It's time again, cutting the cord options?
 

So it's that time again, I'm coming up on the end of my promo discount, so it's time to investigate again.

I thought I had a free period with Sling with my LG B7, but apparently only from select sellers, and not where I got mine. So off I go to research the different options.

There's still a few things I watch on cable, so I'm looking at something to fill that in. YoutubeTV was sounding good, feature wise, but it has almost none of the networks/shows I care about. Oddly, DirecTV Now actually has pretty much everything I want in their base package, but there's a rub... "DVR"

Of course the question is, do I really need it. Most all of these services have VOD, how well does that work. Anyone tried them?

Our cable company just pulled a really dirty move, which may end up in small-claims, but I digress. Because we like TiVo soooo much, it’s really hard to switch. And OTA TiVo doesn’t work either, since we’re 50 miles from transmitters. Direct TV would make the most sense, but yeah.....dvr

I may have to try it, they've got a 3 months for $10/mo promo going, which is "cheap" and should be plenty of time to find out how it works.

From a practical perspective, I don't really care if something's "DVR"d or VOD. I'm not a hoarder like some folks here, shows that are worth keeping, I get on Blu-ray since the quality is so much better. I also don't tend to save up shows and watch them later. I just never watch anything live, so all I "need" something that will let me watch the shows/episodes I want when I want to.

We got rid of cable TV a couple years ago now. We like Sling TV. We've looked at DirecTV NOW but have decided to stay with Sling even though we don't get as many channels on the orange plan. Our reasoning is that, depending on the channel, Sling provides a sort of DVR by keeping around recently aired episodes for a period of time. DirecTV NOW sort of has this feature but it's not nearly as extensive and Sling's. Sling also has a streamed DVR feature but we don't subscribe to it so I don't know how it works.

I am in the same spot as you Stanger. I just want to watch the shows I want, when I want and don't necessarily need to hoard them. There are few shows I keep for extended periods. But few.

And those that I have hoarded over the years I find I rarely go back to. And like you, the ones I go back to, I buy to get the quality.

So bottom line, I just need to know that what I want is available VOD so I can get to it. Or that there is a DVR with reasonable storage limits (time and size).

I'm 50 miles and I still manage get 30+ channel with my ATSC Antenna
You all do know Steaming Live TV is not considered Cord Cutting as it is a subscription with live TV service including Sling TV, Philo, YouTube TV, PlayStation Vue, DirecTV NOW, Hulu’s Live TV beta, and Fubo TV.
By the way this maybe use to any what the diff https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

A real Cord Cutting will only use an Antenna and nothing more and there are min option hardware and software solution.

Technically, sure, but paying $20 month for Sling TV vs nearly $100 per month for cable TV is a no brainer. We get all the channels we care about watching live for a quarter the price. If the only programming you care about can be watched on OTA then more power to you but reality is generally more nuanced than your black and white version of cord cutting.

That true if have no data caps

Good point. Cox has a 1TB cap but we rarely exceed 500GB. Not currently worried but the imposition of data caps is a major concern, YMMV.

what antenna are you using? How high up? terrain between you and transmission - flat, or hilly. Lots of things besides miles...

I am in Toronto and I can get channels from Buffalo transmitters which are about 80 miles away - although I have a pretty clear LoS across Lake Ontario. If I orient my antenna more towards the east I can also pick up Rochester channels.

Check out TV Fool and see what it says. http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

An antenna like a CM4228 or CM4221 mounted in your attic or on your roof can pick up channels from long distances. I have a CM4228 mounted on the outside my house.

Digital TV is unlike the old analog TV. You either get the channel or you don't - you don't get "snowy" channels like in the old days. But if a channel is marginal then you may lose it in bad weather conditions - not unlike satellite and you may get break-ups in the video feed.

There is no perfect Line Cable substitute. Each one has a compromise of some kind. I have tried Sling TV, DirecTV Now, PlayStation Vue, Hulu and Youtube TV. I currently have DirecTV Now (Grandfathered Pricing from original offer) and YouTube TV.

