Spec'ing a Sage client HTPC

[dagar]

Originally posted by Shawn Oster
When you say "cranky" just what do mean? I'm looking to get the new silent version, the SN41G2V2, and am wondering just what issues I may run into.

The new 'silent version'? You mean the one with the new Silentx 250w PSU. Uh, it's not silent. Maybe at 20 yards. But not as an HTPC.

[Shawn Oster]

How noisy is it? Anything you can compare it to? Right now I have a Dell XPS tower right next to the TV and I'm hoping it's at least quieter than that. I don't need complete ninja silence as even my Sony DVD player makes a little noise as the disc is spinning.

Is that what you meant by cranky? The noise?

[dagar]

Originally posted by Shawn Oster
How noisy is it? Anything you can compare it to? Right now I have a Dell XPS tower right next to the TV and I'm hoping it's at least quieter than that. I don't need complete ninja silence as even my Sony DVD player makes a little noise as the disc is spinning.

Is that what you meant by cranky? The noise?

I'll have to think about the comparison; I might record the sound and see if I can link it although I've done some work to quiet mine down. I changed the 80mm ICE fan to a PANAFLO and changed the 40mm PSU fan to a silent (14db) job from ULTIM8PC (in the UK, I was able to have someone bring them over on a trip from the USA).

It was cranky due to the BIOS revs having 'issues'. Shuttle appears to have worked them out in the past 6 months. It appears to be fine now ... thankfully. I've also heard that OCing is a bear with the SN41; though I haven't bothered on that one. That's why I have an AN7


----edit-----
Ok, did some searching at Sudhian and found this and this. The SN41G2 will be somewhere near a SS51 which is 54dba at 12" front though the SN41G2 has a northbridge fan and the SS51 doesn't; though they had similar PSU and ICE fans. The Silentx is supposed to drop the noise around 2 or 3 dba (IOW half; from a roar to a dull droan) :eek2

[stanger89]

FWIW on the topic of noise I got out the trusty RS SPL meter and measured my box.

Ahanix D.Vine 4 (modded for 80mm rear case fans).
P4 2.4B
Zalman CNPS-7000AlCu w/ 92mm fan
Panaflo L1A 80mm rear fan
Fortron 300W w/ 120mm fan
Radeon 9500non-pro stock fan
200GB WD SE
160GB Seagate 7200.7

At 1" it measures ~54dB, which would translate to about 43dB at 12" or ~40dB at 1meter.

If I were to replace the 7200rpm 3.5" HDDs (probably move them to a server) with a 2.5" laptop HDD it would be close to inaudible at my sitting position. Most of the noise is just the annoying whine from the HDDs, the rest of the noise is the much less annoying sound of air moving.

[sleight42]

Finished building and setting up Sage on my Shuttle SN41G2V2.

Notes:

• It's not silent but it is terribly quiet. I can't measure the noise level but I can hardly hear a thing from it while sitting on the couch about 10 feet away. I have absolutely no complaints in this department.
• The XP 2500+ is definitely overkill. I'm maxing out at about 30% CPU usage.
• Sage looks GREAT on a 43" TV at 800x600 less loss of overscan (mine is a 4x3 so I'm not using 720i or 1080i)
• Love the DVD player.
• Hate having to switch from "Source" to "16x9" when watching a DVD. Is there some way to default the DVD Player to 16x9 and normal recordigns to "Source"?
• Experiencing some "lag" with Sage Client only when I hit pause. Sage Client is unresponsive for a few seconds and then control returns as normal.
• I've an annoying "hum" from my HDTV speakers (yes, not plugged into the receiver yet) ONLY when the PC is plugged into the HDTV, PC audio out plugs into the HDTV, and electrical power is connected to PC. PC power doesn't have to be on. This may be a grounding issue. Help?

[stanger89]

Originally posted by sleight42
Hate having to switch from "Source" to "16x9" when watching a DVD. Is there some way to default the DVD Player to 16x9 and normal recordigns to "Source"?

This seems to depend on decoders and renderers among other things probably.

For me Sonic + Overlay on my Radeon gives me AR problems, but Sonic + VM9 works perfect.

[sleight42]

Originally posted by sleight42

• I've an annoying "hum" from my HDTV speakers (yes, not plugged into the receiver yet) ONLY when the PC is plugged into the HDTV, PC audio out plugs into the HDTV, and electrical power is connected to PC. PC power doesn't have to be on. This may be a grounding issue. Help?

This appears to be a grounding problem. I'll buy a ground loop from Radio Shack soon and find out for sure.

[dagar]

I read a thread on Sudian a few months back that dealt with grounding probs on Shuttle XPCs ... I think it affects yours (and mine). The guy posted his gnd fix too.

Yeah, it's too loud for my taste though ... noise is such a subjective thing!

[Shawn Oster]

Great to hear the noise level of the Shuttle isn't making you deaf *grin*. I have a feeling it would be just fine for me. So the 2500+ is overkill? Good to know when it comes time to decide where to splurge and where to cut back.

What video card did you go with for TV-OUT? Any chance of comparing that TV-OUT with the onboard?

