Remote Controls

[jptaz]

Originally Posted by matterw

Why not just buy the StreamZap for $29 instead of the USB-IRT for $47 and use the StreamZap as the receiver? This way you can start with the StreamZap remote or replace it with any other remote...

Stacy wants to be able to control more than jsut SageTV and the StreamZap does not provide the ability to send IR comands to other devices. I do not know this for a fact, but I imagine the StreamZap receiver can not learn or receive other ir codes. So either way Stacy needs a IR Blaster and the USB UIRT is the best available.

John

[srothwell]

jptaz,

I am of the understanding that it really wouldn't matter WHAT remote I had since the remote would be sending a command that would be picked up by the UIRT, tickle Girder, Girder would figure out what the IR command was then look up what it's supposed to do with that, then (I guess through a plug-in) turn around and send out an IR command through the UIRT whcih would be picked up by the external device (say a DVD player or AMP).

The only catch seems to be that whatever remote you're using must be able to send different codes for different things. I'm guessing that's the reason many people say to simply buy an off-the-shelf universal remote. Becuase if you're in the TV mode and you assign a Sony TV code to it, then all the buttons under TV sill send certain unique codes. Same goes for DVD.

I doesn't really matter WHAT codes they're sending just as long as the STOP button that's assigned for DVD doesn't transmit the same exact code as the STOP button assigned for PVR. That way Girder can tell the difference.

Although as I read your post from yesterday, if I'm really clever I could use one of the 4 color-coded buttons on the, say, Hauppauge remote to disable Girder commands so that only one portion will react. For example, if I set the RED button so that it disables everyting except Sage commands in Girder, then any button pressed on the remote would only affect Sage commands. If I then set the GREEN button to disable everything except DVD player, then the same exact buttons with the same exact IR codes would no longer work with Sage, they'd only work for the DVD player.

If I wanted to use the ATI Wonder or the Firefly, then (I'm guessing) that the Firefly's USB receiver would be able to send an event to Girder and thus, be able to re-transmit real IR codes out the UIRT, right?

Did I miss anything?

Hopefully my UIRT will show up from Frey before too long so I can actually put this into action.

Best regards,

Stacy

[salsbst]

Stacy, you're on the right track... Girder is stateful, and if it knows you are in DVD mode, it can react differently to the STOP button than when it is in TV mode (for example).

I use the color coded buttons on the MCE to go from mode to mode. Nice thing about the MCE is that they're labeled, but the Hauppauge looks like a knock-off of the MCE without the labels, and if you prefer not to have the labels, the Hauppauge remote might be ideal.

[salsbst]

(maybe this was clear and maybe not, but... if you have an RF remote then you need to use the RF receiver to tickle Girder, rather than having the USB-UIRT do it for you.)

[TheraEdge]

I know this might be bad to throw in, but the Harmony family of remotes really seem to rock for working everything. Logitec bought them out. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...S/EN,CRID=2078

Now, before I get into it, I got the 688 for about $160 even thought the MSRP was something like $250..you can find that price at many online stores. I just got mine about 2 weeks ago, and it really works well. I am not a Sage owner yet, but I do have a TiVo, and it has many buttons set up for PVRs. I cannot however speak to the durrability as I haven't had it that long.