To me YouTube TV is by far the best but it may lack some channels you want. I really like the unlimited DVR space since you don't have to manage you library. If you think you might watch it just record it. The is a 9 month retention limit but that is enough to record a whole season of something and bing watch. There are some VOD replacements but they seem pretty limited and the amount of forced add watching pretty short unlike some other services.

DirecTV has the best channel selection and I have the original $35 price so I have kept it as a fill in and to see if the DVR option matures into something worthwhile. (Plus Free HBO for now) DirecTV Now DVR in the Beta really sucks and I have low expectations for it. What DirecTV Now does have is good VOD selections and a lot of login access to Network apps directly which has even more VOD access. For a lot of people DirecTV Now would be fine once they have the limited DVR working.

I am still recording OTA locals with EMBY and use PlayOn to record some shows to the server as well. But...I find I am using YouTube TV for everything at this point. I could drop DirecTV Now and would not miss it. But keep in mind I also have Hulu, Amazon and Netflix so shows I miss with YouTube TV will probably eventually show up on the other providers at some point.

I really could have got by with any of the Cable replacements but all had warts of some kind.

Playstation Vue had poor GUI, 30 limit on recordings and lots of adds on on-demand and very limited client support.

Hulu was fine for normal service but the GUI does not work will for live TV. Plus management of the DVR space was cumbersome and constant even when I expanded the space.

Sling TV was my first test and prior to the DVR option but I have not read much that would make me try it again. The packages were complicated and there were no local station options. Overall better than Playstation and Hulu but on par with DirecTV Now.

I like this site for Cord Cutting news. Here is a comparison grid of all the services with supported apps and channels:
https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...-january-2018/

First, let me say that I am completely happy with DTN... and I live in a place that has around 80 OTA stations available.

Anyway, I am unsure what "DVR" means exactly. If you are referring to recording programs similar to how STV does, then maybe I can help. I use PlayOn (https://www.playon.tv/) to record and then play back with STV (HDT300). PlayOn works very similar to STV in that you schedule the recordings and then forget about it... or manually record "live" broadcasts. Of course, the biggest problem is the lack of a Program Guide so you have to do a little searching in order to schedule the recording.

Channel Master product
1: CM-3020 or know as Advantage 100 Antenna
1: CM-7777HD Amplify Adjustable Gain Preamplifier
1: CM-3092 3’ Tripod Mount
1: CM-3212HD 2-Way Splitter
1: 7' In Ground Pole old Sat pole (thanks to Dishnetwork LoL)
100': PCT RG6 Tri-Shield
50 count bag: PCT TRS-6LMG Compression F Connectors
1: PCT Compression Tool PCT-RH-CT
1: Coax Coaxial Cable Wire Cut Cutter Stripping Tool look like this
1: Ground block
1: 4' copper ground rod 20' bear solid ground wire 10AWG
25 count: Cover style of Weather Boot look like this
25 count: Barrel style of Weather Boot look like this

Here a photo it not very high about on 15ft to 20ft give take a few feet off the ground with boat load trees in the way when look at this where I'm at in Vinita, OK

It means Digital Video Recorder which it refer to format unlike VHS or Beta or NoN Digital formats aka old school analogs signal

That's exactly what it means. And nothing else is as good at this as SageTV. Often the streaming solutions can have shortcomings, like inability to skip commercials or (for sports) being able to start at the beginning of a game when it is under way. Nothing else that I have seen also allows you to quickly skip through parts of a recording the way that SageTV does. This makes it invaluable to me when I watch sports. I am not really a football fan but it lets me watch all of the action of the Superbowl in about 20 minutes. Watch a play SkipFwd,SkipFwd, SkipFwd, Watch a play, Skip Fwd...

Oh! I apologize. I thought it meant: "A digital video recorder (DVR) is an electronic device that records video in a digital format to a disk drive, USB flash drive, SD memory card, SSD or other local or networked mass storage device." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder)

Which is what PlayOn does. My mistake. Sorry about that.

