HD300 Review

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Suntan

I know this is always the most favored, witty comeback, but for TV season BRs having real menus makes picking the right episodes to watch in the right order much less hassle.

Obviously having full BR menus is beyond what most people want... but then that was the same argument people used against HD audio format support too.

-Suntan

No that argument is a bit different becUae adding full blu ray menus adds a significant cost to each unit hd audio is pretty standard in all new chipsets and it no added cost to bitstream from my understanding. While blu ray menu support is more than possible it still would add more cost that most users would not be happy with. Dune found that out and that is why they are now releasing a cheaper extender without menu support.

Originally Posted by cat6man

hmmm............missed that one..............can you describe how the chapter selection works?

You must have v7 installed and hit options when playing a blue ray title and the. Go to be title select. To select a different playlist/chapter.

Originally Posted by crarbo1

PLUCKYHD,
So if I understand you correctly, I would have to upgrade my server from v6.6 to v7 for my HD200 or HD300 to have this. Is that correct?

Thanks,
Chuck

I believe this was a v7 feature yes. IIRC it is in the original v7 release notes.

Originally Posted by starfire

I currently connect my HD100 to my TV via HDMI and into my (non-HDMI) AVR via optical - if I have DTS only file I need to use my AVR to hear anything.

So, the HD300 can now decode DTS and output this via stereo over HDMI to my TV and also will send the non-decoded DTS ie 5.1 to my AVR also? So I can either listen via the TV in stereo or via my AVR in 5.1?

Thanks.

Correct I have the same hookup in y bedroom optical to the reciever and hdmi to the tv and it works fine.

[bialio]

So, the HD300 can now decode DTS and output this via stereo over HDMI to my TV and also will send the non-decoded DTS ie 5.1 to my AVR also? So I can either listen via the TV in stereo or via my AVR in 5.1?

I'm not sure it will send a downmixed audio signal on one wire (HDMI) and the full 5.1 on a second (SPDIF). I think if you have it set to downmix you'll end up with a stereo (2.0) signal on all of the audio outputs......

btl.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by bialio

I'm not sure it will send a downmixed audio signal on one wire (HDMI) and the full 5.1 on a second (SPDIF). I think if you have it set to downmix you'll end up with a stereo (2.0) signal on all of the audio outputs......

btl.

Don't think so I am pretty sure it downmixes automatically if the source can't handle it. I will double check tonight but pretty sure I am getting dts out of the optical and know the hdmi is working at the same time as too channel.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Don't think so I am pretty sure it downmixes automatically if the source can't handle it. I will double check tonight but pretty sure I am getting dts out of the optical and know the hdmi is working at the same time as too channel.

With my HD100 and Dolby Digital files I get stereo via HDMI and 5.1 DD AC3 via optical so hoping the HD300 does effectively the same with DTS.

Thanks for checking

[matt91]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Sure, but why would this be a problem? If you think about it, its not much different than many other new upgrades or features that have been added over the years. I can imagine the possibility that Sage might implement Cablecard or NetFlix support in the future and say that if you want that feature, you need an HD300 (or an HD400 or whatever). Right now they say if you want to record HD, you need an HD capture card. If you want an extender with HDMI 1.3a, you need the HD300, etc.

It's also no different than what Apple has done with their iPhones. Every year they release a new phone and an update OS. They let you install the new OS on most of the old devices, which gives you some of the new features, but some stuff requires the newest hardware (like multi-tasking, voice command, etc.).

If Sage (or Apple) made the decision that any new feature had to also work on all old hardware so that things would stay "common", we would never get a lot of great new features.

As it is currently, anything I record via Sage, I can watch anywhere in my house - even on an MVP, although it may require transcoding. I realize that I wouldn't *have* to adopt a cablecard system, but I'd hate to have a situation where I (or others in the family) have to remember which shows were recorded via which tuner in order to know where to watch them.

I think that teaching them "if you want to watch streaming Netflix, you must do it in the family room" is easier than remembering the some HistoryHD show can only be watched in the family room.

[rm1759]

Originally Posted by starfire

With my HD100 and Dolby Digital files I get stereo via HDMI and 5.1 DD AC3 via optical so hoping the HD300 does effectively the same with DTS.

Thanks for checking

I am very interested in hearing of this as well. I need the spdif digital out and the downmixed out both at the same time.

[bialio]

Plucky is probably right, I'm just didn't expect it to work that way since you have to choose the audio output in the HD300 setup. But if it's automatically dumbing it down to stereo as needed all the better.

btl.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by matt91

As it is currently, anything I record via Sage, I can watch anywhere in my house - even on an MVP, although it may require transcoding. I realize that I wouldn't *have* to adopt a cablecard system, but I'd hate to have a situation where I (or others in the family) have to remember which shows were recorded via which tuner in order to know where to watch them.

The problem with this approach is that Sage can't progress beyond the limitations of the worst device in the ecosystem. Ultimately, as you note, the choice to adopt (or not) progress is up to you - why should they not provide the option for those who are willing to make the infrastructure changes necessary to make it work? Having that flexibility doesn't impact you in anyway...

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Dune found that out and that is why they are now releasing a cheaper extender without menu support.

My understanding is that the new, lower cost Dune players still have full BR menus support. Admittedly, they still come in close to $100 more than the HD300, but they do have BR menu support.

In any case, the desire here is not to argue whether the HD300 should have BR menu support or shouldn’t for a given price target. The comments where just to express that BR menu navigation is desired for more than just looking at useless extras.

...And for what it is worth, there were people opining about how the licensing costs to allow for the upgraded audio capabilities would force the price of an HD300 well above the price of the HD200, even as recently as a week or two ago...

