What is the next generation of client - can we create the HD-400?

[Wayneb]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

I still recommend it all the time, especially for folks that want to cut the cord and are in antenna range. I also recommend it to folks that are running on the old Charter Cable system - with a HDHR Prime it's quite an exceptional combination. With the 64bit server and numerous HD300's in the house, I've been able to run Gemstone and make SageTV look the way I like.

This is coming from an old guy, but I like to see a linear list of my media, whether it be recordings or movies - you can put so much more info in front of the user all at once that you can with a single picture. I guess that picture format is all most folks understand anymore.

One of the greatest issues that I see with SageTV today is remote access. I can no longer get the miniclient to respond properly at the password/login screen on any Android devices.

I am also an old guy, I am in my 60's, I like well made graphical user interfaces. The problem with recommending SageTV is that we are heading towards a new standard that will obsolete the HD300 extenders.

I would recommend a Tablo or a HDhomerun Servio product to someone for OTA use as it is a lot easier for most people to use and doesn't require setting up a server.

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

I would also support a crowd sourced effort.

Can we run a poll on this Board and find out how many people would be interested?

+1

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

I still recommend it all the time, especially for folks that want to cut the cord and are in antenna range. I also recommend it to folks that are running on the old Charter Cable system - with a HDHR Prime it's quite an exceptional combination. With the 64bit server and numerous HD300's in the house, I've been able to run Gemstone and make SageTV look the way I like.

This is coming from an old guy, but I like to see a linear list of my media, whether it be recordings or movies - you can put so much more info in front of the user all at once that you can with a single picture. I guess that picture format is all most folks understand anymore.

One of the greatest issues that I see with SageTV today is remote access. I can no longer get the miniclient to respond properly at the password/login screen on any Android devices.

Extenders here completely meet our needs and just work. I’m not expecting 4K sat here anytime soon in Canada so not worried there - certainly not without me replacing receivers which I already own. Still use my 3d TV for 3D blurays so not rushing out to buy a 4K tv either.

There is still the fundamental issue of how a new extender would be supported in some way shape or form - bugs and issues happen - even when going with a more open OS like Linux versus something like Android.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by SteveW

There is still the fundamental issue of how a new extender would be supported in some way shape or form - bugs and issues happen - even when going with a more open OS like Linux versus something like Android.

That is a real problem, because any of these systems require continuous maintenance. Stuckless did a great job with the miniclient, but we can only expect so much from someone donating their time.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wnjj

I think that is a bit of a contradiction. The reason Android is failing for so many is because nobody is there to support it AND it gets “updates“ that break stuff. The fact that the Linux OS in the HD300 stays the same is why it will continue to work the same. Plus at least as of now there are more Linux or Windows capable people still around. You were the only Android developer that I know of. Honestly it looked pretty intimidating from what I read.

Is there an easy way to bundle a fixed version of Android that will stay indefinitely, along with a convenient way to install SageTV?

Now if new features or bug fixes are needed on a new extender it may require an OS update but then the support is from whomever is adding the feature. Windows on a nuc may also want to update itself but again I think the odds of someone being able to support it is higher.

To be fair, I don't know a single windows developer, but I'm sure they exist, and because I don't know any, doesn't mean they likely don't exist or are few... it just means that I run in difference circles

I agree that using a roll your linux base could be better, but, I did for a project that I happen to be working on this weekend (not a video project). And sadly, I spend almost as much time fine tuning the linux os than I do on the actual software. And it's because of that I'm moving this project to an arduino, since, I only want to focus on the software aspects and not the OS.

If I were still active with sagetv I'd still be pushing out updates to the app as new versions of exoplayer were released, etc.

The notion that "android" is the problem here, is somewhat flawed. You guys have a fully capable miniclient today, written to work on top of linux. It's not Android... it just uses a little bit of java and mplayer. The problem isn't the software or the skills, it's the shrinking community. Someone could easily take that, upgrade mplayer, and get it running on a low cost upboard, or, maybe even a PI, but it takes are huge amount of effort to do this.

The HD300, if I recall, Jeff basically wrote his own video player for that dedicated to the hardware. That is no small feat, and I couldn't imagine doing that personally, if i could use a library to playback the video.

[NetworkGuy]

Originally Posted by stuckless

You could pay someone to build this, let's say you raised 200K and someone decided to build it. Then what? Who supports it? Who supports the server, since, that is the most important and neglected part here.

Stuckless is right. I think the real question is how many people would be willing to pay an annual fee to maintain support of a client on different platforms (i.e. Android, IOS, or Roku).

And how much would you be willing to pay?

[timg11]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

.... or Roku.....

That's an interesting suggestion I hadn't thought of. Create SageTV client as a channel on Roku. I looked around developer.roku.com, and it looks like it is possible to create a "non-certified channel" that is published to a "small circulation" (sounds like the SageTV community).

Their highest end player, the Roku Ultra, is $100 -- Inexpensive compared to alternatives like the NUC. I use one for Netflix and Amazon, and it is fine for what it is. The only issue I see is the "minimalist" remote might not have enough buttons for SageTV without resorting to on-screen sub-menus.

I don't know enough about the client architecture to know if there are technical show-stoppers in porting over the existing clients to their platform.

