DigiGuide alternative to RT XMLTV

[rickgillyon]

Try to make sure you specify "/d14" in your XMLTVGUI grab, otherwise it may pick up unconfirmed shows a month in the future, and in this case the repeats are sometimes posted first. The importer seems to see this repeat and as it doesn't have a first run date, creates a first run date 1 month before. Then the first run is finalised, appears one week before the repeat, but is after the inferred first run date, so is also marked as a repeat...I think.

Best bet anyway, if they don't have descriptions, is to mark this program as not having episodes in the importer - then it will record all of them and you can delete the ones you don't want...I'm trialling using no repeat markers at all at the moment, waiting to see how it works out.

[dooferlad]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Try to make sure you specify "/d14" in your XMLTVGUI grab

Hi, I can't find that setting in the XMLTV GUI. Is that an option for the other importer?

Thanks!

[rickgillyon]

No, just put it on a command line, i.e. run it via a bat file:

"C:\Program Files\XMLTV GUI\XmltvGUI.exe" /cdigi /Grab /d14

You only need the /c<name> bit if you have multiple configurations in XMLTVGUI.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Try to make sure you specify "/d14" in your XMLTVGUI grab, otherwise it may pick up unconfirmed shows a month in the future, and in this case the repeats are sometimes posted first. The importer seems to see this repeat and as it doesn't have a first run date, creates a first run date 1 month before. Then the first run is finalised, appears one week before the repeat, but is after the inferred first run date, so is also marked as a repeat...I think.

Best bet anyway, if they don't have descriptions, is to mark this program as not having episodes in the importer - then it will record all of them and you can delete the ones you don't want...I'm trialling using no repeat markers at all at the moment, waiting to see how it works out.

I must admit the way repeats are worked out is VERY confusing to me.

Is there any way we can just say to Stephane's importer, look, just use the data from the XML file from Digiguide - so if DG say its a repeat it is, otherwise its first run? (or is that asking for more trouble because DG is not accurate?)

[dooferlad]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

No, just put it on a command line, i.e. run it via a bat file:

"C:\Program Files\XMLTV GUI\XmltvGUI.exe" /cdigi /Grab /d14

You only need the /c<name> bit if you have multiple configurations in XMLTVGUI.

Thanks. Actually you can specify command line arguments in StephaneM's importer and save yourself the trouble of writing the bat.

[dooferlad]

Originally Posted by starfire

I must admit the way repeats are worked out is VERY confusing to me.

Is there any way we can just say to Stephane's importer, look, just use the data from the XML file from Digiguide - so if DG say its a repeat it is, otherwise its first run? (or is that asking for more trouble because DG is not accurate?)

First run / rerun are calculated from your point of view in Sage, i.e. if you haven't recorded and watched it before then it is a first run. THe options in the importer are just to do with detecting the same show twice. The middle option is generally fine with Digiguide (at least it is for me so far) because they tend to have the correct episode names and season information in there every time (which I think are combined) and they normally keep the same show description.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by dooferlad

Thanks. Actually you can specify command line arguments in StephaneM's importer and save yourself the trouble of writing the bat.

Not if your Digiguide and extract process are on a different machine to the importer, you can't...

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by starfire

Is there any way we can just say to Stephane's importer, look, just use the data from the XML file from Digiguide - so if DG say its a repeat it is, otherwise its first run? (or is that asking for more trouble because DG is not accurate?)

I asked this myself. Unfortunately it goes against the basic design of the importer, so can't be done...

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by dooferlad

First run / rerun are calculated from your point of view in Sage, i.e. if you haven't recorded and watched it before then it is a first run. THe options in the importer are just to do with detecting the same show twice.

Some of your assumptions are not borne out by my experience: if something is marked as a Rerun by the importer, and my favourite is marked as First Runs only it will not be recorded whether I have recorded it before or not - I'd need to mark it as first and reruns. Also, the importer does detect the same show reasonably well, but it is also about detecting repeats, and will not always use Repeat flags well - but the way it detects multiple showings of the same ep is far better than any alternative.

[StephaneM]

I asked this myself. Unfortunately it goes against the basic design of the importer, so can't be done...

Actually this is what the Importer is doing: if marked as repeat it will assume the show is a repeat and will either use the date given / found the original air date in history / take a date minus 30 days. If the show is not marked as repeat, the Importer assume it is a first run, unless it can find a previous airing date in its history.

