Tutorial: SageTV on WHS with 64K clusters in the drive pool...

[Muchacho]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

No, any drive added to the pool will be formatted as well as any drive in the server during a new install. You'll have to either backup the data temporarily or transfer it to free space in the pool, if it exists, before adding drives.

Thanks for the info. Could I just add the drives and not include them in the pool? I figure that I could move my recorded TV to all the old IDE drives that I have laying around and then use the SATA ones in the pool for more important data.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Muchacho

Thanks for the info. Could I just add the drives and not include them in the pool? I figure that I could move my recorded TV to all the old IDE drives that I have laying around and then use the SATA ones in the pool for more important data.

You could (I wouldn't) but if you're going to do that then you're not using WHS to it's full potential. What I would do is backup the 2 largest drives (temporarily) to the older IDE drives and then add the SATA drives to the pool during the WHS install and convert (while empty) to 64K clusters. Then you take your next largest SATA drive and copy it's data to the pool, then add that drive to the pool and convert to 64K. Repeat until you have no more SATA drives to add to the pool and they're all 64K clusters. I wouldn't use PATA drives for the WHS pool, personally, they're a lot slower and less reliable although WHS does support them. You could then use the PATA drives for the external backups that you mentioned. Drives are cheap and they can be added as needed. Just never let your WHS get "too full" unless you convert the D partition to 64K clusters or you risk media getting shoved to D:.

(BTW: The more I think about it the more I think 64K clusters on the D partition is a good idea, especially since PP1 and the November updates, despite the wasted space. Space is cheap.)

[camTexas]

Has anyone used any drive tools to change to 64K sectors without actually having to reformat. I have a fully populated WHS server but I'm looking at converting the D partition to 64K. The partition is fairly empty but does already have my other computer backups, etc... I'd rather not try and build from scratch as I have 2TB+ on my pool drives.

I thought I had read somewhere once that this was possible. Just seeing if anyone has experience doing it.

Thanks - Chad

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by camTexas

Has anyone used any drive tools to change to 64K sectors without actually having to reformat. I have a fully populated WHS server but I'm looking at converting the D partition to 64K. The partition is fairly empty but does already have my other computer backups, etc... I'd rather not try and build from scratch as I have 2TB+ on my pool drives.

I thought I had read somewhere once that this was possible. Just seeing if anyone has experience doing it.

Thanks - Chad

No, I'm wondering the same thing for the D partition though. Formatting pooled drives to get to 64K clusters is easy but the D partition I wanted to avoid using the format method.

I did try using those tools to resize the C partition after install with bad results (which is how I came up with the other tutorial) but just changing cluster size MIGHT be safer.

I'm just not willing to try it on a populated server, I have much more than just Sage on mine. If you're willing to try it the worst thing that will happen is that you'd have to do a Server Reinstall to recover, the data on the pool would still be safe. You'd have to recreate users and non-standard shares in the console and you could lose client backups.

[gplasky]

Just so you know on my latest adventure to get my drives in the pool I just copied everything off the D drive (wasn't alot but did include some backups) to a USB drive I had plugged in, formatted D: with 64K blocks and then copied it all back on. I don't think WHS even knew it was gone.

Gerry

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Just so you know on my latest adventure to get my drives in the pool I just copied everything off the D drive (wasn't alot but did include some backups) to a USB drive I had plugged in, formatted D: with 64K blocks and then copied it all back on. I don't think WHS even knew it was gone.

Gerry

Good thing that permissions weren't an issue, I'm glad that method still works but, like camTexas, I'd prefer to just convert rather than format if possible. I'm just not willing to test it on my production server and I don't have a spare machine for testing right now. I think I'll wait for somebody to test it and add it to the tutorial if it works. I'll add your method, as an option, later as well.

