Hardware and software suggestions

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

No not really. I don't want ANYTHING I'm doing on the pc to interfer with recordings. Plus I'd like to be able to switch the pc off. Whereas my sagetv I'll probably leave on all the time. Hopefully it will be a quieter device.


Yes that's small but I think I'd look for a case with an ir sensor, maybe even an LCD like my old case. I've seen mention of AsRock PCs. They look nice. But maybe I could use my old case. It's big but it does have the LCD and IR and other nice home theater features. It would probably cost a pretty penny to buy another case like that but smaller. And I do really want to use internal tuners. I'd also have room for more than 1 hd if I wanted to raid. Is there any benefit to raiding for recordings?

Here are a couple with LCD and IR. The are more HTPC than PC or server.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129054
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129046

[jnmfox]

As for what type of system I would recommend:

AMD (about $600)
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Pu...umber=11335009

Intel (about $700)
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Pu...umber=11352489

You could cut costs by removing the SSD but they are so nice, makes the system feel so much more responsive, and well worth the cost IMO.

If you already have Win 7 you can take that out of the equation and replace the case with whatever you prefer.

If you can spend more get an i5 (quad core) processor instead of the i3 (dual core).

[sTVb]

Many of us ran/have run Sage for years on older p4 hardware. As others have mentioned, if you take playback out of the equation your old hardware is probably plenty sufficient to act as a server only. Personally, I had a p4 northwood for 3+ years with a mix of internal and external(HDHR) tuners. The only real reason I ended up upgrading to an i3 was that I started comskipping and compressing recordings, which exposed the limitations of the older HW. Also, my old p4 board only had 1 SATA connector and was AGP only so it was a real dead end.

[rv55]

Actually I realised yesterday that if I go with a HD300 then I wouldn't need an ir reciever in the PC as I'd use the HD300 remote, right?

But just to help me decide which way to go, how good would the PC specs have to be to set up a computer the way I use it now? ie. with 3 internal tuners and used for recording as well as playback (that's playback to just 1 device directly). I'm assuming it is possible. Anyone already have such a system?

[jptheripper]

I have that.

Amd 2.6ghz dual with 4gb ram
9600gt 1gb video card
5 internal tuners
playback on server

And if it means anything, my sage service never crashes. But playback does.

So i am ordering an hd300 tomorrow.

[rv55]

Do you mean that if you are watching a recording while programs are being recorded, the recordings remain unaffected but playback crashes? What exactly do you mean by "crahes"? The sage front end crashes?

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

Actually I realised yesterday that if I go with a HD300 then I wouldn't need an ir reciever in the PC as I'd use the HD300 remote, right?

But just to help me decide which way to go, how good would the PC specs have to be to set up a computer the way I use it now? ie. with 3 internal tuners and used for recording as well as playback (that's playback to just 1 device directly). I'm assuming it is possible. Anyone already have such a system?

The above recommended systems would be more than enough. Although if you want 3 internal tuners you may want to go with an ATX board vs. a MicroATX.

[rv55]

I could probably afford something like that and use my old htpc case. I'll start doing a bit of price research.

What would be cool is a mobo that is designed specifically for htpcs with lots of media type connections. And quiet. It would have to be quiet. So a quiet Power supply, quiet video card and quiet cpu fan.

What technology do I look for in a video card to help with playback?

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

I could probably afford something like that and use my old htpc case. I'll start doing a bit of price research.

What would be cool is a mobo that is designed specifically for htpcs with lots of media type connections. And quiet. It would have to be quiet. So a quiet Power supply, quiet video card and quiet cpu fan.

What technology do I look for in a video card to help with playback?

What types of media type connections are you looking for on a MB?

About at quite as you can get for a PS but you are paying extra.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151097

Most well built PS (Seasonic, Corsiar, Antec) with 120mm fans are quiet. Some don't even have the fan spin-up until a specific point of load.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4217/s...c-xseries-560w

The stock heatsinks for CPUs are relatively quiet, if you want quieter you can get a large heatsink and run it without a fan.


