New Business idea: Pre-building mini HTPC clients

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

Slightly off topic, but how difficult is it to get HD audio/bitstreaming working on one of these machines?

I'll let you know once I get my new receiver.

[farfromuman]

I have a fusion E-350 laptop and it chokes on HD Netflix streams (720p output to the projector), everything else runs fine but it is not the fastest thing around. Silverlight does not have hardware acceleration enabled, this might be fixed in the future.

http://www.anandtech.com/print/4442

I would build something with a mini ATX mobo, Radeon 5550 card (the AMD IGPs can't do full HD audio via HDMI except for the 6310), dual or triple core CPU - client PCs are definitely a big PITA, even is you master all the config settings there is always something not right.

[Audacity]

Originally Posted by farfromuman

client PCs are definitely a big PITA, even is you master all the config settings there is always something not right.

After some problems with what turned out to be a bad network driver, I have two SageTV clients working very well (one AMD 785G-based HTPC, one Dell Studio Hybrid HTPC).

SageTV, Netflix, Hulu, YouTube. They all work just fine.

The Studio Hybrid is connected to my bedroom TV, and the AMD 785G machine is in the basement connected to a 5.1 HT setup.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Audacity

After some problems with what turned out to be a bad network driver, I have two SageTV clients working very well (one AMD 785G-based HTPC, one Dell Studio Hybrid HTPC).

SageTV, Netflix, Hulu, YouTube. They all work just fine.

The Studio Hybrid is connected to my bedroom TV, and the AMD 785G machine is in the basement connected to a 5.1 HT setup.

+1, no issues for my client either.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I can do it in my sleep now so if anyone needs help let me know (once you guys actually buy your hardware that is).

I may be giving you a shout soon as I've just bought some stuff for a custom build HTPC.

Case - Antec ISK-100, Black/Silver, Mini-i
Mobo - E35M1-I DELUXE MITX DDR3 HDMI DVI SATA 6GB/S GLN
HDD - 60GB OCZ Solid 3 SSD, 2.5" SATA 6Gb
Mem - Corsair XMS3 4GB (1x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz
OS - Win 7 Ultimate 64bit

From what I can remember (many years ago) codecs were a massive problem for me the last time I used a client pc with Sage.

[Skirge01]

The biggest issue I ever had with a client PC was getting HD bitstreaming working, but there were plenty of people to help with that both here and at Missing Remote. It only took a couple of days to get it working. Now, this was under Windows 7. On the other hand, Windows XP was a major pain to get codecs working properly.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by jaminben

I may be giving you a shout soon as I've just bought some stuff for a custom build HTPC.

Case - Antec ISK-100, Black/Silver, Mini-i
Mobo - E35M1-I DELUXE MITX DDR3 HDMI DVI SATA 6GB/S GLN
HDD - 60GB OCZ Solid 3 SSD, 2.5" SATA 6Gb
Mem - Corsair XMS3 4GB (1x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz
OS - Win 7 Ultimate 64bit

From what I can remember (many years ago) codecs were a massive problem for me the last time I used a client pc with Sage.

No problem. Codecs are the main issue, but once you find the right ones (which I seem to have) you are good to go. Some that I wish sage would play nice with don't work for some reason (MPC-HC for h.264) annoy me, but ffdshow works perfectly for the most part.

EDIT: Pretty sweet little board. I may have to revise my client build.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

The biggest issue I ever had with a client PC was getting HD bitstreaming working, but there were plenty of people to help with that both here and at Missing Remote. It only took a couple of days to get it working. Now, this was under Windows 7. On the other hand, Windows XP was a major pain to get codecs working properly.

I'm about to grab a new receiver so I'll get to play with that functionality. I'm still in waiting territory for the time being. Hopefully it will be as easy as you say.

[graywolf]

No problem. Codecs are the main issue, but once you find the right ones (which I seem to have) you are good to go. Some that I wish sage would play nice with don't work for some reason (MPC-HC for h.264) annoy me, but ffdshow works perfectly for the most part.

EDIT: Pretty sweet little board. I may have to revise my client build.

So would you be able to let us Dummies know?
IE. What codecs, how to configure, etc, etc, etc.

Or does it also depend upon what hardware, OS, etc, etc, etc.

[Evil_Attorney]

Re: codecs, Windows needs a mechanism to "lock" all codec priorities and configurations so they can't be accidentally messed up with new software/updates, etc. Or, maybe some intrepid Sage user could come up with software that installs the right configuration of codecs and sets them to the right priority, that way, fixing issues is only a few clicks away.

[PLUCKYHD]

I would stick with intel boards for what it is worth. Intel processors with intel boards just make since and bitstreaming from sandybridge and windows 7 is painless. I am mostly having issues with 24hz playback but hoping to solve that soon.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by graywolf

So would you be able to let us Dummies know?
IE. What codecs, how to configure, etc, etc, etc.