[TallMomof2]

I have parts from Newegg arriving tomorrow to build a server. I was going to use a 160GB SATA drive I have lying around for the system drive but after rereading this thread I'm going to pull a 500GB drive out of DH's desktop and use that. I'll also pull one of the 1TB out of my desktop, after moving a few files, so I'll have a second 1TB when I set up the new server. WHS is brand new to me so wish me luck.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

I have parts from Newegg arriving tomorrow to build a server. I was going to use a 160GB SATA drive I have lying around for the system drive but after rereading this thread I'm going to pull a 500GB drive out of DH's desktop and use that. I'll also pull one of the 1TB out of my desktop, after moving a few files, so I'll have a second 1TB when I set up the new server. WHS is brand new to me so wish me luck.

I'd suggest setting the bios to see the sata ports as IDE, not RAID nor AHCI. This will make installing WHS much easier because you won't need to specify storage drivers twice.

Also, if you plan on resizing the C partition; install time is the right time. If you plan on converting the C and/or D partitions to 64K clusters; install time would be the right time for that as well. If anything were to go wrong (and it shouldn't) you can easily start over since nothing else would be installed yet.

You can always get answers to questions on the WHS forums too. I have a number of tutorials to do different things there.

Good luck!

[gplasky]

If you do choose to use AHCI (like I did) you'll want to have a USB floppy disk drive and a disk with the drivers on it. Even though the first part of the install will let you browse to a USB flash drive. (Or any removable drive you have) when you reach the text part of the Windows install you need to be there when it starts and to press F6 and then "S". The text install is hardcoded to only look on the A: drive for the drivers. Even with my drives set to IDE (previous install) WHS didn't see all the drives after the install until I installed the drivers for the SATA ports. (It could only see the OS drive on the PATA port.)

Gerry

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

If you do choose to use AHCI (like I did) you'll want to have a USB floppy disk drive and a disk with the drivers on it. Even though the first part of the install will let you browse to a USB flash drive. (Or any removable drive you have) when you reach the text part of the Windows install you need to be there when it starts and to press F6 and then "S". The text install is hardcoded to only look on the A: drive for the drivers. Even with my drives set to IDE (previous install) WHS didn't see all the drives after the install until I installed the drivers for the SATA ports. (It could only see the OS drive on the PATA port.)

Gerry

In IDE mode WHS found all of my drives but I also have a tutorial for slipstreaming drivers into WHS on the WHS forums.

My "other" tutorials...

[TallMomof2]

Thanks for the tips, I'll set the drives as IDE. I have an external DVD drive that hopefully I'll be able to boot from after I change boot priority. If not, I'll pull a DVD drive off one of my other PCs.

I really like the idea of having a dedicated HTPC and it looks like WHS with pooled drives is the way to go. DH thinks I'm nuts to spend so much time and energy on this and he's a highly skilled network engineer! This is also a man who has *never* used an ATM.

Now if only I could talk him into wiring the house with cat 6.....

[najames]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Now if only I could talk him into wiring the house with cat 6.....

I can't stand it any more without networking, started pulling 3 Cat6 to each room via the attic, will finish today. Is it a fun job crawling around up there in the dirt/insulation? NO, but it beats paying $100 per drop, plus I know it is done right if I do it. One Cat6 for networking, others for other possible needs plus 3 wires are just as easy to pull as one using Monoprice pull boxes. I was going to pull a 5 wire mini-rgb too, but am thinking of networked SageTV extenders instead.

WHS Problems/Questions

I downloaded the 120day trial off the MS website, and have seen some nagging issues so afar with WHS. Anyone else seeing this stuff?

1) I set this up before seeing the tutorial on slipstreaming. I have used NLight in the past on Win2k and decided it would be easier to take a floppy drive out of a dead PC. It seemed to work installing AHCI drivers. I have drive temps and under device IDE controllers it lists an "Intel ICH9R/DO/DOH Sata AHCI Controller". Correct? It still lists the drives as "Internal (ATA)" in the console.

2) I installed the MS updates to WHS, installed the disk management software, 64K clusters for three WD 640GB drives, nothing done to the 500GB system drive clusters yet. Now am getting critical error warnings about the backup service not running. Ideas?

