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-   -   It's time again, cutting the cord options? (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65390)

stanger89 02-12-2018 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHS (Post 614226)
I'm 50 miles and I still manage get 30+ channel with my ATSC Antenna

I always find these comments funny (no offense). Yeah, I get tens of channels over OTA, but that's like saying I get 100+ channels over cable, most are crap. All you get OTA is the 5-7 "major" networks, plus a few PBS channels. Everything else is just filler crap, just like with cable. For me there's not more than maybe 5 channels OTA that have anything on I'm remotely interested in.


Quote:

You all do know Steaming Live TV is not considered Cord Cutting as it is a subscription with live TV service including Sling TV, Philo, YouTube TV, PlayStation Vue, DirecTV NOW, Huluís Live TV beta, and Fubo TV.
By the way this maybe use to any what the diff https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

A real Cord Cutting will only use an Antenna and nothing more and there are min option hardware and software solution.
Semantics, and I get it, but I don't care about semantics, I think still, when most people talk about cutting the cord they mean getting rid of a traditional, physical-line based cable TV service.

My point was, my cable TV bill is ridiculous, the non-discount price is $103/mo, and that's just the expanded basic, no cablecard/cable box ("digital") channels. As far as providers go, mine is great, and I really like the service, almost 100 of those are HD, and all are clear QAM. But even so, $103/mo for maybe 5 channels, for a handful of shows just doesn't meet the cost/value bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWKerr (Post 614234)
To me YouTube TV is by far the best but it may lack some channels you want. I really like the unlimited DVR space since you don't have to manage you library. If you think you might watch it just record it.

I was all set to go for it, until I realized that they only had one of the channels I care about (NBCSN), and while its content is perhaps the hardest to replace, it's not the most important.

Quote:

DirecTV has the best channel selection and I have the original $35 price so I have kept it as a fill in and to see if the DVR option matures into something worthwhile. (Plus Free HBO for now) DirecTV Now DVR in the Beta really sucks and I have low expectations for it. What DirecTV Now does have is good VOD selections and a lot of login access to Network apps directly which has even more VOD access. For a lot of people DirecTV Now would be fine once they have the limited DVR working.
Thanks for the info, that's what I was wondering. I don't really care about "recording" something, so long as the shows I watch regularly, I don't have to sit in front of the TV and watch it when it airs. I mean this isn't the 80's after all.

Quote:

I am still recording OTA locals with EMBY and use PlayOn to record some shows to the server as well. But...I find I am using YouTube TV for everything at this point. I could drop DirecTV Now and would not miss it. But keep in mind I also have Hulu, Amazon and Netflix so shows I miss with YouTube TV will probably eventually show up on the other providers at some point.
I need to go through and look at the sources for stuff I watch, but DTV Now I think had every network I care about, other than OTA, but I've got an antenna, so that's not an issue.

Quote:

I like this site for Cord Cutting news. Here is a comparison grid of all the services with supported apps and channels:
https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...-january-2018/
Cool, I was looking for something like that. Wish it was interactive, like let you check off the channels you care about and it would show you which providers had it. But I guess excel can do that.

Based on that:
YoutubeTV is out, it's missing 5/8 networks
SlingTV is missing 3/8
Hulu's missing the same 3 as Sling
DTV Now and PSVue both have all of them

I tried PSVue a while ago, I agree, I didn't really like the interface. Seems like DTVN is the way to go for me, I'll have to see if they've still got the $100/mo promo.

Thanks for the info about the VOD features, I was a little worried about that.

Out of curiosity, what's so bad about the DVR?


Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd (Post 614239)
Anyway, I am unsure what "DVR" means exactly.

Technically what I mean is the ability to record ("save") shows to watch at a time other than when they air. But really it's just the last part that I care about. I never watch anything when it's on, so it's very important for me to be able to still watch stuff when I want to. So a "DVR" or good VOD system/selection are equally acceptable to me.

stanger89 02-12-2018 04:37 PM

So a little further evaluation, just by specs, DTV Now is missing one nice-to-have channel in their $35 package, but PS Vue has it in their base $40 package.

