Netflix

[drewg]

I think what really needs to happen for Netflix to appear on the extenders is that Netflix needs to deal with Sigma Designs (OEM of the boards that run the HD300, WDTV, and a zillion other media players), and get a netflix player included in the DDK that Sigma gives its partners. That way, SageTV would be lumped in with the "Big Boys" (like WDTV) that can meet the volume requirements. It seems like it would save Netflix a lot of trouble as well -- they'd have a single point of contact (Sigma) rather than all the various companies that use their boards in STB products.

I've often wondered if it would be possible to extract the netflix player from a WDTV firmware update & run it on the HD300. I've never really had any chance to try it, though.

Drew

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by drewg

I've often wondered if it would be possible to extract the netflix player from a WDTV firmware update & run it on the HD300. I've never really had any chance to try it, though.

Does the WDTV and HD300 use the same board?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What supports netflix without silverlight? Boxee uses silverlight.

Should have been more specific (I keep doing that). I meant what PC related software supports netflix without silverlight?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by brainbone

Does the WDTV and HD300 use the same board?

no, just similar processors. The problem with this 'all sigma' approach is that netflix isn't JUST concerned with the DRM aspects, but also the UI itself. There are a lot of different sigma based players, that all have drastically different UI's, and even different UI systems. This is why they can't be grouped together like the 'all android with xxx processor' can.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

no, just similar processors.

The HD300 and WDTV Live Plus both use the SMP8654 chipset. I think they may even use the same basic board, but I don't have time to find a dmesg from a WDTV to compare to my hd300. Obviously, some connectors are different (like the component cable).

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The problem with this 'all sigma' approach is that netflix isn't JUST concerned with the DRM aspects, but also the UI itself. There are a lot of different sigma based players, that all have drastically different UI's, and even different UI systems. This is why they can't be grouped together like the 'all android with xxx processor' can.

It *seems* like they should be able to write things so that the media player takes a URL to the protected content, and listens on a local socket for UI commands / requests. Then the Sigma partner writes their own GUI which which displays timelines etc, on an overlay, issues commands to ffwd/rewind, etc. This is how sagetv controls mplayer in the placeshifter client.

Drew

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by drewg

It *seems* like they should be able to write things so that the media player takes a URL to the protected content, and listens on a local socket for UI commands / requests. Then the Sigma partner writes their own GUI which which displays timelines etc, on an overlay, issues commands to ffwd/rewind, etc. This is how sagetv controls mplayer in the placeshifter client.

I think Fuzzy's point was that Netflix cares about the UI on partner devices. They don't want their partners rolling their own UIs without Netflix involvement.

I think your plan could work in principle. But, it would probably be a lot of work for both Sigma and Netflix, and might not be worth it. I'm also not sure that would work to get Netflix support on the HD300 in extender mode. The way it would probably have to work is that you'd essentially launch a Netflix app, with the Netflix-approved GUI, on the Sigma device. Based on my limited knowledge of the way the HD extenders work, I'm not sure you could do something like that in extender mode. And honestly, I don't see much of an appeal to getting Netflix support on the HD300 in standalone mode only.

[stevech]

Boxee Make
http://www.boxee.tv/make
Perhaps this is essentially the same software that runs on Linux on the BoxeeBox (D-Link product). With Netflix support.

Apple, Windows, and Linux.

For Netflix:
Windows version would be using SilverLight for DRM?
Apple version would be using what? for DRM
Is it true that the Linux version of Boxee Make has no DRM for Netflix support? What does Boxee Box use (it's Linux).

And what of Netflix on XBMC ? Or is that not actually Netflix?
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43724...antly-in-xbmc/

[drewg]

Originally Posted by reggie14

And honestly, I don't see much of an appeal to getting Netflix support on the HD300 in standalone mode only.

I'd actually love to have it in standalone mode. The last thing I need is another box to cable into my system, which is one of the reasons I'm not a netflix customer now. The HD300 "boots" into extender mode almost instantly, so transitioning between standalone & extender would not bother me.

