HD100 power supply repair

[gplasky]

I don't know. The new title seems more descriptive. And I'm pretty sure Jeff wasn't dragged, let alone kicking and screaming. I think he was preparing an answer and getting his ducks in a row and came back with a fair solution. And the repair program is now LESS expensive then when first pitched. If that's what it takes for you to leave a product-a solution to a problem-well don't let the door hit your a...head on the way out. (Because that's what you're thinking with)

Gerry

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

...

But they all suffered from bad audio sync issues when playing HD-pvr files. After 10 minutes and 9 new caps replaced later, all of them play the files perfectly. It was like a light switch !


Has anyone else noticed playback issues with failing caps ?

I had forgotten about it, but I am pretty sure I had the same symptoms. I have not had any sync issues since I replaced the caps.

Wayne

[paulbeers]

Hey Gerry -

Is it just me or with the increased popularity of Sage, does there seem to be a lot more trolls on these forums these days? Is the HD100 perfect? Nope, but have I had a problem with any of the 3 I bought last year? Not one. 1 is at my parents house and 2 are at mine and all 3 run fine.

And no, maybe at first Sage wasn't prepared to fix the HD100's. They are still a fairly small company (heck my HD200 that I just received still had George's name as the sender on it!). I am sure at first they didn't want to deal with the headaches associated with fixing the HD100's, but realizing that was going to lose a lot of good will they started a repair program and then even reduced the cost when they realized how cheap they could usually fix them.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

And no, maybe at first Sage wasn't prepared to fix the HD100's. They are still a fairly small company (heck my HD200 that I just received still had George's name as the sender on it!). I am sure at first they didn't want to deal with the headaches associated with fixing the HD100's, but realizing that was going to lose a lot of good will they started a repair program and then even reduced the cost when they realized how cheap they could usually fix them.

I work for a small company as well. We've had a few problems like this, and we've always fixed the issues by repairing or replacing the defective components free of charge, regardless of the warranty period. I *do* work for a company that sells high end server equipment, but this practice seems common in the CE space as well. For example, Silicon Dust seems to be shipping new power supplies for their failed HDHR PSUs for free.

I really object to being labeled a troll, I'm just not at all happy with how they handled this. I've been pretty happy with my HD100, and had been happily recommending SageTV to friends, and helping others occasionally in the Linux forum. I was about to order an HD200 for our next HD TV. But their ham fisted approach to spinning this issue (denial, locking threads, renaming threads, even forbidding certain forum members from posting on the issue) has just pushed me over the edge. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've had a while to cool off, but I doubt it.

Drew

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Hey Gerry -

Is it just me or with the increased popularity of Sage, does there seem to be a lot more trolls on these forums these days? Is the HD100 perfect? Nope, but have I had a problem with any of the 3 I bought last year? Not one. 1 is at my parents house and 2 are at mine and all 3 run fine.

And no, maybe at first Sage wasn't prepared to fix the HD100's. They are still a fairly small company (heck my HD200 that I just received still had George's name as the sender on it!). I am sure at first they didn't want to deal with the headaches associated with fixing the HD100's, but realizing that was going to lose a lot of good will they started a repair program and then even reduced the cost when they realized how cheap they could usually fix them.

Originally Posted by drewg

I work for a small company as well. We've had a few problems like this, and we've always fixed the issues by repairing or replacing the defective components free of charge, regardless of the warranty period. I *do* work for a company that sells high end server equipment, but this practice seems common in the CE space as well. For example, Silicon Dust seems to be shipping new power supplies for their failed HDHR PSUs for free.

I really object to being labeled a troll, I'm just not at all happy with how they handled this. I've been pretty happy with my HD100, and had been happily recommending SageTV to friends, and helping others occasionally in the Linux forum. I was about to order an HD200 for our next HD TV. But their ham fisted approach to spinning this issue (denial, locking threads, renaming threads, even forbidding certain forum members from posting on the issue) has just pushed me over the edge. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've had a while to cool off, but I doubt it.

