STV: Cayars17 Ultimate STV (Release 17 - Jan 18)

[Crashless]

Agreed. I'd recommend all developers setup a paypal donation site. People around here are honest enough, if they used a lot of someone else's work in their own, I'm sure they'd redistribute it to the people who deserve it.

[phatjew]

We should also clear this with the Sage guys. They may have reservations about other people making money on their product. Or maybe they'd just want some kick-backs. =^)

[mls]

Originally Posted by Cayars

This too isn't in my current stv. Better check to make sure you're current.

Regarding posts 608 and 609... Downloaded file was Cayars12.zip

Detailed Setup->Advanced->Application Definition shows Cayars12.stv

It has to be 12 because the deal with mini-guide and DVD play is now corrected.

Are you mixing up what you're putting in the download zip file again somehow?

[Deadbolt]

Wondering if anyone has seen this symptom w/ 2.1 and Cayar's STV Rel 10:
My system is trying to write to a drive that has 0 space left! I have the drive setup as umc drive map...never had this problem before. I don't know what changed! I have the drive set to leave 4 GB free.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by phatjew

We should also clear this with the Sage guys. They may have reservations about other people making money on their product. Or maybe they'd just want some kick-backs. =^)

But you already "purchased" the part of the code with their work in it, so i'm not sure what's to check on.

I'm a little uncomfortable with donation on the STV itself. Not that I wouldn't mind but, I don't want to come across as if 100% of the code is mine since it obviously isn't. Now adding stuff on request is sort of like "custom programming" so that's a little different. I suppose I could make a list of what's incorporated in the STV and let people make a contribution and say how to split it up based on how you use it or whatever. For example if you use a lot of the Malore modules then he should get a larger portion, etc...
I could setup a paypal account just for me and encorage other STV developers to do the same and then leave it up to the user to split it up how ever they want (not sure they would).

or

I could come up with some original addons tightly integrated with the STV to add additional functionality and charge a small price for it. Maybe have a free and paid version of such modules. I've given some thought to this over the last couple of days and here are some ideas. Feel free to p*ss on my cereal if you don't like the ideas. Tell me what you like and don't like so I don't waste time and effort of things people won't like.

CD/MP3 Ripping
DVD Burning
Real-Time commercial detection (timebar updates as commercials are found)
Ability to automatically cut MPG files based on comm detection.
Transcoding of MPGs to DivX with database updatings (SageTV gets adjusted information).
Queue management for commercial detection, cut management and transcoding.
Security addon based with user login. Create Dynamic menus based on the logged in user. Ability to control access to favorites, move to library, scheduling, delete, etc...

Do any of these things sound like they would be worth contributing for? Any other ideas? I'm open to any ideas.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Wondering if anyone has seen this symptom w/ 2.1 and Cayar's STV Rel 10:
My system is trying to write to a drive that has 0 space left! I have the drive setup as umc drive map...never had this problem before. I don't know what changed! I have the drive set to leave 4 GB free.

Welcome to 2.1 my friend. It seems to ignore the setting to leave X amount free. Try it in the OriginalV2.stv and you'll see the same thing. I've put a bug report in on this. It might have something to do with another bug in how Sage calculates recording space (doesn't take this setting into account here either). You can easy make a couple of adjustments and have SageTV report negative disk space too.

[abasu2003]

yeah, I noticed that too. The disk space left has nothing to do with how big you set your allowed size for a folder. But its not the free space on the harddrive either. I think its the capacity of the hard drive, minus the space that the recordings are taking up.

Very strange.

[abasu2003]

CD/MP3 Ripping
DVD Burning
Real-Time commercial detection (timebar updates as commercials are found)
Ability to automatically cut MPG files based on comm detection.
Transcoding of MPGs to DivX with database updatings (SageTV gets adjusted information).
Queue management for commercial detection, cut management and transcoding.
Security addon based with user login. Create Dynamic menus based on the logged in user. Ability to control access to favorites, move to library, scheduling, delete, etc...

hmmm. So I have lots of interest in all of these and was under the impression (or just hoping really hard) that eventually someone would make all of these things (except the security thing for the users). now, am i willing to pay for it?

price is definitely an issue, and i dont' really feel like making an offer and upsetting someone. i'm sure if it was reasonable i'd be willing to pay.

if this does happen, i wonder how its going to affect the rest of the STV programmers...