PS Vue interface wasn't awesome, but it was usable.

Oh, regarding my comparison site wish, I found this, it's quite slick:
https://www.suppose.tv/tv

Even provides combo suggestions. For example it's suggesting I go for Sling Blue + Philo (hadn't heard about it til today)

reggie14 02-13-2018 09:29 PM

There's a rumor (based on a now-pulled buzzfeed article) on the YouTubeTV subreddit that Turner channels are coming to YouTubeTV. Apparently new customers will pay $40, but existing customers will stick with $35.

That's promising, although I think they'd still need Scripps before I'd be allowed to seriously consider dropping cable TV.

RonBoyd 02-13-2018 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie14 (Post 614336)
There's a rumor (based on a now-pulled buzzfeed article) on the YouTubeTV subreddit that Turner channels are coming to YouTubeTV. Apparently new customers will pay $40, but existing customers will stick with $35.

That's promising, although I think they'd still need Scripps before I'd be allowed to seriously consider dropping cable TV.

Hardly compares to Sling or DirecTV Now. (And if you are an AT&T customer, it is $25 off of the DTVN pricing)

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

stanger89 02-14-2018 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd (Post 614337)
Hardly compares to Sling or DirecTV Now. (And if you are an AT&T customer, it is $25 off of the DTVN pricing)

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

By quantity maybe, but a few of those Turner networks are the ones that were preventing me from considering YTTV. If they add them, combined with the "good" DVR, that's probably my answer. Though I guess they're still missing the discovery Networks.

I really want to try DTVN, but the DVR and VOD give me pause. Same with PSVue.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89 (Post 614338)
By quantity maybe, but a few of those Turner networks are the ones that were preventing me from considering YTTV. If they add them, combined with the "good" DVR, that's probably my answer.

I wonder if this includes the On-Demand versions (TNTDrama, for instance). I suspect it means Live broadcasts only.

reggie14 02-14-2018 10:25 AM

Like stanger, the DVR situation really make everything except YoutubeTV a non-starter for me. I can handle a 9 month recording lifetime, but everything else has dealbreakers.

Vue has a 500 recording limit, and they only last 28 days

Sling only has 50 (or 100) hours of recordings, and recordings don't work on several channels.

Hulu only has 50 (or 200) hours of recordings.

DirecTV Now has no DVR option right now. While its coming, I doubt it will be very good.

The on-demand features of all these seem sort of wonky. On-demand catalogs are pretty spotty. That makes them far less desirable as an alternative to DVR.

For instance, YoutubeTV doesn't look like it has access to TNT VOD. That sucks, but if you actually look at TNT's VOD catalog on TNTDrama.com, it's super spotty. Even TNT's own shows are spotty. At least for YoutubeTV you can set it to "record" everything and over time you'll build up a decent catalog on your own.

YoutubeTV+Philo looks like a promising combination at this point, although I hate to have two different services. I'd pay the $16/month for the Philo channels- I'd just want them in the YoutubeTV interface.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie14 (Post 614344)
Like stanger, the DVR situation really make everything except YoutubeTV a non-starter for me.

Again, I mention PlayOn (https://www.playon.tv/)

reggie14 02-14-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd (Post 614345)
Again, I mention PlayOn (https://www.playon.tv/)

I've tried PlayOn off-and-on since 2009. While it's certainly improved, I've always been unhappy with the experience overall.

Maybe I should try it again- the last time I tried it at all was mid-2017. But, I just had twins a few months ago. I don't have the energy to setup and maintain things like this anymore. I'm using Sage out of inertia at this point.

My Sage server crashed pretty hard recently, and I had to spent many hours fixing it (I still don't know what went wrong, but I ultimately had to restore a backup from over a month ago to get the machine to boot again). I almost tossed aside Sage when that happened. Honestly, if I knew it was going to take as long as it did to get it working, I probably would have. And if it happens again, I almost certainly will- particularly now that YoutubeTV has Turner channels.

