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-   -   Best program to edit HD-PVR files? (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38811)

timg11 01-17-2009 11:34 AM

Best program to edit HD-PVR files?
 
What do people use for editing the H.264 TS files created by the HD-PVR? When I record a movie, I want to edit it before archiving.

I tried the TME "Create Disc" "Cutting Room" editor that was included. I am amazed at what a terrible editor this is! No control over timeline, no precise control over positioning other than clicking Up and Down arrows on minutes or seconds, no keyboard shortcuts for anything, and worst of all, no way to save the cut points while working on a file.

Using this program to edit video is like going back to editing software source code under DOS with EDLIN.

I tried removing commercials from one fairly long movie. Guess what - after spending about an hour marking the in and out points in the most tedious, annoying program ever devised, it crashed and everything I did was lost.

What are people using to edit these files? I own MPEG Video Wizard, but it doesn't support H.264, so I guess I'll have to buy something else.


PS - to add insult to injury, Arcsoft also installs adware on your computer, which pops up spam messages from your system tray. It is called "Arcsoft Connect". I found instructions for disabling it here

Swagger200 01-19-2009 08:54 AM

I use H264TS_Cutter - google it

davephan 01-19-2009 03:08 PM

Can you edit down to the frame with H264TS_Cutter? I tried a couple editing programs for H.264, but they could not edit down to the frame like you can with VideoReDo does for MPEG2 files.

Dave

willhorner 01-19-2009 03:24 PM

There realy is no solution that dosent include recompressing the stream if you want frame accuracy. That being said...if you dont mind recompressing, Megui is what I use, I take the .ts that sage tv generates, run tsmuxer and output a mt2s, then open it in megui, make my cuts and let it go. output is beautiful.

Im with you on the whole "there need to be a frame accurate cutter that dosent recompress the entire stream" bandwagon. but so is every other mildy advanced user of this product.

timg11 09-01-2009 12:03 PM

Bringing this thread to the top again: I'm still looking for an easy and effective solution for editing the H.264 TS files from the HD-PVR.

I tried H.264 TS Cutter, but it gives cryptic errors ("It seems in this TS is no IDR-Frame. It is necessary to set CutIn to I-Frame and Out Frame to B or even All-Frame", and "Could not init. video playback DS-Error. Attempted to read or write protected memory). It hangs before it finishes opening a file from the HD-PVR.

VideoRedo's H.264 capability is still in "alpha", so it could be a long time before availability.

Converting between formats by uncompressing and re-compressing would introduce quality loss, which is not desirable since the purpose of the editing is for archiving.

Are there any commercial programs that have been introduced that can edit the HD-PVR's H.264 TS files?

Rico66 09-01-2009 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg11 (Post 377653)
Bringing this thread to the top again: I'm still looking for an easy and effective solution for editing the H.264 TS files from the HD-PVR.

I tried H.264 TS Cutter, but it gives cryptic errors ("It seems in this TS is no IDR-Frame. It is necessary to set CutIn to I-Frame and Out Frame to B or even All-Frame", and "Could not init. video playback DS-Error. Attempted to read or write protected memory). It hangs before it finishes opening a file from the HD-PVR.

VideoRedo's H.264 capability is still in "alpha", so it could be a long time before availability.

Converting between formats by uncompressing and re-compressing would introduce quality loss, which is not desirable since the purpose of the editing is for archiving.

Are there any commercial programs that have been introduced that can edit the HD-PVR's H.264 TS files?

For H264TS_Cutter you'll probably want to set cut-in and cut-out to all frames. Otherwise I'd end up with lip sync errors. While the result is not 100% frame accurate, it's not that far off. Works quite well for me, and it's free,

The decoders in use also play a role. I typically switch to ffdshow (for audio and video) for this purpose, since I got problems/crashes when using e.g. the MPC video decoder.

gplasky 09-01-2009 06:08 PM

Just found this:

MovieShop Cut, convert. Frame accurate. Cuts without re-encoding. Or transcode to a whole new format. I tried the trial and it appears to work well.

