STV: Cayars17 Ultimate STV (Release 17 - Jan 18)

[Hector]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

Feature Requests:
1. When hitting Stop on a video that is playing (not LiveTV) SAGE goes to the "Media Libraries" menu, can it go back to the "Recording Detail" menu of the show that you were watching?

I like this behavior too. Your Tivoness is showing

3. Also in the LiveTV guide, can you change the color (or give a choice of colors) for the highlighted program, the light blue tends to blend in with all of the other blues. Maybe make it orange or something.

Do you know if you're color deficient? I only ask because I know I am and I have a lot of trouble with the light blue selection too, but most of the people I ask that see my installation feel that it's perfectly clear.

As an aside (users interfaces is my gig), since 8% of men are in some way color deficient there is some science on color schemes that are easily distinguishable to that group, if anyone is actually interested an overview can be found here here. There are also some links to color blindness tests that might surprise you since many people don't even realize they have the condition.

peace . . .

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

Here's a scenario where you might want this, and where I use it.
When I have a favorite set to record First Runs and Re-runs, if I run across an episode that I have seen before - say, before I was using SAGE - I usually bring up the Delete menu then Delete & Set Watched.

I think the options should be as follows (the names also make a little more sense to me):

• Delete & Set Watched - Deletes Episode, won't record it again. Will record different episodes.
• Delete & Set Recording Error - Deletes Episode, will record it again due to error.
• Delete & Set Don't Like - Deletes Episode, won't record anymore episodes.

Here's how they relate to your ideas from another post, your ideas are in bold...

• Delete (maybe should be called "Just Delete" or "Delete Only") Remove this one, I think you should always Delete & Do something, even if it's just setting watched.
  
• Clear Watched & Set Don't Like (this is really, "Delete, Clear Watched & Set Don't Like") <-- aka IR shouldn't record this type Same as my #3.
  
• Set Watched & Clear Don't Like (this is really, "Delete, Set Watched & Clear Don't Like") <-- aka IR should record this type Same as my #1.

Let me know what you think...

I was really trying to make sure I got the wording "Set Watched", "Clear Watched", Set Don't Like", "Clear Don't Like" in the menu choices so people know what the outcome of the delete is.

I had given thought to the "Recording Error" choice but thought this is only used infrequently and shouldn't be on the delete menu choice. Originally this screen was only available from the detail screen and one could have choosen that option directly from the menu. Now with this also being available in the OSD I'll re-think it.

What I'll probably do for the next version is add all possible choices of deletes and make it configurable as to what shows up. Let the user decide what they want.

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by Hector

I like this behavior too. Your Tivoness is showing

You caught me here, but I think there are reasons why TIVO is so popular and the 3 biggest ones that I can think of are

• [1] User Interface
  [2] User Interface
  [3] User Interface

It's not as pretty or customizable as SAGE, but most of the design decisions the TIVO developers made make a lot of sense, at least to me. Except for that whole 30 minute buffer, what were they thinking?!

Originally Posted by Hector

Do you know if you're color deficient? I only ask because I know I am and I have a lot of trouble with the light blue selection too, but most of the people I ask that see my installation feel that it's perfectly clear.

As an aside (users interfaces is my gig), since 8% of men are in some way color deficient there is some science on color schemes that are easily distinguishable to that group, if anyone is actually interested an overview can be found here here. There are also some links to color blindness tests that might surprise you since many people don't even realize they have the condition.

peace . . .

Man, even when you insult someone you get all technical, quoting studies and such - what makes you think I'm a man?

Actually, I am a man and I am not color blind. Also, my fiance' complained about the same thing without any prompting from me (she does that alot ).

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

Here's a scenario where you might want this, and where I use it.
When I have a favorite set to record First Runs and Re-runs, if I run across an episode that I have seen before - say, before I was using SAGE - I usually bring up the Delete menu then Delete & Set Watched.

How would that be different then choosing the "Set Watched & Clear Don't Like" ("Delete, Set Watched & Clear Don't Like"). The only difference is that I'm also setting the "Clear Don't Like" flag which in this case is probably a good thing.

I guess what I'm looking for are valid reasons why we would want an options, "Delete, Set Watched & Set Don't Like" & "Delete, Clear Watched & Set Like".

I can't think of any reason for the last one (maybe one of you guys can) but I think I get the "Delete, Set Watched & Set Don't Like" option.

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by Cayars

I was really trying to make sure I got the wording "Set Watched", "Clear Watched", Set Don't Like", "Clear Don't Like" in the menu choices so people know what the outcome of the delete is.

What I'll probably do for the next version is add all possible choices of deletes and make it configurable as to what shows up. Let the user decide what they want.

