Next gen HD300 replacement?

[wayner]

I either have AVRs or I just use TV for audio. When you have an AVR you need multiple remotes anyhow.

I currently use two types of Harmony remotes - these both use RF to communicate to a hub and the hub fires IR or BT commands to your components. The hub also has a couple of IR emitters that you can use if you want. Not requiring LoS for remotes is a big benefit.

The Smart Hub is generally less than $100 on sale. It has a small remote without a screen. While this is a bit of a limitation the remote fits nicely in your hand. One downside is that some commands require a long press.

I also have several of the Ultimate remote. These are much more expensive and have a screen that helps for custom buttons and selecting Activities, like "Watch SageTV" and you can include the SageTV logo.

These hub based remotes also can be controlled by an app on a phone/tablet so if you can't find the remote, that is of benefit. And they have a somewhat open API so third-party devices/services can be integrated - like Alexa.

Smart home controllers like Control4 are the ultimate but are expensive and complex. You can use a variety of input devices like wall keypad, mobile app, touchscreen device, remote control, etc, to control anything on the system, like AV components, lights, blinds, fireplace, etc. And to a certain extent any input device can control anything in the house.

[photon]

Originally Posted by wayner

For those family members you might want to try to be used HD200/HD300s as one of the few drawbacks with the Android clients is that it can have trouble with MPEG-2 content. And if their internet speed is that low then they won't get much benefit of the streaming services that an AndroidTV box would provide.

Yuck. That is the only format that is important for TV features to work. Is this true for All AndroidTV devices or just some brands. Or is at a matter of Android version the box is are running? Does the Shield have any trouble?

I would want to try it for myself first before they get one and if I get one I could let them have my HD300.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by photon

Yuck. That is the only format that is important for TV features to work. Is this true for All AndroidTV devices or just some brands. Or is at a matter of Android version the box is are running? Does the Shield have any trouble?

I would want to try it for myself first before they get one and if I get one I could let them have my HD300.

I think it is more of an issue with the playback software than the hardware. IJKPlayer works well in my tests, but is limited to stereo out. ExoPlayer does bitstreaming audio, but I can get stutters even on the SHIELD. But if I say dump several MPEG2 recordings on my tablet for watching on the plane with MX Player Pro they're fine.

I think the Harmony + Echo + OpenHAB 2 is pretty flexible. But I like to tinker when I can and it requires some tinkering to get things configured the way you want. I haven't found anything I can't do, though, but then maybe I'm just not thinking big enough for home automation.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

I think the Harmony + Echo + OpenHAB 2 is pretty flexible. But I like to tinker when I can and it requires some tinkering to get things configured the way you want. I haven't found anything I can't do, though, but then maybe I'm just not thinking big enough for home automation.

Most of this stuff does require a bit of tinkering as everyone's needs and hardware are slightly different. But pretty much everyone on this forum is an order of magnitude "geekier" than the average person and likes playing around with this stuff. But for non-technical people it can be an issue when you have to "reboot the light switch"

Even something that sounds simple, like replacing components can be a lot of work. IMHO the biggest pain is when you want to change your AVR in a system with several inputs. You have a lot of cabling to begin with if you have 5.1 (or more) speakers, plus HDMI connections. Then you have custom input naming and configuring on the AVR. And then reprogamming the remote control, HA system, etc.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by wayner

Smart home controllers like Control4 are the ultimate but are expensive and complex. You can use a variety of input devices like wall keypad, mobile app, touchscreen device, remote control, etc, to control anything on the system, like AV components, lights, blinds, fireplace, etc. And to a certain extent any input device can control anything in the house.

Or something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=aZhSPp4tDvM (Start around 4:06)

[TwistedMelon]

Originally Posted by will

[*]I use a sound bar that I keep set at 100% volume so I can control the volume through SageTV.

Keep sources set to 100% volume (or "line-out"/"volume lock" setting if available), adjust output on external pre-amplification stage.