With the new i3/i5/i7 processors you won’t need a dedicated video card.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/t...-2100-tested/7

[rv55]

There is a limitation on funds so I wouldn't go top-of-the-range but I'd be happy with any decent, quiet, big fanned PSU. I wouldn't go fanless as the psu doesn't just cool itself, it also cools the case.

The intels cpu GPUs sound interesting. Does that mean that a motherboard with that technology will include an onboard video connections? How will playback affect cpu utilization? Will it interfer with other sage tasks like recording?

Edit: I see mini itx motherboards with 2 expansion slots. That means, theoretically, I could make a mini pc with 2 x twin tuners for a total of 4 and have everything I want in 1 small package. I probably wont want to shell out the money for a good new case though. I'll have a look around and see if I can find a good, cheap, HT type mini case.

[sTVb]

Originally Posted by rv55

There is a limitation on funds so I wouldn't go top-of-the-range but I'd be happy with any decent, quiet, big fanned PSU. I wouldn't go fanless as the psu doesn't just cool itself, it also cools the case.

The intels cpu GPUs sound interesting. Does that mean that a motherboard with that technology will include an onboard video connections? How will playback affect cpu utilization? Will it interfer with other sage tasks like recording?

As jnfox said, Seasonic, Corsair, Antec, and I'll add Silverstone are all good brands. Corsair is mostly OEM Seasonic. I've been pretty happy my Corsair, especially considering it was about $25 after rebate. There's no reason to get some 700w monster PSU, even a 300 w is more than you'll likely need. I think mine is 380w or 400w.

My Clarkdale i3 has been great. low power, yes the motherboard has HDMI/displayport/vga? built in. I've never bothered to look at CPU utilization during playback to be honest; there's never been a reason to, it has plenty of power for HTPC needs. Sure I could do something stupid like set Comskip to use all the cpu cycles on both cores, but otherwise it's practically foolproof. I can't imagine playback ever intefering with recording, recording takes almost no cpu.

One thing that helps is to run Sage as a service, that way if you have to close or reload the UI (which then runs as a client) you can without affecting recording or serving extenders.

[jpwegas]

rv55,
As sTVb mentioned, that old P4 is likely fine for a server.

For example, the system I have been using for the last few years:

P4 HT 2.8GHz CPU
3x PVR-500 cards for analog recording (from cable STBs)
2x PCI digital tuners for cable clear QAM channels

HD300 on each TV

The key here is the server's CPU isn't doing much work - the recordings are all coming in "digital" (either from the QAM tuners or the PVR-500s), so it's just shuffling data from the cards to the disk. And when playing it just shuffles data from disk to the HD300 over the network. The server sits in the basement and the HD300s are silent.

I'm running Linux but I think you would get similar results from a Windows setup.

If you are thinking of getting an HD300 anyway, try it with your P4 setup before shelling out more cash for new server.

--John

[rv55]

Originally Posted by sTVb

There's no reason to get some 700w monster PSU, even a 300 w is more than you'll likely need. I think mine is 380w or 400w.

Yeh as long as it can power everything as well as the tuners.

Originally Posted by sTVb

My Clarkdale i3 has been great. low power, yes the motherboard has HDMI/displayport/vga? built in. I've never bothered to look at CPU utilization during playback to be honest; there's never been a reason to, it has plenty of power for HTPC needs. Sure I could do something stupid like set Comskip to use all the cpu cycles on both cores, but otherwise it's practically foolproof. I can't imagine playback ever intefering with recording, recording takes almost no cpu.

So you do use it for playback as well? How many tuners do you have?

Originally Posted by sTVb

One thing that helps is to run Sage as a service,

Yeh, I do that.


Ok, so here's my plan.

