HD300 Review

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But that's beside the point, beside my point at least. My point is the industry perspective...

If it were the industry perspective, why does Sage support full menus on DVDs? Why do they support parsing of ISO files when the only logical conclusion to ISO support is support of illegally ripped commercial discs.

Heck doesn't the Western Digital box player support playing DVD rips/ISOs? WD is a lot more "corporate" than a Sage or a PCH.

"The industry" seems to support playback of "unencrypted" disc structures. I don't see adding menu support for the more advanced of the two commercial disc formats as any more taboo than keeping support for the simpler of the two.

-Suntan

[nick_l]

What really concerns me is that in 11+ pages of comments (ok, I only read the first 6 then skimmed the rest) there was not one mention of Sage. I would have hoped that at least a few Engadget readers would at least know enough about Sage to mention it.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Suntan

If it were the industry perspective, why does Sage support full menus on DVDs? Why do they support parsing of ISO files when the only logical conclusion to ISO support is support of illegally ripped commercial discs.

Heck doesn't the Western Digital box player support playing DVD rips/ISOs? WD is a lot more "corporate" than a Sage or a PCH.

"The industry" seems to support playback of "unencrypted" disc structures. I don't see adding menu support for the more advanced of the two commercial disc formats as any more taboo than keeping support for the simpler of the two.

-Suntan

DVD authoring is easy at the consumer level. BD authoring is not, I think that is the primary difference.

[derelicte1]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

DVD authoring is easy at the consumer level. BD authoring is not, I think that is the primary difference.

that will change.

[Fuzzy]

possibly, but not for quite some time. i believe there are a lot more licensing issues with even writing/distributing bd-j apps.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by nick_l

What really concerns me is that in 11+ pages of comments (ok, I only read the first 6 then skimmed the rest) there was not one mention of Sage. I would have hoped that at least a few Engadget readers would at least know enough about Sage to mention it.

My comment got deleted...Engagethd is the most one sided biased reporting of most tech sites. I gave up on them long ago. If it isn't apple or WMC forget about getting any valid reviews on there.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

My comment got deleted...Engagethd is the most one sided biased reporting of most tech sites. I gave up on them long ago. If it isn't apple or WMC forget about getting any valid reviews on there.

The post they did on the HD300 was absolutely horrible, they basically tore it apart without having any knowledge about...

[nick_l]

<OT> I totally agree re. Engadget. I find the necessity to end each little review with a juvenile, snarky comment the height of unprofessional journalism. Now that they've removed the ability to down-rank commenters, there is absolutely no reason to go there. I did, however, add my two cents about the poor review as well.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Are you authoring to BDMV format? Or BDAV format? Those BD-Java menus? AFAIK, all BDs are BDMV format and most use BD-J for menus. How many people actually bother creating full-fledged menus for their home-made DVDs?

But that's beside the point, beside my point at least. My point is the industry perspective. They don't see unprotected BDs with full BD-J menus as a potential market, they see it as a vast seething underworld of pirated content that must be crushed. They have little to no interest in promoting support for Blu-ray Disc functionality outside of their narrow view of a box with a slot/tray, that plays one copy-protected disc at a time.

Welcome to the world of Blu-ray. AFAIK you can't author/sell a retail Blu-ray Disc without AACS. At one point there was a push to disable playback of un-copy-protected BDMV (ie the format with menus) formats, I don't know what came of that (hopefully it died).

I'd love to see BD-J support in Sage. I'm just not optimistic in the near term.

BD-Java actually. BD-Live is the internet-connectivity (Profile 2.0) functionality.

And now ever one kicking them self in rear for not support HD-DVD

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by dbone1026

The post they did on the HD300 was absolutely horrible, they basically tore it apart without having any knowledge about...

It's unfortunate, but it's nice to get a reference point for the quality of their analysis every once in a while

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by SHS

And now ever one kicking them self in rear for not support HD-DVD

Hey, I've still got my HD-DVD drive hooked up.. :-) Sad though, it really was the much better format.

[valnar]

It took Sony 30 years, but they finally got a format as a standard.

[impro]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Hey, I've still got my HD-DVD drive hooked up.. :-) Sad though, it really was the much better format.

Is it true if you put hd-dvd in to a regular dvd player you could watch it?
If so yes HD-DVD is a better format overall.

[impro]

Originally Posted by valnar

It took Sony 30 years, but they finally got a format as a standard.