[Hector]

Originally Posted by Cayars

Well now, I wouldn't say that. You might be suprised with some of the things I'm thinking about adding.

I wish I could just do this and make money. It would be cool to do this all day long instead of a couple hours here or there...

Well I won't make THAt mistake again, heh.

Quite honestly there should be able a way to parlay this into something profitable. I understand there is a collaborative aspect at the base but that being said this is probably the most advanced PVR interface is in the world, esp with what I expect can be done in the future.

From a business POV it would be a mistake to think of Sage as only a TV based PVR. With the skills to design the interface you can obviously reveal as little or as much as you want. There might be some vertical markets for custom solutions for video libraries or stuff like that. Custom interface and you sell the the entire solution, there might be some money in that.

peace . . .

[thomaszoo]

I would like an option for Sage to mark a show as watched by default when I delete it without having to scroll through other choices and select to have it set as watched. This would seem to support one of the big advantages of Sage (remembering shows that I have already watched) over most, if not all, other products!

Originally Posted by Hector

I agree. One of the first things you notice Tivo-->Sage is that it's more of a pain to delete shows.

As rsagetv99 points out it's not automatic deletion just easier because you can make your keep/delete/archive decision at the end of viewing. The default selection is NO and you have to explicitly make the decision to delete it.

Now if people in your house are deliberately deleting your shows, then you probably have bigger issues that even Cayars can solve, heh.

peace . . .

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I would like an option for Sage to mark a show as watched by default when I delete it without having to scroll through other choices and select to have it set as watched. This would seem to support one of the big advantages of Sage (remembering shows that I have already watched) over most, if not all, other products!

Or at least when the Delete options pop-up (see my previous request) the default highlighted item would be the Delete and Set Watched. I concur that this is what I end up doing with most of my shows.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by abasu2003

hmmm. So I have lots of interest in all of these and was under the impression (or just hoping really hard) that eventually someone would make all of these things (except the security thing for the users). now, am i willing to pay for it?

I'm glad you said that. I'm sure a lot of people will feel this way to! I don't mean this in a negative way but some people will feel thay they paid for SageTV and anything they see/read here about STVs/addons should be free.

Other people for example would prefer to spend (throwing out a number) $25 bucks and have a drop-in integrated transcoding feature that converts MPGs to DivX in the background (or network computer) and automatically changes the database file name and size information. For some people this is a much better proposition then trying to setup ffmpeg and dealing with all it's configuration details and not having a source of "support" to help with it.

Some of the things I mentioned in the list of possibilities can probably be done via 3rd party addons (similar to the ffmpeg example above). I'm just tossing out ideas to get feedback. People have been asking how to contribute financially (mostly by PMs) and I'm trying to figure out a way that is good for everyone.

I'm open for suggestions, so please contribute.

price is definitely an issue, and i dont' really feel like making an offer and upsetting someone. i'm sure if it was reasonable i'd be willing to pay.

if this does happen, i wonder how its going to affect the rest of the STV programmers...

Price is always a factor. I think reasonable is the key here. If you could pick up something and just drop it into your sage directory and instantly be able to burn DVDs with menus etc for $15 that is either reasonable or $15 to high.

I too worry about how this COULD affect other STV programmers. It will either cause everyone to start charging for anything half way decent OR it could step up the pace and evolution of the product as a whole.

For example, a lot of people who try and use the Music Jukebox complain about it and call for a re-write of that. At present I don't think anyone would be willing to step up to the plate and tackle this as it's a LOT of work. If however they knew they could sell it as an add-on for $20 and if it's done really well then they will sell a lot of copies and the HTPC will become a lot more powerful for a $20 investment.

I think my take on it at present for my STV is that anything built on the foundation is part of a free version (as the STV is now) but exteme additions COULD be charged for or requested for as donation-ware or something similar. I'm just throwing this all out for comments and ideas.

