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-   -   HD200 and Blu-Ray playback? (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39903)

Deuce24 02-24-2009 06:02 PM

HD200 and Blu-Ray playback?
 
Hey all, my intention is to run a Windows Home Server machine with an internal SATA Blu-ray player connected directly to the HD200. If I just share the Blu-ray drive over the network is the HD200 capable of just using it to stream/playback without me actually copying/converting the file to the hard drive first? This would be ideal just to pop in a disc and watch it without having to convert it all.

Also is this possible for standard DVD playback as well, sharing the drive over the network for SD DVDs?

Thanks!

HawgGuy 02-24-2009 06:11 PM

If the media is not copy protected, you can browse to the DVD and play the VIDEO_TS folder or browse to the STREAM folder of a BR disc and play the largest *.m2ts file.

Deuce24 02-24-2009 06:29 PM

Thanks for the reply Hawg. I have never burned Blu-Ray media before, but I want to make backups of my collection to WHS and not have to deal with pulling them out, but still want the capability to use standard "insert disc, watch movie" functionality.

I have AnyDVD HD, which removes the encryption. Is the largest .m2ts file always the entire movie file?

Thanks. :)

toony 02-24-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawgGuy (Post 340758)
If the media is not copy protected, you can browse to the DVD and play the VIDEO_TS folder or browse to the STREAM folder of a BR disc and play the largest *.m2ts file.

I thought this only applies to DVD's not bluray, though you did say no copy protection so that may change things. It is my understanding there is no support for bluray at all... plus the bluray folders do not have video_ts folder the m2ts files are in the stream folder.

The only way to watch bluray is to backup and do ones magic with the m2ts file, copy that to the server and play away.

toony 02-24-2009 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce24 (Post 340759)
I have AnyDVD HD, which removes the encryption. Is the largest .m2ts file always the entire movie file?

Although usually the largest m2ts file is the entire movie, sometimes it's not. In the case of movies with extended play and theatrical release versions, also the odd movie, you will have to append the m2ts files together, you can do this in anydvd.

use a program like BDinfo, it will show you what m2ts files on a disc make up the main movie.

HelenWeathers 02-24-2009 10:14 PM

HawgGuy has this one absolutely correct. You set up the blu-ray drive on the Sage server as a shared drive, browse to the drive and to the subfolder containing the m2ts files, pick one and play.

For movies with seamless branching (multi m2ts files used to build the movie) you would have to play each seperately. Like if you were to go to the DVD video_ts folder and play each vob file seperately).

You need any dvd hd software loaded and resident. But no copying is required.

jkohn 02-24-2009 10:25 PM

But I'm guessing the HD200 cannot bitstream the high-res formats over HDMI, or can it? It would be a bummer to be stuck with compressed audio...

HelenWeathers 02-24-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkohn (Post 340802)
But I'm guessing the HD200 cannot bitstream the high-res formats over HDMI, or can it? It would be a bummer to be stuck with compressed audio...

The HD-200 seems to default to the first audio track it can understand. If there's an AC3 track that's what plays. DTS gets passed through though. As far as True HD and DTS HD (if they were the only audio streams) you would probably get no sound at all.

Hopefully that will change to at least pass thru for the HiDef audio streams, if it hasn't already.

Beefcake550 02-25-2009 08:03 AM

If the first audio track is truHD with a DD5.1 core, it will play the core. Likewise for DTS-MA. Unfortunately, an LPCM track gets you 2.0 stereo. All this is out the HDMI or SPDIF. If using stereo outs, I'm not sure what happens, but it ain't pretty....I think onyl DD5.1 core would work sicne the HD200 can decode that.

I ALWAYS take the HD audio track and create an AC3 5.1 track from it using eac3to. I make it the first audio track and the HD200 couldn't be happier. My PCH A-110 can bitstream the HD audio track, so I make that track 2 and life is good.

-Brian

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 08:29 AM

Thanks for posting this info, Beekcake550. I was unsure about the passthrough, as I don't have any of mine hooked up to an amp yet (TVs only).