Drew

Different companies will choose to handle these issues with what makes the most sense for their business. And I don't have a problem with that. At this point SageTV charges about $40 to repair and ship back. I think that's fair to them. SiliconDust shipped free replacement power supplies because they had their supplier replace all the ones they had with new ones no charge.

By the same token I just had a signal strength problem with my original HDHR bought from when SiliconDust first made them. Way out of warranty by years. But after 3 days of troubleshooting and diagnosing logs off their support server they agreed there was definitely a problem. So they asked me to RMA it and would replace it with a new one for $75. Great. But I don't expect Sage and SiliconDust to institute the same policy for defective or broken equipment.

Now as far as locking or closing a thread I think they felt that thread served its purpose. It was closed with a link to the repair policy. And so another thread was created whose only purpose is to announce to the world when their HD100 has died. Personally I feel it's a waste of a thread. That thread could continue to have posts in it for the next 3 years with nothing more than a "me too" reason for even posting. I know someone was keeping track but that could have been done with a PM to that person. I don't know-when it's all said and done I guess we can look back and say "oh look-X number of HD100's died over the past x number of years." This is about a product that manufacturing of it stopped almost a year ago. Sorry but I can find more important things to do. That thread should just go the same way as the HD100 capacitors.

Gerry

[larryf]

If your local Radio Shack does not have these capacitors, I found them at parts-express.com ... and even cheaper on ebay. do a search for "1000uf" 35v and "1000 uf" 35v to see them all (note the space, ebay's search engine is not that good). 4.82 for 4 caps including shipping. that seller is in Romania but has 100% feedback. I can wait for the parts, my HD100 is just starting to act up.

As always, buyer beware...

Larry

[sic0048]

Isn't buying no name caps on EBay pretty much ensuring you will have to go through this process in another 12mo when the "new" caps fail too?

You might want to buy 2-3 sets of spares and save shipping.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by sic0048

Isn't buying no name caps on EBay pretty much ensuring you will have to go through this process in another 12mo when the "new" caps fail too?

You might want to buy 2-3 sets of spares and save shipping.

Well, Fujicon doesn't seem to be a 'no name', I googled 'fujicon capacitor' and got 72,000 hits. It does seem to be a high temperature cap, rated at 105C. At less than $5 for 4 caps, I took a chance and I'll let you know in a year or two if it worked well .

For some reason, I forgot to check Mouser... and just found them there for 15 cents a piece! Not sure if they have a minimum order, but I don't believe they gouge you on shipping like other companies do.

Larry

[MH2006]

Hissing sound drove me to the forums, found this thread...awesome. I have a question...I can extract some 1000uf 16V caps from an old Socket A motherboard, would those be compatible? The radioshack part is a 1000uF 32V cap, however, from the cocoontech how-to, the old bad caps are 1000uF 10V parts so that made me think 16V might work. Anyone know?

[mtyme]

Should be fine.

[MikeW]

Purchased HD100 in 6/08 and noticed today that the red light was blinking. Unplugged unit, plugged it back in and same problem. Immediately came to this forum and quickly find that I have a power supply failure. Of course this happens one month past my warranty period. As I was reading the threads on this issue I was hoping to find out that SageTV would extend the warranty period on the power supply issue only like other companies do in this situation. It's obvious that this failure is due to sub-standard components in the power supply and a FREE replacement PS should be sent out or fixed for maybe a small shipping charge. I had the same problem on a ReadyNAS which was out of warranty, but they stepped up to the plate and corrected the situation by sending out free replacement power supplies even after the warranty expired.

Anyway, I'm glad I found these threads and I'm fortunate enough to be able to perform the capacitor replacement myself, but after reading the responses by SageTV employee(s) I'm done with this company.

