Netflix

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by brainbone

And from that url: "Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy."

Sure. Maybe we've been agreeing all along. I just think its important to make a distinction between content partners requiring content protection, and the content partners not allowing Netflix to work with certain hardware/software vendors. Earlier you implied content providers didn't allow Netflix to work with Android, whereas I think its more accurate to say Netflix had to work with phone manufacturers on supporting DRM systems.

The content providers don't seem to care who Netflix works with, or even what they seem to do, so long as content protections are in space. This is in contrast to Hulu, which seems to not only care about DRM, but also how/where people can watch the videos.

[panteragstk]

I just love how these debates start. Just like the "when is sage v7 coming out" we didn't know until they wanted us to. Just like this and cable card and anything else they have up their sleeve. We won't know until they want us to. No matter how much you just want a quick "hey guys we're working on it" it isn't going to happen. Why tell us something is coming when something could happen to stop it from being released? Wouldn't that be worse than not telling us anything? I would be pretty upset if sage said tomorrow that netflix support was on it's way and they never came through. I'm content with launching boxee for netflix and hulu desktop to use those services. Works and I don't have to worry. For the extenders I don't have yet, playon will be good enough.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Sure. Maybe we've been agreeing all along. I just think its important to make a distinction between content partners requiring content protection, and the content partners not allowing Netflix to work with certain hardware/software vendors. Earlier you implied content providers didn't allow Netflix to work with Android, whereas I think its more accurate to say Netflix had to work with phone manufacturers on supporting DRM systems.
.

Right but again Netflix wanted it on android because of the user base....sagetv is a different ballgame.

[jptheripper]

interesting, run android apps on windows

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/05/bluestacks/

Maybe we can run netflix, on android, on windows.. from sage?

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Earlier you implied content providers didn't allow Netflix to work with Android, whereas I think its more accurate to say Netflix had to work with phone manufacturers on supporting DRM systems.

I think we do agree, but to clarify my point (and beat a dead horse): Any time you have contracts in place, anything you do that can upset those contracts have to be carefully dealt with, otherwise, at worst you end up dissolving that contract and suffering any consequences of that action, or at best pay your lawyers to make sure everything is O.K. and/or tweak the contract. In addition to DRM requirements, Netflix API reps. have implied that the Netflix API, and who has access to what level of that API, are restricted by contracts with their content partners. Whether the 100k line in the sand is directly tied to their content partners' contracts or tied to Netflix resource management, I don't know -- but suspect it's a bit of both.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Maybe we can run netflix, on android, on windows.. from sage?

Probably not without the necessary libraries and qualcomm hardware.

[stanger89]

OT, but isn't the Netflix app running on phones that don't have the MSM8655 that was (at one point) theoretically required for Netflix? For example the EVO 4G which apparently has the MSM8650, or actually all the current phones, most of which have older CPUs.

[reggie14]

Leaving extenders behind, on which Netflix-stream support would certainly require the cooperation of Netflix, I'm curious how many people would want to see integrated support for Netflix in software SageTV clients.

I'm not convinced it would be worth the effort, although I'm not sure how difficult it would be to do. I'm much happier with the HD extenders than I ever was with software clients. I was even much happier with the MediaMVP than I was with the software clients. So, I wouldn't want to give extenders up.

Still, I think streaming video is just going to become more and more important to support. I know there's PlayOn, but I find the video quality unacceptable for general use. Maybe that will change if/when MediaMall adds HD support, but I don't think that's a good long-term solution.

It could be the best long-term solution is to go "back" to software clients. I don't think its clear yet that that would be a good approach. You could probably hack in pretty good Netflix support into a software client, but I think you would need more than that to really justify it. Hulu support probably would never come, notwithstanding a major policy shift from the TV networks. Maybe Amazon VOD would be possible.

Cheap, small, low-power, and quiet Windows machines have come a long way since I moved to extenders. I might be willing to go back if there were some compelling advantages.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

OT, but isn't the Netflix app running on phones that don't have the MSM8655 that was (at one point) theoretically required for Netflix? For example the EVO 4G which apparently has the MSM8650, or actually all the current phones, most of which have older CPUs.