Thanks for posting, time to go and browse the shuttle site again....

[sleight42]

I got a Radeon 9600 for the TV out. I did actually play with the nForce2 a little bit first. It only offers an s-video out for the TV, as far as I know. Of course, my DVI to YPbPr looks MUCH better on a (very pissy) 43" HD monitor than the nForce2 s-video. However, I admit, I didn't check for a VGA-to-YPbPr adapter for the nForce2 either.

I'm planning on building another box for an old 27" TV in our gym. I may use the SN41G2V2 again except this one would use nForce for video. If you're not using an HD monitor, the nForce would almost certainly be adequate.

I have to say, though, at my current 1152x680, higher quality Sage recordings and DVDs look mighty fine. And there is a world of difference between 1.7GB/hr and 3GB/hr at this resolution.

Yes, the XP 2500+ is overkill. However, if you're contemplating playing games on the machine then perhaps you'd want to keep it in there. Remember, the CPU is only $75 so not a huge cost savings there. Your added cost comes from the Shuttle box and a video card.

Oh, and, incidentally, other than being a TINY box, it was a dream to set up compared to all of the PCs that I've built up from scratch. Popped off the fan and CPU heatsink, in goes the CPU, popped the fan and heatsink back in, struggled a little with their port cables (front USB/firewire), dropped in my drives, dropped in my 512MB DIMM, plugged in the HDD IDE cable (optical IDE cable is plugged in pre-shipment!), and away we go! The AGP card was pretty easy too. All in all, I'm far more pleased with the box than I ever expected to be.

I'm still not sure if heat will be a problem. The little box is putting out its fair share. Anyone know of some heat monitoring software for the nForce2?

I'd love a plasma TV to plug this little beasty into...

[insomniac]

"I've an annoying "hum" from my HDTV speakers (yes, not plugged into the receiver yet) ONLY when the PC is plugged into the HDTV, PC audio out plugs into the HDTV, and electrical power is connected to PC. PC power doesn't have to be on. This may be a grounding issue. Help? "

Usually always a cheap power supply on the pc that causes that. I had the same problem in 2 locations. The quick fix for me was to put the pc on a different power socket than the receiver. Luckily i had 2 different circuits near, so that worked out well. You can also look for and try a power cord with the little noise canceling magnet on it. You will find quite a few of them back from the day...

GL! It really pissed me off for quite some time

I.

Originally posted by sleight42
Finished building and setting up Sage on my Shuttle SN41G2V2.

Notes:

• It's not silent but it is terribly quiet. I can't measure the noise level but I can hardly hear a thing from it while sitting on the couch about 10 feet away. I have absolutely no complaints in this department.
• The XP 2500+ is definitely overkill. I'm maxing out at about 30% CPU usage.
• Sage looks GREAT on a 43" TV at 800x600 less loss of overscan (mine is a 4x3 so I'm not using 720i or 1080i)
• Love the DVD player.
• Hate having to switch from "Source" to "16x9" when watching a DVD. Is there some way to default the DVD Player to 16x9 and normal recordigns to "Source"?
• Experiencing some "lag" with Sage Client only when I hit pause. Sage Client is unresponsive for a few seconds and then control returns as normal.
• I've an annoying "hum" from my HDTV speakers (yes, not plugged into the receiver yet) ONLY when the PC is plugged into the HDTV, PC audio out plugs into the HDTV, and electrical power is connected to PC. PC power doesn't have to be on. This may be a grounding issue. Help?

[davey_fl]

forgetting component out on the video card and using vga to my 15"lcd, what's the lowest end radeon you could go with for a client and still get decent performance? 9200? 9600?

thx

[stanger89]

With Overlay, probably any Radeon although the DX9 ones may give slightly better PQ.

With VMR9, I'd say a 9600Pro.

Of course to a standard LCD a Geforce FX would work as good or better, maybe a 5700 (not LE or XT).

[sleight42]

Originally posted by insomniac

Usually always a cheap power supply on the pc that causes that. I had the same problem in 2 locations. The quick fix for me was to put the pc on a different power socket than the receiver. Luckily i had 2 different circuits near, so that worked out well. You can also look for and try a power cord with the little noise canceling magnet on it. You will find quite a few of them back from the day...

GL! It really pissed me off for quite some time

I.

I believe I have it licked. I'm plugged into my UPS now and have a ground loop on the audio. I'm not sure that it's perfect but it's much better.

[davey_fl]

did dx9 support start at the 9600? I'd just be using overlay as I always find there is too much tearing with vmr9. What about the 3d accelerated gui in sage? Would that suffer from a lower card?

thx

[stanger89]

The 9500/9700 cores were the first to support DX9, FWIW my Radeon 9500 non-pro 275MHz core 270MHz 128-bit memory (64Mb) can't do VMR9 w/o tearing. Although I will say that the tearing seems much less noticeable with Catalyst 4.7. Which card shouldn't make too much difference as far as 3D accelleration of the GUI, but in general I wouldn't get a non-DX9 card anymore.

[davey_fl]

thx for the advice. I'll go for a 9600 pro 128mb.

davey