DigiGuide alternative to RT XMLTV

[jaminben]

Mine does the same as yours rickgillyon.

On another note do you have "No data" for channels which are not broadcasting at a specific time? i.e BBC 3 @ 3.00pm or CBBC @ 21.00pm. I have already posted & StephaneM did reply but I thought I'd ask if you also had this. The only channel which displays correctly when no programmes are broadcasting is Nuts TV.

Its not problem or error but just would look better if it showed when the channel would start again.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

very few first runs in my epg today. "Pacific Abyss" on BBC1 tonight, for example, is not showing as FR, doesn't show an original air date, can't have a history as I only just installed...doesn't have episode details either.

This is another problem. The Importer will works best with Movies and Series. By default all shows that cannot be seen as movies or series will get a "SH" prefix for their EPGID. For this kind of show (I call them "Generics") first run / re-run information is dropped completely.

This is because many XMLTV files doesn't carry episode tiltle or even description needed to create a different EPGID for each show. As a consequence if a "SH" prefix wasn't used (but instead a "EP" prefix) you could only record one of the airing. The "SH" prefix guarantee that you can record all episodes.

So how can a show be seen as a series:

* it should have an episode title or number
* or it should have a category that classify it a series (that is the "Serie" top level category available in the Importer)
* or it should have a category that you choose to behave like a series (in the category editor)

Or you can create a rule for the show you want absolutely to have first run / re-run status. The rules can be created in the "First Run & Rerun Optimization" menu :

* Click "Add a new rule"
* Type a keyword for searching the show, for instance type "Abyss"
* Select "Pacific Abyss" in the list, click on the "Next >" button
* Select "This show does have first run" (you don't have to specify the first run range)
* Click on the "Ok" button

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by jaminben

On another note do you have "No data" for channels which are not broadcasting at a specific time?

Yes, RT also did this. I think you only get the broadcast times if the original listing has a dummy program specified with that title.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

So how can a show be seen as a series:
* it should have an episode title or number
* or it should have a category that classify it a series (that is the "Serie" top level category available in the Importer)
* or it should have a category that you choose to behave like a series (in the category editor)

Thanks for the explanation, it did get a SH. For me, aside from News, they should all pretty much appear like series, and coming from digiguide they all have descriptions. So I'll have a hack at the categories and see if things improve...

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

So I'll have a hack at the categories and see if things improve...

I'll also make a little change: for shows that does have a first run indication (that is a "new" XMLTV node), I'll make sure that they will get a "EP" prefix (I'll test this to see if this is a workable solution, that is you are able to record all episodes if you want to)

[rickgillyon]

Sounds good, thanks...

[rickgillyon]

Just been having another look at this, and there may be another small problem with the import routine (which is generally excellent btw, I don't mean to be critical!). Family Guy tonight on BBC3 has this XML:

    <programme
        channel = "106"
        channel2 = "6"
        start = "20080826230000 +0000"
        stop = "20080826232500 +0000">
        <title>Family Guy</title>
        <desc>Animated comedy series about family life. The Griffins, forced into the witness protection programme, move to a backwoods Southern town.</desc>
        <category>Animation</category>
        <length units = "minutes">25</length>
        <episode-num system = "xmltv_ns">2.11.</episode-num>
        <sub-title>To Live and Die in Dixie</sub-title>
        <audio>
            <stereo>Stereo</stereo>
        </audio>
        <previously-shown/>
        <video>
            <aspect>16:9</aspect>
        </video>
        <subtitles type = "teletext"/>
        <date>2001</date>
        <star-rating>
            <value>4/5</value>
        </star-rating>
        <credits>
            <director>Dan Povenmire</director>
            <actor>Seth MacFarlane</actor>
            <actor>Alex Borstein</actor>
            <actor>Seth Green</actor>
            <actor>Brian Dunkleman</actor>
            <actor>Mila Kunis</actor>
            <actor>Dakota Fanning</actor>
        </credits>
    </programme>

However, it produces this output in Sage:

Family Guy
Episode: To Live and Die in Dixie - S 3 - Ep 12
Airing: 26-Aug-2008 23:00 - 23:25 
Duration: 25 m
Channel: 106-BBC3
Description: Animated comedy series about family life. The Griffins, forced into the witness protection programme, move to a backwoods Southern town.
Category: Children - Rerun - 2001
Original Air Date: Friday, 25 July 2008
Stereo
16:9, Stereo
Show ID: EP0016740035
Starring: Seth MacFarlane [imdb], Alex Borstein [imdb], Seth Green [imdb], Brian Dunkleman [imdb], Mila Kunis [imdb], Dakota Fanning [imdb] 
Director: Dan Povenmire [imdb]

This Original Air Date seems to crop up in a lot of listings when it's not in the XML. Is it just a variable not getting re-initialised somewhere, or is there another explanation for it?

