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webwalker 02-17-2009 09:51 AM

Odd framerate on some rips
I've noted this now on some, but not all, of my DVD collection that I've ripped using dvdfab5. I have only one HD display, so this might make it a little more difficult to diagnose.

These are being ripped to standard vobs: a duplicate of the original disc structure, but without the DRM.

When playing back some movies, it appears that the HD200 starts dropping frames (regularly like an old kinoscope, not freezing, pausing) while the audio track continues.

So far I have observed this on TRON, Monster's Inc, Spy Kids. It only seems to occur during either fast motions, panning shots. When macroblock updates settle down, the problem goes away.

The server is essentially flatlined during this playback: it isn't struggling at all to provide the feed, and I'm Gb from the server through the switch, only choking down to 100/F for the last leg to the HD200.

When I watch the rips on a laptop (the only other form of screen I've got to watch the vobs with) it looks silky smooth.



Texas-Hansen 02-17-2009 11:11 AM

I'm sorry I can't offer a solution but I can offer a you might not be alone post. It's interesting you mention this as I think but am not sure I might be seeing something similar with Monster's Inc. I also ripped it using DVDFab and I am using VOBs. I noticed in a couple scenes that the motion seemed "not smooth". These were not necessarly fast scenes but scenes with lots of movement. I thought to myself that did not seem as smooth as I remember it when playing directly from DVD, etc but I must be wrong or crazy. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison for that scene but saw your post and said, well, maybe not crazy.

webwalker 02-17-2009 11:59 AM

The scene that I'm thinking of in Monster's Inc is the first view of the City as Mike & Sulley walk out the door and to Mike's car. In TRON it was the drive through the low-res tanks right after the lightcycle escape. (Which, oddly rendered find.)

Here's my problem: How the heck do I tell what's doing on? I suppose at worst case, I can telnet in to the HD200 while its playing back and tail the log...

I checked the first two or three DVDs I ripped with DVDFAB and they looked fine so I was convinced that the procedure was sane. I've already ripped 60+ DVDs from my collection and the prospect of having to go back and watch each of them in their entirety as a sanity check makes me a little sick.


Texas-Hansen 02-17-2009 12:32 PM

The scene in Monster's Inc. I'm thinking about is when Sully is walking into the factory toward the beginning of the movie. Since the kids and wife were watching I did not want to risk yelling and throwing popcorn if I rewound to see something I'm sure they'd say they did not notice. I will go back and do some testing and also check out the scene you mention. I doubt that the problem is caused by DVDFab as I think it's just pulling out the VOB's from the disk and not re-encoding anything. If this issue cannot be duplicated on teh same scene when using the DVD in a DVD player, then my guess is it is how the HD200 is processing the data from the VOBs. I guess to be sure, it might be worth trying to rip the DVD using another program out there like AnyDVD.

webwalker 02-17-2009 04:12 PM

I'm inclined to check it that way, as my latest crack at Sage has required me to do a scratch OS install, so I can try AnyDVD again.

I'm with you though: I've never seen the behavior while playing back this media on any other device. And that's pretty damning.

But is Frey (Sage) going to even look at it as a problem?

Oooooh; I've got an idea: use the HD200 stand alone mode, reach across to the sage server and play the vob back via the network with sage in the middle of the issue. That should help narrow it to the hardware if that is the problem. It would also remove any question of 'are you running SageMC?' and 'This is a commercial encrypted media you're playing; its not supported.'

I don't know that those would be the responses, but they seem likely. Going in to standalone and getting the files via SMB windows share from the server is likely to remove that as a question.


gplasky 02-17-2009 04:40 PM

Even in standalone mode, if it is ripped properly Sage will see it as a DVD and it will just play. I have a HD200 and a HD100 and I don't see these issues on my over 400 rips. Which include Monster's Inc. and Tron.


webwalker 02-19-2009 10:31 AM

Interesting. And alarming.

I tested the Monster's Inc playback last night in standalone mode, reading the ripped vob directly from the fs share: same problem, same place. So it looks like I've got a bad rip.

Now my major concern is, how the hell do I tell if I have a bad rip with DVDFAB without sitting through about 130 hours worth of material already ripped? :bang:

gplasky 02-19-2009 01:50 PM

I'm not sure what the issue is. I use DVDFab5. And I play the ifo, not the vob. No issues with Monsters, Inc or any of my rips. But I don't choose the vob. In sandalone mode I set up a media directory and just tell it to play. Why would you just choose the vob?


webwalker 02-19-2009 04:14 PM

Because I'm clueless. :nono:

I know just enough about DVD structure to be dangerous. Any reference material you might recommend reading?

