An Ordeal - Migrating from VMC to SageTV (Calling Ghostlobster)

[babgvant]

the same qam file that plays crappy in graphedit w/ evr, plays smooth in VMC? if so, I'm stumped; never seen anything like that before...

[T^2]

A couple things I don't quite understand...

1) Why the video renderers are showing 59 fps when the orginal content was 29 fps. When the recordings are made with VMC, the frame rate is 29 fps.

2) Why graphedit won't show the video when I use EVR. Graphstudio does.

[T^2]

I played the files with both VMC and WMP and in both case playback and cpu usage was fine.

[babgvant]

1) HD ATSC can be 59/60 fps (most is), HD QAM maybe too.
2) it should, that is a strange one too. is it smooth in graphstudio w/ evr? i've never seen a playback difference b/w graphedit and graphstudio...

[T^2]

Ok I may be on to something...

I just installed PDVD7 and rendered the graph with graphstudio. The CyberLink Video/SP Decoder {PDVD7) has an option to deselect/select DXVA. I replaced the renderer with EVR. Here are the results.

With DXVA on:
- CPU usage normal (10 to 15%)
- Smooth playback
- 59 fps

With DXVA off:
- CPU usage high (30 to 40%)
- Jerky playback
- 29 fps

It looks like SageTV is disabling HWA... ???

[babgvant]

I use the PDVD7 decoder in sage, IMO it works better than the MS one for dvds too...

HWA works in Sage with EVR (6.5.3); if you select it in Sage does the problem go away?

[T^2]

I've had HWA and EVR selected in SageTV this whole entire time.

[T^2]

Ok... I went in and started playing around with the settings again. I made sure the cyberlink decoder was selected. I then selected overlay as the renderer. To my amazement the playback was much improved. However, the cpu usage went through the roof (50 to 60%). Then I selected VMR9 and again I was amazed. The playback appeared to be normal - or close to it. Cpu usage went down to the 15 to 20% range. I then selected the EVR renderer. Performance was not as good as with VMR9. Playback was smoother than I had seen in the past (with Microsofts MPEG decoder). But there was occasional tearing etc. Cpu usage went up to 30+%. S

So there is got to be something screwed up with how SageTV sets up the graph and configures the decoder. That's my guess anyway.

Note: No setup was a good as the video was when watch directly on my TV. There was still some jerkiness in demanding scenes (i.e. room panning etc.) that was not present when watched directly. This never happens in VMC.

Another note: Both VMC and WMP playback of these files is perfect.

If SageTV cannot be made to perform correctly, then I'll have to go back to VMC.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by T^2

I've had HWA and EVR selected in SageTV this whole entire time.

setting HWA doesn't make playback accelerated, just the UI.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by T^2

Ok... I went in and started playing around with the settings again. I made sure the cyberlink decoder was selected. I then selected overlay as the renderer. To my amazement the playback was much improved. However, the cpu usage went through the roof (50 to 60%). Then I selected VMR9 and again I was amazed. The playback appeared to be normal - or close to it. Cpu usage went down to the 15 to 20% range. I then selected the EVR renderer. Performance was not as good as with VMR9. Playback was smoother than I had seen in the past (with Microsofts MPEG decoder). But there was occasional tearing etc. Cpu usage went up to 30+%. S

So there is got to be something screwed up with how SageTV sets up the graph and configures the decoder. That's my guess anyway.

Note: No setup was a good as the video was when watch directly on my TV. There was still some jerkiness in demanding scenes (i.e. room panning etc.) that was not present when watched directly. This never happens in VMC.

Another note: Both VMC and WMP playback of these files is perfect.

If SageTV cannot be made to perform correctly, then I'll have to go back to VMC.

AFAIK Sage doesn't configure the decoders, that's up to you...

Did you setup pdvd to do HWA? You need to verify that the HWA box is checked in the settings, and playback a file so it actually saves the value (took me a while to figure out that playing was important).

[T^2]

Can you remote connect to a SageTV graph with graphedit?

[T^2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

AFAIK Sage doesn't configure the decoders, that's up to you...