Use my old HTPC ATX size case. I don't think I'll find a smaller case with display and remote at an acceptable price. I have an Accent HT400

Buy a new MB, ddr3 ram and cpu. With the GPU I shouldn't need anything else right? Does only intel have the GPUs? Would I need a video card if I went AMD? What technologies should I be looking for on a HTPC MB? Which chipset is the way to go at the moment? BTW the mobo is the 1 item I'd be willing to splurge a bit on as I believe it is the most important hardware in a pc, so some good advice please. Is there any mb technology that would allow sage to put the pc to sleep but restart at a certain time? ie. retart when a timer is due? Can you still get PCI slots on new mbs? Found some. So I would need 2 PCI slots for my old tuners and an extra slot or 2 for a new one when I want to buy it. I guess I could buy a PCIe tuner for the 3rd one.

New PSU. But I might buy a new one for my Game PC and put the original PSU back in my HTPC case.

[davephan]

Unless I missed it, you did not post your source content (over the air analog or digital, cable TV, satellite, or DVD rips). Older versions of SageTV required the recording drives to have 64k block size, otherwise you would have video stuttering. More recent SageTV versions do not have the 64k block size requirement.

Do you have a separate boot/programs drive and a recording drive. You should not be using the boot/programs drive for video recordings.

The Linux version might be more reliable, but the Linux version is not easy to install, unless you have enough documentation to do it or are very proficient using Linux. The Windows install is much easier and there is more support on the forum for Windows. Windows 7 is probably the best choice for the Windows version. Don't bother with XP since it will be dead-ended soon. WHS is a bad choice since there isn't a way to easily recover the system.

The best way to run SageTV is with a 'headless' configuration. The SageTV computer is dedicated to SageTV, and isn't used for general purpose things like web browsing or gaming. The SageTV computer can be located in an out of the way room, so the computer does not need to be totally silent. A HD-200 or HD-300 (media extender) is located at each SD or HD TV. The video/audio content streams over 100 meg eithernet cable from the computer to the media extender. The IR signals flow from the media extender to the computer.

Don't waste you money buying older MVP media extenders. They only playback mpeg2 format. If the video is recorded in a different format, the computer must transcode the video into mpeg2 on the fly. If the computer isn't fast enough, then you will have video stuttering. The MVP video and audio quality are lousy too.

If a set top box is required, such as a cable or satellite box, then a USB-UIRT might be required to send the IR signals from the computer to the set top box.

The system board should have enough PCI-E and PCI slots for several capture cards. You may need several USB connections. You might consider a full tower case so that you can add additional hard drives in the future to expand you disk space. For a new system, a quad-core with a clock speed of about 3 gig should be selected. If you use Comskip, then you will want a fast quad-core. You will need at least 2 gigs RAM. My system normally runs at a bit over 1 gig RAM all the time.

You won't need much of a video card for a 'headless' SageTV computer. The best way to setup SageTV is using media extenders, not connecting the computer's video card directly to a TV.

You also should have a backup / recovery system in place. Ghost and Acronis are two disk imaging software packages that could be used to recover your system back to a point in time when everything worked normally. Clonezilla is a free disk imaging software package, so there really isn't an excuse not to have a backup/recovery plan. An image could save you a lot of time if you have computer problems.


Dave

[rv55]

Originally Posted by davephan

Unless I missed it, you did not post your source content (over the air analog or digital, cable TV, satellite, or DVD rips).

Digital, DVB-T to be exact. Also stuff I might download off the internet and occationally dvd rips.

Originally Posted by davephan

Older versions of SageTV required the recording drives to have 64k block size, otherwise you would have video stuttering. More recent SageTV versions do not have the 64k block size requirement.

I did have a separate physical drive and I'm pretty sure I formatted it in 64k blocks as suggested.

