Questions re: SageTV with Bell ExpressVu, general HTPC

[bithead]

To all of the HTPC & SageTV experts out there... I have been researching the seemingly endless options when it comes to HTPC’s and have compiled a number of questions for you. I’ve posted this to the Canadian thread, but I suspect some of these questions might be better served by being posed in a more general thread. The problem is that there are some very specific Canadian – specifically Bell ExpressVu – questions that, if don’t come back positively, I might as well forget it.

Here we go...

I currently have an older ExpressVu box but am planning to upgrade to the 6131. (The 6131 supports HD programming as well as analog/composite output for “standard” programming. I plan on using analog/composite programming until I can afford to upgrade to an HD TV and subscription.) The 6131 has composite L/R and video outputs, S-Video Out, Component Video Out, as well as optical digital (audio?) & HDMI Outputs. As I said, I plan on using analog/composite and/or S-Video for now.

i) Any issues using SageTV to obtain ExpressVu scheduled programming? How does it know which channels I subscribe to? (The ExpressVu box automatically filters them for me.) Do I need to use the DigiCasa plug-in?

ii) Any success/experience controlling an ExpressVu 6131 box (or ANY ExpressVu box for that matter) and, if so, did you use the IR Blaster method? A more generic question would be…if a satellite box is “unknown” to SageTV, is there a way to teach it the commands using the original satellite box remote control? Will I need the USB-UIRT? I’ve read that perhaps I’ll also need the 56KHz version of this device. If I need the USB-UIRT, do I need any other hardware/software?

iii) I’ve read that casual channel surfing can be challenging when using the IR Blaster method. Is this true?

iv) As far as internal capture cards go, the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 seems appropriate. On-board video processing, composite/s-video input. And a remote that is compatible with SageTV, and an IR blaster that is fully compatible with my Expressvu 6131 (removing the need for a USB-UIRT)?

v) I assume I’ll need an HDMI-capable capture card when I eventually move to HD, correct? HD capture cards I’ve seen so far have coax inputs which seems inconsistent with the ExpressVu outputs (HDMI connector), and HD TV connections in general. :confused face: There is no over-the-air HD in Canada so perhaps this is why. Anyone care to clarify for me?

vi) Any particular video card you would recommend? (I plan on moving to HD at a later date, but I’m OK with buying another video card later if I have to.) I assume a composite or s-video output from virtually any new video card would suffice. Are there HD & s-video video cards that you’d recommend (if they even exist)?

vii) I’d like 5.1 surround to pass through to my 5.1 sound system. Any recommendations to ensure this happens, or is it a non-issue? Right now, I have RCA L/R out of the old ExpressVu box, going to my DVD Recorder, which outputs optical audio to my 5.1 sound system. Will the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 continue to pass 5.1-encoded L/R, through to SageTV, and then out of my sound card without issue?

viii) Are there any limitations to the size of the .JPG’s SageTV can display? Are there any search/indexing functions in SageTV that I could take advantage of by populating certain fields/properties of the .JPG files?

ix) I have some MPEG-2 video (.mpg) and raw AVI/DV content (.avi) of home videos, etc. that I will be going through and creating individual video files for. (Much like you might create chapters/menus on a DVD.) These files will make up my home video library, and I plan on using SageTV to search for, and view these videos.
- Should I use H.264 as my target format and, if so, should I use the DivX 7 implementation of this standard? Why/Why not? (My video editing software doesn’t produce H.264 output so I was considering writing out the highest possible quality (i.e. AVI/DV) and using the DivX 7 Converter to create .mkv files.)
- Are there any search/indexing functions in SageTV that I could take advantage of by populating certain fields/properties of the video files?

[pawn]

Originally Posted by bithead

To all of the HTPC & SageTV experts out there... I have been researching the seemingly endless options when it comes to HTPC’s and have compiled a number of questions for you. I’ve posted this to the Canadian thread, but I suspect some of these questions might be better served by being posed in a more general thread. The problem is that there are some very specific Canadian – specifically Bell ExpressVu – questions that, if don’t come back positively, I might as well forget it.

Here we go...

I currently have an older ExpressVu box but am planning to upgrade to the 6131. (The 6131 supports HD programming as well as analog/composite output for “standard” programming. I plan on using analog/composite programming until I can afford to upgrade to an HD TV and subscription.) The 6131 has composite L/R and video outputs, S-Video Out, Component Video Out, as well as optical digital (audio?) & HDMI Outputs. As I said, I plan on using analog/composite and/or S-Video for now.