Did you setup pdvd to do HWA? You need to verify that the HWA box is checked in the settings, and playback a file so it actually saves the value (took me a while to figure out that playing was important).

I checked the DXVA box on the PDVD7 decoder while I was playing with it in graphedit. I guess that's doesn't get it - in terms of saving the selection - and I'll need to follow your suggestion above.

My understanding - is that VMC uses the Microsoft MPEG-2 decoder. No? I could be wrong and it might use others depending on the merit. I might be confusing VMC's behavior with renderers and how VMC always uses EVR. I haven't seen where HWA can be selected/deselected with Microsoft's decoder. Yet VMC seems to use it correctly (HWA works) - if indeed VMC is using the Microsoft decoder. However, the performance is terrible when SageTV is configure to use it. So if the applications are not setting up how the decoders are used, then why is there a difference when the two applications use the same graphs (presumably)?

I haven't tried connecting to a remote graph (using graphedit or graphstudio) with VMC. Does this work with VMC? My understanding is that the application has to expose it's graph to the ROT for this to work, but I haven't tried it with VMC so I don't know if this works.

[Taddeusz]

You'll need to download the Directshow Filter Manager in order to permanently change the filter settings. That program will also let you change the merits so that certain filters are chosen by default.

[T^2]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

You'll need to download the Directshow Filter Manager in order to permanently change the filter settings. That program will also let you change the merits so that certain filters are chosen by default.

My understanding is that Directshow Filter Manager doesn't work with Vista (or was it just Vista x64?). I have Vista x64. Graphstudio will let you change merits in Vista x64.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by T^2

My understanding is that Directshow Filter Manager doesn't work with Vista (or was it just Vista x64?). I have Vista x64. Graphstudio will let you change merits in Vista x64.

It works fine for me in Vista x64. I have to run it as an Administrator for it to actually be able to make changes though.

I have EVR working fine with hardware acceleration in SageTV using the Cyberlink PDVD8 decoders. I get about 10-15% usage while decoding MPEG2 and about 3-5% decoding H.264 on my Radeon 3870.

[T^2]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

It works fine for me in Vista x64. I have to run it as an Administrator for it to actually be able to make changes though.

I have EVR working fine with hardware acceleration in SageTV using the Cyberlink PDVD8 decoders. I get about 10-15% usage while decoding MPEG2 and about 3-5% decoding H.264 on my Radeon 3870.

Cool. I'll have to give Directshow Filter Manager a whirl in Vista x64 then. I had it on an XP machine but I thought it was not supported in Vista.

Have you tried the Microsoft MPEG-2 Decoder in SageTV? If so did you get poor performance like I got?

Right now I only have PDVD7 that came with my Blu-ray drive. I wonder if there would be improvement using PDVD8 vs. PDVD7.

Can you connect to remote graph with SageTV in graphedit? Or do you just view the dubug log to verify what is being used?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by T^2

Cool. I'll have to give Directshow Filter Manager a whirl in Vista x64 then. I had it on an XP machine but I thought it was not supported in Vista.

Have you tried the Microsoft MPEG-2 Decoder in SageTV? If so did you get poor performance like I got?

Right now I only have PDVD7 that came with my Blu-ray drive. I wonder if there would be improvement using PDVD8 vs. PDVD7.

Can you connect to remote graph with SageTV in graphedit? Or do you just view the dubug log to verify what is being used?

I just use the debug log. The annoying part about getting the filters right is that every time you make a change to the merits you need to reboot. On my full client I used a combination of DSFMgr and GraphEdit to make sure the correct filters were chosen by default for both MPEG2 and H.264 videos. I set always_use_dshow_player=true in my client properties. Made sure that the Cyberlink decoders and AC3Filter were set to the highest merits. My SageTV Client would crash after playback stopped if I used any other audio filters. I also had to set the audio renderer to "waveout". I could not get audio any other way. Also, if you are playing back any MKV files make sure you have Haali Media Splitter installed.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by T^2

Can you remote connect to a SageTV graph with graphedit?

no.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I just use the debug log. The annoying part about getting the filters right is that every time you make a change to the merits you need to reboot.

logging off works too.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by babgvant

logging off works too.

hmmm... that I didn't know.