HD300 volume/mute work in SD, not HD

[stevech]

HD300 volume/mute work in SD, not HD...

The screen icons react properly, but when playing an HD file previously recorded by the HD-PVR, the mute/volume on the HD300 has no effect.
Playing an SD recording on the HD300, originally encoded by a Hauppauge SD tuner, audio works properly.

HD300 connected by HDMI to TV.

[GKusnick]

By design, digital audio is passed through unchanged to your receiver to be decoded there. For Sage to control the volume would require decoding it, applying the volume control, and then re-encoding it for the receiver, which would still have to decode it and apply its own volume control. That extra decode/encode cycle is generally thought to be undesirable from the point of view of preserving audio quality (and to be honest, I'm not sure the HD300 has the hardware to do it).

Edit: Note that the HD300 remote does have the ability to learn your receiver's volume and mute commands.

[stevech]

I get it, but the non-geek user here doesn't. The volume/mute work for some (SD/.mpg) but not all (HD/.ts). Both are "digital".

A mention of this in the Sage docs - didn't seem to be there.

I'm trying to migrate all boxes/TV to the Harmony 300 remote.

[stanger89]

Then it's easy, just setup a volume punchthrough and volume is always controled on the TV/AVR/SSP and never the extender, that's what I do with my URCs.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Then it's easy, just setup a volume punchthrough and volume is always controled on the TV/AVR/SSP and never the extender, that's what I do with my URCs.

I need a NASA acronym dictionary

Volume Punchthrough
AVR
SSP
URC


I know I need to make the Sage Remote's volume/mute button be a clone of what codes are on my Vizio TV. Didn't need to do that for SD.

We're using the Hauppauge remote that came with the MVP extender to talk to the HD300/Sage Server; the WAF on the remote that shipped with the HD300 was very low, poor ease of use, poor ergonomics.

Then I'll finish the Harmony 30 cloning for the TV, HD300, DVD and one other device.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by stevech

I need a NASA acronym dictionary

Nothing like making fun of acronyms by using an acronym...

[stevech]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Nothing like making fun of acronyms by using an acronym...

OMG

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stevech

I need a NASA acronym dictionary

Volume Punchthrough
AVR
SSP
URC


I know I need to make the Sage Remote's volume/mute button be a clone of what codes are on my Vizio TV. Didn't need to do that for SD.

We're using the Hauppauge remote that came with the MVP extender to talk to the HD300/Sage Server; the WAF on the remote that shipped with the HD300 was very low, poor ease of use, poor ergonomics.

Then I'll finish the Harmony 30 cloning for the TV, HD300, DVD and one other device.

OK, well let's work backwards shall we, you say your planning to use a Harmony, well that negates anything to do with Sage's remote, so just forget about Sage's remote completely.

"Punchthrough", it's a feature on good programmable remotes that allows one devices functions to "punch through" all other devices/activities, essentially, it allows (in this case) the volume/mute buttons to always control your TV say, instead of SageTV, or the DVD player, or the other device, even if you're on the SageTV activity/device on the remote. Unless Harmony really crapified the 30, it will have this feature.

AVR = Audio Video Receiver
SSP = Surround Sound Processor

URC = Univeral Remote Control (a competitor of Harmony which IMO make much superior remotes).

Basically Punchthrough on your Harmony will solve this issue entirely, not to mention the other things it will help (like startup/shutdown sequences and input switching). While you may not have had to do this with analog TV, IMO you should have been, it's always best to control the volume in one place, the place that directly affects the speakers, not upstream devices.

[stevech]

OMG thanks for the acronym definitions. Perrrrfect. (I'm having a midlife crisis)

If I reprogram the Harmony or the Sage remote to make the volume/mute be the codes for the TV, then there is a catch-22.

I found that the HD300's volume/mute does affect audio when playing standard def videos via the HD300, the audio *is* affected by the Sage's volume buttons. When playing a .ts file, there is no affect. But the HD300's volume setting, if altered due to power-on defaults or some such, if low, can't be increased if the remote's key has been reprogrammed to that for the TV. The HD300 uses HDMI, so I must be mistaken about volume being affected in std. def. videos (mpg); I must recheck.

