Prime is Available for Preorder!

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

IIRC, Cable Labs removed the requirement for "copy freely" flagged content needing any kind of protection attached to the recordings. So if it's copy freely, there is no reason the Prime shouldn't be able to provide it to a requesting device as though it were a clearQAM recording. Which is the impression they're giving as to how it will work.

Assuming it's allowed, that would be one possible implementation of the 2nd interface I mentioned earlier.

Can you point to where they gave the impression that it would emulate a clear QAM tuner? I haven't seen that before.

[videolog]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Yup spot on and if anyone was going to make it work it would have been Samsung. They didn't even continue it very long because sales where so poor. Granted allot of it falls back to no/back advertising of what the functions are but most consumers don't care they use their cable/sat box and are fine with it. And with most cable companies and sattelites companies having multi room dvr's now the appeal goes away pretty quickly to average consumers.

I

I'm not so sure. I posted in the placeshifter forum asking if Sage was thinking about an APP for the new breed of smart TV's. There is a rumour going around that MS is going to release an APP for WMC, that will work with smart TV's (no extender needed) as well as other handheld devices.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Can you point to where they gave the impression that it would emulate a clear QAM tuner? I haven't seen that before.

Well, I'm inferring from this:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

DVR applications

HDHomeRun PRIME supports streaming access-controlled copy-freely channels to other DVR applications including MythTV. These are channels that you subscribe to, are encrypted on the cable system (access-controlled), and do not impose restriction on use inside the home (copy-freely).

In other words, the "access-controlled copy-freely channels" are such because they were encrypted to start with, not because PRIME keeps them that way.


http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DRM
(the only page that comes up when searching their wiki for "DRM")

Digitial Rights Management, used to maintain control of content after it has been received by the customer. As DRM relies on preventing the user from accessing the decryption keys, no fully open source project is likely to ever receive licensed support of any DRM scheme.

http://www.mythtv.org/detail/mythtv

We like to think of MythTV as the ultimate Digital Video Recorder and home media center hub. Think of it as a Free and Open Source alternative to Windows Media Center or Tivo.

Conclusion: Like SageTV, MythTV has no DRM scheme in place. Of course I could be wrong and somebody with experience running MythTV could tell me/us otherwise.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Conclusion: Like SageTV, MythTV has no DRM scheme in place. Of course I could be wrong and somebody with experience running MythTV could tell me/us otherwise.

DRI != DRM; it's just the specification (UPnP + RTP) used to write applications that can talk to a DCT.

I don't see why clear QAM support can be inferred from their product page. Any application that can do UPnP and RTP can pull copy freely content off it, why complicate that by pretending to be a clear QAM tuner?

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Most cable boxes have a diagnostics menu where you can get to the CCI indicator, along with various other information. For my Motorola DCX3200, it's pretty simple to look up a few channels, sort of a PITA to look up every single channel. Plus, it is possible that the cableco could change the flag on a show-by-show basis, although I don't know how likely that is.

Well, now that I know what to look for all I need to do is find someone who has a CableBox and premium channels. Failing that, I can always lease one for a short period of time to find out.

Ours was replaced by SageTV a couple years ago and returned to the CableCo. They haven't started phasing out the SD/NTSC channels in favor of more digital content in this area just yet. Although getting our hands on the newer Digital/Encrypted QAM High Definition channels that have since come along is tempting. It just wasn't deemed worth the extra $10/month for their box + all the other hoops to get it working.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I don't see why clear QAM support can be inferred from their product page. Any application that can do UPnP and RTP can pull copy freely content off it, why complicate that by pretending to be a clear QAM tuner?

Because it already is a clear QAM tuner.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9940

I understand that to use the 6-tuner Prime you are expected to have two cablecards but was wondering if you had a single card would the first three decode the premium and the second three just tune to the Clear QAM channels??

Originally Posted by jasonl(Silicondust)

Yes.

Edit:

Looks like somebody from the SageTV side has already asked close to the right question, and they're not switching it back to ClearQAM:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9958

Originally Posted by Gustovier

I see on the official prime posts on the site silicon dust officially calls out support for mythTv(of course with copy freely channels only). But what about with SageTv? I know the current hd home run works with sage, so I'm hoping this will just work as well, but I would like to hear officially before I invest In this.

Originally Posted by jasonl(Silicondust)

We have no information regarding if Sage has plans to add DRM support for copy protected channels. For copy freely channels, it is something that can be done but will require updates to our software and SageTV in order to work. We will work with SageTV on this but can not guarantee anything at this point.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Because it already is a clear QAM tuner.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9940

DCT are QAM tuners, you can use the Ceton card as a clear QAM tuner if you want - still have to use UPnP and RTP to do it though...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by videolog

I'm not so sure. I posted in the placeshifter forum asking if Sage was thinking about an APP for the new breed of smart TV's. There is a rumour going around that MS is going to release an APP for WMC, that will work with smart TV's (no extender needed) as well as other handheld devices.