That's not too surprising. I'd expect all the Snapdragon chips would support SecureMSM, which I suspect is a bigger deal than needing a specific model of the chip. I'm not not overly surprised that Netflix is having some problems on certain Snapdragon chips. Apparently the workaround hacks don't quite work on the Evo Shift, which has a slower, but newer, version of the Snapdragon. Who knows what sort of goofy compatibility issues there might be. I'm sure Netflix is only testing on a relatively small set of phones (maybe only the set of phones they officially support).

I'm also not overly surprised that Netflix is working on the Nexus S, which doesn't use a Snapdragon chip. Instead it uses a Hummingbird chip. But, that's the new flagship Android phone, so it basically makes sense that Netflix would figure out a way to support it.

What's really surprising, to me, is that Netflix sometimes works on the Nook Color, which uses a TI OMAP chip. It also sometimes works on the Droid X, which also uses an OMAP chip. I'm surprised it works at all, since none of the officially supported devices use OMAP chips.

I suspect there's two possibilities, though I know relatively little about Android programming so these are no better than wild guesses. First, maybe there's some buggy code for supporting OMAP chips that isn't ready for official support yet. Or, maybe Netflix is using the Open Mobile Alliance DRM, which Qualcomm's SecureMSM implements. It's possible (but I have no reason to think one way or the other) that the Hummingbird and OMAP chips also use Open Mobile Alliance DRM, but that they're not all quite compatible with one another.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Leaving extenders behind, on which Netflix-stream support would certainly require the cooperation of Netflix, I'm curious how many people would want to see integrated support for Netflix in software SageTV clients.

I'm not convinced it would be worth the effort, although I'm not sure how difficult it would be to do.

Because of Netflix, I never switched to the extenders.

I think the hardest part of a Netflix plugin would be integrating a browser in SageTV so the player would work seamlessly (no spawning of a separate bowser window).

I certainly think it's worth the effort, but being a PC client user, I'm a bit biased.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by brainbone

And from that url: "Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy."

All the more reason to wonder how Boxee Make and other non-profit/open source collaborations can support Netflix - without Silverlight.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by brainbone

Because of Netflix, I never switched to the extenders.

I think the hardest part of a Netflix plugin would be integrating a browser in SageTV so the player would work seamlessly (no spawning of a separate bowser window).

I certainly think it's worth the effort, but being a PC client user, I'm a bit biased.

The way we used to do it worked great. I miss the old netflix plugin...Boxee is similar, although I haven't seen the quality of video yet (stupid slow internet connection).

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stevech

All the more reason to wonder how Boxee Make and other non-profit/open source collaborations can support Netflix - without Silverlight.

What supports netflix without silverlight? Boxee uses silverlight.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stevech

All the more reason to wonder how Boxee Make and other non-profit/open source collaborations can support Netflix - without Silverlight.

OK, so what's "Boxee Make"? I've never heard of it (relative to Boxee) and Google doesn't seem to know.

[PiX64]

I second that. What's this boxee make u alls speak off??

[reggie14]

They're just using the term "Boxee Make" to refer to the Boxee software you can download and install on Windows/Mac/Linux boxes (as opposed to just buying a Boxee Box). I've never seen that term used anywhere else either.

As panteragstk said, the Boxee software only supports Netflix if you have Silverlight installed (which means no Netflix for Linux users).

[wayner]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What supports netflix without silverlight? Boxee uses silverlight.

iPad and iPhone?

[PLUCKYHD]

I could be wrong but don't think pay tv Netflix apps use silverlight either.

[reggie14]

Devices like Roku, blu-ray players, TVs, phones, etc., don't use Silverlight to access Netflix. The Boxee Box doesn't use Silverlight either. But the original claim implied there were non-profit/open source software projects that supported Netflix without using Silverlight. I don't think that's true.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Devices like Roku, blu-ray players, TVs, phones, etc., don't use Silverlight to access Netflix. The Boxee Box doesn't use Silverlight either. But the original claim implied there were non-profit/open source software projects that supported Netflix without using Silverlight. I don't think that's true.

Correct. There are two ways to get netflix streaming. Either you are a partner, in which case, you have whatever DRM scheme netflix and you have come up with approved, and authorized to use directly, or you aren't a partner, and use the already rolled-up and approved silverlight player (with it's built-in DRM).