(my cable box's remote is a Universal Electronics, Inc. (UEC) product. It has a JP1 connector (6 header pins, not USB, though I found a USB adapter for sale) for programmability via a PC, but JP1 seems to have atrophied about 8 years ago. The UEC remote I have is better laid-out than the Harmony 30. I went off with the '30 because I could get to the video source discrete IR command codes - for the TV's HDMI input choices - via Harmony's web site downloads. I didn't know how to get those discrete codes into the UCE remote. Now, if I want, I can have the UEC learn the discrete codes for input selection from the Harmony 30's IR output. Awkward. However, the UEC remote doesn't have some uncommitted buttons for input select as does the Harmony 30.)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stevech

OMG thanks for the acronym definitions. Perrrrfect. (I'm having a midlife crisis)

If I reprogram the Harmony or the Sage remote to make the volume/mute be the codes for the TV, then there is a catch-22.

I found that the HD300's volume/mute does affect audio when playing standard def videos via the HD300, the audio *is* affected by the Sage's volume buttons. When playing a .ts file, there is no affect. But the HD300's volume setting, if altered due to power-on defaults or some such, if low, can't be increased if the remote's key has been reprogrammed to that for the TV. The HD300 uses HDMI, so I must be mistaken about volume being affected in std. def. videos (mpg); I must recheck.

In what 4, 5 years of running extenders since the HD100, I've never had it reset to low volume, or ever needed to control the volume on the extender itself for any other reason.

[gplasky]

At any time on the Harmony 300 if you press the Device button and choose the HD300 the volume buttons will now work for that device. Same with choosing the TV or your receiver as a device. The volume controls now work for the device you have chosen. No catch 22.

Gerry

[Jeffek]

I recently upgraded to the HD300 from having a great many years with the HD200, and I'm experiencing the exact same volume control problems as Stevech - the volume and mute buttons on the HD300 remote have no affect on HD content, but they due work on SD content.

Now this was not a problem with the HD200, volume/mute buttons worked regardless of SD vs. HD. The only change I made was swapping out the HD200 for an HD300 and upgrading the firmware to beta 20110124-2.

I have programmed the programmable vol buttons on the HD300 remote to control the volume of my receiver (as a work around), but it's really frustrating that the primary volume buttons (and mute button) only work on SD content (which is quickly going the way of the dinosaurs).

Please help!

[stanger89]

Make sure your audio output is not set to bitstream in the standalone setup.

FWIW, it's better (quality) to use the volume on your AVR/TV or whatever is actually producing the sound than on your source device. Turning the volume down on the source reduces the resolution (number of bits) used to carry the sound.

[trk2]

To expand a little bit on Stanger's answer, bitstream is required if you want to use HD-Audio. If that's the case, then unfortunately the only answer is to use the programmable volume buttons, or to purchase a programmable remote.

[stanger89]

So as not to confuse things, "HD audio" is not the same thing as the audio on HDTV channels. "HD Audio" is Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, which are found only on Blu-ray. The extenders can't decode these (though the HD300 can decode the core), so if you want these output in full quantity you must bitstream.

But for HDTV, it's normal AC3/Dolby Digital, which the extender can decode, though I'm not sure if you still get surround sound if you let the extender decode that.

[Jeffek]

Thanks for the information. I currently have the Audio Output on the HD300 set to "HDMI 1.3 HD Audio Bitstream" and the unit is one of two extenders I use with the SageTV service on my server.

As I remember, this Audio Output option was not available with the HD200. So are you saying that if I revert back to the "Digital PCM" output option, the HD300 will be able to mute and control the volume with the primary control buttons?

I can get by ok just using the programmable volume btns to control my AVR (although not having a functioning Mute btn might cause me to get a Harmony), but I just wanted to get a better understanding of what these output options were actually doing and the difference from what I experience between the HD200 vs. HD300.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Jeffek

As I remember, this Audio Output option was not available with the HD200. So are you saying that if I revert back to the "Digital PCM" output option, the HD300 will be able to mute and control the volume with the primary control buttons?

Yes

[Fuzzy]

I also don't think Digital PCM is going to get your surround sound. I think it decodes and outputs stereo PCM only (though you'd know right away most likely by looking at the channel indications on your AVR, assuming it has some).

Long term, you're likely going to want to get a better remote, and simply control audio settings on your audio device.

[Jeffek]

Yes, I need to upgrade to a programmable remote. Can anyone recommend one (best bang for the buck)? Or is there a thread on this somewhere in the forum?
Thanks for all your help!

[trk2]

My guess is that the most popular on the Sage forums are either the Harmony or URC remotes. I have a 5 year old Harmony that still works well, however it was not an inexpensive purchase and I can't provide a recent "bang for the buck" recommendation. You might want to try Remote Central to see if they have any recent reviews or peruse their forums for recommendations.