That is still on a extender that will suffer the same limits as a xbox 360 as far as codecs which is Terrible. There also has been talk about this before toshiba or someone at one point actually announced they were putting app in their tv about 3 or 4 years ago to act as a extender and they killed it even after announcing it. In other words most all rumors for WMC are false even confirmed/seen products are not guaranteed aka dish and directv tuners.

[videolog]

I think this has a 50/50 shot of happening. I believe it has something to do with the embedded WMC announced at CES. It just recently started getting mentioned as an APP for smart TV's. A couple of years ago I never would have thought Netflix would be included right in the TV, but that is where we are at today.

Here is a link to something also announced back in Jan.
http://youarelookingfor.info/hot-new...d-tv-hands-on/

I am very curious to see where this will end up.

[panteragstk]

Netflix is considerably more popular than WMC. Embedded designs are cool, but I don't think most manufacturers will back that support. The WMC embedded model is more for STB's like what U-verse is using (IIRC).

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Netflix is considerably more popular than WMC. Embedded designs are cool, but I don't think most manufacturers will back that support. The WMC embedded model is more for STB's like what U-verse is using (IIRC).

Correct mediaroom is where Microsoft makes money I still strongly believe wmc is nothing more than a testing ground.

And comparing Netflix and wmc is like comparing a Kia to a Honda one is wisely more popular and used.WMC is not used near like Netflix there is also no potential revenue with wmc like Netflix. Whisful thinking at best for it to be embedded in tvs. Even if it is it will be very limiting in codec support much like the 360. Ie no native DVD,bluray or hd audio support. Which to me is inexcusable in this day in age.

[Hunter69]

I have been reading through this thread and am looking for a clarification. When people are talking about copy freely channels is that talking about clearqam channels??

I currently have an hdhomerun and my local cableco has been removing clearqam channels. In fact my hdhomerun is mainly used to serve up hd locals and not much else.

[stevech]

I think of it this way, as a novice (and I don't use off the air)... The DRM gods have devised means for to encrypt or refuse to forward unencrypted data if an authentication process isn't followed. This goes all the way to the HDMI port, for example. The mating device, if approved by the DRM gods via CableLabs' certs, can receive copy protected (not copy freely) material. That trusted device must then store/transmit per the DRM rules. Cable TV companies' DVRs are certified; TiVo is too, sort of, but enthusiasts may have found out how to decrypt TiVo's videos stored on disk and extract them. As I get it, Silicon Dust via CableLabs, with the Premier having a cableCARD, gets DRM god approval to accept copy protected material and pass that securely via ethernet ONLY to a certified receiver (now, only Microsoft's Media Center which, I guess, is also part of the trusted base in DRM).

The CableLabs cert. process is probably a political minefield and somewhat costly. Which may be why Sage doesn't pursue a role akin to Microsoft's Media Center.
Years ago, I worked with DOCSIS (cable modems) and CableLabs was the certifying authority for DOCSIS compliance. Like WiFi, it's an industry alliance, where members have a profit agenda to some extent.

The curious one is TiVo.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stevech

The curious one is TiVo.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

What is curious about TiVo? I am pretty sure know one has "broken" the drm. Why do you think that? They follow the same rules be it a bit different from the pc occur rules. Stuff people are getting off the TiVo onto their pc if copy free content. You can do the same with WMC if it is copy free there is no drm on the file. TiVo is still locked down with none copy free content. It follows the same restrictions. You can stream from TiVo to TiVo or TiVo to computer but copying the file and viewing or editing elsewhere isn't possible.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Hunter69

When people are talking about copy freely channels is that talking about clearqam channels??

No, what they are primarily referring to is encrypted channels that need a cablecard to decrypt the channel. Along with the decryption, there are flags in the video stream that dictate whether the content can be copied freely (no restriction on the number of copies made), copied only once, or not copied at all. Those whose content is flagged as copy freely are a lucky group; they can use technology like HDHomeRun Prime and Ceton InfiniTV to view those shows, even with the encryption used.

In contrast, ClearQAM content is not encrypted at all. Compressed, but not encrypted.

[Hunter69]

Thanks for the clarification.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

What is curious about TiVo?

On user forums, I read that there is software to convert a TiVo file to an open standard. I wonder if that applies as well to DRM-protected files in TiVo. And TiVo users are able to get to the LInux shell and turn on SMB sharing, etc.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stevech

On user forums, I read that there is software to convert a TiVo file to an open standard. I wonder if that applies as well to DRM-protected files in TiVo. And TiVo users are able to get to the LInux shell and turn on SMB sharing, etc.

No TiVo allows this oncopy freely content and always have. Drm content is still locked down. You can do the same with wmc files that are copy freely (and why sagedct works). Even if they are doing what you think the files that have drm still would and would be useless. TiVo allows copying and converting for all none drm content.

[mistergq]

Maybe I misread an earlier post. The video file created from Prime/Cable Card will be viewable on HD300, right?

[jptheripper]

SiliconDust has stated that for Sagetv to natively see the video from Prime a change is required in both the sagetv software and the silicondust software, and that has not yet happened.

Originally Posted by mistergq

Maybe I misread an earlier post. The video file created from Prime/Cable Card will be viewable on HD300, right?