DigiGuide alternative to RT XMLTV

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

You didn't read it all, did you? Can't blame you with the number of questions at the moment. It was no numbers, same title and sub-title and different description. Thanks!

I read carefully, but I may not always understand .

This time the answer was appropriate: the description is not used when there is an ep.title (sub-title node) or ep.numbers (the description is also not used for movies).

[rickgillyon]

Right, I assumed by Ep Title you meant the show's title not sub-title, but I see where you're coming from - sub-title is the Ep's title, main title is the Show's title. This is how I thought it would work (matching on sub-title), the blame is with the BBC for providing useless data, no ep numbers, and no separation of the Parts in the sub-title. Considering they seem to make an effort to provide episode numbers for endless repeats of Two Pints and other crud on BBC3, you'd think they'd put more effort into the data on their flagship channel.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Yes

Thanks, I'll give this a bash

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

You can do this if you want, this is one of the detection methods you can select "episode title or air date". It will work for episodes without ep.title/numbers. Though, you'll lose all benefits from using the XMLTV Importer in the first place.

You really want to have an EPG where episodes are uniques with multiple airings (repeats) and don't want to have an EPG with no repeats at all (that is where all programs are unique => as a consequence a recording jobs for a series will record every episodes even the ones you already watched before)

I personally don't trust first run/re run indication of the program guide I use to build my XMLTV data (and I don't use them). I better rely on the "watched" status I set within SageTV and the first run / re run indication set by the Importer.

OK, so within the importer I've selected "Based on episode title or air date" and its been running like this for 2 imports. I have not ticked the option for shows with no original air date are reruns.

But I'm still only getting a few programs marked as first run, most are still repeat.

For example the BBC News at 10 tonight (which is never repeated as its new news every night!) looks like this:-

<programme
channel = "1"
channel2 = "9"
start = "20081121220000 +0000"
stop = "20081121222500 +0000">
<title>BBC News at Ten</title>
<desc>The latest national and international news, with reports from BBC correspondents around the world.</desc>
<category>News</category>
<length units = "minutes">25</length>
<sub-title/>
<audio>
<stereo>Stereo</stereo>
</audio>
<video>
<aspect>16:9</aspect>
</video>
<subtitles type = "teletext"/>
<credits/>
</programme>

so why doesn't it show as first run, there is no repeat flag I can see?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

why doesn't it show as first run, there is no repeat flag I can see?

For me this show should have an EPGID that begin with "SH", so I guess the Importer has correctly assigned a "SH" prefix to this show and for these "SH" shows, the Importer remove all first run/re run information so that they can be all recorded.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

For me this show should have an EPGID that begin with "SH", so I guess the Importer has correctly assigned a "SH" prefix to this show and for these "SH" shows, the Importer remove all first run/re run information so that they can be all recorded.

So this is an issue with Sage then?

Sorry but I'm a but confused

I just want to trust DigiGuide data, nothing else. If DigiGuide does not mark it as previously shown/repeat and its not part of a series I would like it marked as first run - how can I achieve this?

Thanks

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

I just want to trust DigiGuide data, nothing else. If DigiGuide does not mark it as previously shown/repeat and its not part of a series I would like it marked as first run - how can I achieve this?

If the show is having a "SH" EPGID, you'll have to tell the Importer to force it to detect as a series, you have two ways to achieve this:

* with the categories editor: use the "shows of this category are like series" option
* with the rules editor (First Run & Rerun Optimization): use the "This show does have first run..." option (you don't need to specify first run time range)

[starfire]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

If the show is having a "SH" EPGID, you'll have to tell the Importer to force it to detect as a series, you have two ways to achieve this:

* with the categories editor: use the "shows of this category are like series" option
* with the rules editor (First Run & Rerun Optimization): use the "This show does have first run..." option (you don't need to specify first run time range)

Sorry but how do I know if a show is having a "SH" EPGID ? Is there a definition of this and other terms somewhere so I can improve my knowledge?

Thanks

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

Sorry but how do I know if a show is having a "SH" EPGID ? Is there a definition of this and other terms somewhere so I can improve my knowledge?

In the SageTV Program Guide, select "View Program Information", you'll find a line "ShowID" followed by the EPGID.

With the Importer the EPGID begins with:

* SH: for "generic" programs, that is program that doesn't have episodes and where all airing are somehow first runs (typically daily shows / news / games etc...)

* EP: for series, that is programs that does have episodes

* MV: for movies

Regards,
Stéphane.

[starfire]

I see, thanks Stephane

Are the SH, EP & MV just tags that your importer itself uses to make programmes unique or does Sage also internally know about these special values so it can record series for example?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

Are the SH, EP & MV just tags that your importer itself uses to make programmes unique or does Sage also internally know about these special values so it can record series for example?

SageTV knows about these prefix and react differently for each of them.

[rickgillyon]

Typically, a program like News At Ten wouldn't be considered to have FR or RR, so if you have a Favourite for that set it to FR & RR.

