SATA drive works hooked up through the USB but not SATA

[mike1961]

Hello - I'm upgrading my Sage Server and I got a new 3 TB SATA drive. I have a NexStar that I got from Frys which allows me to put up to two internal SATA drives into this device and the device hooks to the computer either through the USB or SATA ports. I've copied everything to the drive (which took a long time) and I copied it when it was hooked to the USB. I then decided to remove the drive and put it as a secondary hard drive directly in the computer as a SATA and it detects it at Disk Management and I can even assign a drive letter to it but then the computer says I need to format the drive. I can't seen any information at all on the drive but I can see everything if I hook it up through the USB. I don't understand why this is.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Mike

[gplasky]

What version is the OS? Windows Xp can't see anything bigger than 2TB. Did you partition and format the drives before you started your copy?

Gerry

[mike1961]

Windows 7. It's a GUID single partition. It works just fine when I plug in the SATA through the USB and I can see the entire 3 TB drive with all the data. But, when I plug it in through the SATA it sees the drive in Disk Management and it displays the drive letter which I can change. It shows 2794.33 GB RAW Health (Primary Partition). But, if I double click the drive at explorer then it says I have to format the drive before I can use it. I don't understand why it is doing that.

I don't want to hook it back into the USB and copy all those mpg files because it will take a day to copy all that information through the USB.

Thanks for any help.
Mike

[95TBird]

Have you tried connecting the drive Internally to the SATA ?? (To eliminate the possibility that the problem is with the external devices SATA connection )

-Bruce

[mike1961]

YES - The computer recognizes the drive in disk management and sees it's a 3 TB drive. The problem is it can't see the data. This problem is driving me nuts. It sees everything fine if hook it up as a USB.

I currently have two drives installed internally as SATA drive. The first drive is the Windows 7 2 TB boot drive. The second is the SATA 3 TB drive that I can't get to work. I can see everything but the data. Windows wants me to format the drive. This problem is driving me nuts because I'm not even sure what search keys I can plug into Google to try and find a solution.

See the screenshot - I currently have it assigned as drive Q and I can reassign the drive letter with no problem. I can see all the Sage MPG video files if I hook it up through the USB. I currently have it installed internally as the Q drive.

Thanks,
Mike

[95TBird]

See if this helps...

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...-mbr-disk.html

-Bruce

[carlgar]

It probably is an issue with the Sata disk controller that has not yet been updated to handle the large disk (greater than about 2.3 TB). My 3 TB WD disk came with its own controller board to get around this problem. The USB ports are probably updated to handle that size. I currently use mine with a USB 3.0 port and works fine, I wanted the faster speed of that port. Ihave not tried my internal SATA III ports but suspect that they can handle the disk.
If you really want any help you need to start providing infomation instead of just saying it does not work! Is your SATA ports SATA II or SATA III? What motherboard are you using? Have you checked for disk controller updates?

[mc50]

Without knowing the model number of the Nexstar, I took a quick look at the specs for some of them. It looks like the models that accept two drives have a switch to set it for either two seperate drives or one big drive (JBOD).

I'm wondering if it was set for JBOD when you partitioned/formated it and even though you only had the one drive in, it writes the tables differently on the drive due to that.

Just a thought.

[mike1961]

It's an ACPI x64 based PC

I'm not sure where to look in the Device Manager for this information.

Under Storage controllers it displays AMD AHCI Compatible RAID controller.

I think if I were to format the disk then it would work and format the entire 3 TB because I did this before putting it into the USB slot and it worked.

All help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

[carlgar]

I just looked at the Nexstar device at Frys and it appears to be a SATA II or USB 3.0 since USB 3.0 is the fastest. Are you using a USB 3.0 port or just a 2.0 port?
I agree that it would probably work with a reformat but I also suspect that you will lose a lot of disk space. I think after reformatting it will show about 2.3 TB. What is your goal? Faster speed or max. space?

[mike1961]

My screenshot displays 2.7 TB in the disk manager so that is what I believe I will get if I do the reformat. I don't think disk space is going to change at all under the GUID format. I think it's a USB 2 port but I'm not sure how to tell because I don't see in Device Manager where it displays that. I think it's a USB 2 due to the length of time it took to copy everything averaging around 20 MBS.

I'm still not understanding why it works fine as a USB. I originally formatted it to 2.7TB as a SATA. Then I took it out of the SATA and put it in the USB and did the copy. Now it doesn't display any data in the SATA but does as a USB.

I don't think I"m going to lose disk space. My goal ultimately is to have it as a SATA drive but I would think I should still be able to easily swap drives from SATA to USB without a problem.

Thanks,
Mike

[carlgar]

Since you goal is to have SATA access, you probably will need to reformat. However, I do believe you will lose space. The purpose of the new formatting Technolgy is to get more bits in the same space. I think the size being shown is correct because it is calculated from given parameters. I think if you were to use the USB connection to fill up the disk and then use the SATA connection to read it back you would see a loss of data.
Your other option would be to use a USB 3.0 port which would give 5 Gbps speed. If you only have SATA II, that only gives you 3 Gbps. A SATA III will give you upto 6 Gbps if your disk supports it.

[mike1961]

Clearly (except for copying and backups) speed is somewhat irrelevant to SageTV operation for the size of my MPG files.

But, I'm still really unclear on why the computer recognizes everything in the USB but not SATA. I can't recall exactly how I formatted the disk (when it was hooked up via SATA or USB).

I'm wondering if I format another disk in SATA mode and then copy some files then will it be compatible in both SATA and USB?