Not going to get in your business too much, but I can't understand why you'd bother with upgrading to the HD sat box and use composite or s-video output. Either way, here's my responses...

i) Any issues using SageTV to obtain ExpressVu scheduled programming? How does it know which channels I subscribe to? (The ExpressVu box automatically filters them for me.) Do I need to use the DigiCasa plug-in?

Sage has programming data for all Canadian carriers. You just specify what carrier you use when you set up Sage. Then you can go through and deselect all channels you don't subscribe to. This is *very* important for Expressvu, since, as you must already know, a dialog box comes up on the sat receiver saying "Press Up or Down To Continue" when you tune a channel you don't subscribe to. This will mess up your system, since Sage can't switch channels while this dialog is up. There are workarounds, but your best bet is to stay on top of making sure you only have the channels you need in your Sage guide. Be advised Sage adds new channels automatically if the carrier adds channels, so again, be on top of it.

ii) Any success/experience controlling an ExpressVu 6131 box (or ANY ExpressVu box for that matter) and, if so, did you use the IR Blaster method? A more generic question would be…if a satellite box is “unknown” to SageTV, is there a way to teach it the commands using the original satellite box remote control? Will I need the USB-UIRT? I’ve read that perhaps I’ll also need the 56KHz version of this device. If I need the USB-UIRT, do I need any other hardware/software?

I use the blaster method. Get a USB-UIRT. It works well with my 6100 receivers. And yes, Expressvu boxes are flaky and you won't have much luck learning the remote. I don;t think Sage comes with an IR file for your proposed receiver (it does have an IR file that works with the older expressvu boxes). You may want to make sure that sat receiver doesn't use an RF remote, since you can;t use an IR blaster for those.

iii) I’ve read that casual channel surfing can be challenging when using the IR Blaster method. Is this true?

Yes, it's really too slow to surf. My system takes about 5 to 6 seconds to tune a channel. The good news is, once you get used to a full pvr setup, you probably won't want to surf.

iv) As far as internal capture cards go, the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 seems appropriate. On-board video processing, composite/s-video input. And a remote that is compatible with SageTV, and an IR blaster that is fully compatible with my Expressvu 6131 (removing the need for a USB-UIRT)?

You have no use for this card at all. It is a high definition card that cannot be used to capture high definition from a satellite box. The only option currently available to capture HD television is the external Hauppage HD PVR device. If you don't plan on doing high def for now, save your money and get one of the analog tuner cards, otherwise, bite the bullet and go with the HD PVR from the start (but then, you're going to want to capture using the including component cables, so you may as well go all the way and do HD). Even if you only have analog channels, the quality will be WAY better than if you go with an analog capture card.

v) I assume I’ll need an HDMI-capable capture card when I eventually move to HD, correct? HD capture cards I’ve seen so far have coax inputs which seems inconsistent with the ExpressVu outputs (HDMI connector), and HD TV connections in general. :confused face: There is no over-the-air HD in Canada so perhaps this is why. Anyone care to clarify for me?

Nope. See above. There is only one option available to you for HD: the HD PVR using component cables. Note that you're not alone in this, the HD PVR is pretty much the only option for getting high def from most carriers. Nothing captures from HDMI.

vi) Any particular video card you would recommend? (I plan on moving to HD at a later date, but I’m OK with buying another video card later if I have to.) I assume a composite or s-video output from virtually any new video card would suffice. Are there HD & s-video video cards that you’d recommend (if they even exist)?

So many options, hard to help. But there's no point in wasting your money on something that won't playback HD. Get a good one.

vii) I’d like 5.1 surround to pass through to my 5.1 sound system. Any recommendations to ensure this happens, or is it a non-issue? Right now, I have RCA L/R out of the old ExpressVu box, going to my DVD Recorder, which outputs optical audio to my 5.1 sound system. Will the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 continue to pass 5.1-encoded L/R, through to SageTV, and then out of my sound card without issue?

The HD PVR captures and passes on digital sound without using your sound card, with it's own cable.

viii) Are there any limitations to the size of the .JPG’s SageTV can display? Are there any search/indexing functions in SageTV that I could take advantage of by populating certain fields/properties of the .JPG files?