I agree. However, I was suggesting PlayOn as an addition not a replacement. STV is definitely without peers as far as the play back mode is concerned. However, it has not quite caught up in the area of recording "Streaming" sources yet.

In any event, PlayOn does strip commercials when using its built in viewer. (I haven't researched how to convert that to STV but I am sure there must be a way... if not now but some day soon)

Getting sports in high def seems to be a tough proposition. Services I've looked into usually have one or more limitations like only 720p, only stereo sound, no dvr, schedule blackouts, and no coverage of that particular sport.

Still haven't found anything that beats SageTV with HDPVR recording component+optical audio from cable stb.. just wish it was more stable and less complex.

You're not going to do any better than 720p for most sports regardless if it's streaming, OTA, cable or satellite. ABC, ESPN, FOX, Fox Sports and MLB Network all broadcast at 720p as networks.

I always find these comments funny (no offense). Yeah, I get tens of channels over OTA, but that's like saying I get 100+ channels over cable, most are crap. All you get OTA is the 5-7 "major" networks, plus a few PBS channels. Everything else is just filler crap, just like with cable. For me there's not more than maybe 5 channels OTA that have anything on I'm remotely interested in.


Semantics, and I get it, but I don't care about semantics, I think still, when most people talk about cutting the cord they mean getting rid of a traditional, physical-line based cable TV service.

My point was, my cable TV bill is ridiculous, the non-discount price is $103/mo, and that's just the expanded basic, no cablecard/cable box ("digital") channels. As far as providers go, mine is great, and I really like the service, almost 100 of those are HD, and all are clear QAM. But even so, $103/mo for maybe 5 channels, for a handful of shows just doesn't meet the cost/value bar.

I was all set to go for it, until I realized that they only had one of the channels I care about (NBCSN), and while its content is perhaps the hardest to replace, it's not the most important.

Thanks for the info, that's what I was wondering. I don't really care about "recording" something, so long as the shows I watch regularly, I don't have to sit in front of the TV and watch it when it airs. I mean this isn't the 80's after all.

I need to go through and look at the sources for stuff I watch, but DTV Now I think had every network I care about, other than OTA, but I've got an antenna, so that's not an issue.

Cool, I was looking for something like that. Wish it was interactive, like let you check off the channels you care about and it would show you which providers had it. But I guess excel can do that.

Based on that:
YoutubeTV is out, it's missing 5/8 networks
SlingTV is missing 3/8
Hulu's missing the same 3 as Sling
DTV Now and PSVue both have all of them

I tried PSVue a while ago, I agree, I didn't really like the interface. Seems like DTVN is the way to go for me, I'll have to see if they've still got the $100/mo promo.

Thanks for the info about the VOD features, I was a little worried about that.

Out of curiosity, what's so bad about the DVR?


Technically what I mean is the ability to record ("save") shows to watch at a time other than when they air. But really it's just the last part that I care about. I never watch anything when it's on, so it's very important for me to be able to still watch stuff when I want to. So a "DVR" or good VOD system/selection are equally acceptable to me.

So a little further evaluation, just by specs, DTV Now is missing one nice-to-have channel in their $35 package, but PS Vue has it in their base $40 package.

PS Vue interface wasn't awesome, but it was usable.

Oh, regarding my comparison site wish, I found this, it's quite slick:
https://www.suppose.tv/tv

Even provides combo suggestions. For example it's suggesting I go for Sling Blue + Philo (hadn't heard about it til today)

There's a rumor (based on a now-pulled buzzfeed article) on the YouTubeTV subreddit that Turner channels are coming to YouTubeTV. Apparently new customers will pay $40, but existing customers will stick with $35.

That's promising, although I think they'd still need Scripps before I'd be allowed to seriously consider dropping cable TV.

Hardly compares to Sling or DirecTV Now. (And if you are an AT&T customer, it is $25 off of the DTVN pricing)

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

By quantity maybe, but a few of those Turner networks are the ones that were preventing me from considering YTTV. If they add them, combined with the "good" DVR, that's probably my answer. Though I guess they're still missing the discovery Networks.