Or does it also depend upon what hardware, OS, etc, etc, etc.

Honestly keep it simple. Codec packs are the enemy. I use cyberlink decoder for mpeg2 (manly for dvd menu's) and because the built in ms decoders for w7 act funny sometimes with mpeg2. For vc-1 and h.264 I use ffdshow with no issues. Audio is all handled by ffdshow as well. That's pretty much it.

I also disable the sage splitter for .mkv and .mov as it doesn't like my decoders for those file types.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I would stick with intel boards for what it is worth. Intel processors with intel boards just make since and bitstreaming from sandybridge and windows 7 is painless. I am mostly having issues with 24hz playback but hoping to solve that soon.

Isn't the 24hz issue something intel won't solve until the next generation? I've also read disable UAC solves that problem. Sort of.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

Re: codecs, Windows needs a mechanism to "lock" all codec priorities and configurations so they can't be accidentally messed up with new software/updates, etc. Or, maybe some intrepid Sage user could come up with software that installs the right configuration of codecs and sets them to the right priority, that way, fixing issues is only a few clicks away.

I'll try to post something more in-depth when I get a chance, but it isn't all that difficult (if decoders are something you have messed with before).

I'll even put together a package with all the decoders I use to make it easier.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Isn't the 24hz issue something intel won't solve until the next generation? I've also read disable UAC solves that problem. Sort of.

Yeah I have UAC disabled. Nvidia gets close with 24fps and intel gets slighter off a bit more. But it is only like every 8 minutes you notice it if anything. My issues is audio is not staying in synch which has nothing to do with the refresh rate.

And FWIW intel said 24fps would be fixed with sandy bridge to I believe

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Yeah I have UAC disabled. Nvidia gets close with 24fps and intel gets slighter off a bit more. But it is only like every 8 minutes you notice it if anything. My issues is audio is not staying in synch which has nothing to do with the refresh rate.

And FWIW intel said 24fps would be fixed with sandy bridge to I believe

That's the main reason my clarkdale graphics aren't used. Well and the fact that there is no way to manage overscan. My old crt needs help. When I buy my projector later this year it will be a non-issue, but 24hz support will be a must. I'm going to just grab an amd 6750 and be done with it. It seems those cards are the closest to correct. Plus the kick the crap out of intel hd graphics on the hqv test (subjective I know, but a good benchmark).

This is the best article I've found comparing the HTPC GPU's.

EDIT: Are you using sage to output 24hz? I didn't think that was supported?

[Evil_Attorney]

The other pet peeve of mine is the small gap that the HD300 adds between songs when you play music. This causes my receiver to go silent for about 2 seconds to detect what format the audio is in, so the first few seconds of music is always missing. Is there a way to set up the audio in a client PC to avoid this?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

The other pet peeve of mine is the small gap that the HD300 adds between songs when you play music. This causes my receiver to go silent for about 2 seconds to detect what format the audio is in, so the first few seconds of music is always missing. Is there a way to set up the audio in a client PC to avoid this?

My client doesn't do that. I think. Granted all my files with very few exceptions are .mp3's so that shouldn't be an issue. I was working on a music ui alternative, but it was in such an early stage of development that I'm not going to mess with it.

[Evil_Attorney]

I've brought this issue up with Sage support and they said the issue is that the Sage software (at least on the extenders) can't access and bring together the data from the end of one song with the beginning of the next fast enough, so a small gap of silence is inserted. I assumed that a client PC would have the same problem, but maybe different sound card drivers handle this "silence" differently?

One more thing, this doesn't relate to the format of the music. MP3, FLAC, ALAC all has this problem. Maybe my receiver is just extra sensitive.

[david1234]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

I've brought this issue up with Sage support and they said the issue is that the Sage software (at least on the extenders) can't access and bring together the data from the end of one song with the beginning of the next fast enough, so a small gap of silence is inserted. I assumed that a client PC would have the same problem, but maybe different sound card drivers handle this "silence" differently?

One more thing, this doesn't relate to the format of the music. MP3, FLAC, ALAC all has this problem. Maybe my receiver is just extra sensitive.

I'm a j2ee/database guy and haven't actually worked with media playing, but my understanding is that "gapless" playback isn't trivial to implement. The 2 audio streams have to be merged together. I'm guessing that the reason Sage can't do it is that they don't want to re-write their core music libraries.

[Rob]

What OS.....What hardware works best... What codec... What settings....

Extenders were the strength of SageTV. I gladly did the ebay routine to get two backups for the 6 I have in use. To me it was money well spent. Clients are no cheaper and not as easy.

That said, I still have to build a client. I need to prove I can make one work again and also need one to overcome the timeline issue my R5000's sometimes present on the extenders. I know now that Sage will never fix this bug.