Originally Posted by davephan

The Linux version might be more reliable, but the Linux version is not easy to install, unless you have enough documentation to do it or are very proficient using Linux. The Windows install is much easier and there is more support on the forum for Windows. Windows 7 is probably the best choice for the Windows version. Don't bother with XP since it will be dead-ended soon. WHS is a bad choice since there isn't a way to easily recover the system.

Yeh I'll stick with Windows 7. Would 64 bit help? Besides the extra memory, I like the way my current 64 bit os runs.

Originally Posted by davephan

The best way to run SageTV is with a 'headless' configuration. The SageTV computer is dedicated to SageTV, and isn't used for general purpose things like web browsing or gaming. The SageTV computer can be located in an out of the way room, so the computer does not need to be totally silent. A HD-200 or HD-300 (media extender) is located at each SD or HD TV. The video/audio content streams over 100 meg eithernet cable from the computer to the media extender. The IR signals flow from the media extender to the computer.

Yes I know. but as I've stated before, that is not for me. I could run a cable down the middle of the house when I was living by myself but now that I've moved back in with my mother everything has to be in the one room, my bedroom.

Originally Posted by davephan

The system board should have enough PCI-E and PCI slots for several capture cards.

Yeh, I'm looking at 2xPCI for the cards I already have and 2xPCIe for the ones I might get.

Originally Posted by davephan

You might consider a full tower case so that you can add additional hard drives in the future to expand you disk space.

Like I said, I don't think I can justify the cost of a new case and I don't need extra hard drive space because I keep the stuff I want to keep on my server. My Sage will mainly be for recording and watching tv. Mostly the recordings will then be deleted afterwards. The case can hold 2 drives which should do me.

Originally Posted by davephan

For a new system, a quad-core with a clock speed of about 3 gig should be selected. If you use Comskip, then you will want a fast quad-core. You will need at least 2 gigs RAM. My system normally runs at a bit over 1 gig RAM all the time.

Yeh I think a dual core might be enough but I'll probably go quad-core. I thought it could be a bit less than 3gig. I wont use comskip. I'll probably get 2-4 gig ram.

Originally Posted by davephan

You won't need much of a video card for a 'headless' SageTV computer. The best way to setup SageTV is using media extenders, not connecting the computer's video card directly to a TV.

What do you mean 'best way'? Do you mean it will work better and be more reliable or do you mean it's more convenient because you can put the sage server in another room? I been hearing a lot about the GPUs of the Intels i3, i5 and i7. I was thinking of using that.

Originally Posted by davephan

You also should have a backup / recovery system in place.

I'm used to using Ghost ghostcast but I only use it for systems that I'd regret loosing like my server. There's nothing I'd regret about loosing my sage server except the time it would take to reinstall and I'd probably enjoy that. Still it might be worth making an image after a fresh total install.


So far It looks like the latest technology I should be looking for in a mobo are USB3.0, SATA 6gb/s, DDR3. Still not sure of the chipset.

[sTVb]

Originally Posted by rv55

So you do use it for playback as well? How many tuners do you have?.

Yes I do. I have a PCI PVR150 and a PCIe Colossus HDPVR. I also use as HD Homerun external tuner.

Originally Posted by rv55

Ok, so here's my plan.

Use my old HTPC ATX size case. I don't think I'll find a smaller case with display and remote at an acceptable price. I have an Accent HT400

The case should work. Keep in mind if your LCD is parallel your new MB almost certainly won't have a parallel port. You'll either have to ditch the display (what I did) or get a add in card and deal with getting it to work.

Originally Posted by rv55

Buy a new MB, ddr3 ram and cpu. With the GPU I shouldn't need anything else right?

Nope, most MBs will have built in audio,ethernet, etc.

Originally Posted by rv55

Does only intel have the GPUs? Would I need a video card if I went AMD?

I think the new AMD Fusion would probably work as well - keep in mind it's more of a competitor to ATOM than to Clarkdale/SandyBridge. I have no idea if there are any desktop options available for it yet.