I'm just not sure if people need to "Clear Watched" or "Clear Don't Like", at least not from the delete sub-menu.

If I am deleting an episode and clearing the "Watched" flag, it's because I want to record the same episode again (See my Delete & Set Recording Error).

I can't think of an instance when you will have a show to delete that is set as "Don't Like", but I haven't been using SAGE that long. I thought if you set a show as "Don't Like" SAGE would not record any of that show - hence you have no shows to delete so why have this option in a delete menu?

Of course giving the option would please everybody (except the technically challenged).

[Deadbolt]

Quick question about Cayars13.stv:

I loaded it up, but only replaced the .stv (I was running CayarsV21Cr2.stv before) to keep my menu and comskip customizations. Now I don't get RSS feeds anymore. I says "can't find Nielm RSS module" or something like that.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

I'm just not sure if people need to "Clear Watched" or "Clear Don't Like", at least not from the delete sub-menu.

If I am deleting an episode and clearing the "Watched" flag, it's because I want to record the same episode again (See my Delete & Set Recording Error).

I can't think of an instance when you will have a show to delete that is set as "Don't Like", but I haven't been using SAGE that long. I thought if you set a show as "Don't Like" SAGE would not record any of that show - hence you have no shows to delete so why have this option in a delete menu?

Of course giving the option would please everybody (except the technically challenged).

The technically challenged would probably be overwelmed with this STV anyway so we're not worried about them. This is a power users STV without a doubt.

I use the "Don't Like" quite often. I can watch a show that was recorded by IR and if I don't like it then I choose an option with "Don't Like". Marking shows "Don't Like" helps IR know that it's not my cup of tea and not to record it again.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Quick question about Cayars13.stv:

I loaded it up, but only replaced the .stv (I was running CayarsV21Cr2.stv before) to keep my menu and comskip customizations. Now I don't get RSS feeds anymore. I says "can't find Nielm RSS module" or something like that.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

A lot of things have changed since the CR2 release. You would be best off using the new menu file and then editing it for your layout again.

But the quick answer to your question is that the RSS module is now named "Rss News Feeds -- nielm"

[bones71]

Ok, cayar I love the stv and I've been waiting for the option of deleting afteryou finish watching something, But why all the options if we need all the options can it at least highlight delete by default so we don't have to arrow up or don to delete and also would it be possibe to have the option when we just stop the show? alot of times you don't play all the way to the end. I was also wondering if you could add the option when you select a show to resume play or start over. Thanks for all your hard work everyday it seems you make sage easier to use. Just a few suggestions.
Thanks,
Bill

[Cayars]

Just a tid bit for everyone following this thread. If you happen to get in a situation like DeadBolt did where you get an error when trying to access a menu item. This would normally indicate that you have skipped upgrades and missed out on something or have been using you own menu.xml file to long.

The best thing to do is to switch to the new menu.xml file (always provided) or do quick find in the new menu.xml file to see what module/page is being called. Then edit your own menu.xml file with the new name.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by bones71

Ok, cayar I love the stv and I've been waiting for the option of deleting afteryou finish watching something, But why all the options if we need all the options can it at least highlight delete by default so we don't have to arrow up or don to delete and also would it be possibe to have the option when we just stop the show? alot of times you don't play all the way to the end. I was also wondering if you could add the option when you select a show to resume play or start over. Thanks for all your hard work everyday it seems you make sage easier to use. Just a few suggestions.
Thanks,
Bill

Having it default to any of the delete options is BAD. I got burnt by this in development pretty quickly. If you accidentally hit twice it will use this and delete the show which might not be what you wanted to happen. I'd rather have an "extra" keypress fire off the close/cancel option and let the user delete the show the "hard way" after that.

I've also had a similar issue where I had mini-guide up as a show was ending and I hit the enter/select key to change channels. This happened just as the show was ending and the new delete option panel popped up. It took the enter/select as a "close" command and closed the option. If it defaulted to "delete" in the option then I would have had it do something I didn't want it to do.

As far as "scrolling to the top" in the options. Don't forget you can go down once and you're at the top of the list.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by bones71

<snip>
and also would it be possibe to have the option when we just stop the show?

I was also wondering if you could add the option when you select a show to resume play or start over. Thanks for all your hard work everyday it seems you make sage easier to use. Just a few suggestions.
Thanks,
Bill

I don't want to overload the user with choices at every turn using the STV. Can you not just clear the watched flag before starting the show or did I mis what you're asking for?

[lamanmi]

Cayars -- this is a great STV, I am just amazed at the constant updates and new enhancments.

