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-   -   HDHomerun Prime? (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52592)

cenwesi 11-25-2010 11:03 AM

HDHomerun Prime?
 
Did anyone get the email about it being ready in two weeks and that they have started taking pre-order. Ooh and the asking price is $249

bravesirrobbin 11-25-2010 12:05 PM

I was just going to post about this as well as I recently received an email about this from Silicondust that stated:

Quote:

We are at CableLabs® for the final review, with release to production in 2 weeks. Pre-order and release dates will be announced shortly following release to production.

On the availability side we are working with major retail partners to stock the HDHomeRun PRIME and accept pre-orders. The price has been confirmed at $249.
What I'm curious is if SageTV will support this product natively, without needing a PhD degree to interface to it (i.e. cable channel line ups)...

Could this be the ultimate cable card interface for SageTV? :clap:

jasmithvr6 11-25-2010 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravesirrobbin (Post 465810)
I was just going to post about this as well as I recently received an email about this from Silicondust that stated:



What I'm curious is if SageTV will support this product natively, without needing a PhD degree to interface to it (i.e. cable channel line ups)...

Could this be the ultimate cable card interface for SageTV? :clap:

I've been tracking the release of the HDHomerun Prime since it was announced. Is there any insight yet as to whether this will be supported in Sage? I really don't want to switch the HTPC Server to Win7 and use WMC, particularly with all the network connectivity issues between Win7 and XP machines. If Sage will support HDHomerun Prime natively, I'd preorder one of these puppies right now!!

sjrx0213 11-25-2010 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravesirrobbin (Post 465810)
I was just going to post about this as well as I recently received an email about this from Silicondust that stated:

Quote:

What I'm curious is if SageTV will support this product natively, without needing a PhD degree to interface to it (i.e. cable channel line ups)...
Could this be the ultimate cable card interface for SageTV? :clap:

I got the email too. My understanding is that -- like the Ceton CableCard tuner -- it's only going to work with Windows 7 MediaCenter. This is all tied to CableLabs certification.

I'd love to see this seamlessly integrate with SageTV, but CableLabs certification is a prerequisite and it's unclear where SageTV is on the matter. Totally uninformed speculation on my part: Even if SageTV were to get the certification, since the whole CableLabs certification process currently favors Windows 7 MediaCenter, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exclusivity period before the process was opened up to other software. Think iPhone and AT&T.

There was a thread from some time ago about a hack that would allow SageTV to essentially use WMC as a recording device for just this type of configuration. That's probably the near-term future for these devices and SageTV, assuming the hack works reasonable well.

Here's a link to someone who got the hack working with the CetonCard, SageTV, and WMC7: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...ight=cablecard.

bravesirrobbin 11-25-2010 12:38 PM

aarrrghhh! This was the SAME problem SageTV had with SiliconDust last year (I interviewed the CEO of SiliconDust at CES)! :bang:

How will this ever get fixed so SageTV can interface with this product?!?! :confused:

NetworkGuy 12-02-2010 07:08 AM

This was posted on the HDHomeRun Forums:

Quote:

Sagetv has a pulg-in called sagemctuner which works with WMC to record copy-free programs. If any of your programs are DRMed then the only thing which will play then at this point is WMC.

TWC in my area copy protects all channels, but locals. So all digital will only be playable with WMC.

reggie14 12-02-2010 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjrx0213 (Post 465813)
I'd love to see this seamlessly integrate with SageTV, but CableLabs certification is a prerequisite and it's unclear where SageTV is on the matter. Totally uninformed speculation on my part: Even if SageTV were to get the certification, since the whole CableLabs certification process currently favors Windows 7 MediaCenter, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exclusivity period before the process was opened up to other software. Think iPhone and AT&T.

Well, the news is slightly better than that. SiliconDust apparently got permission to uncertified applications access to channels marked copy-freely. A SiliconDust employee over on their forums previously indicated that any application that can access QAM channels off the HDHR Prime should be able to access non-copy-protected channels off the HDHR Prime through a cablecard. I think that suggests there's no exclusivity period.

Basically, this is potentially good news for FiOS and Comcast customers, since they don't seem to copy protect the expanded basic lineup (only premiums like HBO, etc.), but not so good news for Time Warner and Brighthouse customers, since those cable networks seem to copy protect everything.