What you were saying before about turning stuff on etc...these remotes have buttons to press for different activities that turn on and set all your inputs as you need them. You can see the buttons, but the remotes also have LCD screens that has 6 buttons by it that can show more activities that you can make up yourself, and then they change to other buttons when into an activity...like watch TiVo when I am in that activity. There is a next button, so the choices are infinit for what buttons you want. Although, the buttons the remote has are pretty good to start with. The other big thing about these remotes is the online setup...after you tell the web page all your componenets, it also asks you to set up activities, and asks which inputs etc...to try to set up everything to work very well off the bat, then downloads this profile into the remote. There were very few things I have changed so far, but every once in a while I want to add one or change one. The web interface is kind of confusing for someone that just wants to add a button, but I have a pretty good handle on it now. The web setup did have some profiles under Frey Technologies for sage etc, but I don't know what remote functions they would have been set up to use, so it would probably pay to have a remote to learn from. The remote can even find out what your device is by just seeing the signal from another remote. Anyway, I haven't picked up any of the other 6 remotes in the time I have had this one. I really am amazed, because I am a very fussy user, but with the programability of this remote I should always be satisfied. The one thing I had to fix for an activity to Watch TiVo and then to Watch TV (so I could let the single tuner TiVo record while watching another show) was to set up the off function assoctiated with the tivo in ther remote with the standby setting of the TiVo that lets the cable signal pass through. Took a little playing to figure out what button it was, then just reset that button. The really cool thing was without all the fuss of programing from another remote the thing is almost perfectly set up from the get go, then with that great profile, you can tweak the heck out of it.

Just a suggestions, plus I would have like to have read something this descriptive before buying it, but am so far very, very happy.

[justme]

Boy are us Harmony users loyal or what? You got 2 reccomendations for a HST-688 in the same thread. It's one of the few products that I'm as loyal to as SageTV itself.

PS:I also got mine for about $150, IIRC.

[TheraEdge]

So what the heck were you using for your old remote to work on Sage anyway? Maybe I am missing something on that remote.

[srothwell]

Salsbst,

Thanks for confirming. I'm planning on the Firefly coming in through RF USB interface it comes with, tickling Girder, then having Girder send an IR command out UIRT to my external components.

This'll work, right?

[srothwell]

I had a Pronto NEO, which broke. I'm having a hard time spending (another) $160+ on a remote when with a little programming I can get the simplest remote on the plant to work just the way I want it. WAF involved here :-)

The only reason the NEO was acceptable before was my wife was able to have me tweek the interface on the touchscreen so it worked well for her.

I mean, hey we've all gone through the WAF -- especially on something like Sage!

Best regards,

Stacy

Originally Posted by TheraEdge

I know this might be bad to throw in, but the Harmony family of remotes really seem to rock for working everything. Logitec bought them out. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...S/EN,CRID=2078

Now, before I get into it, I got the 688 for about $160 even thought the MSRP was something like $250..you can find that price at many online stores. I just got mine about 2 weeks ago, and it really works well. I am not a Sage owner yet, but I do have a TiVo, and it has many buttons set up for PVRs. I cannot however speak to the durrability as I haven't had it that long.

What you were saying before about turning stuff on etc...these remotes have buttons to press for different activities that turn on and set all your inputs as you need them. You can see the buttons, but the remotes also have LCD screens that has 6 buttons by it that can show more activities that you can make up yourself, and then they change to other buttons when into an activity...like watch TiVo when I am in that activity. There is a next button, so the choices are infinit for what buttons you want. Although, the buttons the remote has are pretty good to start with. The other big thing about these remotes is the online setup...after you tell the web page all your componenets, it also asks you to set up activities, and asks which inputs etc...to try to set up everything to work very well off the bat, then downloads this profile into the remote. There were very few things I have changed so far, but every once in a while I want to add one or change one. The web interface is kind of confusing for someone that just wants to add a button, but I have a pretty good handle on it now. The web setup did have some profiles under Frey Technologies for sage etc, but I don't know what remote functions they would have been set up to use, so it would probably pay to have a remote to learn from. The remote can even find out what your device is by just seeing the signal from another remote. Anyway, I haven't picked up any of the other 6 remotes in the time I have had this one. I really am amazed, because I am a very fussy user, but with the programability of this remote I should always be satisfied. The one thing I had to fix for an activity to Watch TiVo and then to Watch TV (so I could let the single tuner TiVo record while watching another show) was to set up the off function assoctiated with the tivo in ther remote with the standby setting of the TiVo that lets the cable signal pass through. Took a little playing to figure out what button it was, then just reset that button. The really cool thing was without all the fuss of programing from another remote the thing is almost perfectly set up from the get go, then with that great profile, you can tweak the heck out of it.