Gerry

HelenWeathers 09-01-2009 09:32 PM

Gerry, I tried this as well. Lots of things to like (the jog, fast cut etc), but the fastcut ts files that started out in AC3 6ch ended up Stereo in the output file.

Did you notice this as well? Maybe it's just that way in the trial version.

The Video did look good but the stereo audio is a no go for me.

EDIT: I sent an email to the company re the stereo output - will post response when it comes.

EDIT AGAIN: My bad. I had my cutin point set at an area where there was no audio present so it was being reported as stereo. Tried again with a different start point and I am indeed getting 6 channel AC3.

gplasky 09-02-2009 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 377769)
Gerry, I tried this as well. Lots of things to like (the jog, fast cut etc), but the fastcut ts files that started out in AC3 6ch ended up Stereo in the output file.

Did you notice this as well? Maybe it's just that way in the trial version.

The Video did look good but the stereo audio is a no go for me.

EDIT: I sent an email to the company re the stereo output - will post response when it comes.

EDIT AGAIN: My bad. I had my cutin point set at an area where there was no audio present so it was being reported as stereo. Tried again with a different start point and I am indeed getting 6 channel AC3.

Excellent. I was going to say I didn't see the issue. So far this program is pretty impressive seeing it does what most others can't with the h.264 files. I need to work with it more and understand what the full version buys you. I have VideoRedo and I am just waiting for them to make more progress on their bets.

Gerry

timg11 09-02-2009 08:50 AM

Gerry - thanks for discovering Movieshop. There is so much "noise" when searching on the terms "H.264" and "editor" that I didn't see it if it was shown in Google.

I'm not clear about the differences between Movieshop Browser, Movieshop Framer, and Movieshop Suite. Which are you using?

gplasky 09-02-2009 09:07 AM

It's MovieShop Framer. And Suite is just Framer and Browser.

Gerry

wayner 09-02-2009 10:27 AM

It looks like VRD does have a limited Beta for H.264 editing. According to their forum paid users of VRD can get in on it. It would be nice to be able to just buy an upgrade to VRD rather than a whole new product. See http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/sh...t=7950&page=18

timg11 09-02-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 377837)
It looks like VRD does have a limited Beta for H.264 editing. According to their forum paid users of VRD can get in on it. It would be nice to be able to just buy an upgrade to VRD rather than a whole new product. See http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/sh...t=7950&page=18

Wayner - I asked about this on the VideoRedo forum. Since I already own a good MPEG 2 editor (Womble), I don't need the existing VRD. I said I would be willing to purchase VRD just to test the beta H.264 features, providing they were past the "threshold" when new purchasers are entitled to receive the new version. Apparently they are planning a price increase, so they won't offer any free upgrade, but it is not clear whether the price for the new version after release would exceed the price of the existing version plus the upgrade fee. Sometimes the upgrade is 50% of the new program price.

I'll be testing the MovieShop program when I get a chance - it sounds promising from what Gerry and Helen said.

wayner 09-02-2009 11:31 AM

@timg11 - that makes sense since you don't own a VRD license. Many of us bought one years ago since it was one of the best programs for editing MPEG-2 files, even if they were in DVR-MS format from MCE. Several folks also use VRD to automatically cut commercials by passing it a cuts file from Comskip (or ShowAnalyzer) to reduce filesize.

sic0048 09-02-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gplasky (Post 377726)
Just found this:

MovieShop Cut, convert. Frame accurate. Cuts without re-encoding. Or transcode to a whole new format. I tried the trial and it appears to work well.

Gerry

Any idea on how long the trial lasts or if it is missing some capabilities? Clicking on the Trial button simply takes me to the download. I would like to know what the trial is before I download it.

PS - I'd also feel better about the company if they didn't spell "guarantee" wrong (several different ways actually). The only place I saw guaranteed spelled correctly was in the "Your shopping safety is guaranteed" which is probably a link from another provider).