Hahahaha
What about the walkman?
Compact Disc
3.5 inch Floppy disk
Betacam SP
Digital Betacam
Betacam SX
DVCAM
HDCAM
Memory Stick
Digital8
HDCAM SR
XDCAM
Universal Media Disc
Blu-ray Disc
and the very famous Sony Philips Digital Interface Format AKA SPDIF

And do not forget they gave us the DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY.
Do you see DCIM folder on all digital cameras? It is a sony thing as well.
Canon started making their sensors an year and a half ago and Nikon are going to follow soon.
Before that all sensors were made by sony.
O yes and who rememembers the first real flat screens CRTs were made by sony

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by impro

Is it true if you put hd-dvd in to a regular dvd player you could watch it?
If so yes HD-DVD is a better format overall.

No, but there was not complex licensing for authoring the menus, and HD-DVD drives were a FAR cry cheaper than Blu-Ray drives (the key reason I went with them first)... The external XBox360 HD-DVD drive was a quarter of the cost of even an internal BluRay drive at the time.

[impro]

Originally Posted by impro

Hahahaha
What about the walkman?
Compact Disc
3.5 inch Floppy disk
Betacam SP
Digital Betacam
Betacam SX
DVCAM
HDCAM
Memory Stick
Digital8
HDCAM SR
XDCAM
Universal Media Disc
Blu-ray Disc
and the very famous Sony Philips Digital Interface Format AKA SPDIF

And do not forget they gave us the DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY.
Do you see DCIM folder on all digital cameras? It is a sony thing as well.
Canon started making their sensors an year and a half ago and Nikon are going to follow soon.
Before that all sensors were made by sony.
O yes and who rememembers the first real flat screens CRTs were made by sony

I left out the mini disk.
Also DAT. digital audio tape.
DAT tape was used on every TV-some film and all music production from 1989 to 2002. It was revolutionary. Digital recording on a tape. you could sync with smtpe time code. WOW
Some people still use dat.
Dat IMHO was the best thing they ever invented after PORTABLE AUDIO.
I had a minidisk from 1992 till 2005 when I got my first smart phone.
The quality and size of minidisk was mind blowing.
And quality of sound can kick Ipod to the curb any time.

[valnar]

Sony also invented air and water.

Uh, I think you missed my point. I was obviously referring to Betamax. Although things like mini-CD, Memory sticks and others were certainly Sony inventions, I'd hardly call them standards to the exclusion of the competition. Blu-Ray certainly did that to HD-DVD.

Funny though, I wish Betamax killed VHS because it was better, however I liked HD-DVD much more than Blu-Ray. Two losses IMO.

[impro]

Originally Posted by valnar

Sony also invented air and water.

Uh, I think you missed my point. I was obviously referring to Betamax. Although things like mini-CD, Memory sticks and others were certainly Sony inventions, I'd hardly call them standards to the exclusion of the competition. Blu-Ray certainly did that to HD-DVD.

Funny though, I wish Betamax killed VHS because it was better, however I liked HD-DVD much more than Blu-Ray. Two losses IMO.

Are you serious?
Compact Disc
3.5 inch Floppy disk in consumer
and Beta in professional.

Everything was beta in the professional world.
VHS WAS A SHAME.
I HAD A BETA ALL MY LIFE.
Never had a VHS.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by babgvant

It's unfortunate, but it's nice to get a reference point for the quality of their analysis every once in a while

True, well I got my say in (one of the last comments on the first page of comments). Actually surprised they didn't delete my comment since I told Darren (the editor who wrote the post) to contact me if he ever needs help learning how to write lol

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by impro

Is it true if you put hd-dvd in to a regular dvd player you could watch it?
If so yes HD-DVD is a better format overall.

It was possible to make combo HD DVD/DVDs. I think there were flippers (DVD9 on one side, HD DVD 30 on the other), but I think there was also the ability to make a dual layer, single sided disc with one layer being DVD and the other being HD DVD, ie a dual layer DVD5/HD DVD15 disc.

The biggest thing for me though is HD DVD was a fully baked format from the beginning, well thought out and didn't reach too far technology/complexity wise. Even a first gen HD DVD player could (theoretically, we'll never know now) play any HD DVD that would ever be released.

BD on the other hand came out half baked and in some ways reached way to far technologically and in complexity. BD-J is an ongoing problem requiring continual firmware updates.

IMO the best solution would have been for the two camps to come together and put HD DVD's logical format (menu/file structure, copy protection, etc) on a Blu-ray Disc. We'd have had 50GB discs with hard coating, menus that work on any player (and don't take minutes to load) and less DRM problems.