Just a suggestions, plus I would have like to have read something this descriptive before buying it, but am so far very, very happy.

[jptaz]

Stacy,

Yep you got everything right. I personally prefer the RF based remotes, but you are correct in saying that any IR remote can be used with USB UIRT as receiver. In my example, as stated in your post, FireFly or ATI remotes have seperate plugins that receive the messages.

Since there are many Harmony remote fans here, with the Harmony remote you would still need a PC based receiver of some sort, but you could probably just use one of the built in receivers from the PVR-250 or other PC remote assuming it had enough buttons for your purposes in SageTV and then teach the Harmony those codes. Other than all the great positive feed back the other positive about using a harmony or other remote is that the SageTV PC does not need to be on to use the other equipment that remote controls as well as quicker programming. Since I rarely if ever have the PC that this is connected to off and honestly I love my ATI remote layout and weight balance so much better than other remotes I have looked at that it was worth it to me.

Even the harmony has too many buttons for my wife. My wife knows that the small group of buttons at the bottom of the remote control SageTV and she knows that when she hits the power button everything comes on. Before she used to not like the fact that SageTV was harder to channel surf on since it was kind of slow, but now she likes the guide since she can quickly scan through and watch what she wants. In the off chance she wants to watch real tv she knows all she has to do is hit the TV button and then use the channel up and down buttons.

John

[srothwell]

John,

Are you familiar with FireFly?

I keep harping on Firefly becuase I like the way the remote looks. This is followed very closely by the new Hauppague.

I actually don't care whether it's RF or IR. It'll only get used within 15 feet of the main TV in the living room anyway.

The only thing that scares me a little about FireFly is that it seems you have to have BeyondTV Media Basic installed and running just so it can recieve commands.

That means I'll have the following running on a single system:

1. Windows XP Pro
2. Sage TV Server
3. Save TV Client (for MVP)
4. USB-UIRT
5. Girder
6. BeyondMedia Basic (for Firefly)
7. UltraVNC (TV set SUCKS for working with Windows tweeks)
8. Norton Antivirus
9. APC software (for UPS orderly shutdown)


I feel like my system's going to implode as it is!

With all this translation going on between remotes, etc. How much of a delay are we talking about. If it's noticable, that will send the WAF into dangerous territory as well.

Stacy

[salsbst]

Girder/USB-UIRT impose no unnecessary, perceptible delays. Can't speak for Firefly/BTV. VNC, NAV, APC stuff won't be a factor. Unless the BTV/Firefly stuff slows you down, it will feel instantaneous.

The USB-UIRT can only send one IR signal at a time (and for reliability's sake, should take its time doing so), so if you need to say three different things to three different A/V components, those message must be communicated serially, AFAIK. My understanding is that this is no different than a Pronto, except that with stick-on emitters from the USB-UIRT, you can probably shorten the signals somewhat without sacrificing reliability. If this is a real issue for you, I believe you can actually run multiple USB-UIRTs.

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by salsbst

The USB-UIRT can only send one IR signal at a time (and for reliability's sake, should take its time doing so), so if you need to say three different things to three different A/V components, those message must be communicated serially, AFAIK. My understanding is that this is no different than a Pronto, except that with stick-on emitters from the USB-UIRT, you can probably shorten the signals somewhat without sacrificing reliability. If this is a real issue for you, I believe you can actually run multiple USB-UIRTs.

Yeah, that's no biggie as, you're right, is is just like the Pronto. I think I'm leaning towards the new Hauppauge remote over the firefly anyway. Using the system I want to use, the only thing the Firefly has over the new Hauppauge is it has "DVD" button on it. I think I can train my wife and mother-in-law that the RED button on the Hauppauge remote will turn on the DVD player and let my son watch "Finding Nemo" for the 7,000th time

Stacy

[TheraEdge]

So,srothwell, I know nothing about this Pronto NEO. Did it have some kind of RF or IR input device with it for the sage box?