I'm still convinced that something isn't right but I'm now of the belief that I wouldn't know it if it bit me. I'm just a server wonk. :blush:

gplasky 02-19-2009 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by webwalker (Post 339651)
Because I'm clueless. :nono:

I know just enough about DVD structure to be dangerous. Any reference material you might recommend reading?

I'm still convinced that something isn't right but I'm now of the belief that I wouldn't know it if it bit me. I'm just a server wonk. :blush:

You won't find it spelled out much clear than in Appendix I (page 260) of the SageTV manual that was installed when you installed SageTV in the SageTV directory. If you follow that and leave DVDFab5 with all of the default settings you'll be fine. As a note-DVDFab5 will put just movie rips in a MainMovie folder and full rips in a FullDisc folder. So if you have a media directory called DVDs then when you are finished you either have \\Server\DVDs\MainMovie\Monsters Inc or \\Server\DVDs\FUllDisc\Monsters Inc. In this case you want two import directories in Sage. \\Server\DVDs\MainMovie and \\Server\DVDs\FullDisc.


webwalker 02-19-2009 09:15 PM

Actually what I meant was about the full DVD structure; what it means, why its there, how it works. I just grabbed the vob because I knew it contained the 'content'. I have no idea what an ifo is, but I'm going to read up tonight so I won't come out of the conversations looking like a goose.

Anyway, I'm going to transfer some files to my laptop tonight and see what I get.

I do have a question specifically for you though: I know you're a user of the Harmony remote. After having been through the Tivo remote debacle, the USBUIRT debacle, the CommandIR debacle and, as of last night, the URC-R6 debacle....I'm giving up and buying a Harmony. The problem appears to be largely debounce related; the silly thing won't learn more than one code per button, and it requres two codes for the debounce toggle to work reliably. This appears to be a problem with all of the former solutions I've tried; they don't cope well with debounce.

I presume that there is no electronic design difference between any of the Harmonys. (button placement, color lcd, # of buttons don't count in this eval.) I want to ensure that the Harmony uses the same code and the same guts to get the job done, whether it is a Harmony one or a cheapie 510.



gplasky 02-20-2009 05:20 AM

When you say "code" you have to understand the beauty of the Harmony is that it is a learning remote. The way Harmony works is that they have a huge database of remote codes for over thousands of remotes that people have had and learned for their Hamonys as well as remote codes from manufacturers. When I set up a Harmony I end up picking a device that either has a remote already (a Windows Media Center, a Sage HD200) define what devices I want to control (HD200, Panasonic TH-58PE75U plasma TV, a Sony receiver STR-DG820, Comcast STB 6412)Be prepared to supply the model numbers when you set it up. So for the Study setup the Harmony is a MCE remote because that is the receiver I have attached to the PC and it controls SageTV on a PC and a SHarp 15" LCD HDTV. One remote turns on the TV, sets it to AV1 and wakes the PC. Everything is defined by an Activity. This activity is labeled "Watch TV". The Living room Harmony is configured to be a HD200. It controls the HD200, the Panasonic plasma and the Sony receiver. Same "Watch TV" turns on the TV and sets the input to HDMI, powers on the HD200, powers on the Sony and sets the input to DVD/LVD so I get surround sound with the optical input.

You can have the Harmony be any remote you want by learning it any remote you have in hand or choosing it from their database by defining any device. I know some people using a USB-UIRT want their remote to use as many buttons as they can and may pick a VCR as the remote device simply because they know it uses all the hard buttons on the remote. Then they learn it to the USB-UIRT to control Sage. If the Harmony mimics a MCE it can produce two codes to each button push and you would just learn both pushes to a command. You will see both numbers in the command list. If you learn it a 3rd time it will ask do you want to unlearn the command from the duplicate and learn it to this command. It is fairly straight forward and easy.


webwalker 02-20-2009 09:26 AM

I would like to think that learning remotes are all cut from the same cloth. It appears that they are not. I've heard great things about the URC remotes, and picked up an R6 on Wednesday night. I was pleased with the programming process, but then I found that the R^ only learned one of the toggle codes and I couldn't figure out how to make it learn both.

The major thing that frustrates me is that my needs are NOT complex: TV on/off. Amp on/off/volume/mute. HD200 nav/transport/feature controls. Finis

God knows my silly old Tivo remote never gave me this much grief. On/Off/Volume/Mute. Not a lot to ask.

I am going to clear my HD200 tonight, clear the URC-R6 remote and try the programming again based on your comments and see if I can sort this out. My wife has pointed out (truthfully, but unkindly) that there are enough failed remotes in this house for every family member to have TWO personal remotes.


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