3) There are no G35 video drivers for WHS Intel. I click on downloads for XP and it says "error in page". I also tried to download an older version for the ASUS P5E-VM HDM motherboard, but they will not install, running the exe says the "drivers are not for this OS" and stops. Looks like I need a cheap single slot low powered video card. Anyone else using a G35 board? I need to get all devices working properly before I install SageTV.

4) I was going to MS websites and getting all sorts of IE6 ActiveX and Javascript problems so I had to spend time to find out what security settings to change. Ditto for Intel graphics driver page. Grrrr. I basically said let there be a free for all on ActiveX and Javascripts so I can do some testing.

5) Wireframe looks like it might be a pain in the butt to set up, not WHS related though.

Again, I have been using Linux at home for years, WinXP and Solaris at work. I'll admit that I am not as in-touch with setting up a MS OS as I would be Linux. I like the looks of WHS, the pool thing and backups seem nice if it all works. I still might try Vista64 too.

Time to head up in the attic for a while.....

[robogeek]

Originally Posted by najames

1) I set this up before seeing the tutorial on slipstreaming. I have used NLight in the past on Win2k and decided it would be easier to take a floppy drive out of a dead PC. It seemed to work installing AHCI drivers. I have drive temps and under device IDE controllers it lists an "Intel ICH9R/DO/DOH Sata AHCI Controller". Correct? It still lists the drives as "Internal (ATA)" in the console.

I see this too. Drives hooked to the AHCI controller and the Promise IDE PATA controller show up as Internal (ATA). But, interestingly, 2 SATA drives hooked to 2 other non-AHCI ports configured for IDE mode are listed as Unknown...gotta love Windows

2) I installed the MS updates to WHS, installed the disk management software, 64K clusters for three WD 640GB drives, nothing done to the 500GB system drive clusters yet. Now am getting critical error warnings about the backup service not running. Ideas?

I'm not sure about this one. Have you checked the Event Viewer to see if there are any errors causing the service to fail. I did the updates, installed the disk management add-in, followed the tutorial to format 3 250GB drives to 64k clusters and didn't touch the fourth 250GB system drive and didn't have this problem.

3) There are no G35 video drivers for WHS Intel. I click on downloads for XP and it says "error in page". I also tried to download an older version for the ASUS P5E-VM HDM motherboard, but they will not install, running the exe says the "drivers are not for this OS" and stops. Looks like I need a cheap single slot low powered video card. Anyone else using a G35 board? I need to get all devices working properly before I install SageTV.

If you can get the driver installer .exe, try running it in Windows XP compatibility mode. I had to download the .exe installer for my GeForce 9500 video driver, right click it, select Properties, click the Compatibility tab, check the 'Run this program in compatibility mode for:' box, then select Windows XP from the drop down, and then click OK. Then I was able to install it.

4) I was going to MS websites and getting all sorts of IE6 ActiveX and Javascript problems so I had to spend time to find out what security settings to change. Ditto for Intel graphics driver page. Grrrr. I basically said let there be a free for all on ActiveX and Javascripts so I can do some testing.

Yeah, IE on WHS is very locked down.

5) Wireframe looks like it might be a pain in the butt to set up, not WHS related though.

I haven't done it yet, but yeah, it looks like a pain in the butt if you don't have a case that is listed in the downloadable templates link.

[najames]

Thanks for the reply, sanity restored....somewhat.

I hacked around on this until 2am before I gave up and put in the floppy drive, not sure if love is the right word!!

I thought about the critical backup errors some more. I accidently hit defrag on one drive instead of analyze when checking the clusters. It might have caused it.

I can't install G35 drivers because the .exe Asus drivers refuse to even start, it immediately opens a panel and says "incompatible OS", no option to do anything. The Intel site refuses to download the driver on the WHS server for some funky reason. If I try downloading on my Linux box, it says " this driver is not for Linux", well duh, I know that Intel. I said bad words, left for lunch.

