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-   -   HDHR Quatro 4K (ATSC 3.0) on its way (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66533)

cat6man 09-29-2020 04:19 PM

HDHR Quatro 4K (ATSC 3.0) on its way
 
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omerun-atsc-30

I'm in line to get one of these, soon I hope (I heard today the ship was in LA but the WSJ says that the shipping company has been hacked and their computer systems are down, so who knows when............yet more proof that 2020 sucks)

I'm not sure when OTA ATSC 3.0 starts in the metro NY/NJ area but I'm happy to be a test guinea pig for anything developers want to look at.

KeithAbbott 09-29-2020 04:39 PM

So if I am reading this correctly, this device has all the features of the original HDHomeRun Connect Quatro, and in addition two of the tuners are capable of receiving ATSC 3.0. Due to the recent cablecard announcement, I have started to consider my options for OTA. I may wind up with the Quatro 4K version, the only downside would appear to be the additional cost involved.

Am I missing anything?

KryptoNyte 09-29-2020 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott (Post 627457)

Am I missing anything?

Not really. Except maybe for the current lack of stations actually broadcasting viable 4k content (depending on your area). If you already have a quatro or any other old HDHR tuner, I think you have some time to think about it.

I bought one during the kickstarter because I want to be ready, but more importantly, because Silicondust is one of the few players left in out little world and they have always treated me well. Admittedly, I don't love it so much I'm going to grab the $29 commemorative coin.

KeithAbbott 09-29-2020 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte (Post 627458)
Except maybe for the current lack of stations actually broadcasting viable 4k content (depending on your area). If you already have a quatro or any other old HDHR tuner, I think you have some time to think about it.

I've got a couple of the dual-tuner models, but was thinking that I would pick up a Quatro when I am ready to take the plunge. For me, I view the Quatro 4K as futureproofing. Especially considering that right now, I only have one 4K television, and it's in my kitchen. Not a great setup for serious watching.

KryptoNyte 09-29-2020 05:12 PM

I only have one 4k TV in the house, too, and it's only 40 some inches. The only time I really marvel at 4k content is the video I pull from my 4k drone. On the other hand, I'm getting older, I lived during standard definition, and full hd still looks pretty good to me.

I think my Amazon Prime membership includes Thursday night football games. I wonder if any of that is in 4k. Last I read, some 4k sports were being upscaled from 1080.

wayner 09-30-2020 07:08 AM

In my area cable has had sports in 4K for several years but there isn't any ATSC 3.0 yet. Buffalo is scheduled to get some before too long, but I don't know about Canadian broadcasters.

cat6man 09-30-2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott (Post 627457)
So if I am reading this correctly, this device has all the features of the original HDHomeRun Connect Quatro, and in addition two of the tuners are capable of receiving ATSC 3.0. Due to the recent cablecard announcement, I have started to consider my options for OTA. I may wind up with the Quatro 4K version, the only downside would appear to be the additional cost involved.

Am I missing anything?

um, what cablecard announcement???

edit: found it
https://www.nexttv.com/news/fcc-aban...es-rule-review

so now hdhr prime users are at the mercy of when the operators turn off their cable card support.

edit2:
from silicondust forum............looks like cablecards will be around for a while (at least)
That fear was explicitly called out in the FCC report:

“(11) NCTA also asserts that since there are tens of millions of CableCARDs currently deployed in cable operator-provided devices, “[c]able operators have strong business incentives to ensure that CableCARDs continue to function properly.” We agree and further find that competitive market forces should incentivize cable operators to continue to support retail CableCARD devices. ”

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments ... 124A1.docx


future:
1. OTA is covered for major networks with strong signals from NYC here
2. i don't want fios dvr boxes
3. what options are there for recording other cable channels on fios? they have an app... can that run on a nvidia shield pro? is there another sagetv thread that covers this?
4. what's the best way to have sagetv record streaming video?

KeithAbbott 09-30-2020 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat6man (Post 627462)
so now hdhr prime users are at the mercy of when the operators turn off their cable card support.

It may be worse than that. I keep reading that the operators may continue to support cable cards for many years, since millions of cable boxes have an embedded cable card in them. Cool, right?

But...

If the cable operators decide to change their DRM from “copy freely” to “copy once”, our HDHR Primes become excellent door stops. I hope they don’t see that as a first step to turn off their cable card support. Please, someone, talk me off this ledge...

wayner 09-30-2020 02:07 PM

Presumably those embedded cable card devices may contain DVRs that record content so changing the DRM from copy freely to copy once would also cause problems for those devices.

There .... off the ledge yet?

wayner 09-30-2020 02:11 PM

Speaking of DRM, does anyone know much about the DRM included in ATSC 3.0?