I really want to try DTVN, but the DVR and VOD give me pause. Same with PSVue.

I wonder if this includes the On-Demand versions (TNTDrama, for instance). I suspect it means Live broadcasts only.

Like stanger, the DVR situation really make everything except YoutubeTV a non-starter for me. I can handle a 9 month recording lifetime, but everything else has dealbreakers.

Vue has a 500 recording limit, and they only last 28 days

Sling only has 50 (or 100) hours of recordings, and recordings don't work on several channels.

Hulu only has 50 (or 200) hours of recordings.

DirecTV Now has no DVR option right now. While its coming, I doubt it will be very good.

The on-demand features of all these seem sort of wonky. On-demand catalogs are pretty spotty. That makes them far less desirable as an alternative to DVR.

For instance, YoutubeTV doesn't look like it has access to TNT VOD. That sucks, but if you actually look at TNT's VOD catalog on TNTDrama.com, it's super spotty. Even TNT's own shows are spotty. At least for YoutubeTV you can set it to "record" everything and over time you'll build up a decent catalog on your own.

YoutubeTV+Philo looks like a promising combination at this point, although I hate to have two different services. I'd pay the $16/month for the Philo channels- I'd just want them in the YoutubeTV interface.

Again, I mention PlayOn (https://www.playon.tv/)

I've tried PlayOn off-and-on since 2009. While it's certainly improved, I've always been unhappy with the experience overall.

Maybe I should try it again- the last time I tried it at all was mid-2017. But, I just had twins a few months ago. I don't have the energy to setup and maintain things like this anymore. I'm using Sage out of inertia at this point.

My Sage server crashed pretty hard recently, and I had to spent many hours fixing it (I still don't know what went wrong, but I ultimately had to restore a backup from over a month ago to get the machine to boot again). I almost tossed aside Sage when that happened. Honestly, if I knew it was going to take as long as it did to get it working, I probably would have. And if it happens again, I almost certainly will- particularly now that YoutubeTV has Turner channels.

Something that just works- and that works well remotely and on mobile devices- sounds very compelling at this point in my life. I'll trade away a lot for that, but I'm not dropping down to ~100 hours of recordings. And I'm not going to replace Sage with something equally difficult to manage.

So how does it actually work with DTVNow in practice? What if two shows air at the same time?

It took me awhile to find the URL for the User's Guide: https://www.playon.tv/user-guide/device-guides

Anyway, If I understand your question, you would record like back in the old VCR days. You would start and stop the recording manually. I have never done that. I simply browse to the program and press the "Record" button. See Image:

Attachment 16847

(The green dots designate that I already recorded those episodes. On those the "Record" button would show "Restart.")

Another way is to "subscribe" to the program and then the recording starts automatically when released by the Network.

That is also how it works with every other (than DTVN) Streaming Service (Free or otherwise) that you are subscribed to.

In addition, there is a PlayOn Extension for Chrome and IE that is essentially the same process (except, of course, you can't schedule the recording). This Extension records any Video that is accessed by the browser.

It is, of course, a little more complex than that but it is very user friendly and, TBH, a lot easier to work with than STV... well, a shorter learning curve.

Anyway, read over the manual.

No, that's not really what I'm asking, I was asking how it works day to day. For example from what I gather, (I found the subscribe thing), I would go through, for all my favorites, I'd go through the Playon GUI and "subscribe" to all of them. Then Playon will dutifly record them.

However, there are questions, like:
DTVNow only shows things live as I understand it, so does Playon miss the first seconds/minutes of a program because it doesn't show up in the list until it airs, and Playon presumably polls (how often) for new things?

What happens if two shows air at the same time? Which one gets recorded? Do they both? Is it limited to the number of streams DTVN supports?

Is it common to miss the beginning/end of a show due to lack of padding?

I used PlayOn for a long time and really liked it. But over the last year it seems, they have been having a lot of issues with various networks. Some, like TNT/TBS they have just dropped because they can't make them work any longer. It is to the point where I never use it anymore.