EDIT: With DTS (any version) I get video but no audio from the stereo outs.

Clift 02-25-2009 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 340799)
HawgGuy has this one absolutely correct. You set up the blu-ray drive on the Sage server as a shared drive, browse to the drive and to the subfolder containing the m2ts files, pick one and play.

For movies with seamless branching (multi m2ts files used to build the movie) you would have to play each seperately. Like if you were to go to the DVD video_ts folder and play each vob file seperately).

You need any dvd hd software loaded and resident. But no copying is required.

Couldn't you just create a playlist for all those files?

Taddeusz 02-25-2009 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clift (Post 340897)
Couldn't you just create a playlist for all those files?

Or use eac3to to stitch them all back together for you.

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 12:35 PM

Or use TSMuxer to stich them all back together.

EDIT: OOps taddeusz: you beat me to it.

stanger89 02-25-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clift (Post 340897)
Couldn't you just create a playlist for all those files?

You could, but you have to figure out what they are. In the case of something like Hancock, it's easilly 10-20 ts files. And I doubt Sage plays a playlist as smoothly as you'd get if you used an external app to stitch them together.

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 01:41 PM

Blu-ray support is getting better and better:

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=39920

Thank you SageTV.

S_M_E 02-25-2009 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 340920)
Blu-ray support is getting better and better:

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=39920

Thank you SageTV.

I noticed that but I wonder why it's only supported in the extenders not the server, client or placeshifter?

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_M_E (Post 340932)
I noticed that but I wonder why it's only supported in the extenders not the server, client or placeshifter?

The HD-200 support gives me reason for optimism. At the very least, we now know that Blu-ray is being worked on actively.

evilpenguin 02-25-2009 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_M_E (Post 340932)
I noticed that but I wonder why it's only supported in the extenders not the server, client or placeshifter?

This is something that I was worried would start happening when first released the extender. From a development perspective its orders of magnitude easier for them to implement a new feature on an HDextender where they have complete control over the hardware/software vs. a user environment where they're at the mercy of wide variety of software/hardware configurations.

Hopefully (for other people, not me. I'm all about the extenders ;)), this isn't a move in the direction of creating features only supported by extenders but rather just them having finished the extender implementation before the other platforms and deciding to release it now rather than making people wait while they finish the mac/linux/windows work which I imagine is much more complex.

S_M_E 02-25-2009 02:47 PM

Oh, I'm also optimistic and ep's comment about controlling the HW/SW so it's easier to finish first makes sense too. I just figured that the extender is basically a placeshifter which is almost the same as the client so I figured they'd all be just as easy as the extender. The difference being that the server/client/placeshifter would require the right decoder(s)/renderer(s) in order to work since they don't have control over that. They may very well add support for other players in later betas. I still haven't taken the BR plunge but until they offer BDMV support for clients, I'll still have to rip them to something that is supported until they do. ;)

stanger89 02-25-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_M_E (Post 340932)
I noticed that but I wonder why it's only supported in the extenders not the server, client or placeshifter?

Probably because there's an utter lack of Directshow support for Blu-ray features on the PC (lets be clear that Placeshifter doesn't support DVDs either, AFAIK).

I don't know if Sage can snag libraries for Blu-ray play back from the Sigma dev kit for the SOC their using, or if it's just a matter that the extender's architecture is just easier. But on the PC, Sage would basically have to write a Directshow Blu-ray splitter/navigator.

cncb 02-25-2009 05:35 PM

How does one extract the "BDMV" folder? Is AnyDVD necessary or are there other options? It would be nice for the "managed copy" we heard about before to actually arrive so I don't have to feel "dirty" when ripping a disc that I own to my hard drive...

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncb (Post 340980)
How does one extract the "BDMV" folder? Is AnyDVD necessary or are there other options? It would be nice for the "managed copy" we heard about before to actually arrive so I don't have to feel "dirty" when ripping a disc that I own to my hard drive...

TSMuxer (with any dvd hd software loaded) lets you mux just the tracks you want into a BD folder structure.

