DVBViewer Recorder: Network encoder

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Try to pause the show for a minute or so when it starts stuttering, are you able to recover normal playback after a pause?

If this is the case, then you might want to play with these properties in the sage.properties (or the client one) file :

* videoframe/network_encoding_to_playback_delay (default is 1500)
* videoframe/time_behind_live_to_disable_skip_forward ( default is 4000)

I know for a fact that for me to have reliable subtitles extraction from the live recording (so inside the DVBViewer Recorder process) I must always stop the parsing of the recorded file when there are less than 2 MB of bytes left for me to read. Basically this means that (in my tests for MPEG2 SD) the last two MB of the file do not always contains valid video / audio content (when I was not doing this, I was having error in the TS or subtitles extraction was stopping early).

The same thing may happens when viewing the live stream => the decoder attempt to decode information that it shouldn't yet (because DVBViewer has only written dumb bytes into the file to reduce fragmentation on the HDD)

Regards,
Stéphane.

Pausing does bring it back for while but not long. I've tried altering those settings and it doesn't seem to change anything. What is starnge is that I received my HD-100 today and HD channels are perfect! On the server the cpu hardly registers any useage on the recoding service.

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Pausing does bring it back for while but not long.

How long have you paused?

I've tried altering those settings and it doesn't seem to change anything. What is starnge is that I received my HD-100 today and HD channels are perfect! On the server the cpu hardly registers any useage on the recoding service.

Then I don't know, the only facts we can get out of this is:

* The recording in progress is good enough to be played back "live" by the extender

* live playback on the client is stuttering

* so it's either server->client or the client that is having a problem

So I would supect :

* Implicit buffering with the extender : this may avoid touching the end of file (if this is really a problem) or may limit some read/write bottelneck

* The extender is being better for HD playback than your client PC or SageTV itself. As you are using Hardware Accel, CPU is not the issue, so it must be a disk access / network / memory, specifically a software issue (even Windows).

Your client PC is XP / Vista? If you try to view live TV on the server, does the same thing happens?

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

How long have you paused??

If I pause for a few seconds playback is ok again for about 30 seconds until it starts stuttering again

Originally Posted by StephaneM

* Implicit buffering with the extender : this may avoid touching the end of file (if this is really a problem) or may limit some read/write bottelneck?

What does this mean?

Originally Posted by StephaneM

* The extender is being better for HD playback than your client PC or SageTV itself. As you are using Hardware Accel, CPU is not the issue, so it must be a disk access / network / memory, specifically a software issue (even Windows).?

But recordings are fine so I don't suspect this to be the problem

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Your client PC is XP / Vista? If you try to view live TV on the server, does the same thing happens?

I cannot view on my server since I'm using the WHS version but my recording directory is NOT in the drive pool. My clients are XP

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

If I pause for a few seconds playback is ok again for about 30 seconds until it starts stuttering again

Try to pause for at least 5 minutes.

What does this mean?

It means that the extender as a client does something differently than the windows client. I was thinking that maybe the extender was accessing the recording using a network buffer of some sort but I can't really know.

But recordings are fine so I don't suspect this to be the problem

Indeed the recordings are fine even when played back in real time by the extender, so my point is: I don't see how DVBViewer could be responsible for stuttering on the client (the only thing you can try in DVBViewer is to remove completely the smart buffer feature).

So the issue has to be dependent on how the client is "loading" the live recording. What's the difference between the recording being live or being already recorded: disk access (through the network)... What's the difference between live playback on the client and the extender: network access / hardware / playback software....

[gianpieroizzo]

Hi Stephané,

thanks for the fix on the recording directory, now it works fine :-)
Obviosuly I'm now ready for the new problem... I don't see the languge selection in Sage (6.4.3), even if I set in DVBViewer (3.9.4) the flag to put all audio languages in the ts stream. I remember that it was working before (maybe with 3.9.2)
Any idea ?

thanks in advance
Gian Piero

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by gianpieroizzo

I don't see the languge selection in Sage (6.4.3), even if I set in DVBViewer (3.9.4) the flag to put all audio languages in the ts stream. I remember that it was working before (maybe with 3.9.2)
Any idea ?

Not really, I just tested one of my recordings (made by DVBViewer 3.9.4) on SageTV 6.4.3 and 6.4.4, and I can select the audio language (with the default STV anyway).

You should verify that your recordings does really have multiple audio streams (use VLC, DVBViewer or install Haali Media Splitter and use Windows Media Player). If the recordings does have multiple audio streams but SageTV doesn't show the "Audio Language" button you should submit a bug report.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Whitey]

I've just noticed another issue that I'm sure is simple to solve. I have two DVB-S tuners, one with a CAM and one without. I have sent up DVBViewer so the FTA channels are group A and the encrypted channels are group B.
So Card 1 can tune group A & B and Card 2 can tune group A only. I have set card 2 as "prefered" in DVBViewer and card 1 as "normal" but I have tried having both cards set as "normal" too.