All of my subscriptions have failed to the point where there is nothing left for me to record. Couple that with it's basic shortcomings (no surround, etc.) and I just don't see any value in it anymore.

Now, I don't have any of the online services and access content using provider logins. So using it with DTVN might be good. But if they are just sending you to the networks VOD, I would think that the same networks that are failing directly though PlayOn will also fail on DTVN redirecting to where ever.

Okay, I think the problem here is the need to separate "Live" from "Video on Demand."

Recording a "Live" episode works exactly like the Ol' VCR method. See Image

Attachment 16848

(I don't know what the "Record All" means.)

This is Animal Planet's live stream and my choices are Play, Cast, or Record. However, I have to do it manually... the actions starts when I press one of the buttons. Note that it will record for 5 hours (can be adjusted).

Interesting... I started an Animal Planet recording and then started a program on A&E. The A&E recording was put in the "Queue." Meaning PlayOn is only recording one at a time. I stopped each recording after five minutes and it looks like each recording starts mid program.

In other words, I am unfamiliar with recording/watching live TV. Why don't you download the free trial PlayOn and use some non-subscription service (Like Crackle maybe -- I was able to open YouTube Olympic Coverage video without a subscription) and see if it is right for you... before committing to either PlayOn or DTVN.

Now, on the Video on Demand side. The scheduled recordings are dependent on the Network releasing the show -- depending on the Network, that is from 24 hours to three weeks. In that case, I described the process above.

In any event, I've done all the damage I can do.

Yeah, there is a problem with TNT/TBS as well as SyFy VOD. However, while I originally blamed PlayOn, I find that they are no longer available with any Streaming service... and believe me I've looked. For some reason those Networks, in the last month, have stopped allowing non-cable/satellite services access to VOD. Yes, I was very disappointed but no longer blame PlayOn.

As far as the Surround Sound is concerned, I hadn't noticed. I have a 7.1 system. PlayOn records to the Mp4 format and I simply play it through SageTV (HD300) without changes. I would be surprised if PlayOn manipulated the sound but am open to the theory... I just hadn't noticed.

Surround does not work through a browser with any of these services. So PlayOn just passes it on. Your AVR is just giving you Dolby Pro Logic or equivalent.

As for the network problems, I am not blaming PlayOn. But it limits what PlayOn can do. So for me it's value is diminishing.

I can tell you that Sling, DTVN, YouTubeTV, Vue and Hulu Live all have TNT and TBS, etc. And they're on Sling's $20 tier.

You may be right about the recordings that PlayOn does within a Browser... I haven't done that yet. Those recordings done entirely within PlayOn sure seem to me to be in some kind of "surround" sound. There are plenty of "sounds" that only come out of, for instance, a single rear speaker. Does Dolby Pro Logic do that?... I'm impressed.

Yes, all those services have access to some aspects of TNT, TBS and SyFy but not VOD. Try to access a full episode on TNTDrama without a cable/satellite subscription and you will see what I mean... go down the list of several hundred authorized "providers" and you will not find a single Streaming service.

Play-on has removed a lot of the channels I use. It really isn't useful for me now. I have to rely on the specific apps on my streaming devices now (not all are available).

I will say that it's sad to find that it's now easier to get TV through non-legal means than it is to get it through legal means (in terms of streaming/online only).

Sling TV looks like it has most/all of what I'd be looking for. OTA can give me the rest if I stop being lazy and put the antenna in the attic or on my roof.

I wasn't keeping track of what was dropped by PlayOn but wish to sound more coherent when complaining to PlayOn Support. Help me identify all the channels that they no longer list. I remember only TNT/TBS/SyFy because I was directly affected but wish to be thorough. Please tell me what channels you are referring to. See current list image:

Attachment 16849

I see nothing I need that Sling has that DTVN doesn't. What are you referring to specifically? (Asking for the same above reason.)

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

For me, it's not that Sling has anything that DTVN doesn't. It's that it has everything that I want for $20/mo rather than $35 for DTVN.