HelenWeathers 09-02-2009 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg11 (Post 377845)
I'll be testing the MovieShop program when I get a chance - it sounds promising from what Gerry and Helen said.

Well, there are some warts with large (movie length) ts files.

The software doesn't seem to have an accurate grip on where it's at in the file's timeline during output processing. Sometimes it is 100% complete but thinks it's only 85% complete so it hangs. I used task manager to close it and played back the resulting file. The file was fine - but the software needs some work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sic0048 (Post 377850)
Any idea on how long the trial lasts or if it is missing some capabilities?

Not a clue on either.

timg11 09-02-2009 01:14 PM

I'm checking out the MovieShop Framer trial. It is not easy to figure out, even with the help file...

I can open the TS file and see it in the preview. I can set the Start Point at the start of first program segment, and the End Point at the end of the first program segment. It is not clear how to add the start/end points to the batch list, so I tried the "Add List" button below the batch list. It opens a dialog that sets the conversion options for various hardware devices (iPhone, PS3, Archos, etc). Is there any option for not changing the format?
I don't want it to re-encode, just edit. Is that possible with this software?

After selecting Output MPEG TS, Video AVC/H.264, and Audio AC3, I see there is now a line in the Batch List, so I must be on the right track. I wasn't sure about the audio setting. The Audio was reported as A52 in MovieShop, although I have Sage configured to record as AC-3.

Assuming I need to add a line for each program segment in the Batch List, I adjust the timeline to the next Start point (after the first commercial break), Clicking the "New Start Point" button doesn't work. The start point remains at 0. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Tim

timg11 09-02-2009 01:37 PM

I noticed NewEgg is having a promotion of SONY Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9 Pro Pack for $60 after rebate and coupon code.

Does anybody know if this supports the H.264 flavor used by the HD-PVR?

HelenWeathers 09-02-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg11 (Post 377865)
After selecting Output MPEG TS, Video AVC/H.264, and Audio AC3, I see there is now a line in the Batch List, so I must be on the right track. I wasn't sure about the audio setting. The Audio was reported as A52 in MovieShop, although I have Sage configured to record as AC-3.

For output select FastCut PS/TS (ignore the video and audio buttons) and then click convert to add to the list. A52 is fine for AC3.

Quote:

Assuming I need to add a line for each program segment in the Batch List, I adjust the timeline to the next Start point (after the first commercial break), Clicking the "New Start Point" button doesn't work. The start point remains at 0. What am I missing?
After you hit convert and add segment to the list the output format choice window should disappear and the main window will become active again for your next segment start/end marking.

Once all segments are converted and in your list click the rectangular "Record List" button. Good luck. I've had issues with hangups while processing the list.

HelenWeathers 09-02-2009 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg11 (Post 377866)
I noticed NewEgg is having a promotion of SONY Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9 Pro Pack for $60 after rebate and coupon code.

Does anybody know if this supports the H.264 flavor used by the HD-PVR?

From Sony's website:
Quote:

Supported Formats
Import: AIFF, ATRAC, AVI, BMP, CDA, FLAC, GIF, JPG, LPEC, MMV, MP3, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, Sony M2TS, OGG, PCA, PNG, PSD, QuickTime®, SFA, SWF, TGA, TIF, W64, WAV, WMA, WMV
Export: AC-3, ATRAC, AVI, FLAC, MP3, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, OGG, PCA, QuickTime, RealAudio®, RealVideo®, W64, WAV, WMA, WMV
It says Sony m2ts instead of m2ts. ts can be converted to m2ts with tsMuxer.

There is a free trial download from:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...diope/features

timg11 09-03-2009 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 377871)
After you hit convert and add segment to the list the output format choice window should disappear and the main window will become active again for your next segment start/end marking.