Originally Posted by rv55

What technologies should I be looking for on a HTPC MB? Which chipset is the way to go at the moment? BTW the mobo is the 1 item I'd be willing to splurge a bit on as I believe it is the most important hardware in a pc, so some good advice please.

If you want to utilize the built in video of an i3/i5 system then you want
H55 for Clarkdale CPU's
H67 for SandyBridge CPU's
The 'P' series chipsets don't support the built in video.

Unless you find some special deal, I wouldn't see any reason to go with the older H55/Clarkdale solution instead of the newer H67/SandyBridge. There's not much of a price premium on the new CPU's and your MB selection is still a bit limited, but at least you're keeping options open since its a current platform.
-Many of the newer boards support USB3- its usually an additional controller, probably worth it IMO.
-SATA 6gb/s is hit or miss, although I think the H67 supports it natively. None of your currrent HDs will notice a difference either way.
-eSATA? don't know if it's important to you.
-Firewire? One reason I picked my MB was becasue it included FW, and I wanted to try FW recording(pointless, since I haven't been able to get hold of a cable box with it's FW port enabled)

Originally Posted by rv55

Is there any mb technology that would allow sage to put the pc to sleep but restart at a certain time? ie. retart when a timer is due?

Sage handles this fine. Since you won't be using extenders you should have no problem.

Originally Posted by rv55

Can you still get PCI slots on new mbs? Found some. So I would need 2 PCI slots for my old tuners and an extra slot or 2 for a new one when I want to buy it. I guess I could buy a PCIe tuner for the 3rd one.

I'm not sure if you'll find any mATX with 2 PCI slots. Once you commit to full size ATX you'll only have a couple of choices. In fact off the top of my head, this is all I see on Newegg(sold out) at the moment: Gigabyte h67 -UD3H
I have the H55 version of this MB and am quite happy with it. I got it on sale for $100 and it was one of only maybe 6 options at the time.

A Couple of other thoughts from your response to Dave
-W64 should be fine, just be aware no Firewire drivers for W64. Also you'll want to make sure your tuners and LCD display will work in 64bits.

- if you're not comskipping, a quad core would just be a waste of money. I have no problem comskipping on a dual core, usually in real time. Dave has more tuners than me, so I assume he has more concurent recordings and would make use of the extra cores for comskipping.

- When Dave says the server/extender is 'best' I think he means most likely to be trouble free. The extenders just work period, you really don't have to mess with them. For your usage, I would try the one box solution before going to an extender since everything will be in 1 room anyways. (Although, I still think buying a new PSU for your current HW and an extender for playback is a smart solution ofr about $200.)

- you do want a backup of at least your wiz.bin. One of th ebig advantages of Sage is it remembers what you've watched. If you do a fresh install in 6 months you don't want Sage to start recording a bunch of re-runs that you've already seen and then deleted.

[rv55]

Thanks sTVb,

That was most helpful.

The display is parallel but it's not important. The IR is and thats usb.

So H67 it is and a dual core is still a possibility.

So sage can sleep the pc and wake it without any special mobo feature? I wont worry about it then.

Now to do a thorough search for H67 mobos with 2 PCI slots. I think you are right, the options will be limited. If anyone knows of any others, please let me know.

[rv55]

What I've found so far.

Gigabyte GA-H67-UD3H
Intel HD67CL
Biostar H67MH (bare bones)
ECS H67H2-M3

I don't think I'd go the Biostar, though.

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by rv55

Do you mean that if you are watching a recording while programs are being recorded, the recordings remain unaffected but playback crashes? What exactly do you mean by "crahes"? The sage front end crashes?

Sorry for slow response. Yes the Front end crashes. Service remains rock sold, recordings are fine.

[rv55]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Sorry for slow response. Yes the Front end crashes. Service remains rock sold, recordings are fine.

Hm... Well you are using 5 tuners which I wont be but maybe I'll get a quad to be sure.