HDHomeRun (HDHR) Prime + SageDCT

[jlmdxtv]

Originally Posted by phelme

This seems to happen to me occasionally when a Prime tuner is coming off a show and then immediately has to record another (as opposed to recording it on an alternate tuner on the same Prime).

Are you still using XP in your recording server?

I was having the exact same problem you're having and I followed lots of recommendations with: buffer sizes, Intel NIC, Comskip changes, etc.

I switched to Windows 8 (preview) and the problem went away. After seeing it working for a few weeks, I purchased Windows 7 and it's been fine since. Zero halts - hundreds of recordings. All on the same hardware XP was using. I think Windows 7 manages it's network traffic more reliably than XP.

john

[DirtClodimus]

I just got a prime the other day and got mostly everything working with my sage setup and comcast. However, I did run into the No Signal issue with a couple channels (Comedy Central HD and HGTVHD).

It looks like the VLC option in SageDCT makes it so I can tune in to those channels, but now the live tv skips about every 10 second or so. Does anyone have any ideas on what might be going on or things to try? Without the VLC option in SageDCT, I am able to watch tv without skips but I'm not able to tune into some channels. With it enabled, I'm able to tune in to the channels that used to not work, but all channels then exhibit this skipping every 10 seconds.

This is being played back on and HD300, Sage is running on a Core i3 server running Windows 7 64-bit, recording to a local 1 TB drive. CPU usage is very low. Comskip is set to run after a recording is completed. I'm running the latest beta firmware on the prime.

EDIT:
It appears that some channels, when playing back recordings, are firing up the Sage transcoding service. Not all of them do this, so I'm not exactly sure what's going on. When I see the process running, the HD300 pretty much is unusable and locks up until I power toggle it. There should not be any transcoding going on from my sage server to the HD300, but it appears that at times, it is occuring.

[Gustovier]

Just wanted to chime in here and mention I'm yet another user who has been working fine and stable for about a year. Then I assume Comcast about a week ago started messing around and I was unable to view certain channels (amc-hd,CNN-hd,etc) in the quick tv or sage. I ended up upgrading the prime firmware to at least get them viewable in quick tv,vlc,etc.. Afterwords to get them working in sage I had to upgrade sagedct to latest and use the vlc option. Tuning is a little slower as indicated but everything seems to be working now. The vlc functionality looks to be coming more and more important for our user base.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

Are you still using XP in your recording server?

I was having the exact same problem you're having and I followed lots of recommendations with: buffer sizes, Intel NIC, Comskip changes, etc.

I switched to Windows 8 (preview) and the problem went away. After seeing it working for a few weeks, I purchased Windows 7 and it's been fine since. Zero halts - hundreds of recordings. All on the same hardware XP was using. I think Windows 7 manages it's network traffic more reliably than XP.

john

Yep, still on XP. I think the problem may be in the packet handling on the loopback interface. Which could be the fault of the XP firewall/ICS service because I think it inserts itself there.

It happened again tonight, Doctor Who recording at 6 PM, that went fine, then at 7 PM the STOP message was sent to SageDCT to finish off Doctor Who, that shows in the SageDCT log, then the START message was sent to SageDCT to record on the same tuner about 15 seconds later and SageDCT never received that message according to its log. Without running Wireshark/RawCap I can't be sure where the breakdown was.

Sat 9/29 19:00:16.180 [Seeker@1de289a] MMC connected to encoding server at 127.0.1.1:7000
Sat 9/29 19:00:16.180 [Seeker@1de289a] MMC sent request to 127.0.1.1:7000 of START SageDCT-HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 1310670F-0 Digital TV Tuner|810|2697940818574|\\sagetv-server\BigMedia2-Recordings\ChefRaceUKvsUS-S01E01-VegasorBust-19444953-0.ts|Great
Sat 9/29 19:00:16.185 [FSManager@463fe0] Error communicating with encoding server:java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "ERROR failed request"

There are errors on the SageTV server side for communication, but who knows what they mean. I'm not sure where the "ERROR failed request" messages originate or what causes it.

I've bumped up the "RTP Delay" option (not being sure exactly what it does) to 200 but that hasn't solved it.

If it's the firewall I haven't yet found one that doesn't have a problem somewhere. The one I was using that worked solid with SageDCT, Privacyware, causes intermittent problems with my network encoder PC running an HD-PVR. And another good one, Comodo, has Java heap sizing issues. Just can't win.

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by DirtClodimus

It looks like the VLC option in SageDCT makes it so I can tune in to those channels, but now the live tv skips about every 10 second or so. Does anyone have any ideas on what might be going on or things to try? Without the VLC option in SageDCT, I am able to watch tv without skips but I'm not able to tune into some channels. With it enabled, I'm able to tune in to the channels that used to not work, but all channels then exhibit this skipping every 10 seconds.

I have been working on this same issue (same symptoms at least) for a couple of weeks and looks like I have it finally licked. I have no idea if my problem/situation was the same as yours, but I thought I would let you know what I did to get rid of the same symptom.