Something that just works- and that works well remotely and on mobile devices- sounds very compelling at this point in my life. I'll trade away a lot for that, but I'm not dropping down to ~100 hours of recordings. And I'm not going to replace Sage with something equally difficult to manage.

stanger89 02-14-2018 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd (Post 614345)
Again, I mention PlayOn (https://www.playon.tv/)

So how does it actually work with DTVNow in practice? What if two shows air at the same time?

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 12:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89 (Post 614347)
So how does it actually work with DTVNow in practice? What if two shows air at the same time?

It took me awhile to find the URL for the User's Guide: https://www.playon.tv/user-guide/device-guides

Anyway, If I understand your question, you would record like back in the old VCR days. You would start and stop the recording manually. I have never done that. I simply browse to the program and press the "Record" button. See Image:

Attachment 16847

(The green dots designate that I already recorded those episodes. On those the "Record" button would show "Restart.")

Another way is to "subscribe" to the program and then the recording starts automatically when released by the Network.

That is also how it works with every other (than DTVN) Streaming Service (Free or otherwise) that you are subscribed to.

In addition, there is a PlayOn Extension for Chrome and IE that is essentially the same process (except, of course, you can't schedule the recording). This Extension records any Video that is accessed by the browser.

It is, of course, a little more complex than that but it is very user friendly and, TBH, a lot easier to work with than STV... well, a shorter learning curve.

Anyway, read over the manual.

stanger89 02-14-2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd (Post 614349)
It took me awhile to find the URL for the User's Guide: https://www.playon.tv/user-guide/device-guides

Anyway, If I understand your question, you would record like back in the old VCR days.

No, that's not really what I'm asking, I was asking how it works day to day. For example from what I gather, (I found the subscribe thing), I would go through, for all my favorites, I'd go through the Playon GUI and "subscribe" to all of them. Then Playon will dutifly record them.

However, there are questions, like:
DTVNow only shows things live as I understand it, so does Playon miss the first seconds/minutes of a program because it doesn't show up in the list until it airs, and Playon presumably polls (how often) for new things?

What happens if two shows air at the same time? Which one gets recorded? Do they both? Is it limited to the number of streams DTVN supports?

Is it common to miss the beginning/end of a show due to lack of padding?

samgreco 02-14-2018 01:16 PM

I used PlayOn for a long time and really liked it. But over the last year it seems, they have been having a lot of issues with various networks. Some, like TNT/TBS they have just dropped because they can't make them work any longer. It is to the point where I never use it anymore.

All of my subscriptions have failed to the point where there is nothing left for me to record. Couple that with it's basic shortcomings (no surround, etc.) and I just don't see any value in it anymore.

Now, I don't have any of the online services and access content using provider logins. So using it with DTVN might be good. But if they are just sending you to the networks VOD, I would think that the same networks that are failing directly though PlayOn will also fail on DTVN redirecting to where ever.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 01:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89 (Post 614350)
No, that's not really what I'm asking,

Okay, I think the problem here is the need to separate "Live" from "Video on Demand."

Recording a "Live" episode works exactly like the Ol' VCR method. See Image

Attachment 16848

(I don't know what the "Record All" means.)

This is Animal Planet's live stream and my choices are Play, Cast, or Record. However, I have to do it manually... the actions starts when I press one of the buttons. Note that it will record for 5 hours (can be adjusted).

Interesting... I started an Animal Planet recording and then started a program on A&E. The A&E recording was put in the "Queue." Meaning PlayOn is only recording one at a time. I stopped each recording after five minutes and it looks like each recording starts mid program.

In other words, I am unfamiliar with recording/watching live TV. Why don't you download the free trial PlayOn and use some non-subscription service (Like Crackle maybe -- I was able to open YouTube Olympic Coverage video without a subscription) and see if it is right for you... before committing to either PlayOn or DTVN.

Now, on the Video on Demand side. The scheduled recordings are dependent on the Network releasing the show -- depending on the Network, that is from 24 hours to three weeks. In that case, I described the process above.