[emveepee]

The issue isn't just the shrinking community it is the requirement to have the current SageTV GUI on the client. Even if SageTV had the best recording engine in the world I can't imagine any new developers being attracted to that use case.

The simple solution for hardware (except Roku) years ago would have been to build a Kodi PVR interface but that is not what you guys want.

Martin

[mechling-burgh]

Actually I don't know that everyone is against a kodi extender idea. But what was involved in getting the next pvr to be a recording engine for kodi ? If we tried to do this would the favorites and such still work the kodi. Could we use there scraper to get the fan art instead of bmt? Just curious how hard it was for you to get next pvr working with kodi

[wayner]

Originally Posted by emveepee

The issue isn't just the shrinking community it is the requirement to have the current SageTV GUI on the client.

What even is the SageTV GUI? Since it came out I have used Gemstone (FKA Diamond) as my UI. Before that I used the SageMC UI - and we still get people popping up asking about that UI. What percentage of SageTV users even use the default Sage UI?

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by wayner

Since it came out I have used Gemstone (FKA Diamond) as my UI.

FWIW, I, too, have only used Gemstone.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by wayner

What even is the SageTV GUI? Since it came out I have used Gemstone (FKA Diamond) as my UI. Before that I used the SageMC UI - and we still get people popping up asking about that UI. What percentage of SageTV users even use the default Sage UI?

It's the UI SageTV serves to its client. What I am speculating is users don't want a client for Sage TV that that has the Kodi or jellyfin UI, you want to see Gemstone, Phoenix or whatever on a client.

Martin

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by mechling-burgh

Actually I don't know that everyone is against a kodi extender idea. But what was involved in getting the next pvr to be a recording engine for kodi ? If we tried to do this would the favorites and such still work the kodi. Could we use there scraper to get the fan art instead of bmt? Just curious how hard it was for you to get next pvr working with kodi

The Kodi client side is easy, it really depends on what the remote web server API offers. I offered to help out in 2015 but the poll I took didn't show much interest in Kodi just a lot of interest in the hd300 like clients. At that time I was much for optimistic about the future of SageTV not sure it is worth any effort now.

For Kodi you end up with a generic interface so Sage specific recording rules might need need to be down outside Kodi. Art and metadata comre from the server if you use the PVR engine but you do have the option of watching your recordings in the Kodi Movie and TV libraries to use their scraping engine.

Martin

[VCRUser]

Originally Posted by wayner

What even is the SageTV GUI? Since it came out I have used Gemstone (FKA Diamond) as my UI. Before that I used the SageMC UI - and we still get people popping up asking about that UI. What percentage of SageTV users even use the default Sage UI?

I use the default (with Malore); setting up Gemstone just seems like more trouble than I need to go through - particularly since it seems (maybe I'm mistaken, since I haven't actually tried it) to focus on fanart, which for me, is just a resource drain, since I prefer a straightforward list of shows & episodes - the more text-based and compact the better.

[RonBoyd]

I suppose I am kind of an outlier here. I have absolutely no knowledge of programming beyond Booting up the computer. Nevertheless, I can bring the non-technical user's experience to the table.

First, let me say that my claiming to be a novice is not completely accurate except in the sense that I am not a "tweaker." I have had our "home theater" for some fifteen years now and personal computers for over thirty. (But have never subscribed to cable/sat -- we have 80+ OTA channels available here.)

I am, however, an experimenter. I have the following equipment (playing through a Yamaha Rx-A3030 AVR to a Vizio PQ-65 TV):

HD-300, ROKU Ultra, nVidia Shield, AirTV, Tablo Quad, FireTV Cube, HDHomeRun Sevio, 10) SiliconDust Tuners, and an ATT Osprey Box.

I subscribe to the following services: HULU, PRIME, AMC Premier, Showtime, HOB Max, Netflix, Disney+, CBS All Access, Starz, Britbox, Acorn, PBS Passport, VIDGO and ATT TV NOW (i started in the original BETA group when it was called DirecTV NOW which included the Osprey Box).

The software used is: Channels DVR, PlayOn, SageTV, HDHomeRun, LiveChannels, Select TV, EMBY, PLEX, and KODI. (I may be forgetting some.)

A number of these devices/SW can record OTA programming but I dual record with TABLO and SageTV (for redundancy purposes). I Prefer playback with SageTV because of better visual Closed Captioning. I prefer TABLO because of the better Forward/Reverse handling. I have no problem using PLEX... it is just something I forget about most of the time. No other programing/devices are considered at this time (lack of performance).

I use PlayOn exclusively to record streaming media that has commercials (non-commercial I play straight from the source.) I playback with the PlayOn Player which does a fantastic job of commercial skipping.

Now, to my point. I have a problem with KODI in that it takes too much thinking on my part (all the above are basically PnP). Every time I tell myself I have to get a handle on KODI, I get lost in the weeds and just give up. For whatever reason I just can't make it work for me. Perhaps it is that I am <play the old man card> approaching 80 years old but KODI is an anomaly for me.

Bottom line: I want an updated (technologically) STV to be like it has been -- user friendly for the novice but easily adjustable to those more experienced. I probably explained this poorly but there you are.