Tutorial: SageTV on WHS with 64K clusters in the drive pool...

[psklenar]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

... My old tutorial: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...-e6c047c4c431/ still works, even after the November update. I did it last month.

Yes it does. My brand new WHS SageTV setup has a 500GB system drive (with a 100GB C: partition and the remainder in the D: partition) and three 1TB drives added to the pool. The two partitions on the System drive are 4k clusters and the three 1TB drives are all 64K clusters.

The one thing I did different was ... where you used the $800 Paragon Partition Manager to adjust your C: partition size, I used the freeware Parted Magic. Works perfectly.

Thank you very much for both tutorials (resizing C: and 64K clusters in the pool)!!!!

pat----

[S_M_E]

That's a different tutorial.

[psklenar]

oops. so it is. <blush>

<sigh> that's what i get for posting after several days in a row of insufficient sleep. C'est la vie.

But the main point of my post stands ... thank you for your tutorials!
pat----

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by psklenar

oops. so it is. <blush>

<sigh> that's what i get for posting after several days in a row of insufficient sleep. C'est la vie.

But the main point of my post stands ... thank you for your tutorials!
pat----

You might want to check out the other tutorials I wrote on the WHS forums, you may find more that you like. Or not.

[gplasky]

So I'm going thru trying to get all my drives in the pool. When I first install WHS I can only see my pata drive (500GB) so I get a C and a D partition. I have to install drivers for WHS to see the rest. SO right after install I have just C & D. I install the drivers and reboot and now the other 4 drives show up with 1 that has no data. So say I add the one empty drive to the pool and I format with 64K blocks. Do I create the SageTV share from the WHS console? And if I do will those recordings just go to the data drive I just formatted w 64K blocks? Or does that SageTV share also exist on the D drive which is default 4K blocks? I guess my concern is do I or don't I need to format the D partition? Because isn't originally all the shares are created on the D partition? So think of this install being on a single drive with a drive added to the PC after the install.

Gerry

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

So say I add the one empty drive to the pool and I format with 64K blocks. Do I create the SageTV share from the WHS console?

Exactly, then you tell sage where the recording drive is in SETUP, using the UNC path to the SageTV share you just created.

And if I do will those recordings just go to the data drive I just formatted w 64K blocks? Or does that SageTV share also exist on the D drive which is default 4K blocks?

WHS should use the non-D DATA drives first as long as the pool isn't too full.

I guess my concern is do I or don't I need to format the D partition? Because isn't originally all the shares are created on the D partition? So think of this install being on a single drive with a drive added to the PC after the install.

I don't recommend converting the D partition to 64K clusters because D: is still where all of the small tombstone files live and you could waste a lot of space, however you could, technically, convert C and D to 64K clusters if you don;t care about that wasted space (drives are cheap) but I've never tested it. Also, that is why you want to add your empty drive to the pool and format it BEFORE adding any data to the pool and that's why you don't want to let the pooled drives get too full before adding more space. Also, disable duplication on all shares until you have at least 3 drives in your WHS box to keep it from using D.

I'd also suggest using all SATAII drives but if you HAVE to use PATA, the system drive is probably the best place for it. I used PATA during my first WHS beta but I'm much happier with SATAII drives now. YMMV...

[gplasky]

OK. Thanks for the confirmation. I just wasn't clear if it would cretae the shares on the DATA drive I formatted to 64k. I used a pata drive for the os to keep the drives seperated and because my mb has 4 SATA ports on board. I'll probably go e-SATA for any more drives but 3 of mine are only 500GB so I would probably play the swap game before I start going external. I'll leave C and D alone.

Gerry

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I don't recommend converting the D partition to 64K clusters because D: is still where all of the small tombstone files live and you could waste a lot of space, however you could, technically, convert C and D to 64K clusters if you don;t care about that wasted space (drives are cheap) but I've never tested it.