Also, so from what I understand you other guys are suggesting is that he runs his remote through the sage computer and then sets up software to use the output module on the reciever to send signals to all the other equipment? Whoa, my head hurts. Seems like a budge job to me, but I guess I don't know why that wouldn't work.

Originally Posted by jptaz

Since there are many Harmony remote fans here, with the Harmony remote you would still need a PC based receiver of some sort, but you could probably just use one of the built in receivers from the PVR-250 or other PC remote assuming it had enough buttons for your purposes in SageTV and then teach the Harmony those codes. Other than all the great positive feed back the other positive about using a harmony or other remote is that the SageTV PC does not need to be on to use the other equipment that remote controls as well as quicker programming. Since I rarely if ever have the PC that this is connected to off and honestly I love my ATI remote layout and weight balance so much better than other remotes I have looked at that it was worth it to me.

Now that I have someones attention, this is a question I have. What is the best thing to do to set up the Harmony remote to work with Sage. I mean sage can be programed to recognize inputs from a remote mean certain things, right? But with a Harmony, I need IR signals for it to send to start with. I guess I am kind of confused as all my other sterio stuff comes with a remote already set up with its commands, but Sage seems to be really free with all these different remotes because it doesn't have it's own registered set of commands, and I don't want to be stuck without some functionality, or worse, going the long way around to give my remote codes to use that somehow don't interfer with my other components. I mean the profiles that Harmony has for my components has added buttons I didn't know were even possible because my remotes didn't have those buttons. Like my DVD player has codes to switch right to a certain disk even though the remote only had next disk on it. Well my Harmony now has both options. Oh know, I've gone cross-eyed! Please help!

Originally Posted by jptaz

Even the harmony has too many buttons for my wife. My wife knows that the small group of buttons at the bottom of the remote control SageTV and she knows that when she hits the power button everything comes on. Before she used to not like the fact that SageTV was harder to channel surf on since it was kind of slow, but now she likes the guide since she can quickly scan through and watch what she wants. In the off chance she wants to watch real tv she knows all she has to do is hit the TV button and then use the channel up and down buttons.

OK, Let me see, where is that thing, here it is. I downloaded this off of the Harmony page. This is my remote

So, here she doesn't even have to know that small group of buttons on your other remote controls the sage. It can say it right in that LCD window as soon as she pushes more on the right where all those colored buttons are. It will say watch SageTV and it will set everything up correctly. So 2 buttons and sage watching. Then after she pushes that button the LCD flips to some of the Sage buttons used (for my TiVo it is the more unique stuff like Live Tv and the TiVo button itself) and it is up and waiting for you to comand sage. And, you can see the Guide button just right of the jump forward button for the guide, and if she wants to watch real TV she just pushes that button (the green one above the LCD) and it changes that to set up for watching the TV without the assistance of the Sage stuff, and right after hitting that button, the remote switches so all the buttons that mean something work for the TV now. I do like the main OFF button all the way at the top though, and whatever is on, gets switched all off. I hadn't really felt like doing all the programing before now, and none of my other remotes could keep track of that, so if I had something off I put in the macro it would get turned on, so it was easier to just do it all manually. Now, it doesn't matter what I am doing, it just turns all the stuff I was using off and I don't have to think about it. (to many mornings I have come out, and the DVD player or tuner was still on in my stuper to bed the night before)

Originally Posted by srothwell

Yeah, that's no biggie as, you're right, is is just like the Pronto. I think I'm leaning towards the new Hauppauge remote over the firefly anyway. Using the system I want to use, the only thing the Firefly has over the new Hauppauge is it has "DVD" button on it. I think I can train my wife and mother-in-law that the RED button on the Hauppauge remote will turn on the DVD player and let my son watch "Finding Nemo" for the 7,000th time