Thanks to everyone who put their time into debugging the problem and detailing the DIY fix.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by MikeW

Purchased HD100 in 6/08 and noticed today that the red light was blinking. Unplugged unit, plugged it back in and same problem. Immediately came to this forum and quickly find that I have a power supply failure. Of course this happens one month past my warranty period. As I was reading the threads on this issue I was hoping to find out that SageTV would extend the warranty period on the power supply issue only like other companies do in this situation. It's obvious that this failure is due to sub-standard components in the power supply and a FREE replacement PS should be sent out or fixed for maybe a small shipping charge. I had the same problem on a ReadyNAS which was out of warranty, but they stepped up to the plate and corrected the situation by sending out free replacement power supplies even after the warranty expired.

Anyway, I'm glad I found these threads and I'm fortunate enough to be able to perform the capacitor replacement myself, but after reading the responses by SageTV employee(s) I'm done with this company.

I've tried to stay out of this, but I believe you are basing those comments on other people's previous postings that are based purely on their own speculation (i.e.: made up numbers) rather than on actual facts. SageTV is aware of how many units have had problems and the actual numbers of units sold. I have seen repeated comments from people claiming some sort of high percentage of the units have failed. SageTV has stated that this is not true (again: based on their knowledge of actual numbers of failed units reported and numbers of units sold), yet even after SageTV has posted about it, some people continue to claim that SageTV is lying and then spout their own made-up numbers as if their fake numbers provide some sort of proof. It gets old hearing the same people repeatedly claim 5% failures (or was it 10%? I didn't look up the posts before writing this) when the actual numbers aren't near that. SageTV has never posted sales figures, so how can any type of percentage be calculated by someone who doesn't know the number sold?

I can understand that it is annoying to have a unit that needs a repair. (That happens with any type of product -- I just ran into a $250 repair on a $1000 item out of warranty.) But, the 1 year warranty was stated up front at the time of purchase. Units within the warranty period are repaired w/o a fee by SageTV.

SageTV has offered to repair the HD100 for a fee when the unit is outside its 1-year warranty. Then, when they were able to repair this specific problem at a lower cost, they reduced the cost of the repair. Yet, there are still posts complaining how poorly SageTV is acting regarding repairs -- I really don't understand how someone could expect a lifetime warranty on anything after having been told right from the start that the warranty is 1-year, then complain that they aren't being treated fairly if something happens after the 1-year term is over.



And, to back up a few posts: The title of this topic was changed to make it more obvious to readers looking for an option for doing a repair themselves. (The option for SageTV to perform a repair is already in the extender FAQ topic.) However, if this topic starts turning into another gripe session claiming lies on SageTV's part, it will either be closed or the posts claiming some sort of conspiracy will be removed. It seems like no matter what SageTV says, the comment has either been claimed to be false or parsed to supposedly contain meaning that wasn't part of what SageTV said. A company has the right to defend itself against false claims and those false claims aren't going to be ignored any more, lest it appear that ignoring the false claims lends some sort of credence to them.

- Andy

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I've tried to stay out of this, but I believe you are basing those comments on other people's previous postings that are based purely on their own speculation (i.e.: made up numbers) rather than on actual facts. SageTV is aware of how many units have had problems and the actual numbers of units sold. I have seen repeated comments from people claiming some sort of high percentage of the units have failed. SageTV has stated that this is not true (again: based on their knowledge of actual numbers of failed units reported and numbers of units sold), yet even after SageTV has posted about it, some people continue to claim that SageTV is lying and then spout their own made-up numbers as if their fake numbers provide some sort of proof. It gets old hearing the same people repeatedly claim 5% failures (or was it 10%? I didn't look up the posts before writing this) when the actual numbers aren't near that. SageTV has never posted sales figures, so how can any type of percentage be calculated by someone who doesn't know the number sold?

Well said Opus. I want to point out again that all three of my HD100's are still working flawlessly. Two of which have been heavily used since Feb 2008 and one I purchased in Aug 2008.

Further, I want to point out that as is the case with many 1st generation hardware, there can be bugs. Look at the automobile industry. I refuse to buy the first model year of any new vehicle as they seem to have issues with longevity and no you don't get an extended warranty just because your 1st model year *insert model/make here* has documented issues.