The positive side is that I've been spending 2 hours/day coding this and look how far/how fast it's been coming along. If I knew there was some money to be made (and the wife knows, so she'd get off my back about spending so much time on this!) then the rate of improvements would increase as I'd have more time to work on it.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I would like an option for Sage to mark a show as watched by default when I delete it without having to scroll through other choices and select to have it set as watched. This would seem to support one of the big advantages of Sage (remembering shows that I have already watched) over most, if not all, other products!

You can do this in my STV when ever you hit the delete button, if I understand you correctly.

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by Cayars

You can do this in my STV when ever you hit the delete button, if I understand you correctly.

I was just about to post about this too.. I think they (and I) when in the detailed info section, when you hit the delete menu button it pops up a window that give you like 4 choices. Right now the default is "cancel", I think. I have to scroll up 3-4 items to get to " Delete" It would be nice
if "delete" or "delete and set watched" was the default. Can we do this with your STV (how?)??? That's what I'm asking for.

Oh.. and great job BTW on the STV

THanks,

Jim

[Cayars]

I originally did this but I got into trouble on my own system doing this. If you ever get a system pause and hit the enter key/select remote button twice then it blows right past the prompt and does the default which may not be what you really wanted. This is why it defaults to the "Cancel".

BTW, if you just want a regular "delete" instead of going up three times just go down one time.

[SteveP]

Cayars, DVD recording with menus sounds like an interesting item to add and charge for. I could then offload my more permanent material to DVD and free up internal disk space.

Steve

[Cayars]

A Bunch of people have asked for this (DVD Burning). I myself really don't think it's that useful since you can normally only get one show on a DVD without compressing it down.

To me what would be much more valuable would be an "Offline Archive". It would allow you to optionally cut out commercials (based on other things mentioned above) then transcode to DivX. I typically find that a High Quality DivX transcode (Using Dr. DivX) only uses 1/7 the space of the MPG. It would take the show information and dump it to an XML file. The DivX and XML file could then be burned to CD or DVD. In the case of DVDs you could archive 5-10 shows on a DVD.

The DVD itself wouldn't be playable in a standard DVD player but could be played on any computer with a DivX codec. It could also be inserted in the SageTV machine and loaded/moved back to the hard drive or played from the DVD/CD.

It's even possible to build a library database just for these disks. It could hold all your shows/movies and if you decided to watch "TopGun" it could prompt you to insert disk 43.

It could probably even "re-master/organize" some disks for you. Say you have a laptop and are going on a business trip and want to watch some Tom Cruise movies. You could select "Top Gun", "Days of Thunder", "Cocktail" and "Rain Man" from the library and it would prompt you to load the 4 indivual disk so it could copy them to the hard drive. It would then prompt you to insert a fresh DVD. It would then copy these to the new DVD and bingo. A traveling "Tom Cruise" disk.

A little imagination and you could probably find other uses for this too.

This type of functionality isn't for everyone but it could be quite nice if you like to keep every show/movie that's any good for later viewing.

[justme]

EDIT>Just for context: This message(and it's thoughts) were started before the post above was made. I have this habit of typing too slow and too long <EDIT
DVD burning would be may fav as well. I've been pushing for this one forever, or at least it seems like it.

To be honest, the issue of money makes me very wary. There has already been one time in the past when a STV maker almost imposed a license due to percieved(I thought it was improper, but it was a grey area) improper use. I understand(I read your post above about other STV makers contributions deserving fair credit) you are talking solely about pure creations of yours', but I'm still uneasy.

For instance if you did something like DVD burning, it would likely use some opensource or even maybe even commercial software. The use of commercial software(assuming the user paid for it) is a nonissue to me morally, but... The use of any opensource software(in a package you ask money for) would cause a moral dilemma, for me. I've already donated* to several tools that would likely be used by a DVD burning proccess, but other people may not have donated to these projects. I'm not trying to minimize any effort that you would put into intergrating all this into a great/simple drop-in addon, but it brings me back to the issue of making sure all people/projects involved got what they deserve.