At the moment, when a recording starts on a FTA channel (group A) sage uses card 1 so I cannot watch any channels in group B (encrypted) Why is this? I have missed recordings too when one reocrding has started before another one.

Do I have something set-up wrong? I hope you followed the explaination!

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

I have two DVB-S tuners.../...Card 1 can tune group A & B and Card 2 can tune group A only..../...when a recording starts on a FTA channel (group A) sage uses card 1 so I cannot watch any channels in group B (encrypted) Why is this?

Have you created multiple lineups in DVBViewer Recorder?

You have to create one lineup with group A and B channels, and one lineup with group A only. This way you can add two recorders in SageTV so as it can choose the best tuner to use (basically if you have more than one card in DVBViewer, SageTV has to have the same numbers of recorders).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Have you created multiple lineups in DVBViewer Recorder?

You have to create one lineup with group A and B channels, and one lineup with group A only. This way you can add two recorders in SageTV so as it can choose the best tuner to use (basically if you have more than one card in DVBViewer, SageTV has to have the same numbers of recorders).

Regards,
Stéphane.

Yes sorry, I have two encoders set-up in sage but it always uses the card with groups A & B first even if the channel is FTA (group A) I can always record a FTA channel and then watch another FTA channel.

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Yes sorry, I have two encoders set-up in sage but it always uses the card with groups A & B first even if the channel is FTA (group A) I can always record a FTA channel and then watch another FTA channel.

To be really sure, does SageTV always use the encoder with the lineup having group A&B channels?

I currently have a three tuners set up and SageTV always picked up the right encoder for scheduled recordings (however for LiveTV it may use the encoder with the most channel on it) and then DVBViewer pick up the right tuner.

Set up two recordings one on a group B channel and one on a group A channel (that start 5 min later if possible). With the help of the SageTV Web Server plugin you'll be able to see what encoder SageTV will use to record the show. For the first recording it should use the encoders attached to lineup with A&B, for the second to the lineup with A.

Repeat the same with a recording for channel on group A, and a recording for channel on group B starting 5 min later. SageTV should use the encoder with A only for the first recording and the encoder with A&B for the second recording.

If SageTV is always selecting the right encoder, then we can take a look at what happens with DVBViewer (Though "Card 2" being the preferred is what you have to do, so as when a recording on group A starts, it should use this card).

[swift_gti]

Stephan,

You have created a nice plugin here but I am having some problems gettings everything to work with my DVB-T card..

I have installed your program and;

• Added a network encoder in configuration mode
• Entered a couple of channel numbers into the Sage TV Channel column
• Added the encoder to Sage
• Selected the new source in Sage
• Selected 'Do not use a channel lineup' (This is my only source)
• Manually entered a few channel numbers matching the name and channel number to the ones in DVBViewer Recorder Config

Now if I go to my Program Guide and select one of the channels Sage just sits there with a spinning circle
My tuner makes no attempt to do anything, the DVBViewer Recorder Monitor shows 'START - Digital Tuner|101|.. etc' and thats all, it just sits there.
I have DVBViewer set to debug mode and looking at the logs it doesn't appear to even be attempting to do anything.

Any ideas on what I may have done wrong ?

Thanks!

[StephaneM]

Hi,

Originally Posted by swift_gti

Now if I go to my Program Guide and select one of the channels Sage just sits there with a spinning circle
My tuner makes no attempt to do anything, the DVBViewer Recorder Monitor shows 'START - Digital Tuner|101|.. etc' and thats all, it just sits there.

There is a nasty bug in DVBViewer 3.9.4: it doesn't add the recording folders my plugin request. So when the recording starts: I check if the folder is in DVBViewer, it is not, I request the addition, addition is acknowledged (but not done) and I request that this folder be used for recording (but obviously it can't be).

So: shut down DVBViewer Recorder, launch DVBViewer, add the folder(s) used in SageTV to record TV, exit DVBViewer. Edit the setup.xml file in the C:\ProgramData\CMUV\DVBViewer folder (Vista) or C:\Documents And Settings\All Users\Application Data\CMUV\DVBViewer folder (XP) and add a "\" at the end of the folders you just added (in the DVBViewer UI you cannot add this last "\" and I'm expecting it).

This bug should be fixed (DVBViewer team is aware of it).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[swift_gti]

Hi Stephane,

I tried your suggestion but the live TV still doesn't start.
For one channel I see the 'Start' event in the DVBRecorder Viewer Monitor but for another channel I don't even see that, nothing at all happens!