Just my .02 worth.

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I've tried to stay out of this, but I believe you are basing those comments on other people's previous postings that are based purely on their own speculation (i.e.: made up numbers) rather than on actual facts. SageTV is aware of how many units have had problems and the actual numbers of units sold. I have seen repeated comments from people claiming some sort of high percentage of the units have failed. SageTV has stated that this is not true (again: based on their knowledge of actual numbers of failed units reported and numbers of units sold), yet even after SageTV has posted about it, some people continue to claim that SageTV is lying and then spout their own made-up numbers as if their fake numbers provide some sort of proof. It gets old hearing the same people repeatedly claim 5% failures (or was it 10%? I didn't look up the posts before writing this) when the actual numbers aren't near that. SageTV has never posted sales figures, so how can any type of percentage be calculated by someone who doesn't know the number sold?

I can understand that it is annoying to have a unit that needs a repair. (That happens with any type of product -- I just ran into a $250 repair on a $1000 item out of warranty.) But, the 1 year warranty was stated up front at the time of purchase. Units within the warranty period are repaired w/o a fee by SageTV.

SageTV has offered to repair the HD100 for a fee when the unit is outside its 1-year warranty. Then, when they were able to repair this specific problem at a lower cost, they reduced the cost of the repair. Yet, there are still posts complaining how poorly SageTV is acting regarding repairs -- I really don't understand how someone could expect a lifetime warranty on anything after having been told right from the start that the warranty is 1-year, then complain that they aren't being treated fairly if something happens after the 1-year term is over.



And, to back up a few posts: The title of this topic was changed to make it more obvious to readers looking for an option for doing a repair themselves. (The option for SageTV to perform a repair is already in the extender FAQ topic.) However, if this topic starts turning into another gripe session claiming lies on SageTV's part, it will either be closed or the posts claiming some sort of conspiracy will be removed. It seems like no matter what SageTV says, the comment has either been claimed to be false or parsed to supposedly contain meaning that wasn't part of what SageTV said. A company has the right to defend itself against false claims and those false claims aren't going to be ignored any more, lest it appear that ignoring the false claims lends some sort of credence to them.

- Andy

I'm not claiming that Sage has lied about anything. The biggest disappointment for me has been the responses from the company. I have seen how other companies have dealt with this exact same issue (bad caps in the power supply) and I've had this exact same issue in several products that I own. The ones who handle it to my satisfaction continue to earn my business and the ones who don't won't get anymore money from me.

I'm sure that Sage thinks they're going far enough to resolve this issue and for some people it's true. I'm just not one of them.

[briands]

I don't understand the sentiment here... are people really going to give up this great product (remember there were alternatives when you came to Sage as a customer) simply because they may have to pay a reasonable price (only about 20% of the cost of replacing the unit) for out of warranty service on a sub component in one of the parts of the system?

Here you have a company honoring their warranty and even providing service at a very reasonable price after the warranty period has expired on a product that has been replaced in their product line. I don't really like it when things break down either, but I do recognize that it will happen and if the product has exceeded it's warranty that it will be my responsibility to fix it.

I don't have a problem with people communicating that they have had a failure and letting other people know so they may steer clear of a product if they can not tolerate the risk of the failure. What I don't get is the expectation that the company should go beyond their commitment to remedy the situation. The severity of this failure is fairly minor - (imagine if the Micro was toasted instead and you now had a non-repairable paper weight). I suspect if it were a more sever issue or at a very high rate, Sage may choose to more aggressively pursue brand protection/ customer retention measures, but that is a business decision for them, they have no obligation.

I'm sure the device could be engineered out of more reliable components and it would have cost more... but....hmmmm I seem to remember another thread where people were complaining that the extender cost too much.

[JetreL]

I just think we are a bit spoiled about this great product. I had this issue pop up a few weeks ago and understand that electronics are fallible. My first reaction was irritation but such is life. Overall I think sage has done a great job supporting their product during and out of warranty.