I don't know. I'm just kind of rambling and of course the one concern I talked about above could be a nonissue. For all I know you may be able to code your own burning and/or DVD menu/structure programs. Or you could use commercials app for you addon. I guess what I'm getting at is like almost everything I buy( or donate to, as the case may be) software wise, I'd have to try it first(I set a MUCH higher standard for anything that requests money than is pure opensource/donationware). Of course this puts you in an awkward position. Since without a reasonable assurance of an eventual financial incentive it would likely severely decrease the desirablity of coding such an addon.

I'm not saying any of this to try and discourage you. You ask for opinions and that's one thing I'm never short of. I guess the moral of my long ramble is that if your addons didn't use ANY free/opensource/donationware programs that someone else developed it would be something I could, at least, ethically consider donating or paying for. I really don't feel I would pay for an STV only change, it would have to be some external app that was just closely intergrated by your STV. Also I'd still check with Jeff(if you haven't already) regarding asking for money for anything that was solely STV based. I haven't looked in detail thru the Studio NDA for a long time, but it always best to get written permision first for such things. That's just my personal opinion, but at least it's honest. I just had to give some sort of feedback. I hope you find some value in something I said.


* I commonly donate $5 to $10 to opensource/donationware projects I use or wish to see expanded. However I personally usually stay away from pay software that is around the $20-$25 range. Anything over $20 has to add considerable value to even be considered. Usually there is a good opensource program that will get my $5 donation instead.

PS:This is all just my own personal feelings/ramble. It is in no way related to anything officially from Frey. I just want to make that clear, in case anyone reads this and see's the Mod title.

/justme

[Hector]

I think this makes a lot of sense.

Think of it this way. If I was searching the web and found a music player or a <insert module you've always wanted> that could be integrated with Sage right after I bought my copy I'd be posting a message here telling everyone how cool it was and that we could finally solve this problem for $20.

Of course how the future will look depends on if/when Sage releases Studio and the level of expertise it requires to write effective modules. Also how difficult it is to pilfer the work of others.

I wouldn't worry too much about what any of us say. Regardless of how great your (or anyone except MS) software is by far most people will not be contributors. If you get 100 responses with 90 naysayers and only 10 say they would buy/donate that would be excellent penetration.

Instead ask yourself 'how many copies at $X do I have to sell/be gifted on to make it worth my while to write a Music Player' (and then double it) and if it sounds like a reasonable number based on what you're hearing and you're willing to take the risk then start really digging into the needs/requirements of the 10 interested folks.

In short, don't worry how many people don't think you should charge or request donations or are simply unwilling to pay for additional functionality, just make sure enough say they will.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by Cayars

For example, a lot of people who try and use the Music Jukebox complain about it and call for a re-write of that. At present I don't think anyone would be willing to step up to the plate and tackle this as it's a LOT of work. If however they knew they could sell it as an add-on for $20 and if it's done really well then they will sell a lot of copies and the HTPC will become a lot more powerful for a $20 investment.

I think my take on it at present for my STV is that anything built on the foundation is part of a free version (as the STV is now) but exteme additions COULD be charged for or requested for as donation-ware or something similar. I'm just throwing this all out for comments and ideas.

The positive side is that I've been spending 2 hours/day coding this and look how far/how fast it's been coming along. If I knew there was some money to be made (and the wife knows, so she'd get off my back about spending so much time on this!) then the rate of improvements would increase as I'd have more time to work on it.

[rsagetv99]

Bug Report: After setting up a manual recording, when clicking the right-arrow button on the remote the screen goes to what looks like the OriginalV2.STV's Schedules screen. Then if I click the left-arrow I get back to Cayarsxx.STV screen.

Feature request: Any way to have the mini-guide start on your current channel, rather than the first channel in your lineup? This is how most mini-guides work (cable-box, satellite, etc). This would be especially helpful when channel surfing since I usually browse up from the channel I am on, change to something else, watch a little, get bored browse up, decide to see what else is on, move up a few more channels, get bored, etc... Hope this makes sense...