Here is one three year old article on the subject. https://www.techhive.com/article/323...e-air-dvr.html

KeithAbbott 09-30-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 627465)
Presumably those embedded cable card devices may contain DVRs that record content so changing the DRM from copy freely to copy once would also cause problems for those devices.

There .... off the ledge yet?

Not really. Those cable box DVRs still only connect to a single television, therefore would support the restrictions of copy once (I think). A lot of those cable boxes are designed and manufactured by companies like Motorola, who would easily have the resources to obtain Cablelabs approval.

So I'm still worried that cable operators could see this as part of their strategy of reducing/eliminating the need to support cable cards.

jpwegas 09-30-2020 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott (Post 627467)
Not really. Those cable box DVRs still only connect to a single television, therefore would support the restrictions of copy once (I think). A lot of those cable boxes are designed and manufactured by companies like Motorola, who would easily have the resources to obtain Cablelabs approval.

So I'm still worried that cable operators could see this as part of their strategy of reducing/eliminating the need to support cable cards.

Yes possible, but they still have to support CableCards because they have to support their own boxes in many cases. And that infrastructure has to stay in place until they replace all their own equipment that uses CableCards. Before that time, they could stop giving out new CableCards to customers for things like the Prime. But why force existing customers to return them when they already have a subscription and in many cases, people are paying for CableCards? They are just likely to push more people to cancel. I don't see any benefit to them doing that for quite a while.

--John

KryptoNyte 09-30-2020 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott (Post 627464)
If the cable operators decide to change their DRM from “copy freely” to “copy once”, our HDHR Primes become excellent door stops. I hope they don’t see that as a first step to turn off their cable card support. Please, someone, talk me off this ledge...

I have Charter Spectrum, old Time Warner, so it's almost all copy-once anyways. I use the WMC live tuner by EnterNoEscape which works around the limitation.

KeithAbbott 09-30-2020 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte (Post 627472)
I have Charter Spectrum, old Time Warner, so it's almost all copy-once anyways. I use the WMC live tuner by EnterNoEscape which works around the limitation.

Does that only work with WMC, or does it also work with SageTV?

KryptoNyte 09-30-2020 04:49 PM

It leverages WMC for use in SageTV. You still need to purchase some extra hardware, and it's a bit to set it up, but it works and it's fairly reliable. It's basically like recording from a set-top-box, but you provide your own version of the set-top-box (via WMC).

jpwegas 09-30-2020 04:54 PM

Main WMC Live TV Tuner thread is here:

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63212

--John

wayner 09-30-2020 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpwegas (Post 627468)
Yes possible, but they still have to support CableCards because they have to support their own boxes in many cases. And that infrastructure has to stay in place until they replace all their own equipment that uses CableCards. Before that time, they could stop giving out new CableCards to customers for things like the Prime. But why force existing customers to return them when they already have a subscription and in many cases, people are paying for CableCards? They are just likely to push more people to cancel. I don't see any benefit to them doing that for quite a while.

--John

Presumably the cable companies will be going to IPTV over time and will replace all legacy cable boxes. That may not happen for a few more years but I would think it will happen before too long as it is easier and cheaper for them to not support too many different technologies.

KeithAbbott 09-30-2020 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte (Post 627475)
It leverages WMC for use in SageTV. You still need to purchase some extra hardware, and it's a bit to set it up, but it works and it's fairly reliable. It's basically like recording from a set-top-box, but you provide your own version of the set-top-box (via WMC).

OK, if I am absolutely desperate, this is a possible option. The idea of replacing my two Prime devices with hardware to support six WMC tuners is almost unthinkable. I've got an unused HDPVR and HDPVR2 (and unused Colossus), and they are unused for a reason.

jpwegas 09-30-2020 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 627477)
Presumably the cable companies will be going to IPTV over time and will replace all legacy cable boxes. That may not happen for a few more years but I would think it will happen before too long as it is easier and cheaper for them to not support too many different technologies.

Agree. I expect to keep my CableCards for at least another few years but like everyone else here I'm keeping my eyes open for future options.

I also think it depends on the cable provider. I suspect some providers (like Comcast) are being forced to move to IPTV sooner because they are more constrained by how much available bandwidth they can use with their existing network the traditional way. IPTV lets them provide more channels. Others like Verizon FiOS, may not be as limited in this regard, so it may take them longer to transition.

--John

Zogg 10-01-2020 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott (Post 627478)
OK, if I am absolutely desperate, this is a possible option. The idea of replacing my two Prime devices with hardware to support six WMC tuners is almost unthinkable. I've got an unused HDPVR and HDPVR2 (and unused Colossus), and they are unused for a reason.

Three years ago I moved from Fios-land to a new city where Spectrum Time Warner was the best option, but most channels are set to copy-once. It felt like going back to the stone age to pull out the HDPVRs and use STBs again.

I do have one WMC live tuner that is now pretty stable, so that helps quite a bit though.


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