Everyone has opinions and in forums they can go every which way. Thats the great thing about forums, it gives everyone a voice positive and negative alike.

[Brent]

I think it's a bummer that some HD100 owners have experienced capacitors going bad.

But it's great that it was the capacitor and not the entire board - which is how it should work.

And it's good that SageTV is offering to repair for a reduced price even past it's warranty

And it's great that you can easily fix it yourself with some very basic soldering skills

And it's really great that the HD200's design improves the way things work so it won't have this same problem.

I understand the frustration, but that's just the way it is.

[merneric]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I've tried to stay out of this, but I believe you are basing those comments on other people's previous postings that are based purely on their own speculation (i.e.: made up numbers) rather than on actual facts. SageTV is aware of how many units have had problems and the actual numbers of units sold. I have seen repeated comments from people claiming some sort of high percentage of the units have failed. SageTV has stated that this is not true (again: based on their knowledge of actual numbers of failed units reported and numbers of units sold), yet even after SageTV has posted about it, some people continue to claim that SageTV is lying and then spout their own made-up numbers as if their fake numbers provide some sort of proof. It gets old hearing the same people repeatedly claim 5% failures (or was it 10%? I didn't look up the posts before writing this) when the actual numbers aren't near that. SageTV has never posted sales figures, so how can any type of percentage be calculated by someone who doesn't know the number sold?

Wow. Ok, first of all, I DID go back and actually look through the threads. There are two that I know of that address this issue:
Unless there are more that I am unaware of, then all I can say is talk about propagating misinformation…

First, while it is true that some in the original thread speculated as to what the failure rate might have been/is, I did not read of anyone that actually accused SageTV of a 5% or 10% failure rate, and certainly not on a repetitive basis (unless those posts have been deleted). Someone did mention that it was normal for 1st gen electronics products to have as high as a 15% failure rate, but that was not directed to SageTV specifically, and it was quickly dismissed as being irrelevant to this particular situation.

Second, As this paragraph so lucidly states, no one except SageTV has any idea what the actual numbers are since by your own admission, SageTV has never posted sales figures, so in the wake of NO information to go on, all people can do is…”speculate.” Again, I am not sure what the big secret is, perhaps they don’t want their competition to know just what their actual sales volume is (whether it be high or low), but whatever, without all of the facts clearly laid out on the table, I’m sorry, but they, like any other super secretive company, lay themselves open to some criticism, and yes, speculation. The only thing “official” we have heard is that the failure rate is a little over 1%. So, if this is the case, and I claim neither tacit acquiescence nor dubious skepticism to this statement, then we can “deduce” that since at least >33 units have failed as per reports in the forums, that SageTV has sold at least 100 x 33 = 3300 units. Of course, this is based just on what users have reported in the forums, so I have to make the assumption that they are accurate. The only failures I can personally testify 100% to are the 2 out of 3 HD-100 units that are in my home (as the second one just went bad a few days ago.)

Finally, and this is just an observation. There seems to be three types of people on the forums. Group 1: Those that post a lot, are extremely active, have obviously invested years in to SageTV. Unfortunately, many (not all) of these folks seem to have an overwhelming urge to squelch anyone who has any sort of criticism regarding SageTV, no matter how trivial or how relevant. Group 2: Those that mostly “lurk,” reading most of the posts, and trying to keep up to date, but that post very infrequently. I would probably fit into this group, although that seems to be slowly changing. Group 3: Those that may check the forums occasionally, mainly just to troubleshoot a problem, or to see if there are any new updates. This is “probably” the majority of SageTV users. The disturbing thing here, is that this response seemed to be directed at a guy that was clearly in Group 3, someone that discovered a problem, went to the forums to see if anyone else had the same, delved through the various posts, and then came to a conclusion that the said folks in Group 1 did not like, and so, has been vehemently attacked for it.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again. I love the SageTV product, and the capability that it has. I hope to be able to sit down and learn the SageTV APIs, and Sage Studio, and try to develop some cool add ons myself someday. That said, my wife absolutely HATES Sage (in fact, to her, SAGE is a four-letter word, and not a nice one), and rues the day that I first introduced it into our household…not exactly SageTV’s fault, due to my constant tweaking, upgrading, etc…but the 2 out of 3 dead extenders did not help. Regardless, I find myself, constanly defending SageTV to my wife (and my kids at times), however, I too, am in this for the long haul, but when I see what seem to be somewhat blind, extremely biased, and (borderline paranoid) self-delusional statements made by the SageTV defenders, it concerns me a bit. And I must say, that statements such as,