At no point has the little icon in the task tray changed colour, as I imagine the green dot goes red when recording ?

Any more ideas ?

Thanks!

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by swift_gti

Hi Stephane,

I tried your suggestion but the live TV still doesn't start.
For one channel I see the 'Start' event in the DVBRecorder Viewer Monitor but for another channel I don't even see that, nothing at all happens!

At no point has the little icon in the task tray changed colour, as I imagine the green dot goes red when recording ?

Any more ideas ?

Thanks!

Is a recording file created in your recordings folder? If so does is have a size that increases as the recording goes on? If you have, the recording service is working so it might be a sage problem

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by swift_gti

At no point has the little icon in the task tray changed colour, as I imagine the green dot goes red when recording ?Any more ideas ?

Yes the dot should turn red.

Can you send me in a zip file at lmgestion@hotmail.com :

* the C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\sage.properties file
* the C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\LM Gestion\DVBViewer Recorder\recorders.xml file
* the C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\CMUV\DVBViewer\setup.xml file

Regards,
Stéphane.

[swift_gti]

Thanks for the help guys.

I am away from home until tomorrow night so I will get the requested files sent over once I'm back.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

To be really sure, does SageTV always use the encoder with the lineup having group A&B channels?

I currently have a three tuners set up and SageTV always picked up the right encoder for scheduled recordings (however for LiveTV it may use the encoder with the most channel on it) and then DVBViewer pick up the right tuner.

Set up two recordings one on a group B channel and one on a group A channel (that start 5 min later if possible). With the help of the SageTV Web Server plugin you'll be able to see what encoder SageTV will use to record the show. For the first recording it should use the encoders attached to lineup with A&B, for the second to the lineup with A.

Repeat the same with a recording for channel on group A, and a recording for channel on group B starting 5 min later. SageTV should use the encoder with A only for the first recording and the encoder with A&B for the second recording.

If SageTV is always selecting the right encoder, then we can take a look at what happens with DVBViewer (Though "Card 2" being the preferred is what you have to do, so as when a recording on group A starts, it should use this card).

Done some testing and sage always uses card 1 (A&B) first. I don't use webserver so I don't know if it's sage requesting the wrong encoder or DVBViewer using the wrong card. I suspect it's DVBViewer because I don't get a warning message from sage saying that no tuners are available for the selected channel and it trys to tune the channel.

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Done some testing and sage always uses card 1 (A&B) first. I don't use webserver so I don't know if it's sage requesting the wrong encoder or DVBViewer using the wrong card. I suspect it's DVBViewer because I don't get a warning message from sage saying that no tuners are available for the selected channel and it trys to tune the channel.

Okay, then it's probably DVBViewer that is doing something "smart" as I found here : http://www.dvbviewer.info/forum/inde...7&hl=preferred

It seems that DVBViewer will try to minmize hardware usage, so if you are using card 1 for a recording and soon after a recording finish you record another show it will re-use card 1. This has to be confirmed though (Are you using the "fast back to back recording" and "enable audio / video" within DVBViewer Recorder? because when those two are selected it will force one tuner to be active for a long time and this may trigger the "smart" hardware use of DVBViewer, this is something that I can fix, meanwhile disable the "fast back to back recording" and let me know if it improve things)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Okay, then it's probably DVBViewer that is doing something "smart" as I found here : http://www.dvbviewer.info/forum/inde...7&hl=preferred

It seems that DVBViewer will try to minmize hardware usage, so if you are using card 1 for a recording and soon after a recording finish you record another show it will re-use card 1. This has to be confirmed though (Are you using the "fast back to back recording" and "enable audio / video" within DVBViewer Recorder? because when those two are selected it will force one tuner to be active for a long time and this may trigger the "smart" hardware use of DVBViewer, this is something that I can fix, meanwhile disable the "fast back to back recording" and let me know if it improve things)

Regards,
Stéphane.

I'm not using fast back to back recordings or have video/audio enabled. I hope you can find a fix!

Thanks again

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

I'm not using fast back to back recordings or have video/audio enabled. I hope you can find a fix!

Well, if you don't use these options, I have nothing to fix! When audio/video is enabled and fast back to back recording are active in DVBViewer Recorder, then the tuners in DVBViewer are used for a long time, so it could make DVBViewer use the wrong tuner to minimize hardware switching.

However, if you don't have these options enabled: the hardware is initialized for each recording and deactivated immediately when the recording stops.

So you should check that when setting the "group A only" card as the preferred DVBViewer is really using this card for tuning A channels (use DVBViewer all alone to verify this, you should also verify that as soons as you tune a B channel, it will switch to the other card and stick to it if you go to a A channel after <= this is because DVBViewer doesn't deactivate hardware while you are using it , this is the same as "fast back to back recordings" with the Recorder plugin)