The same is true for first run: if the show is marked as a first run, the Importer assume it is a first run unless it can find a previous airing date in its history.

What's make the strength of the Importer is its history, but it is also its weakness: if any bogus data corrupt the history (for instance wrong ep.numbers), the bogus data will persist.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Actually this is what the Importer is doing:

I think you may have misunderstood what Starfire was asking - well, either you have or I have.
I think he was asking for the importer to ignore it's history, not even use a history for FR/RR, and just follow the data.

Also I realise that you say if the importer finds a FR it will assume it is FR unless it finds an airing in the history - I think this is exactly what was being asked, can it *not* do this. I'm not sure that it's a good idea, the history works well for flagging duplicates, but it would stop some of the "false repeats" we see.

I'm still waiting to see how turning off all rerun flagging will work.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

I think you may have misunderstood what Starfire was asking - well, either you have or I have.
I think he was asking for the importer to ignore it's history, not even use a history for FR/RR, and just follow the data.

Also I realise that you say if the importer finds a FR it will assume it is FR unless it finds an airing in the history - I think this is exactly what was being asked, can it *not* do this.

Correct, is there a flag or setting (and if not can you add one?) I can enable for the importer to ignore all its history and just mark every program as a FR unless there is a repeat flag from Digiuide in the data?

ie. to completely rely on Diguide for repeat/FR settings?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

Correct, is there a flag or setting (and if not can you add one?) I can enable for the importer to ignore all its history and just mark every program as a FR unless there is a repeat flag from Digiuide in the data?

You wouldn't want to do this (the Importer wasn't using its history for original air date back in 2006 and it was a major improvment). If the Importer wasn't maintaining a coherent history, bad data would update/override good data all the time.

For instance you import 14 days of data, Program A is first run on week 1, and become rerun on week 2 => last input win, Program A will be repeat on week 1 and 2. That's because Program A is unique (and must be) in the programs database.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

For instance you import 14 days of data, Program A is first run on week 1, and become rerun on week 2 => last input win, Program A will be repeat on week 1 and 2. That's because Program A is unique (and must be) in the programs database.

This is obviously where I know nothing about how about Sage works internally

Can't you make all programs continuously unique and then assign repeat or first run as per the Digiguide xml data?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

Can't you make all programs continuously unique and then assign repeat or first run as per the Digiguide xml data?

You can do this if you want, this is one of the detection methods you can select "episode title or air date". It will work for episodes without ep.title/numbers. Though, you'll lose all benefits from using the XMLTV Importer in the first place.

You really want to have an EPG where episodes are uniques with multiple airings (repeats) and don't want to have an EPG with no repeats at all (that is where all programs are unique => as a consequence a recording jobs for a series will record every episodes even the ones you already watched before)

I personally don't trust first run/re run indication of the program guide I use to build my XMLTV data (and I don't use them). I better rely on the "watched" status I set within SageTV and the first run / re run indication set by the Importer.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

You can do this if you want, this is one of the detection methods you can select "episode title or air date". It will work for episodes without ep.title/numbers. Though, you'll lose all benefits from using the XMLTV Importer in the first place.

OK, so if I choose the above detection method then FR/repeat will be set (for shows without ep.title/numbers) based purely on the Digiguide XML data?

[rickgillyon]

OK, here's a new one: Horizon on BBC1 last week and this week, sub-title to both is "How Mad Are You?", different descriptions. Being the BBC, there is absolutely no meaningful episode numbering - flagship documentary show on the prime BBC channel, why on earth would the data be good?

Anyway, same show title, same sub-title, different descriptions: the importer sees them as the same show, i.e. tonight's is a re-showing of last weeks. Is this expected or does it mean that they also had the same description at some point in the past?

Thanks!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

OK, so if I choose the above detection method then FR/repeat will be set (for shows without ep.title/numbers) based purely on the Digiguide XML data?

Yes

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Anyway, same show title, same sub-title, different descriptions: the importer sees them as the same show, i.e. tonight's is a re-showing of last weeks. Is this expected or does it mean that they also had the same description at some point in the past?

The description is not used when the ep.title / numbers are given.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

The description is not used when the ep.title / numbers are given.

You didn't read it all, did you? Can't blame you with the number of questions at the moment. It was no numbers, same title and sub-title and different description. Thanks!