser, and the VLC player, I can watch most channels. Encluding HDNet and HDNet Movies. However, anything High Def is just pixelated. Not sure what is going wrong with that.

I think I'm going to have to give up on this box. It half way works. But that's not good enough.

[guho]

Originally Posted by iconic

You are correct about that, and we are still fine tuning things

I noticed playback of 720p is not smooth in Mac Placeshifter latest beta. 1080i is very good. This is on my mac mini core2duo 1.83. To reproduce play a 720p with rolling ticker such as ESPN2 HD, and see how jerky it is full screen on 1920x1080.

[jerryhart]

I have a Motorola DCT 6416 STB and SageTV server running on my old cube. I installed the encoder according, I thought, to the instructions.

When I set up the sources, I see my STB and can set up the program guide, but don't seem able to change or view any channels. When I try to scan for channels, or try to set one up manually I get the following message:

Received command: BUFFER DCT-6416 Digital TV Tuner|5|16777216|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

When I try the autoscan, I get this:

Received command: AUTOSCAN -1
Response: Error 'Unknown command 'AUTOSCAN''

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Received command: STOP
Response: Error 'Not Recording'


Obviously I have done something wrong, but I cannot work out what. I am using my cube to run as a trial server, and will probably get a mini if I can get this to work. I would be grateful for any advice you guys can give me.

Thx

Edit: I forgot to add that my STB responds to channel changes and records great using AVCVideoCap.

Thanks again

[guho]

Seems like it does not handle the space in the encoder name well.

As an experiment, just try recording from a channel. So just enable some channels in the lineup that you know are not encrypted and try recording (timed record for a few minutes perhaps). This will result in START commands instead of BUFFER commands and they might work better.

Originally Posted by jerryhart

I have a Motorola DCT 6416 STB and SageTV server running on my old cube. I installed the encoder according, I thought, to the instructions.

When I set up the sources, I see my STB and can set up the program guide, but don't seem able to change or view any channels. When I try to scan for channels, or try to set one up manually I get the following message:

Received command: BUFFER DCT-6416 Digital TV Tuner|5|16777216|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

When I try the autoscan, I get this:

Received command: AUTOSCAN -1
Response: Error 'Unknown command 'AUTOSCAN''

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/DCT6416onlocalhost6969DigitalTVTuner-0.mpgbuf
Received command: STOP
Response: Error 'Not Recording'


Obviously I have done something wrong, but I cannot work out what. I am using my cube to run as a trial server, and will probably get a mini if I can get this to work. I would be grateful for any advice you guys can give me.

Thx

Edit: I forgot to add that my STB responds to channel changes and records great using AVCVideoCap.

Thanks again

[jerryhart]

Thanks very much for your answer and suggestions, but still no luck :-(

Not sure what you mean by the space in the encoder name. I don't see one.

I tried your suggestion of trying to record, but still no joy. I get a "no signal" message in the preview window for any channel I try, although the signal strength bar is full green, and I get green dots by each channel.

I got this message from the encoder when I tried to record:

Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|5|2441521679150|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/14492_5_0906_2113-0.ts|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

then lots of lines that say this:

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/14492_5_0906_2113-0.ts

but no files appear in the folder. I have set permissions so that all users can read/write to this folder.

I tried to upload the sage.properties file, but am unable to for some reason.

Am at a dead end right now and would really like to get this working.

[guho]

Please try again removing the "device=DCT-6416" line from the config file. You put DCT-6416 as the name, is this how it is reported using --list? It is somehow unable to open the connection to the device by name DCT-6416.

If you remove it it will just default to the first device (assuming you have 1 STB hooked up). Perhaps it will work then. This is how I ran it on my mac mini.

[jerryhart]

Thanks for getting back to me again.

This is what was in my config.txt

portnumber=6969
channelchangemethod=
channelchangedelay=
poweroffdelay=120000
device=0
maxrecordingbuffers=512

I removed the device line, and when I run the command line, I get this response back in terminal:

Last login: Sat Sep 6 21:26:08 on ttyp1
/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder.command; exit
Welcome to Darwin!
jerrys-cubes-power-mac-g4-cube:~ jerry_cu$ /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder.command; exit
SageTV Firewire Network Encoder
Copyright (c) 2007 Hugo Lyppens. All rights reserved.
This software is free for personal use only.
Notification controller DCT-6416
Starting SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder, listening for commands from SageTV.

This looks the same as I was getting before.

When I open SageTV client on my macbook, and try watching a channel, the STB changes channel now, which it wasn't doing with device=0 in the config.txt file. Still not visible on my macbook though, I get "no signal" on the macbook, and the following in terminal on my cube server:

Starting SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder, listening for commands from SageTV.
Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|5|2441649528010|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/GeorgeShrinks-SnowmansLand-70794-0.ts|Great
Notification deviceDCT-6416, message type: 3758096641
Response: Error 'Cannot open file '/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/GeorgeShrinks-SnowmansLand-70794-0.ts''

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/GeorgeShrinks-SnowmansLand-70794-0.ts

The last line keeps repeating, followed by:

Received command: STOP
Response: Error 'Not Recording'

when I stop trying watch the channel.

I tried doing a timed recording on the same channel. This time my STB did not change channel and I got the following message on my servers terminal:

Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|5|2441650202198|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Babar-RowingPains-70485-0.ts|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Babar-RowingPains-70485-0.ts

last line repeating....

Tried recording another channel, the same response:

Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|11|2441650586184|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/TheSimpsons-51368-0.ts|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/TheSimpsons-51368-0.ts

Any ideas?

[jerryhart]

It seems that sage will only change channel once without restarting it.

The first time I get this in terminal:

/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder.command; exit
Welcome to Darwin!
jerrys-cubes-power-mac-g4-cube:~ jerry_cu$ /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder.command; exit
SageTV Firewire Network Encoder
Copyright (c) 2007 Hugo Lyppens. All rights reserved.
This software is free for personal use only.
Notification controller DCT-6416
Starting SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder, listening for commands from SageTV.
Received command: VERSION
Response: 2.1

Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|15|2441652774980|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Tennis-USOpenMensFinal-59509-0.ts|Great
Notification deviceDCT-6416, message type: 3758096641
Response: Error 'Cannot open file '/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Tennis-USOpenMensFinal-59509-0.ts''

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Tennis-USOpenMensFinal-59509-0.ts

The second time around I get this message in terminal:

Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|16|2441653055230|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Babar-219008-0.ts|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'

Performing stat:/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Babar-219008-0.ts

Ch 15 and 16 are the only two I have enabled in my line up for the moment.



Received command: START DCT6416 Digital TV Tuner|16|2441653055230|/Users/Shared/SageTV/TV/Babar-219008-0.ts|Great
Response: Error 'Could not open device DCT-6416'