In any event, I've done all the damage I can do.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samgreco (Post 614352)
I used PlayOn for a long time and really liked it. But over the last year it seems, they have been having a lot of issues with various networks. Some, like TNT/TBS they have just dropped because they can't make them work any longer. It is to the point where I never use it anymore.

All of my subscriptions have failed to the point where there is nothing left for me to record. Couple that with it's basic shortcomings (no surround, etc.) and I just don't see any value in it anymore.

Now, I don't have any of the online services and access content using provider logins. So using it with DTVN might be good. But if they are just sending you to the networks VOD, I would think that the same networks that are failing directly though PlayOn will also fail on DTVN redirecting to where ever.

Yeah, there is a problem with TNT/TBS as well as SyFy VOD. However, while I originally blamed PlayOn, I find that they are no longer available with any Streaming service... and believe me I've looked. For some reason those Networks, in the last month, have stopped allowing non-cable/satellite services access to VOD. Yes, I was very disappointed but no longer blame PlayOn.

As far as the Surround Sound is concerned, I hadn't noticed. I have a 7.1 system. PlayOn records to the Mp4 format and I simply play it through SageTV (HD300) without changes. I would be surprised if PlayOn manipulated the sound but am open to the theory... I just hadn't noticed.

samgreco 02-14-2018 02:17 PM

Surround does not work through a browser with any of these services. So PlayOn just passes it on. Your AVR is just giving you Dolby Pro Logic or equivalent.

As for the network problems, I am not blaming PlayOn. But it limits what PlayOn can do. So for me it's value is diminishing.

I can tell you that Sling, DTVN, YouTubeTV, Vue and Hulu Live all have TNT and TBS, etc. And they're on Sling's $20 tier.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samgreco (Post 614358)
Surround does not work through a browser with any of these services. So PlayOn just passes it on. Your AVR is just giving you Dolby Pro Logic or equivalent.

As for the network problems, I am not blaming PlayOn. But it limits what PlayOn can do. So for me it's value is diminishing.

I can tell you that Sling, DTVN, YouTubeTV, Vue and Hulu Live all have TNT and TBS, etc. And they're on Sling's $20 tier.

You may be right about the recordings that PlayOn does within a Browser... I haven't done that yet. Those recordings done entirely within PlayOn sure seem to me to be in some kind of "surround" sound. There are plenty of "sounds" that only come out of, for instance, a single rear speaker. Does Dolby Pro Logic do that?... I'm impressed.

Yes, all those services have access to some aspects of TNT, TBS and SyFy but not VOD. Try to access a full episode on TNTDrama without a cable/satellite subscription and you will see what I mean... go down the list of several hundred authorized "providers" and you will not find a single Streaming service.

panteragstk 02-14-2018 03:18 PM

Play-on has removed a lot of the channels I use. It really isn't useful for me now. I have to rely on the specific apps on my streaming devices now (not all are available).

I will say that it's sad to find that it's now easier to get TV through non-legal means than it is to get it through legal means (in terms of streaming/online only).

Sling TV looks like it has most/all of what I'd be looking for. OTA can give me the rest if I stop being lazy and put the antenna in the attic or on my roof.

RonBoyd 02-14-2018 03:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by panteragstk (Post 614362)
Play-on has removed a lot of the channels I use. It really isn't useful for me now. I have to rely on the specific apps on my streaming devices now (not all are available).

I wasn't keeping track of what was dropped by PlayOn but wish to sound more coherent when complaining to PlayOn Support. Help me identify all the channels that they no longer list. I remember only TNT/TBS/SyFy because I was directly affected but wish to be thorough. Please tell me what channels you are referring to. See current list image:

Attachment 16849

Quote:

Originally Posted by panteragstk (Post 614362)
Sling TV looks like it has most/all of what I'd be looking for. OTA can give me the rest if I stop being lazy and put the antenna in the attic or on my roof.

I see nothing I need that Sling has that DTVN doesn't. What are you referring to specifically? (Asking for the same above reason.)

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/phil...february-2018/

samgreco 02-14-2018 06:42 PM

For me, it's not that Sling has anything that DTVN doesn't. It's that it has everything that I want for $20/mo rather than $35 for DTVN.


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