I get to the point where the main window is active after adding the segment. I can locate the start of the next segment with the sliders and jog wheel, but the "New Start Point" button does nothing. (It highlights when clicking, but otherwise nothing happens). The start point value above the button remains at zero, and the blue bar above the main slider remains starting at the far left.

timg11 09-07-2009 11:54 AM

I tried Sony's Vegas Movie Studio Platinum.

I first used the TSMuxer program to convert a HD-PVR TS file to M2TS.
Then I opened it in Vegas. It opened in the media preview and a frame showed correctly. Then I selected "Open In Trimmer".
At that point Vegas crashed (VegasMovieStudioPE90.exe has encountered a problem....).

I also tried dragging the video to the timeline rather than using the trimmer. Also a crash.

I discovered that Vegas can open the TS files directly without having to convert to M2TS first. It still crashes, though.



Returning to the previous discussion of MovieShop, I have been trying various files and even installed MovieShop Suite to another computer. It behaves differently - instead of ignoring the new start point, it simply crashes when opening the file. I tried their SmartCutter and got the same crash.

HelenWeathers 09-07-2009 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg11 (Post 378769)
Returning to the previous discussion of MovieShop, I have been trying various files and even installed MovieShop Suite to another computer. It behaves differently - instead of ignoring the new start point, it simply crashes when opening the file. I tried their SmartCutter and got the same crash.

I didn't have any of the problems you mention. Just what I mentioned before. I have given up on MovieShop for the time being - it just doesn't seem polished. I'll try it again in a few months - or (continue to) wait for VideoReDo.

davephan 09-07-2009 04:37 PM

Corel has a product called Video Studio Pro X2. They have a 40% off sale on it till 11:59 PM tonight (I don't know which time zone they are talking about). The program is normally $100, sale price $60. I don't think I will have time to demo it before then. They have a 30-Day money-back guarantee.

Here's a link to the software:

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satelli...1#tabview=tab2


Dave

ghostlobster 09-07-2009 04:55 PM

I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned Andy VT's (babgvant) DVRMSToolbox. The new version comes with a great tool called DTBVideoEditor. Basically, if you have either Show Analyzer or Comskip data for a program, it utilizes that data automagically, cuts the commercials from a .ts file and outputs a sweet completed .mkv file in the format of your choice. I've used it for several movies and it's great!
Check it out at www.babgvant.com

toricred 09-07-2009 05:41 PM

The thing I'm looking for is something like QuickStream Fix from VideoRedo. I know the new TV Suite will do it, but I'm getting impatient. Is there anything out there right now that would work?

razrsharpe 09-07-2009 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlobster (Post 378817)
I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned Andy VT's (babgvant) DVRMSToolbox. The new version comes with a great tool called DTBVideoEditor. Basically, if you have either Show Analyzer or Comskip data for a program, it utilizes that data automagically, cuts the commercials from a .ts file and outputs a sweet completed .mkv file in the format of your choice. I've used it for several movies and it's great!
Check it out at www.babgvant.com

you know i tried it out about a month ago... but my brain must have been misfiring that night because i couldnt seem to figure out how to get it to do what i want (output a 720p 5.1 ac3 mkv). Is there an idiots guide to get it working somewhere? or just some key pointers? Thanks :)

davephan 09-08-2009 06:09 AM

I also tried installing the DVRMSToolbox, then opening the editor, and the program crashed before the editor would open. I uninstalled, rebooted, re-installed, then the program still crashed when attempting to open the editor. I tried installing the DVRMSToolbox on a computer that does not have SageTV installed, so maybe there is a prerequiste program required.

I also tried the Video Studio Pro X2 trial. I did not find an easy way to open a video file or a way to save the edited video as a file. There options to save the output as a DVD and other formats.

I also tried Sony's Vegas Movie Studio Platinum briefly. The program crashed. I am also not very comfortable using Sony software given the history of Sony putting spyware on their products in the past - I don't know if Sony can be trusted.