S_M_E 02-25-2009 05:51 PM

How would one do it without renting anydvd hd? ;)

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_M_E (Post 340983)
How would one do it without renting anydvd hd? ;)

There is no way that I know of to do without it.

S_M_E 02-25-2009 06:00 PM

I know AACS has been defeated. Anydvd HD might be the easiest and the only commercial SW that does it but there are other ways. I'm just reluctant to go into any details although a proper yahoo seach would find what I found too.

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 06:05 PM

I just created a BDMV folder (TSMuxer) on my SageTV server for "A Bridge Too Far" and the HD-200 recognized it as a DVD and plays it just fine. Need a new icon for BDMVs to show difference from SD DVD if no cover art exists. I'm using the SageTV beta 6.5.11 on my Sage server & clients now. Nice job so far Sage.

EDIT: Cover art works if folder.jpg is in the BDMV folder.

EDIT 2: Loaded previously muxed The 6th Day.m2ts into TSMuxer, selected Blu-ray disc as the output, muxed to a folder named The 6th Day, saved cover art into the folder The 6th Day\BDMV as folder.mpg and voila - I have it as a movie in Media Center > Movies. Plays like a champ on the HD-200. On the clients I can just drill down to the streams folder and play the 00001.m2ts file. Took < 15 minutes to do the remux.

chrishallowell 02-25-2009 10:37 PM

Maybe I'm missing something here but what is the advantage to having it be in a bluray folder as opposed to a m2ts file?

Before:
eac3to to join/extract the streams(h264/AC3) and tsmuxer to mux them back to a m2ts file.

With latest beta releases (Firmware 20090225 0, V6.5.11):
eac3to to join/extract the streams(h264/AC3) and tsmuxer to mux them back to a BDMV bluray structure.

HelenWeathers 02-25-2009 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishallowell (Post 341044)
Maybe I'm missing something here but what is the advantage to having it be in a bluray folder as opposed to a m2ts file?

Not sure there will be an advantage for everyone. Just that SageTV is beginning to treat Blu-ray movies like Blu-ray movies: cover art, chapters etc. And you can now play the Blu-ray disc (unlocked) directly on the HD-200.

I was just testing the folder structure out to see with some of the movies I've already processed whether it would require starting over or not.

stanger89 02-26-2009 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishallowell (Post 341044)
Maybe I'm missing something here but what is the advantage to having it be in a bluray folder as opposed to a m2ts file?

Chapters, and I'm guessing it should make the remuxing unnecessary, I have yet to try it with some seamless branching movie though.

Fuzzy 02-27-2009 07:55 AM

Definitely looks like sage is getting closer... they keep this up and i'll have to drop the money on an HD200. problem now, is that my client plays Blu-Ray just fine (just have to switch to PowerDVD), and with full menus and all. Definitely want the extender for better R5000 Dish playback though... so frustrating that I can't really have both good blu-ray playback in sage, AND good R5000 support.

toony 02-27-2009 08:48 AM

Am I correct in what I read, with the new beta if we put the muxed files into a BDMV folder we will get chapter support, audio selection and can add folder art.

Or does it make sense just to throw the m2ts files as found on the disc into the BDMV folder, those we want to keep that is. Then again I don't need language and subtitles for languages I don't speak or read :)

HelenWeathers 02-27-2009 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toony (Post 341406)
Am I correct in what I read, with the new beta if we put the muxed files into a BDMV folder we will get chapter support, audio selection and can add folder art.

You are correct. The chapter support is limited at this time to jumping to next chapter (as far as I can tell).

This is a big step forward for those of us with Blu-ray drives, even if limited right now.

In TSMuxer just select Blu-ray instead of TS or m2ts for output.

Clift 02-27-2009 09:20 AM

I tried playing "Planet Earth" last night and SageTV did not correctly identify the main movie. This is understandable as Planet Earth has multiple episodes per disc. But it just played the static background image that you get in the disc navigator... I will try other discs when I get home. I already have myentire BD library archived to hard disc, but the option to play them through the disc would be great for the occasional rental or when I just purchase a movie and want to watch it right away without ripping.

toony 02-27-2009 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 341408)
You are correct. The chapter support is limited at this time to jumping to next chapter (as far as I can tell).

