SageTV Shuts Down on its own

[mdmint]

Sounds to me like consumer pressure for a cheaper PVR led Frey to offer the Blackbirds instead of 250s, and it seems pre-maturely. Hearing of lots of problems with 'em. And I don't even see Frey selling the 250 anymore. While the PVR250 cost like $40 more each, I'm VERY glad I paid for 5 PVR250s and no Blackbirds. If a resolution for the Blackbirds isn't soon, if it were me I'd request (ok I'd demand) the option of upgrading to 250s (for additional $ of course) or a refund. Yeah, if they're sold as being able to work in Sage multi-tuner config they best be able to do it or take 'em back. But that's just my buck-two-ninety-eight cents worth...(inflation don't ya know )

[beautye350]

Originally posted by mdmint
Sounds to me like consumer pressure for a cheaper PVR led Frey to offer the Blackbirds instead of 250s, and it seems pre-maturely. Hearing of lots of problems with 'em. And I don't even see Frey selling the 250 anymore. While the PVR250 cost like $40 more each, I'm VERY glad I paid for 5 PVR250s and no Blackbirds. If a resolution for the Blackbirds isn't soon, if it were me I'd request (ok I'd demand) the option of upgrading to 250s (for additional $ of course) or a refund. Yeah, if they're sold as being able to work in Sage multi-tuner config they best be able to do it or take 'em back. But that's just my buck-two-ninety-eight cents worth...(inflation don't ya know )

This was definitely NOT the answer I was hoping for from support.

I just talked to the developer and he said that there will be an attempted
fix for that in the next release. He won't be able to get you anything until
then. You can always try a different machine in the meantime to see if that
helps.

I'm starting to like your idea of upgrading, mdmint. Trust me, I would've sprung for regular 250 or 250 MCEs had anyone had a multi-tuner bundle in stock, but I figured getting it from Frey would be safe.

As it stands now and with no idea as to what this "attempted fix" will be I don't want to go through the hassle of moving my setup to another machine as I may be moving from the frying pan to the frying pan, if you know what I mean. I'm very upset now and am trying to hold my tongue. As before, if I hear anything I will post it, but to those of you have issues with multiple blackbirds...Don't hold your breath waiting on the "fix"


Regards,

Beau

[doncote0]

Developing an advanced application is complicated. The developer has a cool set of tools to use. The application works on the developer's workstation, of course.

The application then needs to be installed on a "vanilla" workstation that equals only the minimum of "software" system requirements. If the application does not work, the options are: include the differences in the install,
work around the differences in the install,
add to the list of system requirements
or redevelop the application.

If any of the differences involve a licensed component that absolutely must be used, negotiations with the licensing company must begin or the application must be redeveloped. Both of these take time.

Another difficulty exists at the hardware level and testing doesn't always reveal the problem. A Dell 865 chipset may be significantly different from an Abit chipset.

When an application does not work, it is reasonable to request an alternate solution (such as upgrading to the 250 or 250MCE or returning the product). Waiting, which we all LOVE to do, is reasonable, as long as a deadline is agreed upon--reaching the deadline without a solution results in either upgrading or some other form of compensation.

I love the application and the performance. I hate that I cannot use both of my tuners simultaneously. I will be requesting an upgrade to an alternate solution, and I am willing to pay the difference in the cost.

[nspindel]

Wow, this thread is scaring the heck out of me. I just ordered the 2 tuner/remote bundle from Frey, along w/ a client license. Spent $300 on the thing. Now I'm starting to think I made a mistake, especially after the post about them saying they won't be able to fix it until the next release. I'm a deveoper - when there's a bug, that's what a patch release is for! I'm tempted to just refuse delivery, send Frey an email saying I've returned it, and dispute the charge on my credit card. Can anyone out there please offer me some comfort as to why I shouldn't do this?

FYI, I'm running a p4 2.4 533fsb, w/ 512k cache, on asus p4b533-e mobo, w/ radeon 9500pro. Running the ati component dongle into rgb on my hitachi hdtv, even though i've got dvi - all the reading i've done seemed to indicate that powerstrip works better w/ component than dvi - i agree.

On another note, let's assume for the time being that I'm going to keep the Sage I just bought. I've been using myHTPC, with ZoomPlayer running Cyberlink PowerDVD 4, and having nothing but problems since I installed ffdshow. 2.4ghz just ain't cutting it for ffdshow. So I removed the filter in Zoom, but CPU was still spiking at 100%. Finally I uninstalled ffdshow and zoom, and then re-installed zoom. Still not working right, even playing direct through powerdvd is all screwed up. So I'm planning on uninstalling Zoom again (asking myself why I'll need it once I have Sage), and uninstalling PowerDVD as well.