One question, I noticed (while Sage was in debug mode getting the webserver plug in working) that I get the following error. Everything seems to work fine, just wondering:

Sat 11/20 9:31:10.070 ERROR Cannot find translation file for STV:java.util.Missi
ngResourceException: Can't find bundle for base name STVs\OriginalV2\Cayars13_i1
8n, locale

[bones71]

Guess I was wrong, Sorry

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by Cayars

The technically challenged would probably be overwelmed with this STV anyway so we're not worried about them. This is a power users STV without a doubt.

I use the "Don't Like" quite often. I can watch a show that was recorded by IR and if I don't like it then I choose an option with "Don't Like". Marking shows "Don't Like" helps IR know that it's not my cup of tea and not to record it again.

Agreed. Non-techies, go somewhere else . Just kidding .

I know "Don't Like" is useful, in fact I use it quite often. What I'm saying is that I am not sure the "Clear Don't Like" is needed in the "Delete" sub-menu. My reasoning is that if SAGE recorded the show, then the "Don't Liked" flage would already have been cleared (otherwise it would not have gotten recorded).

The only use I see for "Clear Don't Like" anywhere else in SAGE (still don't think it should be in the delete options), is when I accidentally set "Don't Like" or when I change my mind about a program and decide I want to start recording it again.

[rsagetv99]

BTW Carlo,

You may not have seen this yet, but can you help me out?

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...2&postcount=28

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

BTW Carlo,

You may not have seen this yet, but can you help me out?

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...2&postcount=28

http://download.sage.tv/SageTV_V2_0_20Setup.exe

and I answered this in the other thread also.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by lamanmi

Cayars -- this is a great STV, I am just amazed at the constant updates and new enhancments.

One question, I noticed (while Sage was in debug mode getting the webserver plug in working) that I get the following error. Everything seems to work fine, just wondering:

Sat 11/20 9:31:10.070 ERROR Cannot find translation file for STV:java.util.Missi
ngResourceException: Can't find bundle for base name STVs\OriginalV2\Cayars13_i1
8n, locale

It'll fall back to using the default which starts with OriginalV2.... I'm not making any changes to these so there isn't a reason to "duplicate" the files just so it doesn't show up in the debugger.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by rsagetv99

Agreed. Non-techies, go somewhere else . Just kidding .

I know "Don't Like" is useful, in fact I use it quite often. What I'm saying is that I am not sure the "Clear Don't Like" is needed in the "Delete" sub-menu. My reasoning is that if SAGE recorded the show, then the "Don't Liked" flage would already have been cleared (otherwise it would not have gotten recorded).

The only use I see for "Clear Don't Like" anywhere else in SAGE (still don't think it should be in the delete options), is when I accidentally set "Don't Like" or when I change my mind about a program and decide I want to start recording it again.

Yes, actually this is true. It doesn't hurt to to set it either.

[Cayars]

I got this information from mlmdude:

"Watched" gives the show and all of its attributes (actors, category, etc.) a positive tick - essentially a thumbs up in Tivo terms. Setting it to Don't Like gives it a negative tick - a thumbs down. I would guess that when there are more negative "ticks" against something IR rules it out. Jeff can answer the latter part for sure.

I'm waiting on a response from Jeff on this but mlmdude's understanding of how this works is in line with how I thought it worked also.

Technically these are the different ways I "could" have the delete options set.
1). Delete, Set Watched, Clear Don't Like
2). Delete, Set Watched, Set Don't Like
3). Delete, Set Not Watched, Clear Don't Like
4). Delete, Set Not Watched, Set Don't Like
5). Delete and set as Recording Error
6). Delete Only
7-10) Other choices only setting/clearing one of the flags.

Eliminating 5 and higher, this is how these choices would affect IR using mlmdude's tick count. Also noted if the show could be recorded again.
1). 1 POSITIVE tick for IR, Show won't be recorded again
2). neutral for IR, show won't be recorded again
3). neutral for IR, show may be recorded again
4). 1 NEGATIVE tick for IR, show may be recorded again.

So besides a Recording Error a delete could be done using one of the four choices above and cover IR and if the show should be recorded again.

So I'm thinking of these as menu choices:
Delete, Watched, Like
Delete, Watched, Not Like
Delete, Recording Error
Delete, Not Watched, Like
Delete, Not Watched, Not Like
Cancel <- the default menu choice

In my oppion they should be in this order because the first (D/W/L) and last method (D/NW/NL) are going to be the most popular choices. This puts both of these choices one up or down click away from the cancel. Speaking of Cancel, do you like "Cancel" or "Close" for the verbage on this screen? Also do you prefer to have a "Delete, Recording Error" option? If so I'd put this right in the middle of the list (3 up or down clicks).

I was originally thinking of making this all configurable but then there is going to be a ton of options and people are going to miss out on the reasoning behind this logic in the first place. I'd also rather spend the time on more important stuff then how to "draw" the options delete page.