This is a big step forward for those of us with Blu-ray drives, even if limited right now.

In TSMuxer just select Blu-ray instead of TS or m2ts for output.

Sounds good, I will give that a try this weekend.

evilpenguin 02-27-2009 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clift (Post 341410)
I tried playing "Planet Earth" last night and SageTV did not correctly identify the main movie. This is understandable as Planet Earth has multiple episodes per disc.

Make sure you submit a bug report on that, I bet your right about multiple episodes that are about the same length being the issue.

cncb 02-27-2009 09:42 PM

I am considering getting a Blu-ray drive but don't want to spend even more on AnyDVD. Has anyone tried using DVDFab? It sounds like it will work but will this result in a folder structure that I need? Thanks.

Clift 02-28-2009 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilpenguin (Post 341485)
Make sure you submit a bug report on that, I bet your right about multiple episodes that are about the same length being the issue.

Yeah, I'll do that. I tried Pirates of the Caribbean 3 last night and it worked great. The option to switch the audio track is really great for me cause I can't always fire up the surround receiver, especially if the baby is sleeping.

appelm 02-28-2009 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers (Post 340799)
HawgGuy has this one absolutely correct. You set up the blu-ray drive on the Sage server as a shared drive, browse to the drive and to the subfolder containing the m2ts files, pick one and play.

For movies with seamless branching (multi m2ts files used to build the movie) you would have to play each seperately. Like if you were to go to the DVD video_ts folder and play each vob file seperately).

You need any dvd hd software loaded and resident. But no copying is required.

I have any DVD HD running and am able to rip a blu-ray DVD to my HD. But I can't browse the blu-ray drive. I get a message when I click on the drive letter that says the disk is unreadable or may not be compatible with windows. Is this normal? I also can't seem to get the drive to be imported by Sage even though I can get a regular DVD-rom drive to be imported. I've shared the drive.

I just got the BR drive so I'm just starting out with this but kind of confused. I only have one movie at the moment so I'll have to get some more to try those. I'm trying Madagascar 2 for now. I've imported the ripped folder structure but when I try to play it in Sage on my HD200 it just brings up the DVD navigation background movie which loops over and over (for 5 hours).. I can navigate to the biggest m2ts file and play that which works though.

I'm using the latest beta and firmware...

stanger89 02-28-2009 10:54 AM

Blu-ray uses UDF (2.5?) file system, Windows doesn't ship with a driver for that (at least not XP, not sure about Vista), so you need to install a driver to be able to access the drive directly.

HelenWeathers 02-28-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by appelm (Post 341718)
I have any DVD HD running and am able to rip a blu-ray DVD to my HD. But I can't browse the blu-ray drive. I get a message when I click on the drive letter that says the disk is unreadable or may not be compatible with windows. Is this normal? I also can't seem to get the drive to be imported by Sage even though I can get a regular DVD-rom drive to be imported. I've shared the drive. I just got the BR drive so I'm just starting out with this but kind of confused.

Are you running Vista or XP? My Movies server is Vista. Did you load the drivers that came with the BD drive so Windows knows it is BD capable?

Quote:

I only have one movie at the moment so I'll have to get some more to try those. I'm trying Madagascar 2 for now. I've imported the ripped folder structure but when I try to play it in Sage on my HD200 it just brings up the DVD navigation background movie which loops over and over (for 5 hours).. I can navigate to the biggest m2ts file and play that which works though.
The primary audio track can confuse playback if it's LPCM. Movies with seamless branching do confuse playback. I don't know if that's your issue, but you should try another disc.

The "disk is unreadable or may not be compatible with windows" message bothers me the most. When I go to start, my computer my BD Drive shows the movie title of the inserted disc and I can explore the disc and see the folders and files whether any dvd hd is loaded or not.

Did you install the BD playback software that came with the drive and does that work?

EDIT: stanger89 is right and I think if you install the player drivers/software for the BD the UDF 2.5 gets installed at the same time if it's not present already.


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