Originally Posted by Opus4

if this topic starts turning into another gripe session claiming lies on SageTV's part, it will either be closed or the posts claiming some sort of conspiracy will be removed,”

and

Originally Posted by Opus4

A company has the right to defend itself against false claims and those false claims aren't going to be ignored any more, lest it appear that ignoring the false claims lends some sort of credence to them,”

I find especially disturbing, as I don’t recall anyone blatantly claiming that SageTV lied, cheated, or stole from anyone. On the contrary, this seems to be an unveiled threat to remove or close a thread, simply because someone deigns to criticize SageTV. Again, IMO, not exactly the best way to interface with your customers nor the best way to promote free and open communication and dialog. So please, SageTV veterans out there, how about a little more introspection and objectivity?

[Brent]

Group 1: Those that post a lot, are extremely active, have obviously invested years in to SageTV. Unfortunately, many (not all) of these folks seem to have an overwhelming urge to squelch anyone who has any sort of criticism regarding SageTV, no matter how trivial or how relevant.

I guess I might fall into that grouping. But I have no problem criticizing the company (SageTV) where I find it a valid criticism. In this case I definitely do not. I am getting annoyed by the silly charges and accusations though and eventually respond as such.

but when I see what seem to be somewhat blind, extremely biased, and (borderline paranoid) self-delusional statements made by the SageTV defenders, it concerns me a bit.

That right there is the perfect example of what annoys me. That statement is a bunch of bunk. If there are people you see as "SageTV defenders" perhaps those people are expressing their opinion on the subject and just because it doesn't match up with your opinion does not make them a "defender" or wrong. Sheez

[merneric]

Brent, sorry that you feel that way, because I have a lot of respect for you as well (as I do for SageTV). I have visited your website VERY Frequently, and you have taught me a lot, and have really helped to get my system up to speed.

All flattery aside, though, when you say something like:

Originally Posted by Brent

If there are people you see as "SageTV defenders" perhaps those people are expressing their opinion on the subject and just because it doesn't match up with your opinion does not make them a "defender" or wrong. Sheez

You sort of make the point for me, as I thought I made it clear that I in no way disrespect anyone's opinion, but that rather, I welcome ALL opinions be they good or bad. What I do disagree with though, is criticizing posters simply because they seem to have some sort of issue or criticism with SageTV in and of itself, especially coming from someone that is in-arguably one of the more prominent "spokespersons" of the company," albeit in an unofficial capacity (i.e. Opus4).

So again, sorry if you take offense to being categorized as a "SageTV defender." I can tell you though, that in my household, I am nothing but a "SageTV defender." Still, I guess what irritates me about your irritation, and most of the other posters on this subject, is that for the most part people seem to be unwilling to look at this from both sides. For example, you have stated that you have had no issues with your HD-100 extender(s?), so therefore, you don't consider it to be a big deal. But I can tell you that for me, and for the 30+ other, and what seemed to be a growing number of other people out there, it IS a big deal. Yet, when people voice concern, which yes, may understandably boil into palpable frustration on the forums, they are ridiculed, insulted, and mis-characterized as conspiracy mongers, and of making up wild charges and accusations. And although you did voice some empathy for this (and I do appreciate that), most have not. I just do not see where people can infer that by reporting A. Hey, my HD-100 just died, and B. Hey, other companies that I have dealt with would have taken care of this for free, but SageTV decided to charge XX for repairs, and I don't like it, etc, etc as some sort of wild slanderous conspiratorial accusation...