An HDMI switcher with optical output would solve your issues if you're not interested in moving to an AVR/AVP. Look at Monoprice for parts that won't cost an arm and a leg.

Today, even when dealing with proprietary bluetooth devices, it's possible for a single remote to operate everything quite seamlessly.

Originally Posted by wayner

The Smart Hub is generally less than $100 on sale.

I just picked one up, WITH bundled remote, on eBay last night for $51 shipped. Plan to use the hub as an IP/BT gateway as discussed, along with my URC MX-5000.

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

Or something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=aZhSPp4tDvM (Start around 4:06)

They haven't given official word, but that spot is likely dead in the water. AFAIK, no mention of it this year and no planned release date.

Originally Posted by photon

(MPEG-2) Yuck. That is the only format that is important for TV features to work.

Plex doesn't have any issues with OTA MPEG-2 recordings from Sage. Video and audio play Direct, but are "transcoded" out of the container by the server when streaming out to the client (according to the details display).

EXOPlayer (2) in Sage has issues with some channels and not with others. ExoPlayer is also what Plex is using, but they've yet to update to version 2.

Originally Posted by wayner

Most of this stuff does require a bit of tinkering as everyone's needs and hardware are slightly different. But pretty much everyone on this forum is an order of magnitude "geekier" than the average person and likes playing around with this stuff.

Sometimes even the tinkerers want something that "just works" at least for a significant proportion of the solution. There's only so much tinkering time and there are always way too many ideas/projects. I looked extensively at OpenHAB which Karyl mentioned and it sounds super flexible with great support - but I just can't see myself spending the time and investing the brain power to set it up and get it the way I want.

[wayner]

All of this stuff is great in theory but not so easy to do in the real world. The Nvidia Spot was announced at CES 2017 - that is now 12.5 months ago. But it isn't shipping yet. And that is the easy part. The hard part is then integrating all of your devices at the back end - like your garage door opener, your blinds, your coffee maker, etc.

I know all of this as I have been living on this bleeding edge.

And then something like this happens - Chamberlain MyQ changes their API for some reason so your garage door integration stops working. After a month a new driver is released so you can buy that for $200 to get that functionality back. Or the functionality never comes back because their lawyers don't like the legal risk of letting you close a garage door when you aren't physically present.

Or you want to integrate your Philips Hue lights into the system. But your Hue hub is V1 and it doesn't work with the newer systems because the security was insufficient so you have to buy a new hub.

Or your Hunter Douglas blinds are a few years old and you want to upgrade from the Hunter Douglas Platinum hub to a Hunter Douglas Powerview Hub. But you can't retrofit stuff and even if you could you would have to buy a new hub for $100 plus a new driver for your HA system at $200.

Or you have a new Carrier Infinity thermostat that you can control on your phone via the Carrier Infinity app so it obviously has IP connectivity. But if you want to integrate it into the rest of your HA system you need to buy a serial interface (what is this 1967 in an RS232 world!) to connect to the net.

Apple announced their HomeKit system in the fall of 2014 but the system has still yet to take off since it is very tricky to integrate everything together.

Google bought Nest four years ago now but that continues to be an acquisition that struggles and Google is trying to figure out what to do with nest.

So this stuff is tricky to do, expensive, and it requires know-how. That's why many of the more sophisticated systems are dealer-based. 95% of the time only a dealer should do this stuff, but for 5% of us hard-core geeks we would like to do it ourselves.

[TwistedMelon]

Ah, sounds like the Control4 Gravy Train. Use Ethernet relays for everything. No firmware updates to worry about.

WRT Google, they're a mess and there's little to no hope of them ever putting together an organizational strategy, let alone a branding strategy, that's going to work or compete with Apple and Amazon. It's not in their DNA as the entire company is like a giant open field of chickens without heads running around. Classic left hand not knowing what the right is doing.