To get VLC to work on my WHS v1 (XP) server, I had to switch from a SageTV UNC recording path (localhost) to an absolute path. For me, that started the "skipping." After that, I changed my recording directory back to a UNC path (localhost) as it had been for many years without trouble, and used the replace paths option in Sage-DCT to allow the VLC option to work with a UNC path recording directory. That made it better, but it did not go away totally.

After a bunch of trial and error, I hypothesized that with the Sage-DCT VLC option turned on it seemed like my wireless router was not able to handle the network switch duties by itself anymore (along with a couple of lower end unmanaged switches attached to it too). So, I bought a better switch to offload the switch duties from my wireless router. I installed it two days ago and the result is amazing. No skipping and everything is running very fast. Now, I have no idea if I had a bad lower end unmanaged switch that worked but not well after years of use, but having one switch handle all of my load and let the router just handle the rest seemed to have fixed my problem. Again, I do not know if you have the same issue, but I wanted to provide you my journey with the same symptoms and how I got rid of it.

[DirtClodimus]

After a bunch of trial and error, I hypothesized that with the Sage-DCT VLC option turned on it seemed like my wireless router was not able to handle the network switch duties by itself anymore (along with a couple of lower end unmanaged switches attached to it too).

Thanks a ton for the info!

This could very likely be my issue. I can't really spend the $200 on a new switch right now, but I'll definitely go rearrange some stuff to see if I can make it work. Are the files a lot bigger with the VLC option or something? Seems odd that with my hdhomerun tuners on OTA content, the switches have been fine. With the prime and VLC option those recordings are causing issues.

Is the transcoding issue a result of possible slow network, causing it to think it needs transcode?

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by DirtClodimus

This could very likely be my issue. I can't really spend the $200 on a new switch right now, but I'll definitely go rearrange some stuff to see if I can make it work. Are the files a lot bigger with the VLC option or something? Seems odd that with my hdhomerun tuners on OTA content, the switches have been fine. With the prime and VLC option those recordings are causing issues.

Is the transcoding issue a result of possible slow network, causing it to think it needs transcode?

I have not noticed the files being any bigger, and I really do not know if there is a transcoding issue going on or not. All I know is that I started having the "skipping" problem as soon as I turned on the VLC option. I have been using a HDHR for a few years and the HDHRP for almost a year, and I never had this issue pop up. The more I played around the more it looked like a network issue. I did have the money, so I went all in on a new switch ($190 on eBay with a $40 mail in rebate if bought by today (9/30)) to get the load off my wireless router so it did not have to be a switch too, and that fixed my issue. I am not sure why the problem popped up when I turned VLC on, and my issue may be different than yours, but I would try to see if you can get your network all running through one switch and see if that helps like it did me. Good luck, I know how much of a pain it was to watch skipping TV.

[Gustovier]

Originally Posted by DirtClodimus

Thanks a ton for the info!

This could very likely be my issue. I can't really spend the $200 on a new switch right now, but I'll definitely go rearrange some stuff to see if I can make it work. Are the files a lot bigger with the VLC option or something? Seems odd that with my hdhomerun tuners on OTA content, the switches have been fine. With the prime and VLC option those recordings are causing issues.

Is the transcoding issue a result of possible slow network, causing it to think it needs transcode?

For what it's worth, I have the same switch just the 8 port version (a lot cheaper) and I havent experienced the drop outs you guys have since switching to the vlc approach a couple of days ago to get around the non tuning channel issue.

[sflamm]

Going to give the VLC option a shot - as I have similar problems to others on the thread.

In terms of configuration:

1. VLC path : Should this be set to the directory (i.e. c:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC) or the full path to the program (i.e. c:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe) ?

2. Use VLC for RTP capture : Assume this is the knob to turn on the use of VLC, correct?

Thanks in advance.

[nyplayer]

1.If you double click where the VLC path is in SAGEDCT it will open up a dialog to select the VLC.exe.
2. Yes

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by Gustovier

For what it's worth, I have the same switch just the 8 port version (a lot cheaper) and I havent experienced the drop outs you guys have since switching to the vlc approach a couple of days ago to get around the non tuning channel issue.

Agreed, most people are not going to need the 24-port version for their home. But, I am using 10-ports now and see needing a couple more in the future, and with the rebate that ran up through today the 24-port version was cheaper than the 16-port version. Anywho, going from using my Netgear R6300 WiFi Router and two Netgear GS605 switches with my router doing some of the switching too, to just my router and the JGS524 switch has been nearly life changing in just the 48+ hours it has been up and running. I never even knew I had some of the network issues I apparently had until I got everything hooked up just to try to fix the skipping problem by going to SageDCT VLC, and now everything is much faster.