-Suntan

[autoboy]

I actually prefer not having menu support, since it takes forever for my BD player to launch a movie. But, having an option to play the menus would be nice in some circumstances.

Most TV episode BDs I've seen have a play all playlist that will play all the episodes in a row on that disk. That's the one to rip.

So far BSG is the only one I found that didn't have the play all playlist and it was a pain to watch since I didn't know which episode came next. I just popped in the disk to my BD player and was off in 4 minutes after I finally got to the BD menus.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Suntan

My understanding is that the new, lower cost Dune players still have full BR menus support. Admittedly, they still come in close to $100 more than the HD300, but they do have BR menu support.

In any case, the desire here is not to argue whether the HD300 should have BR menu support or shouldn’t for a given price target. The comments where just to express that BR menu navigation is desired for more than just looking at useless extras.

-Suntan

I could be wrong about the Dune by I know Damian said that was one reason the cost was so high was because you have to pay big for blu ray menu support.

The biggest challenge though that the Dune players face is price. There are going to be potential customers who won’t even consider the Dune simply because it is 2-3 x the price of most other media players on the market. To remain competitive and really spread the Dune brand I believe they need to come up with a sub USD 200 player, a “Dune Lite”, to compliment their premium players. Simply by removing the Blu Ray menus (licensing cost) and some of the inputs/outputs I believe they should have no problem achieving this.

...And for what it is worth, there were people opining about how the licensing costs to allow for the upgraded audio capabilities would force the price of an HD300 well above the price of the HD200, even as recently as a week or two ago...

-Suntan

That was to add multi channel out of hd audio codecs not bitstream. That is probably why they made the choice to do bitstream to keep the cost down because it is my understanding you don't have to have a license to just send it on bitstream only when you decode it do you.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I could be wrong about the Dune by I know Damian said that was one reason the cost was so high was because you have to pay big for blu ray menu support.

Yeah, BluRay menus are a tough call. Right now I don't think there are any sub $230 players that have BluRay menus, mostly due to the licensing costs. So the big question the SageTV folks would have to ask, is the increased cost worth it to a majority of the users. I would guess that a majority of users would think it was a nice feature, but would not want to pay the increased price. The only way I see to introduce full BluRay menus would be for SageTV to create two HD300 models (HD300 and HD300XL), with the HD300XL being the higher end/higher priced model including full BluRay menus as well as other enhancements. This would be strictly on the standalone side, I don't know how it would work in extender mode, would the BluRay license have to also flow through the SageTV Media Center software (so possible cost increase there)?

[sleonard]

Sounds to me like the real solution to BD menus is for the "powers that be" to get off their high horses and quit charging exorbitant rates for the licenses.

But what do I know? It just seems strange that it is easy and cheap to play BD content but to see a menu will cost big. Kinda like going into a restaurant where all the food is 4 star quality and nearly free but they don't tell you what's available to eat or let you order unless you fork over a hefty fee.

S

[Naylia]

It's not easy and cheap to play BD content either - it's easy and cheap to play standard H.264, MPEG-2, or VC-1 video. It's only easy because AnyDVD or DVDFab have already done the hard part.

[stanger89]

The other problem with BD menus is the whole political issue of what business does a box that's not a fully-licensed BD player (with AACS and all) doing needing BD-J menu support. There's no catalog BDs on your HDD, so the only use for such a feature is in the grey market.

[derelicte1]

Has anyone asked sage about multi-channel lpcm output? I tried to submit a feature request but they haven't added the new extender to the product list.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by derelicte1

Has anyone asked sage about multi-channel lpcm output? I tried to submit a feature request but they haven't added the new extender to the product list.

I did not too long ago for the HD200 via email and the request was "passed along".

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by Naylia

It's not easy and cheap to play BD content either - it's easy and cheap to play standard H.264, MPEG-2, or VC-1 video. It's only easy because AnyDVD or DVDFab have already done the hard part.

That's for commercial BD's. I only need Sage to support unprotected BD such as the ones I hope to make out of my home videos once I get an HD video camera.

Originally Posted by stanger89

The other problem with BD menus is the whole political issue of what business does a box that's not a fully-licensed BD player (with AACS and all) doing needing BD-J menu support. There's no catalog BDs on your HDD, so the only use for such a feature is in the grey market.

Are we not allowed to turn our home videos into unprotected BD? I've made several of ours into DVD's with nice menus and all and keep the originals in a folder structure on hard drive. I'd like to think that I could move up to BD when I get an HD video camera. But if I am forced to encrypt my home vids or not allowed to make proper menu's for them then something's wrong. OTOH, if I can make unprotected BD with menus from my home video then I don't see anything suspicious with getting full support in boxes like the HD300. Except for the apparently high costs to support menus that is.

Anything to do with protected commercial DVD's or BD's is between yourself and Slysoft and need not concern Sage or what it supports.

S

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by sleonard

That's for commercial BD's. I only need Sage to support unprotected BD such as the ones I hope to make out of my home videos once I get an HD video camera.



Are we not allowed to turn our home videos into unprotected BD? I've made several of ours into DVD's with nice menus and all and keep the originals in a folder structure on hard drive. I'd like to think that I could move up to BD when I get an HD video camera. But if I am forced to encrypt my home vids or not allowed to make proper menu's for them then something's wrong. OTOH, if I can make unprotected BD with menus from my home video then I don't see anything suspicious with getting full support in boxes like the HD300. Except for the apparently high costs to support menus that is.

Anything to do with protected commercial DVD's or BD's is between yourself and Slysoft and need not concern Sage or what it supports.

S

I think it is the BD-Live part of the menu's I don't think home movies support bd-live

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I think it is the BD-Live part of the menu's I don't think home movies support bd-live

Obviously, you're not taking cool enough home movies..