I'll eventually replace my Nest with something else. IMO, it's not a good thermostat and the app is buggy AF (set specific schedule come back tomorrow and every change except 1 random one is gone). What drives me the most crazy about it however is the slack in the temperature setting/reading. The dial spins and clicks multiple times between every 0.5 degree, so you never know what your setting actually is. I'm constantly having to dick with it.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

Ah, sounds like the Control4 Gravy Train. Use Ethernet relays for everything. No firmware updates to worry about.

That works for door openers but not for a lot of the other stuff like Hue, etc. And that only provides basic control on/off control. And then you may still want sensors for stuff like garage doors to know the current state.

I don't begrudge the folks writing the drivers because you want to get paid for the 10 hours that you spent writing the driver. But there isn't a large enough base yet to make it economical for most folks.

[photon]

Originally Posted by wayner

What's the big deal about changing sources? It can be a bit slow and take a few seconds but if you are only doing it occasionally it isn't a big deal.

But I do agree that having multiple sources can add to the complexity - I don't want my 84 year old mom to have more than one source. But as long as you know what you are doing that isn't a big deal.

I had a wonderful response written that covered far more than this post but I took too long to write it and the forum could not post it and in the end it was lost. I can't recreate it. I always get logged out before I can post a message. So this will be shorter and less complete.

As you state for some people simplicity is important. I have a family of them. SageTV with the SageMC UI is visually simple, with little to remember that isn't presented to you on screen right when and where you need it and has become essential for my non technical family.

My TV is from the early days of LCD big screens and has one major flaw. Changing HDMI inputs takes about as long as it takes to fill a water pitcher at the kitchen sink. You have to go through them sequentially. No direct access.
My Yamaha receiver with it's learning remote is the key for us. It does the HDMI switching and remote control of all devices including HD300. All of the receivers HDMI inputs are filled so I can't add an AndroidTV device. It would have to replace the HD300.

My Research sofar indicates the the Android TV boxes which are good candidates for sage use a 2.4GHz RF remote with few buttons because controls are on screen for clicking on. Only navigation and selection is needed on the remote to operate Android TV. I don't know of a universal remote that can do both 2.4 GHz Android TV and IR for everything else. The Reveal Android TV box has a remote that gets closest with a good selection of programmable extra buttons but it is still short of my needs.

I understand that the only way to use an IR remote to operate Android TV boxes that don't have builtin IR is with a USB flirc. I gather from the forum that IR control doesn't perform as well on Android TV as it normally does with non Android TV devices. Also that nobody has ALL of the essential SageTV buttons working: up, down, left, right, select, play, pause, stop, skip short, skip long, options, back, and info.

So it appears Android TV is not a good fit at this time but I really would like to at least try it out.

[wayner]

Some of the AndroidTV boxes do have builtin IR without a USB flirc - the MiBox does and the original Shield does - but you would have to buy that used.

One other thing to consider is a HDMI switch from Monoprice which are pretty cheap and also use IR. That way your TV doesn't have to resync and/or you can add another source to your AVR. But it adds additional complexity and it may not be easy to add that in to your remote control.

[photon]

Originally Posted by wayner

Some of the AndroidTV boxes do have builtin IR without a USB flirc - the MiBox does and the original Shield does - but you would have to buy that used.

One other thing to consider is a HDMI switch from Monoprice which are pretty cheap and also use IR. That way your TV doesn't have to resync and/or you can add another source to your AVR. But it adds additional complexity and it may not be easy to add that in to your remote control.

Does the older Shield which has built in IR work better through IR than the new Shield with Flirc?
Do all of the essential SageTV buttons I listed work on the older Shield but quite all on the newer Shield with Flirc?

[wayner]

I am not sure - I don't have a Shield but I do have a MiBox - but I don't use it for Sage all that much since I have a lot of extenders.

It also may depend on what you consider essential buttons. For me the most important buttons, other than the total obvious ones, are SkipFwd and SkipFwdx2. Other folks may never use those at all. Some may consider Aspect Ratio important, but I almost never use that.