I then recovered the computer to the image I took just before installing the programs. I'm ready to test more H.264 editors while waiting for VideoReDo to support the format.


Dave

gplasky 09-08-2009 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toricred (Post 378824)
The thing I'm looking for is something like QuickStream Fix from VideoRedo. I know the new TV Suite will do it, but I'm getting impatient. Is there anything out there right now that would work?

Try TS Doctor. Google it.

Gerry

gplasky 09-08-2009 07:41 AM

You could try TMPGEnc 4.0 Express.

Quote:

Convert Almost Any Video File!
TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress excels at converting video from one format to another. Got a Media Center recording that you'd like to convert to DivX? Or maybe you have a DivX file you'd like to convert to DVD-compliant MPEG? TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress can do it all, and you'll have complete control over the output settings. You can even make your own custom output settings!

Edit Your Video
TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress includes plenty of tools to enhance your video. Use the cut-editor to cut out unwanted scenes. Add filters to correct color, crop the picture, resize, sharpen, deinterlace, reduce noise, and more!

NVIDIA CUDA™NVIDIA CUDA Support!
If you have a NVIDIA CUDA™ compatible graphics card, you can unleash the power of the GPU's multiple cores to crush the processing time for decoding and applying video filters! (Speed increases are dependent on your hardware environment and are not guaranteed.)

AVCHD input support!Convert Your AVCHD Footage!
The popular AVCHD video format is now officially supported as an input source! Easily take your AVCHD footage and convert it to other video formats such as DVD-Video!

Blu-ray Disc Encoding!
We've added a new output template for the Blu-ray Disc format! Convert your video into BDMV or BDAV compliant MPEG-2 video and maintain the quality of your high definition footage!

SpursEngine™ Support via Plug-In!
Unleash the power of Toshiba®'s SpursEngine for blazing fast hardware H.264 and MPEG-2 encoding! The recently announced SpursEngine Plug-In for TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress will allow you to harness the power of your SpursEngine device. Currently supported devices include Leadtek's WinFast PxVC1100 transcoding card, Canopus' FIRECODER Blu card, and select Toshiba Qosmio series laptop computers. Click here to learn more about the plug-in!

DivX® HD;DivX® HD 1080p Support!NEW!
With support for the latest DivX® encoder/decoder, you can output in full 1080p! Awesome DivX compression technology and full HD video! What more could you ask for?
Gerry

HelenWeathers 09-11-2009 05:23 PM

Here's another candidate:
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownloa...oad-69563.html

I've used this on a few movies to trim the unwanted stuff at the beginning and the end. It's fast and just cuts. No downresing. Appears to be freeware.

EDIT: timg11, I see this was already discussed. The HD PVR recordings I have don't contain IDR frames. You have to go into Option > Settings > Advanced and set your cut frames to I and B in the two boxes.

davephan 09-11-2009 09:18 PM

I tried 3 of the programs briefly.

The TMPGEnc 4.00 Express might be the best choice. The GUI is pretty crude compared to VideoReDo, and it would barely function on an old Athlon XP 1500 test computer with 1 gig RAM. Maybe it would function with a faster computer.

The AVS Video editor is a demo version. I could not get the editing function to work. The program looks like it is designed for creating videos from scratch with camera and a "storyboard" feature to assemble the videos.

Warning! The MovieShop appears to contain a Trojan virus as detected by McAfee. The Trojan named Artemis! 79B40ED2A56B.

I recovered the test computer with an image taken before testing the software.



Dave

davephan 09-11-2009 09:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)
TS Doctor looks pretty crude too, and did not work. The error was DirectX failed to render file. I installed DirectX, and still got the same error.

The default is not English, and when I switched to English there is still some foreign language in it.

Dave

gplasky 09-11-2009 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davephan (Post 379717)
TS Doctor looks pretty crude too, and did not work. The error was DirectX failed to render file. I installed DirectX, and still got the same error.

The default is not English, and when I switched to English there is still some foreign language in it.