No idea what you're asking. Sage has numerous searching, archiving, etc., features for all of your media.

ix) I have some MPEG-2 video (.mpg) and raw AVI/DV content (.avi) of home videos, etc. that I will be going through and creating individual video files for. (Much like you might create chapters/menus on a DVD.) These files will make up my home video library, and I plan on using SageTV to search for, and view these videos.

Shouldn't be a problem. You can import all kinds of media in many, many formats.

- Should I use H.264 as my target format and, if so, should I use the DivX 7 implementation of this standard? Why/Why not? (My video editing software doesn’t produce H.264 output so I was considering writing out the highest possible quality (i.e. AVI/DV) and using the DivX 7 Converter to create .mkv files.)

I'm not that versed in DivX, etc. Sage can handle h.264. In fact, that's the format the HD PVR saves to.

- Are there any search/indexing functions in SageTV that I could take advantage of by populating certain fields/properties of the video files?

See above re. JPG's.

Disclaimer: setting up the HD PVR can be a bit of a chore for some people. Try searching around here to see some of the problems people have had. Most people report no problems, but if you have them, they suck.

[bithead]

Originally Posted by pawn

Not going to get in your business too much, but I can't understand why you'd bother with upgrading to the HD sat box and use composite or s-video output. Either way, here's my responses...

Yeah, I should have explained that - I'm having problems with the power button on the older model, plus the remote is on the blink. Remotes cost almost as much as a new box. :O

Originally Posted by pawn

The only option currently available to capture HD television is the external Hauppage HD PVR device. If you don't plan on doing high def for now, save your money and get one of the analog tuner cards, otherwise, bite the bullet and go with the HD PVR from the start (but then, you're going to want to capture using the including component cables, so you may as well go all the way and do HD). Even if you only have analog channels, the quality will be WAY better than if you go with an analog capture card.

I'll check this out, thanks!

Originally Posted by pawn

No idea what you're asking. Sage has numerous searching, archiving, etc., features for all of your media.

I'll do some more research on these features, thanks.

Thanks for your informative response pawn.

[pawn]

Originally Posted by bithead

Yeah, I should have explained that - I'm having problems with the power button on the older model, plus the remote is on the blink. Remotes cost almost as much as a new box. :O



I'll check this out, thanks!


I'll do some more research on these features, thanks.

Thanks for your informative response pawn.

Clarification: I forgot to mention, no, Sage doesn't come with an IR file for those receivers, but you can still find one around the forums or send me a PM and I'll give you the one I have (works for 6100 receivers).

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by pawn

I use the blaster method. Get a USB-UIRT. It works well with my 6100 receivers. And yes, Expressvu boxes are flaky and you won't have much luck learning the remote. I don;t think Sage comes with an IR file for your proposed receiver (it does have an IR file that works with the older expressvu boxes). You may want to make sure that sat receiver doesn't use an RF remote, since you can;t use an IR blaster for those.

bithead,

The only thing I'll add is that, if you want, buy the USB-UIRT with the 56 KHz receiver in it. By getting one that receives 56 KHz, you can use it through Sage and program the BellTV/ExpressVu remote codes to your heart's content with your ExpressVu remotes. No need to rely on an IR file from the internet. They are just $5 more than the standard USB-UIRT. That's the one I bought and it worked great for programming the remotes using two different ExpressVu remote addresses so the same USB-UIRT can control both 6131s without the need for any additional emitters/masking.

As for the HD-PVRs, I've gone from having 4 receivers around the house ( 3500, 4700, 5800, and 9200) to just two 6141s and two HD-PVRs. It generally works great, but I find the HD-PVRs lock up after about a week's worth of use, so I turn them off and on every Sunday. Some people have automated this. Don't think I can blame Sage for the HD-PVR problem, as I can turn the HD-PVRs off and back on to fix them without restarting my server or Sage....

- Steve

[Tikker]

just out of curiosity, when you upgrade your satellite boxes, why not just attach an external HDD to them? with expressvu this enables the pvr software on the boxes themselves

[Fuzzy]

Aren't the bell boxes basically dish network boxes? I'm pretty sure they at least share the same remote. If that is the case, you should be able to use anyone dish network .IR files. (I've got Address 1, 2 and I think 3 captured at home and can post in the morning).

[Skiier__Dude]

Yes, the ExpressVu boxes are just rebadged DishNet boxes so the Sage IR codes for the DishNet boxes work perfectly with the ExpressVu ones.