Stacy

Hehe, that is the great thing about the Harmony remotes. They don't really need the training. An untrained monkey could do it (OK, maybe a little training, got to give the MIL a little credit right?) I love this remote, hit Play DVD (the purple one) and it switches the stereo, sets the right input, switches the DVD player on, switches the TV on, and sets the right input, and sets all the keys on the remote to control the obvious things (sterio volume, and DVD buttons) All that was with the push of ONE BUTTON! Can you believe that man?! And to set that up all you have to do is answer some questions online. What reciever (if using one), TV, and DVD player you have, and what input you use on both TV and reciever to watch a DVD and what you control the volume with, the TV or reciever. "Brilliant!" Have I mentioned I love this remote yet? I get so wound up. Hey, help me figure out the best way to use it for TiVo. Pleeeeeeease!

Hmm, anything else you guys might like to know about the remote. The positive button thing. Each button has a little click behind it to let you know you pushed it. I am still deciding on this. I didn't like it at first because none of my other remotes did it, but it is kind of growing on me. Um, the blue backlight is nice. Um, I think the color coding of the activity buttons at the top is kind of cheesy, but I guess for kids or even instilling something in your head to associate the color it does work. All of the buttons on there are translucent so the backlight shines through, but the activity buttons aren't, this was odd because you can't find them as easily in the dark, because you can no longer read them, but it seems all of the activities are repeated later in the list on the LCD you get to by pressing more, so you can read it if you don't know what button to push above the screen. Oh, and the volume on my TV is kind of wierd still. It has something to do with the delay, in that I push the button a lot faster than the delay allows, so it slows that down, but still counts all the pushes, so about a second and a half later my volume goes way higher than I wanted it because I stopped clicking where I liked it, but the remote kept sending the signals I had entered. Haven't looked into adjusting that yet, although I know you can adjust the delay, just don't know if you can seperate it out into different buttons or activities or what.

Anyway...'OFF'

[salsbst]

I'm not sure what 'budge job' means, but there are definitely two schools of thought for automating and remote controlling an A/V system -- those who would make the remote control intelligent enough to control all the devices and those who would make the PC the intelligent one. Pronto is for the former, Girder/USB-UIRT for the latter. To me, stacking up intelligence in the device that sends IR codes seems a little awkward when you have a PC at hand, so I'm in the latter group. To each his own, right?

[TheraEdge]

Originally Posted by salsbst

I'm not sure what 'budge job' means, but there are definitely two schools of thought for automating and remote controlling an A/V system -- those who would make the remote control intelligent enough to control all the devices and those who would make the PC the intelligent one. Pronto is for the former, Girder/USB-UIRT for the latter. To me, stacking up intelligence in the device that sends IR codes seems a little awkward when you have a PC at hand, so I'm in the latter group. To each his own, right?

The key term to me here is the "when you have a PC at hand" since this is my Tv room with mainly A/V components, the PC may not always have a home. I can't speak to that really, but the PC to me is more of the invader, so I want the other stuff to work the way I feel it should, I guess is the best way I can put it. There is just something strange about having the PC do all that work. I mean you have to have it booted up and on, I know, not like it will be off, but it just seems wierd. That is one of the other things that un-nerves me about using a computer and sage. Everything else in the arsenal is easy on, easy of, it either is or isn't. I would have thought they would have made a computer system that could do this by now also, I know it will be on all the time, but it is just strange to me, and I consider myself a bit of a computer nut. Anyway, my thoughts on the thing.

So, from my understanding though, from what others are telling me. For my situation, where I just want to run sage with my universal remote I just need an IR reciever, and sage can be set up inside of sage itself to react to whatever commands my remote is sending to the reciever? Or am I way off balance here?

[justme]

So, from my understanding though, from what others are telling me. For my situation, where I just want to run sage with my universal remote I just need an IR reciever, and sage can be set up inside of sage itself to react to whatever commands my remote is sending to the reciever?