This show should be classed as a re-run BTW, has the previously-shown tag, but there are others showing as re-run probably because of this when they should be first runs. Holby City tonight has no previously-shown tag at all, but still shows "Original Air Date: Friday, 25 July 2008" in Sage.

Thanks!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

This Original Air Date seems to crop up in a lot of listings when it's not in the XML. Is it just a variable not getting re-initialised somewhere, or is there another explanation for it?

Yup, shows without original air date (but having the previously-shown node) get by default an original air data that is 30 days before current airing date (this way SageTV will see it as a rerun)

Also, I noticed that the XMLTV returned by the Digiguide grabber use the "new" node. I don't know if this is intentionnal or not, but the Importer doesn't handle the "new" node because it only means that a show is a new show as a whole (and this apply only to the first episode). So if "new" was used to indicate that the show is a first-run, then the "premiere" node should be used.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Yup, shows without original air date (but having the previously-shown node) get by default an original air data that is 30 days before current airing date (this way SageTV will see it as a rerun)

Okay, I see that, but my Holby City example? That got an Original Air Date with no previously-shown and shows as a rerun:

  <programme
    channel = "101"
    channel2 = "1"
    start = "20080826200000 +0000"
    stop = "20080826210000 +0000">
    <title>Holby City</title>
    <desc>It's the day of the interview for the director of surgery position. Ric is still confident that the position is his, but he faces some tough competition from Michael. Michael approaches Rev Steve Randall, a millionaire who he hopes will pay for the separation of the Tan twins. Daisha's cannot afford to pay for the illegal termination and she is running out of options. Michael later shows Ric a body to identify, but some devastating news turns his world upside down.</desc>
    <category>Drama</category>
    <length units = "minutes">60</length>
    <episode-num system = "xmltv_ns">8.46.</episode-num>
    <sub-title>Hope, Faith and Charity</sub-title>
    <audio>
      <stereo>Stereo</stereo>
    </audio>
    <video>
      <aspect>16:9</aspect>
    </video>
    <subtitles type = "teletext"/>
    <subtitles type = "onscreen"/>
    <star-rating>
      <value>3/5</value>
    </star-rating>
    <credits>
      <actor>Hari Dhillon</actor>
      <actor>Rebecca Grant</actor>
      <actor>Robert Powell</actor>
      <actor>Hugh Quarshie</actor>
      <actor>Sharon D. Clarke</actor>
      <actor>Patsy Kensit</actor>
    </credits>
  </programme>

I would have expected it to assume this is a first run? It got a default Original Air Date too...

Holby City
Episode: Hope, Faith and Charity - S 9 - Ep 47
Aired: 26-Aug-2008 20:00 - 21:00 
Duration: 60 m
Channel: 101-BBC1

Description: It's the day of the interview for the director of surgery position. Ric is still confident that the position is his, but he faces some tough competition from Michael. Michael approaches Rev Steve Randall, a millionaire who he hopes will pay for the separation of the Tan twins. Daisha's cannot afford to pay for the illegal termination and she is running out of options. Michael later shows Ric a body to identify, but some devastating news turns his world upside down.
Category: Drama - Rerun
Original Air Date: Friday, 25 July 2008
Stereo
16:9, Stereo
Show ID: EP0055760001
Starring: Hari Dhillon [imdb], Rebecca Grant [imdb], Robert Powell [imdb], Hugh Quarshie [imdb], Sharon D. Clarke [imdb], Patsy Kensit [imdb]

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Okay, I see that, but my Holby City example? That got an Original Air Date with no previously-shown and shows as a rerun

This is a side effect of the Importer recollection features: given an episode title, it can find an episode number if one was given in the past. In your case two episodes of the same series were having the same ep.title but a different number, the first one was a re-run, the following a first-run, it inherited the original air date of the first upon recollection. I'll see if I can improve this.

[rickgillyon]

Thanks!

[rickgillyon]

I must say I'm disappointed in the Digiguide data all over. So many missing Ep numbers and lack of previously-shown tags is hopeless. All the CSIs and Criminal Minds on Living come out as first runs because they aren't marked as previously-shown. Aaargh...