I've been using Sage and ExpressVu boxes together now for over 4 years and here's my advice...

1. Use WHS for your server and make it headless 2-4Gb of RAM, SATA drives and a multi-core processor. I've used 3 different servers for Sage and this one by a landslide is the most reliable. I just never touch the thing.

2. Use the HD-200 media extenders for playback and don't use client PCs for family viewing. They are reliable, can playback almost anything and just work. Client PCs are flaky and require lots of special attention from the sysadmin in your home.

3. Buy the HDPVR and a USB-UIRT. You can get the HDPVR for $199 now. They can record both SD and HD video. You will need the latest driver from the Hauppauge site to get 5.1 audio to work with the ExpressVu STB -- but it does work. Start with just one. Get it working the way you want, and then add more in the future if your viewing requires.

4. Depending on where you live and availability of OTA-HD, consider the Silicon Dust HDHR coupled with a VHF antenna on your roof. The quality of the HD video is better and there is no subscription fee -- it's free. See the OTA-HD forums on digitalhome.ca for a listing of the available stations in your area. In general, 1-2 months of ExpressVu HD programming pays for the cost of the antenna.

Finally -- and just an option here, but to decrease the confusion of multiple remotes, consider a universal remote like the Harmony 880. One button push turns everything on/off -- they are mother-in-law and/or babysitter friendly...

[zeit0dn1]

Originally Posted by pawn

Clarification: I forgot to mention, no, Sage doesn't come with an IR file for those receivers, but you can still find one around the forums or send me a PM and I'll give you the one I have (works for 6100 receivers).

Any chance you could send me a copy of the IR file? I can't get my 6100 working...

[gtfreymann]

Originally Posted by bithead

I currently have an older ExpressVu box but am planning to upgrade to the 6131. I plan on using analog/composite programming until I can afford to upgrade to an HD TV and subscription.) The 6131 has composite L/R and video outputs, S-Video Out, Component Video Out, as well as optical digital (audio?) & HDMI Outputs. As I said, I plan on using analog/composite and/or S-Video for now.

I'm using a 3700 and a 4100 receiver. I use the SVideo out and the left/right rca audio out. Works fine. Been doing this for about 4 years now through various HTPC systems.

Originally Posted by bithead

i) Any issues using SageTV to obtain ExpressVu scheduled programming?

During setup you tell SageTV you have a satellite dish and you're using Bell Expressvu (east or west). Done. You can later go through all the channels and 'hide' the channels you don't subscribe to. Better still, when new channels are added, the System Messages will tell you. You can add the channel if you get it or simply ignore it. I love this part of SageTV! (note that there is an option in the configuration that allows you to automatically add all new channels or to notify you of the new channels and let you add them manually... I chose the later option)

Originally Posted by bithead

ii) Any success/experience controlling an ExpressVu 6131 box (or ANY ExpressVu box for that matter) and, if so, did you use the IR Blaster method?

I've always used one of the original MCE IR Transmitter/Receivers. It has a big ir/tx and a couple plugs for external transmitters. Over the various systems I've used it's been the biggest issue of completing of setup (exception was with VistaMCE) but worth the hassle. Under SageTV I'm using the LMRemote software to make this work and it easily was taught my remote codes. The hardest part was tinkering with the repeat and pauses and other settings to make it work, but once you get it working, you're done.

Originally Posted by bithead

iii) I’ve read that casual channel surfing can be challenging when using the IR Blaster method. Is this true?

There's a pause while it changes, as mentioned maybe 4-6 seconds. No biggie here.

I've used the basic Hauupage PVR-150 video capture cards to do this. Cheap. Easy. Find them on eBay. I actually bought two spares a few months ago just in case the ones I use die!

Originally Posted by bithead

vi) Any particular video card you would recommend?

NVidia...

Originally Posted by bithead

vii) I’d like 5.1 surround to pass through to my 5.1 sound system. Any recommendations to ensure this happens, or is it a non-issue?

Install the latest AC3Filter, configure, done. Don't forget to change your settings for audio to use the AC3filter too (review the link coming below).

Not so great with the Bell Expressvu content, but certainly with other files 5.1 works fine. But even with my setup, we *do* get some surround from the Bell TV.

This page was a big help for me:

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/i...ng-sagetv-v7-0

I didn't do everything suggested here, but it helped me configure AC3Filter (I didn't install FFDshow).

From your post those are the items I can personally comment on.

Enjoy!!