[photon]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am not sure - I don't have a Shield but I do have a MiBox - but I don't use it for Sage all that much since I have a lot of extenders.

It also may depend on what you consider essential buttons. For me the most important buttons, other than the total obvious ones, are SkipFwd and SkipFwdx2. Other folks may never use those at all. Some may consider Aspect Ratio important, but I almost never use that.

Good point. For me the essential SageTV buttons working: up, down, left, right, select, play, pause, stop, skip short, skip long, options, back, and info.

I gather that the back button and the options buttons are the ones reported to be a problem using Flirc.

[will]

Originally Posted by wayner

All of this stuff is great in theory but not so easy to do in the real world. The Nvidia Spot was announced at CES 2017 - that is now 12.5 months ago. But it isn't shipping yet. And that is the easy part.

That demo video looked great, especially at the end when the couple was casually interacting with the Google AI to find something to watch then seamlessly switching between photos and TV.

Does anyone actually use the Google Assistant in the Shield to find and launch content in lue of the remote (like not just something you use once and a while because it is cool but every single day and you get mad when you have to use the remote)?

Everything they show seems very doable with current tech but also very far off.

[wayner]

So many of these things are doable and seem cool but aren't necessarily practical in a real world situation.

Two examples:
With HA systems you can create a "wake up" routine. You could have it turn on the radio or TV, open up the bedroom blinds, turn on the bedroom fireplace (if its winter), turn on the lights, even use Hue to change the color of lights to simulate sunrise. That's fine if you live alone but what if you have a spouse that doesn't get up at the same time as you do you're not going to use it.

You can also have a "come home" routine that is kicked off by a geofence turns on lights, TV, etc when you get home from work in the evening. But once again that doesn't work if you have a family who have manually turned on lights, TVs, radios, etc.

[TwistedMelon]

On Shield, which has Assistant, it's much faster to use voice search when you need to find something than to try and type. The big issue is that it doesn't work everywhere. Only some apps have in-app voice search and Assistant doesn't work with all apps either. For example, it can be used globally to find video content in Plex, but doesn't work at all with music (in-app voice search does).

There will however be weeks where I don't use it at all - it depends on the content I'm consuming.

[wayner]

For voice search for music you can use Echo Dots connected to better amps/speakers. At <$50 each that is cheap and easy and you can now do multi-room music. So you can issue voice commands in your kitchen that play music on the Dot connected to your Matrix amp in the basement that is wired to speakers in the kitchen or throughout the house.

[TwistedMelon]

Not going to get into yet another platform. The only reason I have any voice search at all is because of the Shield and it's not something my family or I are head-over-heals with in general. My wife and I never use Siri for example, despite having iPhones since forever.

Right now I use Logitech Music Server primarily for music - going on 12 years in fact. When I fire up iPeng (a player/controller app) on any iOS device and select my main Squeezebox as the player, the server will send commands over IP to turn on my AVP and set it to the correct input. Adjusting volume in the app also gets the server to adjust the AVP's volume, so it's all pretty seamless. But no voice control (and no sign of that changing any time soon). I'm OK with that. I can always use the Shield with Plex for music with voice if I need to, including volume control relayed via CEC.

Just about to text ExoPlayer 2 in Plex's new beta - it'll be interesting if this brings any new bugs that match Exo's behavior in the Sage miniclient. I'm almost hopeful it does because it would be more likelihood of getting them addressed.

[wayner]

I have used iPhones for years but rarely use Siri, but I found Alexa to be very useful, especially when integrated into my Home Automation system. "Alex, kitchen lights on", "Alexa bedroom blinds down" or "Alexa basement lights off" is super useful. If I didn't have the HA system I wouldn't use it nearly as much, but I also use it for playing music, shopping list ("Alex add milk to the shopping list") and setting times while cooking, etc. My 9 year old has become an expert at using Alexa for music.