[sflamm]

I tried using vlc.exe and it caused errors for sagedct:

2012/09/30 21:18:49.35 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:19:09.98 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:19:30.43 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:19:50.96 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:20:11.68 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:20:32.20 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:20:52.72 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:21:13.24 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\ShutterIsland-7512522-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:22:12.90 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\LawOrderSpecialVictimsUnit-S09E03-Impulsive-7512768-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.
2012/09/30 21:22:33.41 : Error starting VLC: The process cannot access the file 'F:\RecordedTV\LawOrderSpecialVictimsUnit-S09E03-Impulsive-7512768-0.ts' because it is being used by another process.

Not sure what the cause of this is... any ideas?

[jlmdxtv]

Originally Posted by phelme

If it's the firewall I haven't yet found one that doesn't have a problem somewhere. The one I was using that worked solid with SageDCT, Privacyware, causes intermittent problems with my network encoder PC running an HD-PVR. And another good one, Comodo, has Java heap sizing issues. Just can't win.

I ran the Prime under XP for a few weeks without any software firewall -- I don't recall it reducing the Halt situation. I also tried dedicating a separate 1GB Intel nic connected directly to the Prime. But nothing I tried made it work 100% of the time.

john

[jimz06]

Just as I was about to declare victory...I tried to watch some live TV on the sagetv server and an HD300, and tried a recording. Anything tuned by clear QAM HDhomeruns work just fine as always, but anything tuned by the Prime stutters and halts or never gets going, especially the HD channels. I assume this isn't a network issue since I can play the output from the HDHR's and stream full blu-ray rips without problems. Never had an issue with my firewire captures either. So is the VLC functionality built into SageDCT the cure to this particular disease?

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by jimz06

Just as I was about to declare victory...I tried to watch some live TV on the sagetv server and an HD300, and tried a recording. Anything tuned by clear QAM HDhomeruns work just fine as always, but anything tuned by the Prime stutters and halts or never gets going, especially the HD channels. I assume this isn't a network issue since I can play the output from the HDHR's and stream full blu-ray rips without problems. Never had an issue with my firewire captures either. So is the VLC functionality built into SageDCT the cure to this particular disease?

For me.. the VLC cure was for programs that recorded fine but weren't playable with sage due to internal steam info that sage doesn't handle well. I don't think the vlc will fix any halt issues..

Jim

[jimz06]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

For me.. the VLC cure was for programs that recorded fine but weren't playable with sage due to internal steam info that sage doesn't handle well. I don't think the vlc will fix any halt issues..

Jim

Thanks. On second thought, why would I be able to record a perfectly playable stream using the Test function in SageDCT but end up with a stuttering mess in LiveTV or halts when initiating the recording through SageTV. Is there something different about how the Test function initiates the recording?

[sflamm]

for some reason VLC seems to really require a windows firewall to be running... oddly enough as nothing else does (what would be the root cause of this?)

that was quite painful since my machines isalso a domain controller (need to open up all the necessary domain ports manually to keep domain running properly)

VLC tuning overhead seems very low (startup time for VLC process) - my server doesnt blink an eye.

so far looks good.. we'll see if it solves all the channel problems.

[jimz06]

Originally Posted by jimz06

Thanks. On second thought, why would I be able to record a perfectly playable stream using the Test function in SageDCT but end up with a stuttering mess in LiveTV or halts when initiating the recording through SageTV. Is there something different about how the Test function initiates the recording?

After reading through 20 pages of this thread, I'm leaning toward thinking my network is the culprit so I will be doing the SD recommended tests and reconfiguring some cables, etc. to see if I can isolate the problem. It would be helpful if I understood how SageDCT and the Prime interacted over the network. Does SageTV just act as the front end to activate SageDCT (STV and SDCT are installed on the same HTPC) which in turn controls the Prime tuners? And then, does the Prime stream directly to my video directory on my WHS server or does the stream pass through SageDCT before it gets to the video directory on the WHS?

[teedublu]

Originally Posted by Gustovier

.. and I was unable to view certain channels (amc-hd,CNN-hd,etc) in the quick tv or sage.

I found SD's QuickTV too buggy when it hit encrypted channels. Had to restart it too often. You can configure the HDHR Setup program to Use WMP as the Application. Then when you get an encrypted channel a popup says so (will also say unsubscribed if that's the case) -- then just click ok and move on. Once in a while I still had to close WMP due to it being hung, but much less than with QTV.


Also as you noted, VLC does seem to fix things for Sage. I have encountered a couple of cases when a recording was black/blank but with sound in Sage but would play normally in VLC or WMP. So it seems there are some stream issues that VLC won't fix (currently). Hopefully, one day, a fixed TS splitter will be available (I'm not holding my breath).

TW

[teedublu]

Originally Posted by teedublu

I have encountered a couple of cases when a recording was black/blank but with sound in Sage but would play normally in VLC or WMP. So it seems there are some stream issues that VLC won't fix (currently). Hopefully, one day, a fixed TS splitter will be available (I'm not holding my breath).

Well, I got two more, one Sunday that I just discovered and another this eve. (on Comcast, both SDef channels)

Both are black screen with sound in Sage. But one of them when played in WMP provides picture but no sound! So the VLC pass-thru resulted in an unplayable in WMP. It works ok when played in VLC.