[starfire]

I just picked it as a quick example after my previous postings.

The issue is quite a few shows like Top Gear, The Gadget Show, Match of the Day have a fresh version every week but also repeats and unfortunately Sage seems to just mark them all as Repeat for me - but when I look at the Digiguide xml it does have the correct repeat markings where appropriate, so I find it frustrating that I cannot get this information *easily* into Sage.

What I'm saying is I'm happy to rely on Digiguide data for FR or RR but it seems there is no easy way of getting this into Sage without using the methods that Stephane posted in #227.

Perhaps I should try a different importer but I like the simple setup with Stephane's.

[rickgillyon]

Depending on how far the lookahead is that you have on Digiguide, it may be at least two weeks before you see the effects of your change, as repeat / first run dates will already exist for shows already imported. How does it look for shows at the very end of the two-week range?

[starfire]

Ah OK, didn't know that the existing imported data would not be updated.

Looking at settings.xml in the SageTV XML Importer folder gives me a modification date of 21/11 so that would be when I changed the setting.

I've ran TV searches on the mentioned programmes (via Placeshifter) but they are all marked as Repeat so far, perhaps I need to give it longer though...

[rickgillyon]

Stephane may correct me anyway...

But I think that for a specific episode of, for example, Top Gear, given that the BBC are bloody hopeless and it won't have Episode numbering, the Importer will differentiate on description. When it comes across a new episode it hasn't seen, it will decide if FR or RR - if marked as repeat, it will assume a first-run date 1 month ago. However, as the repeats on BBC2 and BBC3 are later, so long as it processes BBC2 before BBC3, and so long as those repeats are not appearing in the schedule before the FR, it should work anyway. Sometimes Sunday nights are finalised very late, and BBC3 data is far better then BBC2, so it might be that the repeats are appearing before the FR, which will cause the problem.

Also, perhaps if your BBC3 appears in the channel list before BBC2, it might process those first? Stephane can be more specific, I'm sure.

I suppose I should do some work...

[starfire]

I let you get on with your work yesterday :-)

Guess your post just confirms my point, that I feel its way too complicated (for me) for working out FR or RR.

Perhaps Stephane can add something in for someone like me who wants to rely purely on Digiguide data and not care about SH or EP (if possible).

Typically I set my season passes to FR on one channel only.

I don't know whether you have ever used a Tivo but that was awesome at working all this stuff out, and if it couldn't record a FR for you (becuase say the tuner was in use) it would automatically record the RR.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by starfire

and if it couldn't record a FR for you (becuase say the tuner was in use) it would automatically record the RR.

Dont quote me on this but I believe Sage does this as well, maybe not for people using xmltv as their quide though.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by starfire

Guess your post just confirms my point, that I feel its way too complicated (for me) for working out FR or RR.

FR will only work well with series with ep.title or numbers. For other shows not so, that's why there is a "SH" prefix => for those shows all episodes can have the same EPGID and still be all recorded. That is impossible to do with the other ID species.

Usually people complain because the Importer cannot create different EPGID for two different shows (because guide data contain nothing to tell them apart), when this is the case the Importer has to create a "SH" EPGID. With a "SH" EPGID, FR / RR doesn't mean anything, that's why the Importer drops this information.

Perhaps Stephane can add something in for someone like me who wants to rely purely on Digiguide data and not care about SH or EP (if possible).

As I said, the feature you want is already in the Importer (this is the stock behavior). The effect you are seeing on your guide data is because the guide data is not good enough. There is nothing you can do about it except following my advices (though they can create more problems than you had in the first place).

Typically I set my season passes to FR on one channel only.I don't know whether you have ever used a Tivo but that was awesome at working all this stuff out, and if it couldn't record a FR for you (becuase say the tuner was in use) it would automatically record the RR.

I do it too: I choose to record FR (not even specifying a channel), and SageTV automatically record the FR (a FR stays a FR during a week approx) when it is convenient to do so and even in HD if available.

However I only record series or movies. Both having ep.title / numbers (part number only for movies) and I don't record show like daily show / news / games.

Typically for those shows you don't have enough guide data to differenciate each episode of the serie they constitue, that's the problem. When it is so, FR / RR is doomed period.

Your only solutions when this is the case:

* Create an advanced recording schedule : with a time range and a channel
* Use the advanced first run rules of the Importer to create the missing information for the show (that is when the FR are usually aired for the show)

Also checking your recording schedule every three days is not a bad idea. If you use some "broad" recording rules all the work you have to do is to set show as watched to tell SageTV not to record them.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

FR will only work well with series with ep.title or numbers.

Is this really true? Seems to me that it works reasonably well on Descriptions too, e.g. Top Gear as suggested by Starfire, never ep numbers but it seems to flag okay for me. I think the trick for me was to go into the categories editor and make sure that the appropriate category was ticked as "like series" - it defaulted to not being so IIRC. So Top Gear (Motoring) and Gadget Show (Technology) may just need their categories tweaked. Although it was a while ago when I did it...