Anyway, another "Rerun" that puzzles me, Sunday night "Fiona's Story" (which looks awful!) is coming out as a Rerun, can't see why:

  <programme
    channel = "101"
    channel2 = "1"
    start = "20080831210000 +0000"
    stop = "20080831223000 +0000">
    <title>Fiona's Story</title>
    <desc>One-off drama. A woman fights to hold her family together after her husband is accused of downloading images of child sexual abuse from the internet. Although she knew her marriage was not perfect, she now has to face the terrifying possibility that her three young children may not be safe with their own father and that the man she loved is guilty of a terrible crime.</desc>
    <category>Drama</category>
    <length units = "minutes">90</length>
    <sub-title/>
    <audio>
      <stereo>Stereo</stereo>
    </audio>
    <video>
      <aspect>16:9</aspect>
    </video>
    <subtitles type = "teletext"/>
    <subtitles type = "onscreen"/>
    <credits>
      <actor>Gina McKee</actor>
      <actor>Jeremy Northam</actor>
      <actor>Jimi Mistry</actor>
      <actor>Amanda Root</actor>
      <actor>Elisabeth Dermot-Walsh</actor>
      <actor>Nicholas Farrell</actor>
    </credits>
  </programme>

Any ideas? No episode data (one-off), no previously-shown, not in my history. Does the Importer bring a history from elsewhere when you install it?

Thanks!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Anyway, another "Rerun" that puzzles me, Sunday night "Fiona's Story" (which looks awful!) is coming out as a Rerun, can't see why

That's because the same program is marked as previously-shown (without date) a week after.

There is always a confusion between first-run / re-run / repeat. This is the case here: the repeats of a first-run are also first-run (at least when repeat are aired within one month of the first airing).

The show shouldn't have been flagged as previously-shown. Especially if in Digiguide the original information that is translated into "previously-shown", means "repeat".

[rickgillyon]

I guess that means that in Digiguide, they do mark the repeat-within-a-month as a repeat - I've just checked, and it is. It seems that it's not safe, in terms of Digiguide, to follow this rule, i.e. future repeats should not influence earlier shows to be repeats, however close. Is it possible to force this in any way?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

future repeats should not influence earlier shows to be repeats, however close. Is it possible to force this in any way?

In the Importer no. A show is unique; if in the same import task a show is flagged as a re-run, it automatically update all instances of the show. In this case, this is the original air date that is updated, the Importer only allow an update of this date if the updated date is older (you wouldn't want a re-run to become a first-run)

If Digiguide is showing repeats in the guide (and not re-run), then the best thing to do is that the Digiguide grabber should not export this information (or should also include the date of the first airing)

I'll try to find a way to gather the (real/supposed) original air date (instead of setting it to -30 days if not given), but I doubt I will be able to (I minimize lookup a lot for the import to be fast, any serious lookup decrease import time very very much)

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

(you wouldn't want a re-run to become a first-run)

Actually, I'd prefer some reruns marked as first-runs rather than vice-versa. I can delete extra recordings or mark them watched, but currently because some first runs are marked as reruns I have to record everything anyway...I'd probably prefer an advanced option where I told the software to just look at each individual listing, and mark it as rerun only if it has previously-shown, rather than do all the complex lookups etc. I realise this may not fit into your plans for the software!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Actually, I'd prefer some reruns marked as first-runs rather than vice-versa.

The whole point of the Importer is to do the exact opposite, that's why it keeps a history: for saving original air date and keep records of used EPGID.

I'd probably prefer an advanced option where I told the software to just look at each individual listing, and mark it as rerun only if it has previously-shown, rather than do all the complex lookups etc.

I can't do this. Even though in XMLTV each airing is an individual record, in the Importer and SageTV, you have one Program "object" (that carries program information such as title / ep.title / description / original air date) and Episodes "objects" (on ep. object is an airing: start / stop / channel / HD). So the Importer must collate all info on the show into one single record.

Anyway, I fixed this issue, the Importer will retreive the correct original air date in its lookup table when the XMLTV file doesn't give any date. This will be available in the next version.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Anyway, I fixed this issue, the Importer will retreive the correct original air date in its lookup table when the XMLTV file doesn't give any date. This will be available in the next version.

Thanks! Does this mean that it will sort the "repeat within a month" issue or not? I thought I had a solution, the Birty grabber has an option to "mark non-reruns as premieres" - this results, in the previous example, with the first airing having a tag:

<premiere>Not a repeat</premiere>

, and the second having previously-shown. However, the importer still marks the first as a rerun, obviously decides to ignore the premiere tag in favour of the repeat tag...

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Thanks! Does this mean that it will sort the "repeat within a month" issue or not?

Yes.

I thought I had a solution, the Birty grabber has an option to "mark non-reruns as premieres".../...However, the importer still marks the first as a rerun, obviously decides to ignore the premiere tag in favour of the repeat tag...

It doesn't ignore the "premiere" tag, it just override it with new information. This will not happen in the upcoming version, because as no date is given for "previously-shown" the importer will lookup the original air date in its history and this will be the date of the first apperance of the show (it doesn't matter if it has a "premiere" tag or not by the way).

[Whitey]

I've just noticed that in digiguide programmes in HD on ITV HD are marked as "High Definition on Freesat". Would it be possible that this could be flagged in sage as HD?

Thanks

Whitey