The good news...I pulled more Cat6 today. I'd be done if I didn't have a entertainment center that goes to the ceiling. I need to move it so I can drill a tiny hole in the sheetrock and run up a coat hanger to find it in the attic so I know where to drill in the wall plate. I'm starting to salivate like a Palovian mutt on getting some extenders and a server up and running.

[gplasky]

Sometimes instead of running the .exe on WHS use something like winrar and extract the drivers out of it and point the hardware wizard to those drivers. Or find a .zip version of the drivers.

Gerry

[TallMomof2]

I installed WHS on an ASUS G45 board. I had the same problem with you with the video drivers. I kept drilling down until I found a setup.exe that would run in XP mode. IIRC, it was an Intel setup program located at vga>xp>32. All of the ASUS setup programs for the video drivers would not run in XP mode.

I'm still moving files and adding hard drives (had almost 3TB on hard drives to move to the WHS install) and haven't had much of a chance to play with Sage yet. I'll let you know if the video files are installed and working.

[mangriotis]

First, thanks for this tutorial.

I have a question that may be a bit off topic:

If I am migrating a longstanding install of Sage from my Vista box to a new (less powerful) WHS box, how do I maintain my history, configuration, etc.? Is it just a matter of copying sage.properties and wiz.bin from the old server (vista) to the new one (WHS), or is there something more extensive I need to do?

Did I miss this in the manual somewhere?

[gplasky]

Check the FAQs but mostly you need the wiz.bin. Going to difierent hardware you may be better off NOT using the previous .properties files and just reconfigure the new install. After you configure it and test to make it works stop SageTV and drop in your wiz.bin and start SageTV up again.

Gerry

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by najames

Thanks for the reply, sanity restored....somewhat.

I hacked around on this until 2am before I gave up and put in the floppy drive, not sure if love is the right word!!

I thought about the critical backup errors some more. I accidently hit defrag on one drive instead of analyze when checking the clusters. It might have caused it.

I can't install G35 drivers because the .exe Asus drivers refuse to even start, it immediately opens a panel and says "incompatible OS", no option to do anything. The Intel site refuses to download the driver on the WHS server for some funky reason. If I try downloading on my Linux box, it says " this driver is not for Linux", well duh, I know that Intel. I said bad words, left for lunch.

The good news...I pulled more Cat6 today. I'd be done if I didn't have a entertainment center that goes to the ceiling. I need to move it so I can drill a tiny hole in the sheetrock and run up a coat hanger to find it in the attic so I know where to drill in the wall plate. I'm starting to salivate like a Palovian mutt on getting some extenders and a server up and running.

The defrag is what caused problems. The windows built in defrag is NOT recommended by microsoft for WHS. This is because it was not built with "drive extender" in mind. It is simply a carryover from Win2k3 SBS.

I would remove all the storage drives and try this tutorial again. Also, what does your event log say?

For anything else check out wegotserved.com. It is a very active and great WHS user community. Almost anything you need to do appears as a how-to in the WIKI.

[najames]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

The defrag is what caused problems. The windows built in defrag is NOT recommended by microsoft for WHS. This is because it was not built with "drive extender" in mind. It is simply a carryover from Win2k3 SBS.

I would remove all the storage drives and try this tutorial again. Also, what does your event log say?

For anything else check out wegotserved.com. It is a very active and great WHS user community. Almost anything you need to do appears as a how-to in the WIKI.

I didn't intend to run defrag, it was a accidental PEBCAK. Nothing lost, all drives are currently empty while I am testing.

Event logs are long gone now. I actually tried to reinstall WHS last night, but it didn't want to read my floppy drive, instead it kept asking if I wanted to format it during the install. The disk and drive are both ancient. I think I'll go find a new floppy disk here at work. It might be time to slipstream too. I don't want to do a lot until I can test Sagetv running on WHS, the whole shootin' match.

I want to like WHS, REALLY liked the way it worked when I added 2 more drives to the pool as a test, but some of these things are driving me