It also isn't clear if Sage will even support the HDHR-Prime, give they're likely to be limited to only watching channels marked copy-freely.

jptheripper 12-03-2010 01:36 PM

i think this we be enough to get me to upgrade from vista to 7, and to pre-order an electronics item for the first time in my life. The potential to rid ir-blasters, gain tuners, even if its a hack-around at the moment, is worth it.

madpoet 12-03-2010 02:17 PM

Is there any way of knowing (looking at the cable box or whatever) what would and would not be copy freely in this scenario? Or do you just have to wait until you have it to try?

jptheripper 12-03-2010 03:35 PM

not only is it wait and try, but its wait and try and hope your cable provider doesnt change it on a daily basis.

reggie14 12-03-2010 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpoet (Post 467334)
Is there any way of knowing (looking at the cable box or whatever) what would and would not be copy freely in this scenario? Or do you just have to wait until you have it to try?

Most HD set top boxes have a diagnostics mode you can boot into that will show you the copy protection status on a given channel. You'd have to step through your channels, checking each one. It'll probably be a bit tedious.

madpoet 12-03-2010 08:48 PM

I know it will show 5c status but that's not the same thing... I'll have to poke around :)

reggie14 12-03-2010 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpoet (Post 467400)
I know it will show 5c status but that's not the same thing... I'll have to poke around :)

No, that's pretty much the same thing. The copy protection flags have lots of different parts to them, but as far as I know the flags that determine 5c status are the relevant ones here.

Fuzzy 12-03-2010 09:34 PM

5C isn't exactly the same (or at least, doesn't have to be). You are looking for CCI I believe.

reggie14 12-04-2010 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy (Post 467411)
5C isn't exactly the same (or at least, doesn't have to be). You are looking for CCI I believe.

They're not quite the same thing, but they're closely related. It's not clear the CCI bytes, as typically reported by the diagnostics page, won't necessarily give you exactly the right answer either.

If the CCI bytes indicate copy protection, an HD box will firewire has to employ 5c protection on the content. Really when I say CCI bytes there I only mean the EMI bits, which indicate the copy freely/once/never status. From what I've seen on my DCT6200, the CCI field seems to just show that.

The CCI bytes also contain some other fields, like the APS bits (Analog Protection System), but I've never heard of those being used. Apparently sometimes the Redistribution Control Trigger is set, also known as the broadcast flag. It's not clear what happens when that is set. The OpenCable specifications seems to say digital outputs must be encrypted (e.g., 5c encryption on firewire), but copies don't need to be limited. But there are some reports that some systems essentially ignore the Redistribution Control Trigger.

I'm not sure what that means for cablecard, but based on what happened with WMC and NBC several years back with the broadcast flag, the ATI OCUR device seems to obey the flag. It might be that devices are suppose to obey the flag by applying DRM, but don't need to enforce copy limits. At least, that's how I'd read the OpenCable spec. (In other words, if a channel is marked copy-freely, but the RC flag is set, the HDHR-Prime might have to apply DRM).

There's also apparently a DRM flag. I saw that on my DCT6200, and I've seen other people mention it, but I have no idea what it is. It seems to be boolean, and there's nothing in the CCI spec that it would obviously map to.

madpoet 12-04-2010 07:07 AM

I know this was a huge argument over at AVS.. what I took out of it was that you certainly could have 5c encrypted channels that were somehow also Copy Freely with Cablecard, but it was rare ;) So I guess my best bet is just to check the 5c status on the channels I really care about.

reggie14 12-04-2010 10:11 AM

I believe that. Basically, that seems to be the behavior the spec wants if something has the RC bit flagged. In that case the STB is suppose to encrypt the digital output, but not enforce copy protection (I have no idea why someone would find that desirable). Maybe the DRM bit does the same thing.

Allegedly TiVo essentially ignores the broadcast flag, but the ATI OCUR device doesn't. So, that might explain the apparent inconsistency- not all devices act the same way.

LexLS 12-30-2010 03:31 PM

If the Prime only works on Win7 and would work with Sage I think it would definitely be worth upgrading from Vista...although that would be around a $450 upgrade.

Yesterday I had a pretty lengthy conversion with one of the Comcast techs and he said they do not allow self install of the cablecards! He said it costs $15 for the install I think.

Although this would be pretty expensive to upgrade it would probably still be worth it if it works as well is my standard HDHR and hopefully I could get rid of my monthly cable box rental and slooow channel changes via firewire. Oh, and 3 HD cable tuners!

Who's going to be the first to get this working?!

dstafford 01-18-2011 09:25 AM

Would SageTV still be able to 'play' live TV that is copy-protected (albeit without DVR/record/rewind abilities) ?

[Sincerely, A disgusted TWC customer]

Fuzzy 01-18-2011 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstafford (Post 475912)
Would SageTV still be able to 'play' live TV that is copy-protected (albeit without DVR/record/rewind abilities) ?

[Sincerely, A disgusted TWC customer]

No.


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