I eventually got the nerve to rip apart my working server running 2003 and replace it with WHS. Install went fine until I realised that I'd used a 1TB drive as my primary HDD. Not a problem I thought, until I re-read your tutorial (very nice by the way) and came to the conclusion that I will have massive amounts of wasted drive space (D) formated to 4k clusters which could potentialy get used as a recording drive. So being the lemming that I am I decided to format the D partion with 64k clusters. As it was a clean install with nothing on it I didnt loose anything much except the software folder (That I know of anyway).
So currently I have all 4.5TB of data storage formated with 64k clusters and the system drive (C 20GB) formated with 4k clusters. The recording drive is located in the pool and have so far not noticed any issues (4 days uptime). Hopefully it will stay this way

One thing I have noticed is my memory usage shooting up from 450MB (2003) to 1.09GB (WHS). I do have my Java heap size set to 756MB and my virtual memory set at 1.5 times my overall RAM size (4GB).
Is your memory usage excessive?

Regards

Ben

[S_M_E]

To further expand; there is a case to be made for converting the C and/or D partitions (d more than C) to 64K clusters and I do have a theory on the best way to do that but I haven't tested it yet and I don;t have a spare box that I'm willing to sacrifice for that right now.

Since PP1 and the November updates there have been changes to the landing zone and free space reporting that may make WHS more willing to put data on the D partition. There is an unsupported way to force migration of that data off of the D partition but if it had 64K clusters then that would never be an issue, assuming that all drives were SATAII so drive performance would be equal. As I said, space is cheap and wasting the space for 64K clusters (like insurance) may be worth it.

There is no real reason to convert the C partition but if you're converting everything else, you could do that one too.

Also, e-SATA is just as fast as internal ports would be but you could just add an internal card for more ports too, assuming your case will hold them. If you were to add more SATA ports and change your PATA for SATA, that would also give you a chance to resize the C partition, if so desired. Also, since you'd have to re-install WHS if you converted to SATA, you could add your empty drives at install (you have to specify drivers or change the SATA ports to use IDE mode in the BIOS), which might be better than adding them after a single drive install.

If people DO perform single drive installs, I recommend NOT installing PP1 or the November updates until after at least 2 more drives are added.

If C and/or D was going to be converted to 64K clusters then it wouldn't matter if WHS uses the D partition any more.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

If people DO perform single drive installs, I recommend NOT installing PP1 or the November updates until after at least 2 more drives are added.

Bummer, I did that Why wouldn't you recommend it?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by jaminben

I eventually got the nerve to rip apart my working server running 2003 and replace it with WHS. Install went fine until I realised that I'd used a 1TB drive as my primary HDD. Not a problem I thought, until I re-read your tutorial (very nice by the way) and came to the conclusion that I will have massive amounts of wasted drive space (D formated to 4k clusters which could potentialy get used as a recording drive. So being the lemming that I am I decided to format the D: partion as with 64k clusters. As it was a clean install with nothing on it I didnt loose anything much except the software folder.

Actually it's the other way around, you'll waste more space on the D parition with 64K clusters. I'm guessing the way you did D is how Gerry did D during the WHS beta since you both lost the Software share (which IS important BTW) but I haven't tested my theory yet so I'm hesitant to post it and it's too late in your case anyway.

One thing I have noticed is my memory usage shooting up from 450MB (2003) to 1.09GB (WHS). I do have my Java heap size set to 756MB and my virtual memory set at 1.5 times my overall RAM size (4GB).
Is your memory usage excessive?

WHS runs a number of services and I have no idea what else you've installed, if anything but my current memory usage is just barely under 1G out of my 3G total but I run more than just Sage. I did notice a slight memory leak in Sage, so if you VNC or otherwise remote to your desktop, start the GUI and then exit the gui or put it in standby, it will release *some* of the memory but really not much. I'm still just under 1G.

Originally Posted by jaminben

Bummer, I did that Why wouldn't you recommend it?

Because of the changes to the landing zone and free space reporting. Since you converted D to 64K it's not an issue for you other than you need that Software share and everything that was in it.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Because of the changes to the landing zone and free space reporting. Since you converted D to 64K it's not an issue for you other than you need that Software share and everything that was in it.

Luckly I was already running WHS on another PC so I just copied the folders back again. I assume that doing this is ok, or is the software folder used for anything else?

[S_M_E]

Did you copy back the SW folder before adding more drives to the pool? That should work although I've never needed to restore anything on the D partition so hopefully that's all that you need. I think Gerry used a backup of the D partition to restore his but I don't know what else, if anything, was required. Since your WHS has been running 4 days without errors you're probably good to go.