Drew

[sleonard]

Transitioning from standalone to extender is easy. The reverse requires a power cycle. For many that would still be OK but for myself who uses it only in extender mode it would be a bit of a pain and not really user friendly.

The holy grail would be extender support. I see two possibilities.

1) The Sage server app is certified to access netflix and also stream it to extenders. This does not seem to fit any existing Netflix app models and I wonder if Netflix would allow this at all.

2) Sage figures out how to make a Netflix item in the extender mode menu that essentially acts like a standalone item. Once you choose the Netflix menu you are connecting directly to Netflix and bypassing the Sage server. I wonder if this is technically possible.

The other option is standalone only and for it to be feasable/acceptable for me/some/many Sage would have to figure out how to go back to the standalone mode from extender mode with a menu button. I don't know if this is technically possible.

S

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stevech

Boxee Make
http://www.boxee.tv/make
Perhaps this is essentially the same software that runs on Linux on the BoxeeBox (D-Link product). With Netflix support.

It's similar software, but not quite the same. There's a special version of Boxee for the Boxee Box, since the Boxee Box is essentially a closed system.

Originally Posted by stevech

Windows version would be using SilverLight for DRM?
Apple version would be using what? for DRM
Is it true that the Linux version of Boxee Make has no DRM for Netflix support? What does Boxee Box use (it's Linux).

If you look at the Netflix app page for Boxee, you'll see Silverlight is needed on Windows and the Mac. If you look at the comments on that page you'll see several people note that Netflix does not work on the Linux version of Boxee.

As a closed hardware and software system, Boxee was able to come up with a system-specific solution for getting Netflix on the Boxee Box. I have no idea what they did. I suspect they're using some special features of the Intel chip that's used in the Boxee Box, or maybe they just have some special software on the Box.

Originally Posted by stevech

And what of Netflix on XBMC ? Or is that not actually Netflix?
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43724...antly-in-xbmc/

The link you provided says you need to be running XBMC on a Windows or Mac box with Silverlight installed.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by sleonard

Transitioning from standalone to extender is easy. The reverse requires a power cycle. For many that would still be OK but for myself who uses it only in extender mode it would be a bit of a pain and not really user friendly.

Its not an actual power cycle, that's just what they want you to think.

Whats happening under the hood on the extender is that /app/client/miniclient is exiting, and returning control to the extender. Things then wait (with the display off) until you hit the "power on" remote button. This is all done from a loop in /etc/init.d/S55sage on the HD300. Assuming a menu entry that said "launch netflix", it would be trivial to cause the HD300 miniclient to exit with a different status, and trigger the launch of the mythical netflix client, then re-launch the miniclient & connect back to the server when exiting netflix.

Drew

[GKusnick]

Rebooting into standalone mode would be possible (maybe even trivial) but would not, in my opinion, count as integrated Netflix support. For Sage to be able to honestly advertise integrated Netflix support, it would have to be integrated into the server software, available to all connected clients, software or hardware, from within the standard SageTV UI, and accessible to third-party plugins and UI mods, just like any other core feature.

If I want a standalone Netflix mode with a non-customizable UI, I don't need to wait for Sage to do it. I can have that now, by adding another box to my system. The one-time hassle of cabling up another box is minor compared to the ongoing hassle of switching modes and UIs. This sort of half-baked Netflix support would not induce me to buy any additional extenders, or trade in my existing extenders for newer models.

Unless Sage can deliver seamless integration of Netflix to all SageTV clients, within the existing SageTV UI/plugin paradigm, I don't think it's worth their time to bother with it. (Whether Netflix would allow that I have no idea.)

[PLUCKYHD]

Poll if you gauging interest in a netflix client pc app.

here

[wayner]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

If I want a standalone Netflix mode with a non-customizable UI, I don't need to wait for Sage to do it. I can have that now, by adding another box to my system. The one-time hassle of cabling up another box is minor compared to the ongoing hassle of switching modes and UIs. This sort of half-baked Netflix support would not induce me to buy any additional extenders, or trade in my existing extenders for newer models.