Mike

[carlgar]

You are getting different results because you have different controllers. The USB controllers are aware of the Advanced Format of the disk. Your SATA controllers do not appear to be. This is a fairly well known problem and that is why WD included a SATA controller with its 3 TB drive. Who made your 3 TB disk? WD has a utility named WD align utility which would probably correct the issue. It is not clear to me if it results in loss of space. You may want to review the information here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=120, it is for a WD 3 TB disk but may give you a better idea of the issues.

[mike1961]

It's a Hitachi drive from Frys for only $130 - no controller. I'm thinking that if I format it when it is hooked up as a SATA then I should be able to continue to use it either as SATA or USB but I'm not positive.

One other thing I'm wondering, it's a "go green" drive. I'm wondering your thoughts on that. Three things:

1. Supposedly they run a lot cooler which I like but I've heard mixed reviews on how reliable they are.

2. Will they work just as well for multimedia with Sage?

3. I know they are a bit slower access times but would that be a problem with Sage? Certainly the speed should not be a problem at all.

Thanks,
Mike

[carlgar]

As I already stated, a SATA reformat would probably work but I would only expect 2.2 TB of space. Once you are below the 2.3 TB limit it should work fine on both SATA and USB.
1. I have 3 Green WD drives and they work fine. Green probably just means they spin a 5400 RPM instead of 7200.
2. I am not sure if it is because they are green or I have them spin down after 2 Minutes, when watch from them it takes maybe 10 seconds for the disk to spin up. That is the only time I notice an issue.
3. Is a loaded question without knowing the number of tuners and extenders you have. I would not want to try having all my 3 HDHRs (6 tuners) writing to a single disk. I just gave my 3 HDHRs their own 1 Gbps network because I thought other network traffic could have been causing some minor loss of data. The loss could be from the drives but I doubt it. It is very difficult to understand why issues like that occur during recording. Today, I saw some loss but I believe that was at the cable company level.
BTW: In the future you should stay with 2 TB or smaller drives. I purchased my 3 TB drive mostly just to see if my USB toaster could handle it. It does does. Also, my 3 green internal drives are all SATA II. I can now support upto 4 SATA III drives but I currently only have 2 drives that are that fast.

[mike1961]

1. Green may also power down automatically after an idle period but I'm not positive.

2. I've always wondered if hard drives last longer if the constantly are powered down and back up again or if they are just "always running." Perhaps it just depends on how often they are powered down.

Why do you suggest sticking with the 2TB drives? Do you think there's a reliability issue or just compatibility issues? I like the idea of 50% more in the same space.

Mike

[carlgar]

1. Not sure about this. I rely on the OS to spin down the disk after the time that I specify. When I first started buying green drives they were varible speed between 5400 and 7200 RPM. I am not sure if this is still true since I now only see 5400 RPM mentioned.
2. Not sure about this. I do not worry about this since I usually replace my primary disk every year or two. I also let my server shut down if inactive for 2 mins. I have had very few disk failures.
3. I susgested that for compatibility reasons only. I do not get the impression that you really know what your motherboard supports. If you get a new motherboard or add-in cards, you should be good to go. One of my primary concerns with a 3 TB disk is, do I really want to lose that much data if the disk fails!
If I were in your position I would consider getting a USB 3.0 add-in card like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815166035. This is a PCE express card, not sure if your motherboad supports that. You also solve your issues by getting a SATA add-in card that supports the very large drives.Also, don't forget a SATA III controller needs a SATA III cable. Good luck.

[mike1961]

Actually - I have my system set up such that I have "permanent files" set up in a separate partition on a 2TB primary drive. I have the OS in one 250GB partition and I have reserved about 1.75 TB for permanent videos, music and photos. That's always backed up. The other drives are for temporary storage.

You make a good point about drives not failing in that a lot of us probably replace our drives every year or two because they just keep getting bigger. It's way to tempting to double or triple our space when drives are so cheap.

I've had some weird problems like the one I mentioned. Another strange problem is I got a SATA (sansdisk) bay from Frys that will support up to 4 SATA drives. It came with a card for the MOBO and every week or two I would hear this SUPER LOUD tone from that card and all communcation from the computer to the drives in the bay would be gone. I'd have to restart the computer. I've since pulled that card and have run a cable direct from the bay to a SATA cable on the mobo. No problems since. I'm not sure if that card was a SATA controller for those mobo's that don't support SATA or if it is to support RAID format or what. However, I prefer that all my files not be spread out over several drives. I'm not copying all the files from the USB back to the SATA drive. So far - all is well.

I still don't think reformatting the drive is going to change the amount of disk space - I'll let you know.

Thanks again,
Mike

[carlgar]

I would not have a singe OS partition as large as 250 GB. I would have as small of partition as is reasonable and then create another partition for misc data. The reason for a small OS partition is to go with a SSD at some point. An SSD is great for the OS partition and lets the system start up much quicker.
I am just starting to use raid for storage because of the large drives. With raid I should have to worry about a single disk going bad. I now have a 2 bay NAS with 2 2 TB WD green drives which gives me a reliable 2 TB of space accessable from any of my computers. At some point I will get a larger NAS with a better raid support and hopefully will support the Advanced Format drives.
I would be very concerned about any card that makes noise unless it has a fan on it. From your description it sounded to me like when one of my drives is starting to fail, until I realized that you said the noise was coming from the card.
I am anxious to know the results of the reformat. I would also like to know the time it takes. Are you planning a quick or full reformat? I always do a full reformat, I believe it took me about 8 hours on a USB 3.0 port to reformat my 3 TB disk. I think it took about 18 hours to reformat a 2 TB disk using a USB 2.0 port. It was an oversight on my part for months I had my USB 3.0 disk dock connected to a USB 2.0 port. I would estimate that do a full reformat with a SATA II connection will take about 5 hours for 3 TB.