If you experience weird crashes try dropping the RAM from 4G to 2G or 3G (depending on how many of what size sticks you use), as you know the 32bit OS can use 4G but it only reports 3G and you can get crashes if there are extremely large processes with 4G installed. I never liked that it reported 3G when it had 4G so I only use 3G in mine. YMMV...

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Did you copy back the SW folder before adding more drives to the pool?

Yes I did, I think

I can't beleive I posted on here last night saying I didnt have any issues. What a stupid thing to do as when I got up this morning guess what...... Sage had frozen I talked that one up.
So I restarted the service and everything seemed to be ok except when I went to the guide, it locks up again. So being the impataient twat I'am, I decided to reinstall Sage. I goto the console use the add-ins tab to remove SageTV, restart WHS then added SageTV again. To my surprise it kept all my settings and the best thing was it all works again. I'll have to see how long it last's this time, if it goes wrong again I'll remove 2Gb of ram and try again.
Just out of curiosity is this the normal procedure to install a beta/new version of SageTV using the add-in tabs to remove and install?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by jaminben

Just out of curiosity is this the normal procedure to install a beta/new version of SageTV using the add-in tabs to remove and install?

Yeah, I tend to reboot after removing the old one just to avoid extra WHS console tabs. After one version upgrade I had two Sage tabs in the console and it was a PITA to fix so now I just reboot to be safe.

[viper72]

I am having some difficulties. I reformatted to 64k clusters on two drives and everything was working great. I then removed one of the drives later (by accident-I thought drive was a bad manufacture, but was not). I followed the tutorial and added the drive back in. Reformatted using the tutorial procedure, but I am only getting 4k clusters when doing a Defrag Analysis. I moved all files back on to the drive to see if that would change things, but am still getting 4k clusters. I then, removed other 64k cluster drive and then readded and reformatted and now it is only 4k clusters.

What is going on?

[gplasky]

When you add a drive back in it will format it again at 4 k. After you readd the drive and it shows up as a storage drive. You need to reformat it again from Disk Management and make sure you choose 64 k from the drop down. (Don't leave it at default). After you do that reboot the server before you check the drive block size.

Gerry

[viper72]

Originally Posted by gplasky

When you add a drive back in it will format it again at 4 k. After you readd the drive and it shows up as a storage drive. You need to reformat it again from Disk Management and make sure you choose 64 k from the drop down. (Don't leave it at default). After you do that reboot the server before you check the drive block size.

Gerry

Thanks for your response. The rebooting before checking the drive block size did it!

Thanks! I am going to try the other drive now by removing, readding, and going through the above process.

[Muchacho]

I am planning on doing a complete re-install and jumping on the WHS bus. Before I do, I was hoping that you all could answer some of my questions?

If my media and recording are already on drives with 64K clusters, can I just stick them into a WHS install and add them to the pool- avoiding having to reformat and keeping all my media?

Can other applications such has handbrake and uTorrent run on WHS? I typically use my sageTV box for this as it is alway on.

Is there a pluggin available that will backup key folders to an external drive that can be removed? I like having my data on a separate external drive that is not even plugged in, to avoid the risk of a surge or something crazy.

Thanks for the info- this sound like a great option.

Cheers, Mike

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Muchacho

If my media and recording are already on drives with 64K clusters, can I just stick them into a WHS install and add them to the pool- avoiding having to reformat and keeping all my media?

No, any drive added to the pool will be formatted as well as any drive in the server during a new install. You'll have to either backup the data temporarily or transfer it to free space in the pool, if it exists, before adding drives.

Can other applications such has handbrake and uTorrent run on WHS? I typically use my sageTV box for this as it is alway on.

Yes, there is an add-in for utorrent but not handbrake. WHS isn't meant to be used as a desktop...

Is there a pluggin available that will backup key folders to an external drive that can be removed? I like having my data on a separate external drive that is not even plugged in, to avoid the risk of a surge or something crazy.

If you mean to backup data on your shares, yes, it's a feature of PP1. If you mean non-shared data (like your Sage install dir) then you'd have to use something like MS SyncToy to do that.