Now for my question - am I better off using a different decoder than PowerDVD w/ Sage. I hear a lot of talk about Sonic, although I have to admit that I don't know much about it. I am particularly curious in knowing whether or not I need to buy the Sonic surround package, considerably more $$$, if I am using spdif out and letting my receiver do all the decoding?

I think it helps to understand goals a little bit - I'm not THAT concerned with extracting every last scintilla of video quality out of my dvd's. What I am MUCH more concerned with is having a stable, easy to use, system to run. I have a wife and kid that will kill me if this thing doesn't work right. My wife could care less about video quality - she just wants to know that it is easy to use, same for my 8 year old son. To be honest, the more I'm force to futz with all this configuration, the more I'm starting to feel the same way.

If my goal is to just run a stable Sage system, for complete HTPC - music, ripped dvd's off the hard drive, dvd's off the drive, and the obvious PVR stuff (w/ the dual roslyn's), can anyone point me in the direction of a proper configuration, if I'm willing to live w/ "normal" dvd quality, so I don't have to start w/ a bunch of filters that only seem to de-stabilize my system?

Sorry for rambling, but I'm starting to panic after reading this thread. I read the review by Brad Gilomen posted on the HTPCnews site, seemed to make this Sage 2.0 sound like PVR nirvana - worried that I am going to be highly let down w/ this $300 purchase.....

Thanks,
Neil

[mdmint]

Originally posted by nspindel
Wow, this thread is scaring the heck out of me. I just ordered the 2 tuner/remote bundle from Frey, along w/ a client license. Spent $300 on the thing. Now I'm starting to think I made a mistake, especially after the post about them saying they won't be able to fix it until the next release.

There are a number of threads reporting various promblems with multiple Roslyns. Here's another. http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...&threadid=5938
I got lucky it seems and made my PVR purchases while Frey still selling (promoting) the PVR250. For me, 4 in Server and and 5th in Client network mode rock solid. I can hammer away 5 simultanous 3.25GB/hr DVD quality records and playback something else previously recorded at the same time no problem. Doesn't help to alleviate your fears of course. Sage works fantastically, IMO, with multiple PVR250s. Just seems to be having problems with the cheaper Roslyn PVR... I'll say it again. It appears to me Frey bowed to consumer pressure to carry the cheaper PVR without fully testing it first Seeing way to many Roslyn issues it seems.

[nspindel]

Well, I guess I will give it a whirl and see how I do. I hope it works and there are no problems, but if it doesn't, I will get a full refund. People have posted about problems getting refunds from Frey. This I'm not worried about. Bought it with Citibank Gold Visa - never once had a problem with a disputed charge. If I try it and I don't like it, I'll dispute the charge. All I need to do is tell Citibank that it doesn't work. I do this for a living - if my software has a bug, my users go up in arms. If I pay $300 for a product, I expect it to work, no if's, and's, or but's about it.

Any thoughts as to my other questions - i.e. just a simple configuration that may not provide the ultimate video filtering, but will be nice and stable? This, of course, assumes that the Roslyns are stable....

[stanger89]

Well, I have no experience with the Roslyn's so the only comment I'll make is that these boards tend to cary the sum of all that's bad, and only a sprinkling of what's good. Generally people come here (and other boards) for help with a problem, not generally to sing praises, so take the info here in that context.

About decoders, no you don't need Cineplayer Surround, all you need is the $15 Cineplayer DVD Decoder Pack. For reference those are the same decoders currently used by Theatertek, proabably the most respected HTPC DVD software on the market.

[nspindel]

mdmint and stanger89, thank you both for your replies. i've been reading your posts on several threads, and have a lot of respect for the knowledge you pass on. i appreciate your responses to my inquiries.

i am somewhat tempted to bag the package that i bought, and just return it without even opening the package. then i'll go out and buy a single 250 to start out, and download the sage trial, give it a whirl, and then perhaps purchase the software only. i had assumed that frey would bundle the software with the hardware that works best with this application - serves me right for assuming.....

i also purchased the remote that they offer with this bundle. now after reading on some other forums, i'm even wondering if that was the wise move. some info here, i have a xantech system already in place - dinky link receiver attached to my tv, wired into a 791-44 connecting block, and emitters going out to my replay and hdtv cable box. works like a charm. do you know if there is any way of wiring from a xantech block into the pc? not sure if there is an 1/8" mono -> serial connection out there, and how i would go from there to having sage blast out to the cable boxes. i can wire multiple ir receivers into the xantech block, so i'd hope i could connect an ir out from the pc into the xantech.

can you comment, or suggest a forum where these issues are discussed?

thanks!