I am now up to six extenders so adding another six boxes (I could get away with five since my main HT setup has an HTPC that can access Netflix) in my house would be a royal PITA.

In order to make things works smoothly you may also need to buy an additional remote control (like a Harmony) at each TV if you don't currently use multiple inputs.

Having everything work through Sage, ideally in extender mode, is the best solution that I would really like to see.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by drewg

I'd actually love to have it in standalone mode. The last thing I need is another box to cable into my system, which is one of the reasons I'm not a netflix customer now.

Drew

I wish the HD300 or Sage's PC client supported Netflix (via Silverlight?).

But now, my Vizio TV and my Blueray DVD player each have Netflix playing capability.

My spouse is complaining about too many buttons on too many remotes.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by drewg

Its not an actual power cycle, that's just what they want you to think.

Whats happening under the hood on the extender is that /app/client/miniclient is exiting, and returning control to the extender. Things then wait (with the display off) until you hit the "power on" remote button. This is all done from a loop in /etc/init.d/S55sage on the HD300.

Drew

I must be having a dense day. How is this different than a power off, power on? I know that the unit doesn't actually power off completely but the display output turns off and the power LED turns off (trivial, I know), for practical purposes that's a power cycle.

OTOH, If I could create an import that alters the "Exit" menu item to only exit the mini-client without turning off the display and Power LED than I think I see what you're saying.

Originally Posted by drewg

Assuming a menu entry that said "launch netflix", it would be trivial to cause the HD300 miniclient to exit with a different status, and trigger the launch of the mythical netflix client, then re-launch the miniclient & connect back to the server when exiting netflix.

Drew

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Rebooting into standalone mode would be possible (maybe even trivial) but would not, in my opinion, count as integrated Netflix support. For Sage to be able to honestly advertise integrated Netflix support, it would have to be integrated into the server software, available to all connected clients, software or hardware, from within the standard SageTV UI, and accessible to third-party plugins and UI mods, just like any other core feature.

If I want a standalone Netflix mode with a non-customizable UI, I don't need to wait for Sage to do it. I can have that now, by adding another box to my system. The one-time hassle of cabling up another box is minor compared to the ongoing hassle of switching modes and UIs. This sort of half-baked Netflix support would not induce me to buy any additional extenders, or trade in my existing extenders for newer models.

Unless Sage can deliver seamless integration of Netflix to all SageTV clients, within the existing SageTV UI/plugin paradigm, I don't think it's worth their time to bother with it. (Whether Netflix would allow that I have no idea.)

Both Drew and Greg,

If, like my theoretical Exit Menu import above, a "Netflix" Menu item would NOT turn off the display or power LED but simply exit the miniclient and return directly to a standalone "Netflix" submenu and then exiting this "Netflix" submenu would return you directly to the extender mode main menu I could live with it. That would essentially be seemless for extender use.

What about when you entered the standalone Netflix submenu from the standalone interface. There would have to be two exit paths. One to take you back to standalone and one that took you back to extender mode depending on which one you were in when you entered the Netflix submenu.

S

[wayner]

In an ideal situation you would just enter the Netflix standalone mode to play a movie once the movie is selected. That way you can integrate the Netflix content within the Sage UI as is possible today using Diamond (and perhaps other UIs) so that the user is pretty agnostic as to whether they are watching a Netflix movie or a prerecorded movie.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by wayner

In an ideal situation you would just enter the Netflix standalone mode to play a movie once the movie is selected.

This is all assuming that Sage would be able to get Netflix in standalone mode. My guess is that if Sage is ever able to get Netflix in standalone mode on the extenders, it would be in Sage UI the next day.

[Zippster]

Originally Posted by brainbone

This is all assuming that Sage would be able to get Netflix in standalone mode. My guess is that if Sage is ever able to get Netflix in standalone mode on the extenders, it would be in Sage UI the next day.

You would think and hope.

[mistergq]

If Sage had to use a proprietary netflix app, and I could launch that somehow from Extender, it may not be technically "integrated", but that is close enough for me. I just would like to use netflix without having to use my Xbox 360 or Bluray player, or have to buy an apple tv or roko device.