Yes.

option 1(cheaper)If you are using a Hauppage card(retail PVR250,350,etc) that came with a IR reciever and remote then you could just teach the Harmony the IR codes for the Hauppauge remote. If you don't need an IR blaster then this solution would save you buying anymore equipment, like a USB-UIRT(if you don't have one already).

In the past I would have said that left too few buttons to properly control Sage, but the newer Hauppauge remotes have added more buttons(newest has 45). The Hauppauge card's builtin IR reciever can use these newer remotess codes* as long as the IR software is up to date. The only other major issue would be controlling SageTV with the Hauppauge's software without Sage having focus. However Opus4 has handled this and has lots of knowledge on expanding the usefullness of the Hauppauge IR software.

So the only issue I see with you controlling SageTV using the bultin IR reciever would be getting the IR codes to teach the Harmony. If you have a Hauppauge remote with enough buttons, you can just teach the Harmony the way you would for any remote not in the Harmony's web database(I didn't look but the Hauppauge remote may already be in the Harmony database). If you'd like to use the codes for the new 45 button remote and you don't have one(or it isn't in the database) then you might try getting(various ways depending on eaches equipment) them from someone who has the newest remote.

*Just to be clear. The Hauppauge IR reciever is still not a universal IR reciever, but for most people it supports plenty of IR codes. In other words, the Hauppauge IR reciever [I]basically[/] only works with the Hauppauge remotes(or any other remote that can send the Hauppauge remote codes.)

option 2(costs more, but has more ability to expand)Of course you can just get a USB-UIRT and then use any devices IR codes you like to control SageTV. This would be your only real option if your PVR cards lack a IR reciever, as some models do. I have my Harmony using my Tivo's (switch position 2) IR codes, since I'd taught these to Sage long before I bought my Harmony.

I hope some of that made since.

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by TheraEdge

The key term to me here is the "when you have a PC at hand"...

Yeah, I guess that's pretty critical if you're planning to use a USB-UIRT!

since this is my Tv room with mainly A/V components, the PC may not always have a home.

Fair enough.

There is just something strange about having the PC do all that work. I mean you have to have it booted up and on, I know, not like it will be off, but it just seems wierd.

Using lots of different components to do things that a PC can do fine on its own seems wierd to me. But it sounds like you're not fully sold on the HTPC idea, since you think of it as an invader and something which might not always be in the room. I'm not arguing, just trying to reiterate that there are definitely two different camps -- it sounds like you and I are pretty firmly entrenched in them.

So, from my understanding though, from what others are telling me. For my situation, where I just want to run sage with my universal remote I just need an IR reciever, and sage can be set up inside of sage itself to react to whatever commands my remote is sending to the reciever?

Yes, unless you have set top boxes that needs to be controlled by SageTV,in which case you need an IR transmitter, or, if you're lucky, a serial cable.

[TheraEdge]

Thanks much, justme & salsbst, you have really helped me out with what I find to be the most difficult part of building a sage box, figuring out how to control it from the couch. I think right now I am leaning toward the UIRT reciever so in the future if I get a dish or digital cable box I will have the ability to run it. That kind of defeats the purpose of having multipul tuners then unless I get multiple set top boxes, but I will knock over that hurdle when I come to it. Thanks for all the help.

Last night I was looking at the Harmony site and found a bunch of devices that the remote could use that emulate other remotes related to sage such as the Hauppauge remote, but the most confusing was that there were several listings for just plain Sage (not remote specific) this got me curious as to if there is actually a set of registered IR codes out there that is intended for sage, and has , well, I guess the best way to put it would be, ALL the codes for sage functions. For a little more info check out my post here: Harmony Remotes & Sage

[mostlyfodder]

just posting this in case it helps. we've been dicsussing the harmony remote a little bit here:

http://www.meedio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20283

and the universal remote control brands a little over here:

http://www.meedio.com/forum/viewtopi...=139654#139654

-fodder