[kny3twalker]

also powerDVD cannot do VMR9 rendering
for the 15 dollars for sonic decoder pack you get spdif and VMR9 rendering ability

I use powerDVD decoders and it works fine other than the no VMR9 rendering

the only other issue is that is does not like to be mixed and matched with some decoders
but it plays fine with sonic decoder pack so go ahead and use both
I found it was the audio decoder that did not work well when used with other decoders but does fine with sonic for some reason

like
video cinemaster video decoder
audio cyberlink audio decoder

etc.....

the only thing that is offered extra about surround version of cineplayer is 5.1, 4.1 analog sound

[nspindel]

yeah, that's what i figured - i don't care about analog sound, i'm using the spdif into the receiver. harman kardon does just fine w/ it )

[stanger89]

Well about the remote, I'm using a Streamzap remote in my Sage setup, works pretty good but I'm using it with girder.

As for the IR system, I don't know mcch about xantech, but it sounds like just an IR distribution amp, in which case, what you'll probably need is a www.usbuirt.com]USB-UIRT[/URL]. It's an IR emitter (and reciever) with an external emitter port that sounds like it would connect to your xantech box. Depending on your needs, Sage may be all the SW you'd need to get it going (if you're only controlling cable boxes). If you wish to control more stuff, then you might want to look at Girder.

As for your concerns about the HW, what you could do is to email Frey with your concerns and what your options are. It's really hard to tell from this end just how many people are running multi-blackbird system and just how many are experiencing problems. Although you might want to keep an eye on this thread that just showed up. And from a very quick glance at the forums it looks like only about three users on the forum are reporting problems with Roslyns right now.

[nspindel]

The Streamzap remote is the one they bundle with Sage, so glad to hear you're happy with it!

One question on the USB-UIRT. With two tuner cards trying to talk to two cable boxes, do I need two of the UIRT's? Otherwise, how would Sage differentiate between the two boxes?

Thanks,
Neil

[stanger89]

You'll need to do a search to find out specifics, but my understanding it that the UIRT is capable of controlling up to 3 (or 4?) devices. To differentiate devices, a prefix is added to the IR codes so the UIRT knows which divice to transmit to.

Or sometimes boxes can repond to different IR codes (eg some Dishnetwork boxes) so you can just learn a different set of codes for each device and one UIRT can controll all of them.

[doncote0]

Frey Technologies has been able to reproduce the error. George (from Frey) says that the problem is believed to be a driver issue. Frey Technologies has requested Hauppauge's assistance in producing a new driver.

[justme]

Just to be clear, for people who are coming in late or whatever... You can find Frey's official stance on this issue here. This is just a direct link to Dan's post in a thread that was already referenced earlier in this thread.

[wlees]

I can see that this dual cards thing is important to a lot of people, but this thread has gone off topic - the original issue was about the way that the software seems to shut down unexpectedly for no apparent reason, and wasn't related to specific cards.

Any chance of an 'official response' to this issue? There have been suggestions that the problem only occurs in the evaluation version. It would be good to understand if that is really the case.

thanks

William

[valerio]

I posted the original message.

I can attest that after having registered the software my copy did not shut down anymore and it is working fine. I do get some TV-Out freezes every so often when skipping commercials, but other than that it is working great.

[justme]

It's a fact that there was an issue with the trial that could cause spontaneous shutdowns. I know that from an "official" source. I believe it was fixed though. So the only real questions would be if it was totally fixed and could there be an other likely causes for others to see a similiar behavior.

edit:Man I type too slow. But still valerio's info does backup my "official" source. That doesn't mean something else couldn't be there. wlees, are you seeing anything like this?

[wlees]

Yes, I've been seeing this behaviour. I downloaded a trial version two weeks ago, and it hasn't stayed running for more than 12 hours at a stretch. I'm running XP with all the latest fixes, the very latest JVM, and I've added the setting to the properties file suggested in this thread. My video card is a single Hauppage PVR350.

Yesterday I registered for the full version and applied the key. I felt very uncomfortable about doing this, when WinTV is so unreliable. But having looked carefully at alternatives, I feel WinTV is a much better match for me than the other products I;ve looked at, so I'm hoping that the problem really is just in the trial -though even if it is, it must be hurting sales quite a bit.

[justme]

Please be sure to let us(forum members) know how it works out. If the registered copy stops the spontaneous shutdowns, this is definitely something that Frey should look into again. Of course if you still get the spontaneous shutdowns with the registered copy, then I doubt you need me telling you to post.

Best of luck,
justme