Dave

You need to make sure you have Hali splitter installed when using TS Doctor.

Gerry

davephan 09-12-2009 05:56 AM

When I installed TS Doctor, it installed Hali splitter during the installation procedure without downloading Hali splitter separately.

The TMPGEnc 4.00 Express might be the best choice so far for editing files for the HD-PVR, but the GUI is pretty crude, and it could not even be tested with the Althlon XP-1500 with 1 gig of RAM because the GUI was barely usable, since it was so slow. The program might function decently with a faster computer. I plan to test it on my 3.0 gig dual-core 2 gig RAM SageTV computer when I can have a SageTV outage and after I take an image of the SageTV computer.

I already own TMPGEnc 1.5 and 1.6, which I purchased before VideoReDo. VidoeReDo standard and suite versions. VideoReDo does a much better job than TMPGEnc 1.5 and 1.6 and the GUI is engineered much better. Another downside to TMPGEnc products is it requires an Internet connection. The product periodically keeps itself functional by calling home under the cover of the software, to help reduce software piracy. If the company ever went out of business or defined the product as obsolete, the software might stop working. I haven't heard of TMPGEnc stopping any products from working, but the risk is there because of the dependency of a periodic Internet connection to re-activate the product under the covers. The TMPGEnc language in the GUI is in English, but is clearly not proofread by a native English speaker. Sometimes the wrong words are used or the wrong tense in various areas of the GUI, which a native English speaker would instantly recognize.

Adobe has a product called Adobe Premere Elements 7 that looks like it might work. The product used to be just for digital photos. It could organize, retouch, share, and do many things with photos. The product looks like it might be worth its $120 price for that feature. The version 7 product also edits and retouches consumer video cameras now, but does not say the formats it will edit. Nothing on the website shows screen shots or specific details, only non-technical descriptions of what the products do.

Adobe has some very expensive professional video editing products, such as Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium that cost $1699 which looks like it requires a 64-bit computer. However, the Adobe Premere Elements 7 might be enough to do simple HD-PVR video editing.

Adobe has educational prices if you qualify or figure out a way you can qualify for the discount.

Adobe Premere Elements 7 $120 educational price $69
http://tryit.adobe.com/us/premierelements/?sdid=EFOLZ

Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium $1699 educational price $349
http://www.adobe.com/products/creati...es/?features=0

Educational discounts
http://www.adobe.com/education/purch...n_pricing.html

I plan to test the Adobe Premere Elements 7 soon on the slower computer, and re-test the TMPGEnc 4.00 Express on the faster computer soon.


Dave

wayner 09-17-2009 08:29 AM

It seems like VideReDo is getting closer - this was posted in their forums yesterday by Dan Rosen from VRD:

We will be pre-releasing a discounted upgrade to registered VideoReDo users in October. We will then finish up the packaging and release the final version a month or so after that.

gplasky 09-17-2009 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 380978)
It seems like VideReDo is getting closer - this was posted in their forums yesterday by Dan Rosen from VRD:

We will be pre-releasing a discounted upgrade to registered VideoReDo users in October. We will then finish up the packaging and release the final version a month or so after that.

The beta is making good headway. ;)

Gerry

timg11 12-13-2009 03:03 PM

For those who are waiting, I just visited the VideoRedo forum, and it appears the H.264 capable version is not available yet.

davephan 12-13-2009 03:39 PM

I've been using the VideoReDo suite beta that does work with H.264 files. The editor is harder to use since the editing is not as smooth with the compressed videos, verses editing mpeg2 files.

Of all the H.264 editors I've tested so far, the VideoReDo suite beta is the best one so far.

Dave

wayner 12-13-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davephan (Post 397619)
I've been using the VideoReDo suite beta that does work with H.264 files. The editor is harder to use since the editing is not as smooth with the compressed videos, verses editing mpeg2 files.

I am not sure what you mean by this as I am pretty sure that MPEG-2 files are compressed as well.


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